BusbysBabes (U9083)

I'd be concerned about lining up without our best defence against a South American team in South America, and for me that means Cole.

Re: your last post - please don't try to claim that you know what all Chelsea fans think. You don't.

Winston I wouldnt listen to Totally Charming & Wonderful (U6489). He's heavily intoxicated most of the time and probably hasnt got a clue who Ashley Cole even is.

Totally Charming & Wonderful (U6489)

Why would you do that? The goals are almost all penalties and free kicks, so that proves nothing.

Baines takes corners and free kicks, so you'd expect assists to be higher - but they're not much more than Cole at all.

Did Baines assist/score 12 set pieces last season, as that is the difference.

On average Baines assisted or score one in 3 games. Cole scored or assisted 1 in 12.

Even if a lot of them were set pieces (which, with corners he is likely to take for England) then I still believe his assist rate is far higher than Cole's.

Be that as it may, Ash has 1 goal in 4 seasons for club and no goals in over 100 caps for country. He doesn't score anything, free kicks, penalties or otherwise.

Mr C following me are you baby

Jay - The eyes are open, the mouth moves, but Mr Brain has long since departed. (U16498)

Use the stats how you wish.

As I said, in Premier League games over the past two years, Cole has contributed more assists in less games.

The stats won't give us a conclusive answer, but for me they pretty much destroy the suggestion that Cole offers nothing going forward, which is what we had been debating.

I commented on this 2 hours ago.

Yes but it was your second attempt to grind up on me

Not conclusive by any stretch, but even if you discount the assists & goals from penalties and free kicks (if anyone has those stats it'd be interesting), unless that number is greater than 12, Baines clearly offers more going forward. That's even basing it on them playing the same amount of games - if you extrapolate the information we have to make it an even number of appearances, and assume the 1 in 3 stat continues, that makes it 14-15 more goals created than Cole, which is a hell of a lot.

Baines takes corners and free kicks, so you'd expect assists to be higher - but they're not much more than Cole at all.

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Why is this bad? Baines' expertise from set pieces is a strength for him and a strength England could utilise for chances and goals.

Cole offers very little going forward.

comment by The Blue Kenyan (U1641)
posted 31 seconds ago
Baines takes corners and free kicks, so you'd expect assists to be higher - but they're not much more than Cole at all.

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Why is this bad? Baines' expertise from set pieces is a strength for him and a strength England could utilise for chances and goals.
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From corners at least. I don't think he'll take free kicks for England.

Jay - The eyes are open, the mouth moves, but Mr Brain has long since departed. (U16498)

I never claimed Cole offered more going forward.

The debate was about whether Cole offers nothing or very little.

And sorry, but you have to admit that corners and free kicks will heavily influence those stats.

Why do you keep repeating stats from a timescale that suits you by the way? We could all do that, as I showed you.

Isn't it relevant that Cole plays more games against top opposition i.e. in Europe?

The Blue Kenyan (U1641)

It's not bad.

It's just irrelevant to the point I was debating.

comment by The Blue Kenyan (U1641)
posted 7 minutes ago
Cole offers very little going forward.
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The stats show you're wrong.

Winston why don't any of the Chelsea fans to comment on here agree with you?

13 goals or assists in 136 appearances over the last 3 seasons, compared to 30 in 115 for Baines...That is an absolutely huge difference. It does seem to show that he offers little going forward.

Totally Charming & Wonderful (U6489)

I'm not really bothered about a handful of Chelsea fans on a forum, to be honest.

I could ask why none of the match going Chelsea fans I have spoken with agree with you.

Jay - The eyes are open, the mouth moves, but Mr Brain has long since departed. (U16498)

Are you just ignoring the flaw in using the stat as you have on purpose, or are you being intentionally facetious?

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

If you can find a way to discount all of the goals and assists from free kicks alone, without going through 3 seasons worth of data, then I will use those statistics. Even if you half the amount (which I think is being generous) Baines still offers more, and Cole still offers less.

Which is why the whole discussion has arisen, because Cole offers less going forward, he shouldn't start games against weaker opposition...

Totally Charming & Wonderful (U6489)

No. But your opinion is no more or less valid than the Chelsea match going fans I know personally.

And they disagree with you.

So what conclusion am I supposed to draw?