comment by SouthLondonManc (U12028)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 23 seconds ago
SLM - so many of the clubs in that list have failed to match what their spending record suggests they should have finished? But I think it is a totally pointless way of trying to see how well a manager has done. If you really think that Moyes didn't do a good job at Everton, then for me that is shows a lack of insight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What did Moyes do at Everton though?
Kept them 8th.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Read SAF_The_Legend 20's post
comment by Heisenberg (U9091)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by SAF_The_Legend 20 times #SupportMoyes (previously 7_The_Arab) (U5768)
posted 47 seconds ago
Ohh right your just using money spent and ignoring money received?
Net spend is the only fair way to judge a manager, having to sell of your star players every year and getting a portion of their fee to reinvest in the side does not help a manager.
On net spend Everton are the lowest in the Premiership over the last 10 years. Going by meaningless figures which would mean United spent a decent bit of money when we swapped Ronaldo and Tevez for Owen and Valencia then yes he is the 8th highest spender but those figures are meaningless without taking into account money received.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Net spend skews figures.
They sold Rooney for £27m at the age of 18 after a full season.
Up until a few seasons ago Arsenal had a NEGATIVE net spend.
Net spend is a copout.
but I can they were a terrible team who would have been relegated pretty soon
-------------------------------------
Is this meant to be humorous?
You do know that their lowest position was 17th which they achieved under Moyes.
Want to look at punching above weight?
Mourinho with Porto
Pellegrini with Malaga and Villarreal
Benitez with Liverpool and Valencia
comment by Lesthered (U17527)
posted 1 minute ago
well januzaj has come in and made an instant impact, something kagawa failed to do, numerous times.
..........
You can't just use one example to back up your whole argument. Kagawa is in 45 mins then out the team for a couple of weeks. He does have the qualities just isn't been utilised properly IMO ie in his preferred position of CAM. he should have come on after around 60 mins yesterday in place of the god awful Rooney as he is far better at keeping the ball and that is what we needed. Possession
----------------------------------------------------------------------
fair enough but Kagawa, apart from scoring a hatrick against norwich has not done that well at all.
id rather he came on than welbeck who was poor yesterday when he came on.
i just cant see see where he fits in. he will never dislodge rooney and rvp, and certainly wont be disloding januzaj now that he has emerged. however when januzaj is not playng id rather kagawa comes to the left than welbeck.
hernandez should be playing more if RVP is playing poor
comment by Say My Name (U18558)
posted 1 minute ago
but I can they were a terrible team who would have been relegated pretty soon
-------------------------------------
Is this meant to be humorous?
You do know that their lowest position was 17th which they achieved under Moyes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
People talk out of their bottoms. Honestly.
SLM - what did you expect him to do, win the league??!!! He got a CL place, and got them above 8th on a number of occasions. Look at Sunderland, Villa and Newcastle, and how difficult it is for teams outside the big 6 to stay consistently there. Outside of the 'big 6' and no team has managed to remain as consistent as Everton, and the difference in net spend of these teams I'm sure is pretty minimal.
comment by SouthLondonManc (U12028)
posted 22 seconds ago
Want to look at punching above weight?
Mourinho with Porto
Pellegrini with Malaga and Villarreal
Benitez with Liverpool and Valencia
----------------------------------------------------------------------
mourinho fluked a champions league win (remember that dissalowed paul scholes goal?)
malaga didnt they spend a fortune with their arab owners? what have villareal won?
actually, what has pellegrini ever won of note in europe?
benitez - oh dear. even di matteo won the champions league? lets hire him? Benitez is a good manager though but manager of utd?
you are just ignoring valid arguments that challenge your nonsense and changing subject now.
comment by SouthLondonManc (U12028)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 23 seconds ago
SLM - so many of the clubs in that list have failed to match what their spending record suggests they should have finished? But I think it is a totally pointless way of trying to see how well a manager has done. If you really think that Moyes didn't do a good job at Everton, then for me that is shows a lack of insight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What did Moyes do at Everton though?
Kept them 8th.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No he dragged them from near the bottom to near the top during his reign. Whilst being outspent by at least 20 clubs and I am sure there are a few more outside of QPR in the championship that outspent him!
That's a pretty big achievement when you consider how influential money is in football. Look what happened in the opposite scenario when City had lots of resources! Or are Hughes and Mancini managerial geniuses???
Impending failure will be hard to stomach for Utd supporters who have only know success with Fergie.
Stings doesn't it. Everything is cyclical, it just happens to be your time.
Everton's wage bill is £63m, again ranking them around 7th-8th
comment by Celery (U17633)
posted 1 minute ago
Impending failure will be hard to stomach for Utd supporters who have only know success with Fergie.
Stings doesn't it. Everything is cyclical, it just happens to be your time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you wish
cream your panties all you want but even deep down you know this is a temporary and expected blip
i heard the same nonsense when cantona left, and ronaldo left etc etc..
When moyes took over Everton they were fighting relegation. When he left Everton they were a very good team consistently fighting to get into Europe.
If you think he didn't drastically improve Everyon SLM than you are even more of a clown than I think you are
comment by Heisenberg (U9091)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by SouthLondonManc (U12028)
posted 22 seconds ago
Want to look at punching above weight?
Mourinho with Porto
Pellegrini with Malaga and Villarreal
Benitez with Liverpool and Valencia
----------------------------------------------------------------------
mourinho fluked a champions league win (remember that dissalowed paul scholes goal?)
malagadidnt they spend a fortune with their arab owners? what have villareal won?
actually, what has pellegrini ever won of note in europe?
benitez - oh dear. even di matteo won the champions league? lets hire him? Benitez is a good manager though but manager of utd?
you are just ignoring valid arguments that challenge your nonsense and changing subject now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Malaga started selling their best players a couple of years ago when the owners couldn't break the Barca/Real dominance.
Villarreal KO'd Moyes out of the CL and reached the semis on a shoestring budget.
Porto won the CL without spending big
Valencia was the last team to break the Real/Barca dominance and won back to back La Liga titles on a shoestring.
Liverpool won the CL with 1 world class player and players like Djimi Traore.
Those are achievements that dwarfs Moyes.
Can someone maybe explain to me why Everton finished 16th the season before Moyes joined and 15th the season which they hired him part way through the season and then 6th in his fin two years.
Honestly if your a kid and clueless about football 10 years ago then don't try and make conclusions from it as you make yourself look like an idiot.
Also anyone who thinks net spend is a cop out doesn't understand football. Did United really improve their team by £20m when we swapped Valencia and Owen for Tevez and Ronaldo, come on now this is pretty simple stuff.
comment by SouthLondonManc (U12028)
posted 1 minute ago
Everton's wage bill is £63m, again ranking them around 7th-8th
----------------------------------------------------------------------
same old tired arguement. this seems to be the only thing you have in your locker to dismiss moyes
wage bill oh dear
next you will be saying the tea lady at everton earns more than any other team in the premier league so everton should be winning the title
Villarreal KO'd Moyes out of the CL and reached the semis on a shoestring budget.
............
Ahh superb stuff. What did Pellegrini get for that then? In fact what has Pellegrini won in Europe exactly?
I will always support the team. And I want moyes to do well. I thought his substitutions were negative, fearful and extremely costly yesterday but everybody makes mistakes. Should those mistakes be repeated, then it's a problem and anyone who cares about the club shouldn't be afraid to voice such concerns. Because as a United supporter, i want what is best for our club. And if the manager does repeat such errors of judgement as yesterday's, then it is only right to question whether he is suitable for the job he has taken on
Having said all that, he needs to be given time to learn from his mistakes and tangibly do something about it (i.e. not repeat them). I am certainly not calling for his head over what was one horrible day at the office.
comment by Lesthered (U17527)
posted 54 seconds ago
When moyes took over Everton they were fighting relegation. When he left Everton they were a very good team consistently fighting to get into Europe.
If you think he didn't drastically improve Everyon SLM than you are even more of a clown than I think you are
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Moyes almost got them relegated.
If you think that being a manager for 11 years of a medium sized club with a good budget and no interference from the owner and after that time mid table stability is all you have to show for it, you're not a great manager.
Moyes always did this at Everton and boy they finished strong. Have a feeling this is going to happen again, which will be fun. But it's not all doom and gloom, only 5 points behind city who play Chelsea next and united will beat stoke in Saturday. But realistically who thought united would win the title?? There's too much change and I think I'm in the minority but I sort of wanted moyes but his tatics have frustrated me thus far but I really want him to do well.....keep the faith lads
For a start off he never had a good budget. Secondly more often than not his team has been well in the top half of the table at times fighting for a CL spot and made Everton into one of the toughest places to go to in the league. A far cry from where they were when he took over.
Having a decent wage bill isn't going to help you too much when your outspent by 20 other teams in your country.
Also your praising Liverpool's acheievements but at that time they had been outspending us on wages and transfers since the premiership began but comparatively to us had very little to show for it.
Valencia spent a fair whack of money getting that first place and have been paying for it ever since. Ever wonder why they are selling off their best players year in year out.
Look at how Moyes left Everton in comparison.
I am starting to wonder if you understand much about football at all, the devil is in the details and you don't seem to know/understand any of the details!!!
Merrysupersteve - for me, a very sensible comment. We are all disappointed by both yesterday's result and where we currently are in the table, and Moyes and the team deserve criticism for that, but it's when people start questioning his appointment, his past record, will we make the CL etc, on the basis of yesterday's game and our current situation after 8 games that is crazy.
I dont know why you guys are all having a fit about drawing with Southampton. They are a very very good team a draw is by no means a bad result.
Malaga started selling their best players a couple of years ago when the owners couldn't break the Barca/Real dominance.
Villarreal KO'd Moyes out of the CL and reached the semis on a shoestring budget.
Porto won the CL without spending big
Valencia was the last team to break the Real/Barca dominance and won back to back La Liga titles on a shoestring.
Liverpool won the CL with 1 world class player and players like Djimi Traore.
Those are achievements that dwarfs Moyes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The fact malaga were even IN the champions league is because they still had talent around from the big spending days. they wouldnt even be in the champions league other wise
monaco also reached the final when porto won - it was the worst champions league in some time and even then porto fluked it with a lot of luck.
what exactly is your point? so one or two managers fluke a cup win which is extremely based on luck and that makes moyes a poor manager?
villareal knocked out everton in the pre-qualifying of the champions league. evertons first ever adventure in the champions league - the fact they were there was to their credit. they finished above champions league winners liverpool to qualify.
"Valencia was the last team to break the Real/Barca dominance and won back to back La Liga titles on a shoestring. "
yeah this happened like 10-12 years ago when barca was not the force they are now.
anything else? you havent answered what pellegrini has actually won?
champions league semi final? didnt leeds utd once make it there too?
your arguements are cowardly - using everything including the kitchen sink to have a go at moyes because a few mnagers fluked a few cup wins (and in pellegrini's case won nothing)
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posted on 20/10/13
comment by SouthLondonManc (U12028)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 23 seconds ago
SLM - so many of the clubs in that list have failed to match what their spending record suggests they should have finished? But I think it is a totally pointless way of trying to see how well a manager has done. If you really think that Moyes didn't do a good job at Everton, then for me that is shows a lack of insight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What did Moyes do at Everton though?
Kept them 8th.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Read SAF_The_Legend 20's post
posted on 20/10/13
comment by Heisenberg (U9091)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by SAF_The_Legend 20 times #SupportMoyes (previously 7_The_Arab) (U5768)
posted 47 seconds ago
Ohh right your just using money spent and ignoring money received?
Net spend is the only fair way to judge a manager, having to sell of your star players every year and getting a portion of their fee to reinvest in the side does not help a manager.
On net spend Everton are the lowest in the Premiership over the last 10 years. Going by meaningless figures which would mean United spent a decent bit of money when we swapped Ronaldo and Tevez for Owen and Valencia then yes he is the 8th highest spender but those figures are meaningless without taking into account money received.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Net spend skews figures.
They sold Rooney for £27m at the age of 18 after a full season.
Up until a few seasons ago Arsenal had a NEGATIVE net spend.
Net spend is a copout.
posted on 20/10/13
but I can they were a terrible team who would have been relegated pretty soon
-------------------------------------
Is this meant to be humorous?
You do know that their lowest position was 17th which they achieved under Moyes.
posted on 20/10/13
Want to look at punching above weight?
Mourinho with Porto
Pellegrini with Malaga and Villarreal
Benitez with Liverpool and Valencia
posted on 20/10/13
comment by Lesthered (U17527)
posted 1 minute ago
well januzaj has come in and made an instant impact, something kagawa failed to do, numerous times.
..........
You can't just use one example to back up your whole argument. Kagawa is in 45 mins then out the team for a couple of weeks. He does have the qualities just isn't been utilised properly IMO ie in his preferred position of CAM. he should have come on after around 60 mins yesterday in place of the god awful Rooney as he is far better at keeping the ball and that is what we needed. Possession
----------------------------------------------------------------------
fair enough but Kagawa, apart from scoring a hatrick against norwich has not done that well at all.
id rather he came on than welbeck who was poor yesterday when he came on.
i just cant see see where he fits in. he will never dislodge rooney and rvp, and certainly wont be disloding januzaj now that he has emerged. however when januzaj is not playng id rather kagawa comes to the left than welbeck.
hernandez should be playing more if RVP is playing poor
posted on 20/10/13
comment by Say My Name (U18558)
posted 1 minute ago
but I can they were a terrible team who would have been relegated pretty soon
-------------------------------------
Is this meant to be humorous?
You do know that their lowest position was 17th which they achieved under Moyes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
People talk out of their bottoms. Honestly.
posted on 20/10/13
SLM - what did you expect him to do, win the league??!!! He got a CL place, and got them above 8th on a number of occasions. Look at Sunderland, Villa and Newcastle, and how difficult it is for teams outside the big 6 to stay consistently there. Outside of the 'big 6' and no team has managed to remain as consistent as Everton, and the difference in net spend of these teams I'm sure is pretty minimal.
posted on 20/10/13
comment by SouthLondonManc (U12028)
posted 22 seconds ago
Want to look at punching above weight?
Mourinho with Porto
Pellegrini with Malaga and Villarreal
Benitez with Liverpool and Valencia
----------------------------------------------------------------------
mourinho fluked a champions league win (remember that dissalowed paul scholes goal?)
malaga didnt they spend a fortune with their arab owners? what have villareal won?
actually, what has pellegrini ever won of note in europe?
benitez - oh dear. even di matteo won the champions league? lets hire him? Benitez is a good manager though but manager of utd?
you are just ignoring valid arguments that challenge your nonsense and changing subject now.
posted on 20/10/13
comment by SouthLondonManc (U12028)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 23 seconds ago
SLM - so many of the clubs in that list have failed to match what their spending record suggests they should have finished? But I think it is a totally pointless way of trying to see how well a manager has done. If you really think that Moyes didn't do a good job at Everton, then for me that is shows a lack of insight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What did Moyes do at Everton though?
Kept them 8th.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No he dragged them from near the bottom to near the top during his reign. Whilst being outspent by at least 20 clubs and I am sure there are a few more outside of QPR in the championship that outspent him!
That's a pretty big achievement when you consider how influential money is in football. Look what happened in the opposite scenario when City had lots of resources! Or are Hughes and Mancini managerial geniuses???
posted on 20/10/13
Impending failure will be hard to stomach for Utd supporters who have only know success with Fergie.
Stings doesn't it. Everything is cyclical, it just happens to be your time.
posted on 20/10/13
Everton's wage bill is £63m, again ranking them around 7th-8th
posted on 20/10/13
comment by Celery (U17633)
posted 1 minute ago
Impending failure will be hard to stomach for Utd supporters who have only know success with Fergie.
Stings doesn't it. Everything is cyclical, it just happens to be your time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you wish
cream your panties all you want but even deep down you know this is a temporary and expected blip
i heard the same nonsense when cantona left, and ronaldo left etc etc..
posted on 20/10/13
When moyes took over Everton they were fighting relegation. When he left Everton they were a very good team consistently fighting to get into Europe.
If you think he didn't drastically improve Everyon SLM than you are even more of a clown than I think you are
posted on 20/10/13
comment by Heisenberg (U9091)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by SouthLondonManc (U12028)
posted 22 seconds ago
Want to look at punching above weight?
Mourinho with Porto
Pellegrini with Malaga and Villarreal
Benitez with Liverpool and Valencia
----------------------------------------------------------------------
mourinho fluked a champions league win (remember that dissalowed paul scholes goal?)
malagadidnt they spend a fortune with their arab owners? what have villareal won?
actually, what has pellegrini ever won of note in europe?
benitez - oh dear. even di matteo won the champions league? lets hire him? Benitez is a good manager though but manager of utd?
you are just ignoring valid arguments that challenge your nonsense and changing subject now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Malaga started selling their best players a couple of years ago when the owners couldn't break the Barca/Real dominance.
Villarreal KO'd Moyes out of the CL and reached the semis on a shoestring budget.
Porto won the CL without spending big
Valencia was the last team to break the Real/Barca dominance and won back to back La Liga titles on a shoestring.
Liverpool won the CL with 1 world class player and players like Djimi Traore.
Those are achievements that dwarfs Moyes.
posted on 20/10/13
Can someone maybe explain to me why Everton finished 16th the season before Moyes joined and 15th the season which they hired him part way through the season and then 6th in his fin two years.
Honestly if your a kid and clueless about football 10 years ago then don't try and make conclusions from it as you make yourself look like an idiot.
Also anyone who thinks net spend is a cop out doesn't understand football. Did United really improve their team by £20m when we swapped Valencia and Owen for Tevez and Ronaldo, come on now this is pretty simple stuff.
posted on 20/10/13
comment by SouthLondonManc (U12028)
posted 1 minute ago
Everton's wage bill is £63m, again ranking them around 7th-8th
----------------------------------------------------------------------
same old tired arguement. this seems to be the only thing you have in your locker to dismiss moyes
wage bill oh dear
next you will be saying the tea lady at everton earns more than any other team in the premier league so everton should be winning the title
posted on 20/10/13
Villarreal KO'd Moyes out of the CL and reached the semis on a shoestring budget.
............
Ahh superb stuff. What did Pellegrini get for that then? In fact what has Pellegrini won in Europe exactly?
posted on 20/10/13
I will always support the team. And I want moyes to do well. I thought his substitutions were negative, fearful and extremely costly yesterday but everybody makes mistakes. Should those mistakes be repeated, then it's a problem and anyone who cares about the club shouldn't be afraid to voice such concerns. Because as a United supporter, i want what is best for our club. And if the manager does repeat such errors of judgement as yesterday's, then it is only right to question whether he is suitable for the job he has taken on
Having said all that, he needs to be given time to learn from his mistakes and tangibly do something about it (i.e. not repeat them). I am certainly not calling for his head over what was one horrible day at the office.
posted on 20/10/13
comment by Lesthered (U17527)
posted 54 seconds ago
When moyes took over Everton they were fighting relegation. When he left Everton they were a very good team consistently fighting to get into Europe.
If you think he didn't drastically improve Everyon SLM than you are even more of a clown than I think you are
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Moyes almost got them relegated.
If you think that being a manager for 11 years of a medium sized club with a good budget and no interference from the owner and after that time mid table stability is all you have to show for it, you're not a great manager.
posted on 20/10/13
Moyes always did this at Everton and boy they finished strong. Have a feeling this is going to happen again, which will be fun. But it's not all doom and gloom, only 5 points behind city who play Chelsea next and united will beat stoke in Saturday. But realistically who thought united would win the title?? There's too much change and I think I'm in the minority but I sort of wanted moyes but his tatics have frustrated me thus far but I really want him to do well.....keep the faith lads
posted on 20/10/13
For a start off he never had a good budget. Secondly more often than not his team has been well in the top half of the table at times fighting for a CL spot and made Everton into one of the toughest places to go to in the league. A far cry from where they were when he took over.
posted on 20/10/13
Having a decent wage bill isn't going to help you too much when your outspent by 20 other teams in your country.
Also your praising Liverpool's acheievements but at that time they had been outspending us on wages and transfers since the premiership began but comparatively to us had very little to show for it.
Valencia spent a fair whack of money getting that first place and have been paying for it ever since. Ever wonder why they are selling off their best players year in year out.
Look at how Moyes left Everton in comparison.
I am starting to wonder if you understand much about football at all, the devil is in the details and you don't seem to know/understand any of the details!!!
posted on 20/10/13
Merrysupersteve - for me, a very sensible comment. We are all disappointed by both yesterday's result and where we currently are in the table, and Moyes and the team deserve criticism for that, but it's when people start questioning his appointment, his past record, will we make the CL etc, on the basis of yesterday's game and our current situation after 8 games that is crazy.
posted on 20/10/13
I dont know why you guys are all having a fit about drawing with Southampton. They are a very very good team a draw is by no means a bad result.
posted on 20/10/13
Malaga started selling their best players a couple of years ago when the owners couldn't break the Barca/Real dominance.
Villarreal KO'd Moyes out of the CL and reached the semis on a shoestring budget.
Porto won the CL without spending big
Valencia was the last team to break the Real/Barca dominance and won back to back La Liga titles on a shoestring.
Liverpool won the CL with 1 world class player and players like Djimi Traore.
Those are achievements that dwarfs Moyes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The fact malaga were even IN the champions league is because they still had talent around from the big spending days. they wouldnt even be in the champions league other wise
monaco also reached the final when porto won - it was the worst champions league in some time and even then porto fluked it with a lot of luck.
what exactly is your point? so one or two managers fluke a cup win which is extremely based on luck and that makes moyes a poor manager?
villareal knocked out everton in the pre-qualifying of the champions league. evertons first ever adventure in the champions league - the fact they were there was to their credit. they finished above champions league winners liverpool to qualify.
"Valencia was the last team to break the Real/Barca dominance and won back to back La Liga titles on a shoestring. "
yeah this happened like 10-12 years ago when barca was not the force they are now.
anything else? you havent answered what pellegrini has actually won?
champions league semi final? didnt leeds utd once make it there too?
your arguements are cowardly - using everything including the kitchen sink to have a go at moyes because a few mnagers fluked a few cup wins (and in pellegrini's case won nothing)
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