The owners don't dodge tax, the club itself does. The owner then benefits from that.

I'd be careful with the Mansour and torturing comments too.
.....................................................

And why do you think the club does that, was it a fan vote, did Manchester United command the owners to do this? Or is this the owners decision?

The link is direct enough to be safe from liable.

Would have thought Arsenal would be up there as well but wouldn't surprise me that ours are 2 of the biggest.

I know stokes was the most narrow "shawcross long throw"

Arsenal are ninth, Highbury when they had that was one of the smallest.

In the owners thing, I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying the owners didn't do it, I'm saying that the club itself is now registered to the caymans as well as the holding companies. Most just do the latter, as the owners could still dodge the tax. Instead, they have put that on the club itself.

I'm not putting the blame on anyone but the owners, I'm just saying the club itself is no longer headquartered in the UK.

RB&W (U2335)

I thought that was Ryan Giggs that said that. Anyway I was lucky as I had the Becjkham family right behind me

Fair enough, well off on that one then!

I'm just hoping it used to be much higher up and my information is just out of date.

Tbh I wouldn't judge either club on the actions of its owners and when we were talking about taxes I was happy to criticise what United do it's the people's club that started pushing it on the basis of our owners actions when yours are possibly more questionable.

If you want to talk about which team play more exciting football, then that is City if you want to talk about which team is currently better then that's City as well.

No neither would I on the owners thing

We might play more attractive football, you are just as effective though.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-carlo-ancelotti-reveals-10445468
Ancelotti might manage us after LVG goes me thinks.

Table doesn't lie.

That's right, I'm using your team being above mine to score points

Think Ancelotti will replace Mourinho though.

Saf
I'd be very interested to see some documented facts pertaining to sheikh mansours involvement in torture

He's a member of the family that rule the country and the country tortures people.

I am not claiming he does it personally anymore than I would claim Bush personally tortured Guantanamo inmates.

comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine(7) (U5768)
posted 5 seconds ago
He's a member of the family that rule the country and the country tortures people.

I am not claiming he does it personally anymore than I would claim Bush personally tortured Guantanamo inmates.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok just some documented facts/evidence that people have been tortured by his family/country will do then.
Sound bites like the above is clearly not what I'm after if it helps

Well TBH I wasn't sure which part you didn't believe, I thought they were all pretty well known, that is why I mentioned that of course he doesn't do it personally.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/uae

comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine(7) (U5768)
posted 37 seconds ago
Well TBH I wasn't sure which part you didn't believe, I thought they were all pretty well known, that is why I mentioned that of course he doesn't do it personally.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/uae
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I've read that before,hearsay at the very best
Evidence,actual evidence is what I've never seen
Amnesty international wouldn't go to court with any of that,there's not a shred of hard evidence and the wording is very deliberate if you read it carefully

How about the torture and executions of western aid worker and indigenous people in Arab countries and by Islamic fundamentalists.

The taliban were shooting kids in football stadiums not to long ago.

Yes I've read that before,hearsay at the very best
Evidence,actual evidence is what I've never seen
Amnesty international wouldn't go to court with any of that,there's not a shred of hard evidence and the wording is very deliberate if you read it carefully
...............................................

Yeah the bits about hanging people up by the wrists and ankles, beating them about the soles of the feet and use of electric shocks did seem pretty deliberate.

You are probably right though, what do Amnesty know about torture, probably just biased United fans right?

Also there is this....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8450722.stm

If it wasn't so sickening that BBC article would actually be funny, although if Amnesty isn't good enough for you maybe the BBC can't be trusted over an UAE court either...

How about the torture and executions of western aid worker and indigenous people in Arab countries and by Islamic fundamentalists.
......................................

Is very bad.

...................................
The taliban were shooting kids in football stadiums not to long ago.
.................................

Is also very bad.

Not quite sure where you are going with this, I am not a fan of the Taliban or IS or AQ for that matter...

It's a good job City have never had any questionable owners.

Glad you enjoyed the game hafi

Aren't those practises common in Turkish prisons?

Where I am going is where is the comments about torture from Muslim countries China African countries or is it just a thing to have a pop at city for sorry our owner.

I'm sure Russia also wouldn't be involved in any of that sort of thing.

Is this attempt to pick some country I feel defensive over and match up their techniques to the UAE's??

I'll save you naming hundreds of other countries and tell you I am happy to condemn any of them that use torture, even if they try to dress it up as enhanced interrogation.

So yes, if Turkey does all those things I condemn them just as much.

Though TBH given its attempts to get into the EU I imagine Turkey has a better HR record than UAE (although still shockingly bad by European standards)

Where I am going is where is the comments about torture from Muslim countries China African countries or is it just a thing to have a pop at city for sorry our owner.
..................................

Torture is one of the most evil things in the world, whether it is an African, a Chinese person or the owners of City ordering it.

................................
I'm sure Russia also wouldn't be involved in any of that sort of thing.
.............................

More than happy to criticise Russia for their HR record, they are backwards in that regard by European standards.

Not defensive over, just less vocal.

I could also ask you the same question back about tax avoidance, but the reason you are only mentioning United and not the hundreds and hundreds of other companies that dodge taxes is because we are often in discussions regarding City and United.

Why I am able to make these obvious assumptions but you make me explain them out every time is beyond me though, it just seems a crazy level of paranoia to assume people only have a problem with torture because of whose City owner is...

As if people couldn't have some kind of moral problem when one of the most evil things you can do....

when one should be with one