comment by Paulpowersleftfoot (U1037)
posted 4 minutes ago
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What you sticking your fecking thumb up for?
Our fixture congestion has feck all to do with Gollom and his diving crew
You concentrate on hoping stoke and West Brom slip up to keep you in 7th,ragman
comment by Earl Brutus (U1449)
posted 6 seconds ago
I thought he was a good signing at the time, especially the period before his injury, granted he seems to have regressed over the last couple of seasons but he wasn't always this bad.
We were never going to replace Ronaldo.
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Could of done a damm site better than the one trick pony we ended up with.
I think his best season he only gt like 15 assists. That's woeful for a winger who only we really crossed the ball to other players😃
Comparing Valencia to Ronaldo is pointless, because comparing 99% of players to Ronaldo is pointless.
Valencia is probably an example of a player whom we paid out a few million extra than ideal for, and he's turned out 'ok'. It's easy to forget how initially he was productive for us, people will say he's been found out, but I don't think his level is as bad as some people make out, and he's still a good squad member.
The problem is we have a lot of players of similar ilk, or even not quite as good, who can fall into the good sqaud member category without being brilliant, and for whom a fee of £15-£25 million was paid - e.g. Nani, Young, Anderson etc
Of our most recent signings, Jones could turn out to be great value, as could De Gea, for me the debate is still out on Smalling.
I would like to see us go out a buy some really top class central midfielders - of course there is risk with any transfer, but that will mean forking out more on individual players than what we have been doing recently.
I think a lot of people were banking on Nani turning into Ronaldo MK2. Unfortunately it just hasn't worked out.
The problem is that no-one was going to be Ronaldo MK2 - a few years down the line and he and Messi are still way ahead of everyone. Don't slate me for this, but I think Bale can battle for best of the rest, but being compared to the top 2 will always be tough for any player.
I know, but with him being a tricky Portugeuse winger from Sporting who copied some of Ronaldos traits plus he shows flashes of absolute genius sporadically...
We should of bought Ribery. Say what you want about him but he is twice as productive as Valencia was at his best and scores a fair amount as well.
As I said yesterday I think the Valencia signing was very much informed by the Berbatov signing, rightly or wrongly.
Fergie wanted to create a great striker partnership between Rooney and Berba, rather than playing a fluid system we'd seen previously, and with our financial restrictions and a change of style Valencia fit the mould for a return to a more traditional 442.
Personally I think these were mistakes, despite our success. Saying that I think people have short memories when it comes to Valencia.
Yes he has always been one dimensional, but for about three seasons he was one of our best players and one of the best players in the league, one dimensional or not.
People seem to forget how often he would destroy some of the best full backs in the league and create lots of chances for us - if Berba and Welbeck were better finishers he'd have more assist to show for it.
The Valencia we are seeing now is a far cry from the player that first came to United. A lot of revisionism goes on in regard to Tony.
Nobody on here was calling him average, useless or a donkey two years ago - the debate was who was better out of Nani and Tony, but both were seem as among top wingers in the league.
But now he's become useless people are acting like he was always an average player, which is completely disrespectful to a player that has been so important to our success the last few years.
He wasn't available then though was he?
From what I can remember Valencia has only had 2 good (not great) seasons with us, his debut season, then he had that ankle break against Rangers and his 3rd season. The other 2 and a half he's been awful.
But TBF I never expected too much from the guy, no one we brought in could have ever replaced Ronaldo so it was always unfair to do so. He's a 6 or 7 out of 10 performer, which isn't bad but for a club like United you really should expect more.
Darren - well said, and I still want Valencia to stay, because if nothing else, he is still a hard working player and an asset to the squad. I view Nani differently, he is a more luxury player, and unlike Valencia, I think Nani's good times are fairly heavily outweighed by his not so good ones. The problem for both of them is that we have had so many top quality widemen for us, and comparisons are inevitable, if impossible to live up to.
I still can't work out why we gave Nani a hefty contract extension, as for a while I don't think he showed enough to warrant one. I do believe that our widemen would benefit greatly from having creative quality central midfielders, and if we solve that problem then as a midfield 4 it would improve things greatly.
I am one of Valencia's biggest critic, but I find it quite amusing how people have forgotten how brilliantly he was for us. He had a brilliant season when he was brought for us.
Did Pep not once say that Valencia was the best winger in the world at one point?
I am one of Valencia's biggest critic, but I find it quite amusing how people have forgotten how brilliantly he was for us. He had a brilliant season when he was brought for us.
It wasn't brilliant by any stretch. He set up about 15 goals. That's bloody expected for any winger
In his second season after he came back from his injury he was very good and helped us win the title and get to the CL final.
First and 3rd seasons were very good as well. He was extremely consistent in what he did.
I've never been the biggest fan of Valencia, and always preferred Nani, but his consistency and ability to regularly create chances for us from the wing should not be overlooked, nor do I, and I think some people seem to overlook it because as he's become so poor it's easy to rewrite history and make out he wasn't that good in the first place.
Tony has only had one and a half bad seasons at United. Sadly they've come at a time where we've really needed him not to be. And it's not looking like he's going to get any better as he just seems to have lost the ability to cross.
t I can remember Valencia has only had 2 good (not great) seasons with us, his debut season, then he had that ankle break against Rangers and his 3rd season. The other 2 and a half he's been awful.
This
Stretty, yet prior to last season, few players regularly got as many assists as he did, and that's ignoring the amount of sitters Berba and Welbeck would miss in that time.
Beckham prior to his move to Madrid only got 9 assists and Giggs got 18 that season, and these are players with twice the ability of Tony.
Ronaldo only got 13 assists in 07, where he was the best player in the world.
15 assists is very good return.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Beckham prior to his move to Madrid only got 9 assists and Giggs got 18 that season, and these are players with twice the ability of Tony.
Beckham usually got about 25-30.. He was on te bench that seasons lot. We played ole on the ong instead
Ronaldo only got 13 assists in 07, where he was the best player in the world.
Ronaldo got 23 goals and 23 assists in all comps. See the difference?
15 is not so good.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Is football not more than about simple stats? For me the bottom line is this:
Valencia is not a Ronaldo, Beckham or Giggs, but look at the calibre of player you are comparing him to? For me he has shown initially an acceptable level of performance, and although below that over the past season, there are I believe some signs of improvment and we should keep him as part of the squad.
There are more pressing problems than Valencia (Nani for me for one), such as addressing the central midfield area, and I find it hard to imagine that Valencia won't be here next season, so let's hope that he recaptures some of that form.
No Beckham started most games that season. With Ronaldo I was talking about in the premier league.
Valencia got 13 in his 3rd season, which is the same as a Balon D'Or contender, yet you're saying that any winger should get that much whereas world class wingers at United have either failed to get that many or have matched it.
Not many players get 15 assists in a season. And Valencia also did this while coming back from serious injuries and being rotated at times with Nani on the right.
Valencia should be given credit for this. Only Silva got more assists than him in 2011/12 and he was seen as arguably the best player in the league, and that season Tony won our player of the year.
Yet according to you he's always been average. Facking reta.rded logic. Tony has his limitations but to call him average after playing consistently well without being world class is stupid.
It's only really world class players that were as productive as him, so just because he wasn't world class but was as productive as them doesn't mean he was always average and should be given credit for his performances.
The fact you make excuses for Robben being always injured yet ignore Tony having two serious injuries for us shows that you're just not capable of being objective.
There are more pressing problems than Valencia (Nani for me for one), such as addressing the central midfield area
-----------------------------
Amen to that, we are still a million miles away from replacing keane and scholes, not an easy task by any stretch but one that seriously needs addressing.
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posted on 4/1/14
comment by Paulpowersleftfoot (U1037)
posted 4 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What you sticking your fecking thumb up for?
Our fixture congestion has feck all to do with Gollom and his diving crew
You concentrate on hoping stoke and West Brom slip up to keep you in 7th,ragman
posted on 4/1/14
comment by Earl Brutus (U1449)
posted 6 seconds ago
I thought he was a good signing at the time, especially the period before his injury, granted he seems to have regressed over the last couple of seasons but he wasn't always this bad.
We were never going to replace Ronaldo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could of done a damm site better than the one trick pony we ended up with.
I think his best season he only gt like 15 assists. That's woeful for a winger who only we really crossed the ball to other players😃
posted on 4/1/14
Diggler
posted on 4/1/14
Many apologies 🎈
posted on 4/1/14
Comparing Valencia to Ronaldo is pointless, because comparing 99% of players to Ronaldo is pointless.
Valencia is probably an example of a player whom we paid out a few million extra than ideal for, and he's turned out 'ok'. It's easy to forget how initially he was productive for us, people will say he's been found out, but I don't think his level is as bad as some people make out, and he's still a good squad member.
The problem is we have a lot of players of similar ilk, or even not quite as good, who can fall into the good sqaud member category without being brilliant, and for whom a fee of £15-£25 million was paid - e.g. Nani, Young, Anderson etc
Of our most recent signings, Jones could turn out to be great value, as could De Gea, for me the debate is still out on Smalling.
I would like to see us go out a buy some really top class central midfielders - of course there is risk with any transfer, but that will mean forking out more on individual players than what we have been doing recently.
posted on 4/1/14
I think a lot of people were banking on Nani turning into Ronaldo MK2. Unfortunately it just hasn't worked out.
posted on 4/1/14
The problem is that no-one was going to be Ronaldo MK2 - a few years down the line and he and Messi are still way ahead of everyone. Don't slate me for this, but I think Bale can battle for best of the rest, but being compared to the top 2 will always be tough for any player.
posted on 4/1/14
I know, but with him being a tricky Portugeuse winger from Sporting who copied some of Ronaldos traits plus he shows flashes of absolute genius sporadically...
posted on 4/1/14
We should of bought Ribery. Say what you want about him but he is twice as productive as Valencia was at his best and scores a fair amount as well.
posted on 4/1/14
As I said yesterday I think the Valencia signing was very much informed by the Berbatov signing, rightly or wrongly.
Fergie wanted to create a great striker partnership between Rooney and Berba, rather than playing a fluid system we'd seen previously, and with our financial restrictions and a change of style Valencia fit the mould for a return to a more traditional 442.
Personally I think these were mistakes, despite our success. Saying that I think people have short memories when it comes to Valencia.
Yes he has always been one dimensional, but for about three seasons he was one of our best players and one of the best players in the league, one dimensional or not.
People seem to forget how often he would destroy some of the best full backs in the league and create lots of chances for us - if Berba and Welbeck were better finishers he'd have more assist to show for it.
The Valencia we are seeing now is a far cry from the player that first came to United. A lot of revisionism goes on in regard to Tony.
Nobody on here was calling him average, useless or a donkey two years ago - the debate was who was better out of Nani and Tony, but both were seem as among top wingers in the league.
But now he's become useless people are acting like he was always an average player, which is completely disrespectful to a player that has been so important to our success the last few years.
posted on 4/1/14
He wasn't available then though was he?
posted on 4/1/14
From what I can remember Valencia has only had 2 good (not great) seasons with us, his debut season, then he had that ankle break against Rangers and his 3rd season. The other 2 and a half he's been awful.
But TBF I never expected too much from the guy, no one we brought in could have ever replaced Ronaldo so it was always unfair to do so. He's a 6 or 7 out of 10 performer, which isn't bad but for a club like United you really should expect more.
posted on 4/1/14
Darren - well said, and I still want Valencia to stay, because if nothing else, he is still a hard working player and an asset to the squad. I view Nani differently, he is a more luxury player, and unlike Valencia, I think Nani's good times are fairly heavily outweighed by his not so good ones. The problem for both of them is that we have had so many top quality widemen for us, and comparisons are inevitable, if impossible to live up to.
I still can't work out why we gave Nani a hefty contract extension, as for a while I don't think he showed enough to warrant one. I do believe that our widemen would benefit greatly from having creative quality central midfielders, and if we solve that problem then as a midfield 4 it would improve things greatly.
posted on 4/1/14
I am one of Valencia's biggest critic, but I find it quite amusing how people have forgotten how brilliantly he was for us. He had a brilliant season when he was brought for us.
Did Pep not once say that Valencia was the best winger in the world at one point?
posted on 4/1/14
I am one of Valencia's biggest critic, but I find it quite amusing how people have forgotten how brilliantly he was for us. He had a brilliant season when he was brought for us.
It wasn't brilliant by any stretch. He set up about 15 goals. That's bloody expected for any winger
posted on 4/1/14
In his second season after he came back from his injury he was very good and helped us win the title and get to the CL final.
First and 3rd seasons were very good as well. He was extremely consistent in what he did.
I've never been the biggest fan of Valencia, and always preferred Nani, but his consistency and ability to regularly create chances for us from the wing should not be overlooked, nor do I, and I think some people seem to overlook it because as he's become so poor it's easy to rewrite history and make out he wasn't that good in the first place.
Tony has only had one and a half bad seasons at United. Sadly they've come at a time where we've really needed him not to be. And it's not looking like he's going to get any better as he just seems to have lost the ability to cross.
posted on 4/1/14
t I can remember Valencia has only had 2 good (not great) seasons with us, his debut season, then he had that ankle break against Rangers and his 3rd season. The other 2 and a half he's been awful.
This
posted on 4/1/14
Stretty, yet prior to last season, few players regularly got as many assists as he did, and that's ignoring the amount of sitters Berba and Welbeck would miss in that time.
Beckham prior to his move to Madrid only got 9 assists and Giggs got 18 that season, and these are players with twice the ability of Tony.
Ronaldo only got 13 assists in 07, where he was the best player in the world.
15 assists is very good return.
posted on 4/1/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 4/1/14
Beckham prior to his move to Madrid only got 9 assists and Giggs got 18 that season, and these are players with twice the ability of Tony.
Beckham usually got about 25-30.. He was on te bench that seasons lot. We played ole on the ong instead
Ronaldo only got 13 assists in 07, where he was the best player in the world.
Ronaldo got 23 goals and 23 assists in all comps. See the difference?
15 is not so good.
posted on 4/1/14
Wing*
posted on 4/1/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 4/1/14
Is football not more than about simple stats? For me the bottom line is this:
Valencia is not a Ronaldo, Beckham or Giggs, but look at the calibre of player you are comparing him to? For me he has shown initially an acceptable level of performance, and although below that over the past season, there are I believe some signs of improvment and we should keep him as part of the squad.
There are more pressing problems than Valencia (Nani for me for one), such as addressing the central midfield area, and I find it hard to imagine that Valencia won't be here next season, so let's hope that he recaptures some of that form.
posted on 4/1/14
No Beckham started most games that season. With Ronaldo I was talking about in the premier league.
Valencia got 13 in his 3rd season, which is the same as a Balon D'Or contender, yet you're saying that any winger should get that much whereas world class wingers at United have either failed to get that many or have matched it.
Not many players get 15 assists in a season. And Valencia also did this while coming back from serious injuries and being rotated at times with Nani on the right.
Valencia should be given credit for this. Only Silva got more assists than him in 2011/12 and he was seen as arguably the best player in the league, and that season Tony won our player of the year.
Yet according to you he's always been average. Facking reta.rded logic. Tony has his limitations but to call him average after playing consistently well without being world class is stupid.
It's only really world class players that were as productive as him, so just because he wasn't world class but was as productive as them doesn't mean he was always average and should be given credit for his performances.
The fact you make excuses for Robben being always injured yet ignore Tony having two serious injuries for us shows that you're just not capable of being objective.
posted on 4/1/14
There are more pressing problems than Valencia (Nani for me for one), such as addressing the central midfield area
-----------------------------
Amen to that, we are still a million miles away from replacing keane and scholes, not an easy task by any stretch but one that seriously needs addressing.
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