I understand that any reference to skin colour in any context will upset and offend somebody.

---

It's the main reason I'm differentiating saying things like 'get me a drink black man' differ depending on the social setting.

It's completely different saying that to a friend/acquaintance, who knows your sense of humour, understands what you mean and understands that you clearly mean no harm by it, than it is saying it to a complete stranger.

comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 5 minutes ago
Going back to the original point - I'm assuming you're arguing that Suarez used negrito in the same sense you're describing above?
------------------
I believe it was Negro, not negrito

comment by Sid (U1868)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds(Spurs 0-5 LFC Know your place(U1721)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by It's a Mexican Rave! (U6687)
posted 3 minutes ago
I suppose it's ok to say "oi gay lad, get me a drink will ya" to Jay is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No! I'm not gayIf the guy was on friendly terms with said bartender, and it's said in jest that is also a far different circumstance. That implies a level of understanding between the 2, that it is meant as a joke, or neither party will take offence.

What I gathered from the initial comments though, was that this was a stranger going to a 'random' bartender and saying get me a drink, black man. I don't see any possible way that can be a positive, or even neutral remark.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That may be true but it's still not racial abuse as no abuse has occurred.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But can you at least understand why some people may take offence to a comment about the colour of someone's skin being referenced unnecessarily?
----------------------------------------------------------------------


I understand that any reference to skin colour in any context will upset and offend somebody.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
wrong

It's only when in a negative context, like what Suarez did

comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 5 minutes ago
Going back to the original point - I'm assuming you're arguing that Suarez used negrito in the same sense you're describing above?
------------------
I believe it was Negro, not negrito
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whichever it was - there's no reason to make a reference to someone's colour on a pitch. Least of all if you're rivals & it is a word that could easily be misconstrued, when said in another language.

Even if what he said was completely innocent, he's still created a setting in which is had the potential to offend. I can't understand why someone would do that.

Black blokes from the 60s/70s used to take it (i.e good natured ribbing & other terms of endearment that referrenced their skin colour) with a pinch of salt & get on with it.

Today's bunch are hyper-sensitive and would take you court for even the most innocent of race jokes. Crazy world this!!!!

If someone takes offence if I mention a skin colour that is their problem.

I am not racist and I do not descriminate and neither would I tolerate racist behaviour.

Mentioning the colour of someones skin is not racist.

Whichever it was - there's no reason to make a reference to someone's colour on a pitch.
-----------------
It's against the rules referencing skin colour in any way Jay

'My clubs worth more than your club', 'our kit deal is worth more that your kit deal' - gotta love these mancs . I thought i was supporting a football team - how's your football team doing compared to my football team?

comment by ButchBarry_MulletsAreBack (U17994)
posted 28 seconds ago
Black blokes from the 60s/70s used to take it (i.e good natured ribbing & other terms of endearment that referrenced their skin colour) with a pinch of salt & get on with it.

Today's bunch are hyper-sensitive and would take you court for even the most innocent of race jokes. Crazy world this!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing wrong with good natured ribbing among friends - likewise these days I'm sure they give it back as good as they get, in the right social setting.

Put simply - among friends who 'get' the nature of the ribbing = fine.
With random people = probably not fine.

Haven't said it is by itself Sid. If depends entirely on the context.

Big difference using it to describe someone - i.e. 'that guy is black' to using it to talk at someone 'hey black man, get me a drink'

comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sid (U1868)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds(Spurs 0-5 LFC Know your place(U1721)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by It's a Mexican Rave! (U6687)
posted 3 minutes ago
I suppose it's ok to say "oi gay lad, get me a drink will ya" to Jay is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No! I'm not gayIf the guy was on friendly terms with said bartender, and it's said in jest that is also a far different circumstance. That implies a level of understanding between the 2, that it is meant as a joke, or neither party will take offence.

What I gathered from the initial comments though, was that this was a stranger going to a 'random' bartender and saying get me a drink, black man. I don't see any possible way that can be a positive, or even neutral remark.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That may be true but it's still not racial abuse as no abuse has occurred.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But can you at least understand why some people may take offence to a comment about the colour of someone's skin being referenced unnecessarily?
----------------------------------------------------------------------


I understand that any reference to skin colour in any context will upset and offend somebody.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
wrong

It's only when in a negative context, like what Suarez did
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Wrong

Any mention of skin colour offends someone, somewhere. I have seen it happen too many times.

comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 6 minutes ago
No I can't. I don't think it's offensive. Unless people are offended by their own colour as they think themselves that it's inferior.

I can understand that people have been told they should be offended so much so that they now accept it as normal but I don't.

---

You see no way in which saying 'Get me a drink black man' could be offensive? I'm not suggesting I find it offensive, and I doubt I'd find much offense in someone saying the reverse to me. However if you can't at least see why some people might find that offensive, I think you may have something wrong with you.
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Well when it's said like get me a drink black man, then yeah, I could see how that could be offensive. But I meant if you ask in a normal way with a normal tone, hey black man can I get a beer? It's not the norm thing to do and I wouldn't do it myself, however it's not racial abuse, just like asking somebody "why, black?" isn't racial abuse.

Any mention of skin colour offends someone, somewhere. I have seen it happen too many times.

--

It does - see the likes of what's his name from the SoBL - he brings faux racial offence to a whole new level - in that I genuinely think he believes any mention of skin colour is a racial slur.

comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 5 minutes ago
Going back to the original point - I'm assuming you're arguing that Suarez used negrito in the same sense you're describing above?
------------------
I believe it was Negro, not negrito
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was 'negro' which means 'black' in Spanish. The newspapers started the 'negrito' thing.

Going back to the original point - I'm assuming you're arguing that Suarez used negrito in the same sense you're describing above?
===================================================
Jay, he did not use the word 'negrito'...that was a red herring created by the Press.

I don't know why people still argue about the cultural difference between using the word 'negro' in Spanish and using 'black man' in English, because the FA report settled it.

They brought in language experts from Manchester University, and the defence that it has different connotations in Spanish was accepted. He was not found guilty on that basis, he was found guilty on a different basis.

Here is what the language experts found, word-for-word:
“If Mr Suarez used the word "negro" as described by Mr Suarez, this would not be interpreted as either offensive or offensive in racial terms in Uruguay and Spanish-speaking America more generally”

It’s not like in this country, where there would be some doubt as to whether you were being sarcastic. It’s a more literal language, if you don’t say it aggressively, it’s not taken aggresssively. Only if you say it aggressively, is it taken as racist.

So the question of whether he was guilty hinged on the context in which he said it (and the two accounts given by the two players of what that context were completely different), not on a rejection of the notion that it's interpreted differently in Spanish...that was accepted by the FA's language experts, so this argument is moot.

People cry about the most pathetic things offending them these days.

My daughter couldnt make me a fathers day card in school incase it offended the kids that dont have dads

I try not to offend anyone and am certainly not racist so if I mention skin colour and someone is offended by it I see it as their problem not mine

hey black man can I get a beer? It's not the norm thing to do and I wouldn't do it myself, however it's not racial abuse, just like asking somebody "why, black?" isn't racial abuse.

---

There's a reason it's not the norm - I'm not claiming it's racial abuse. i'm claiming that it is all too easy to misconstrue sentences like that. Easy to hear an inflection that isn't there, and it's easy to escalate it, even if you're only imagining the offence or intention behind it.

What I am also claiming, is that speaking like that to someone, and differentiating their skin colour (to a complete stranger) is at best, inappropriate. For you to be completely unable to comprehend why some people might take offense to it does show a remarkable level of ignorance.

comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 2 minutes ago
Any mention of skin colour offends someone, somewhere. I have seen it happen too many times.

--

It does - see the likes of what's his name from the SoBL - he brings faux racial offence to a whole new level - in that I genuinely think he believes any mention of skin colour is a racial slur.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Spot on m8.

It is getting a bit ridiculous to be honest.

comment by CutMeAndIBleedRed (U7593)
posted 5 minutes ago
'My clubs worth more than your club', 'our kit deal is worth more that your kit deal' - gotta love these mancs. I thought i was supporting a football team - how's your football team doing compared to my football team?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both on the same number of points

Zero

I try not to offend anyone and am certainly not racist so if I mention skin colour and someone is offended by it I see it as their problem not mine

---

Do you not think context plays a part in that?

comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 4 minutes ago
Whichever it was - there's no reason to make a reference to someone's colour on a pitch.
-----------------
It's against the rules referencing skin colour in any way Jay
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that's the crux of it for me. As you said before, when we looked at law E1(b) I believe it was, it said you cannot reference skin colour, race or religion etc. I don't believe it even mentioned that it had to be abusive, just no mention to it.

Jay, he did not use the word 'negrito'...that was a red herring created by the Press.

--

Fair enough, I was trying to remember which one meant simply 'black' and couldn't! Looks like I guessed wrong. It still doesn't detract from the point made, if you substitute the correct word in!

Anyway, time to go home. If I can be ársed I'll pop on when I get back.

comment by Wessie Road (U10652)
posted 1 minute ago
Going back to the original point - I'm assuming you're arguing that Suarez used negrito in the same sense you're describing above?
===================================================
Jay, he did not use the word 'negrito'...that was a red herring created by the Press.

I don't know why people still argue about the cultural difference between using the word 'negro' in Spanish and using 'black man' in English, because the FA report settled it.

They brought in language experts from Manchester University, and the defence that it has different connotations in Spanish was accepted. He was not found guilty on that basis, he was found guilty on a different basis.

Here is what the language experts found, word-for-word:
“If Mr Suarez used the word "negro" as described by Mr Suarez, this would not be interpreted as either offensive or offensive in racial terms in Uruguay and Spanish-speaking America more generally”

It’s not like in this country, where there would be some doubt as to whether you were being sarcastic. It’s a more literal language, if you don’t say it aggressively, it’s not taken aggresssively. Only if you say it aggressively, is it taken as racist.

So the question of whether he was guilty hinged on the context in which he said it (and the two accounts given by the two players of what that context were completely different), not on a rejection of the notion that it's interpreted differently in Spanish...that was accepted by the FA's language experts, so this argument is moot.



----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no problem with that whatsoever but if anyone believes Suarez wasn't using it in an aggressive manner, then in my opinion, they are deluding themselves

This was a Manc Scouse league game ffs

Jay, he did not use the word 'negrito'...that was a red herring created by the Press.

.............

Created by Liverpool fans.

in mentioning colour?

I have already said, I wouldnt use colour in a derogatory way but I would mention colour.

I wouldnt set out to offend so any offence taken is not my problem.

If I am wrong please explain to me how.