Nope, i have condemned both from the start, meanwhile numerous posters have tried to justify Hamas and it buddies reasons for killing innocent people whilst attacking Israels carrying out of similar attrocities.
Its quite simple, if you blame one, you blame both, its not an either, or!!
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Nope, i have condemned both from the start, meanwhile numerous posters have tried to justify Hamas and it buddies reasons for killing innocent people whilst attacking Israels carrying out of similar attrocities.
Its quite simple, if you blame one, you blame both, its not an either, or!!
--------------------------
I can't speak for others but all my comments on this thread so far have been to stand up for the Palestinian cause (i.e. independence/statehood). I've provided some rationale behind Hamas' actions, but not justification, as I believe it's important to understand the roots if you want to end the conflict (which is ultimately a battle over land). I have refuted some anti-Hamas propaganda at some points because I believe it was untrue and used to justify Israeli atrocities against the Palestinian civilian population, not because I am in any way supportive of Hamas. I deplore their tactics and if it weren't for Israel's Iron Dome technology, they would have killed a lot more civilians just as they did in the past.
comment by Cinciwolf (U11551)
posted 21 minutes ago
The biggest lesson learnt on this thread had been that so many think terrorism is an acceptable step if you are oppressed.
Even after 9/11 I felt terror threats were over exaggerated, but this has opened my eyes to how many sympathizers there really are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You really buy into this "war on terrorism" schtick, don't you.
So this is still going on..
Israel have overdone it. You can't justify or defend the death of around a thousand 'innocent' civilians regardless of the threat a so called terrorist group poses. Israel have gone beyond legitimately defending itself and have lost support of a lot of people.
Hamas are a terrorist group that have no other particular goal but to wipe out Israel. Both should be held responsible for the death of many innocent civilians.
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 (U1661)
posted 20 minutes ago
So this is still going on..
Israel have overdone it. You can't justify or defend the death of around a thousand 'innocent' civilians regardless of the threat a so called terrorist group poses. Israel have gone beyond legitimately defending itself and have lost support of a lot of people.
Hamas are a terrorist group that have no other particular goal but to wipe out Israel. Both should be held responsible for the death of many innocent civilians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully both are being held responsible by the sane amongst us.
comment by Cinciwolf (U11551)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 (U1661)
posted 20 minutes ago
So this is still going on..
Israel have overdone it. You can't justify or defend the death of around a thousand 'innocent' civilians regardless of the threat a so called terrorist group poses. Israel have gone beyond legitimately defending itself and have lost support of a lot of people.
Hamas are a terrorist group that have no other particular goal but to wipe out Israel. Both should be held responsible for the death of many innocent civilians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully both are being held responsible by the sane amongst us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which must be why your first post on this thread said, "The blood is on Hamas hands and nobody elses, they have the power to end this, not Israel."
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Cinciwolf (U11551)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 (U1661)
posted 20 minutes ago
So this is still going on..
Israel have overdone it. You can't justify or defend the death of around a thousand 'innocent' civilians regardless of the threat a so called terrorist group poses. Israel have gone beyond legitimately defending itself and have lost support of a lot of people.
Hamas are a terrorist group that have no other particular goal but to wipe out Israel. Both should be held responsible for the death of many innocent civilians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully both are being held responsible by the sane amongst us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which must be why your first post on this thread said, "The blood is on Hamas hands and nobody elses, they have the power to end this, not Israel."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, that was when i was uneducated on the situation, i picked up info and learnt my way through and realised that comment was foolish and didn't fully explain my opinion
Try doing the same
Fair play, good that people can say that, I admire it.
"Try doing the same "
I've read most of this thread - gotta admit I flagged and missed out 30 odd pages halfway through, but most of that seemed to be bickering - and I stand by what I said from the start.
btw, that's not to say I haven't learnt plenty from people's posts on this thread, and my own reading prompted by them. Been a real interesting thread.
It's not really as simple as condemning both sides.
There is a very real and valid reason behind Hamas' eesistance. Israel have little excuse for their land grab...
"It's not really as simple as condemning both sides."
It is when it comes to the methods they chose to use.
Condemn their tactics is fine I am just saying they have a very justified reason for fighting back.
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 8 minutes ago
Condemn their tactics is fine I am just saying they have a very justified reason for fighting back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and this is the entire problem.
Whilst people think like you there will never be peace.
comment by Cinciwolf (U11551)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 8 minutes ago
Condemn their tactics is fine I am just saying they have a very justified reason for fighting back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and this is the entire problem.
Whilst people think like you there will never be peace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes my view if supporting the victims rather than the aggressor is a huge problem....
I can imagine similar in ww2, I would there pointing out that although the allies have done bad things they have a very justified fight.
Someone would come along and tell me I am part of the problem, how can you back the allies... Look at all the nasty things Russia have done...
comment by Cinciwolf (U11551)
posted 44 minutes ago
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 8 minutes ago
Condemn their tactics is fine I am just saying they have a very justified reason for fighting back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and this is the entire problem.
Whilst people think like you there will never be peace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This...
Anyone that think Hamas' actions are justifiable is insane. Anyone who thinks so probably think Israel should be wiped out and then also responsible for Israel aggression, death of innocent civilians. Until this view changes, there wont be peace.
If Hamas had Israel military capabilities they'd probably murder every Israeli citizen within hours.
So people are not allowed to fight back when thy are thrown out their homes and off their homes?
How can fighting back in that situation not be justified?
I didn't say everything Hamas did is justified but people who don't even think the Palestinians are allowed to defend their land are quite frankly delusional.
No country on earth would let their land be stolen off them by a foreign power without fighting back so why people expect the Palestinians to take it lying down I will never know...
Wow, how did you make that leap of logic? He clearly said that he didn't justify their actions, rather their cause. Which is very fair unless you think Palestinians shouldn't live in an independent state of their own, free of military occupation and blockades from all angles.
But they fight back by killing civilians.
No different to any rocket israel drops on palestine.
Yes both sides kill civilians, they usually do in war, both sides killed civilians in WW2 that doesn't make Germany's cause right or the allies cause wrong.
thats why none of us countering your claims are supporting israel either, but yet you spend your time justifying terror groups actions
Both sides need to recognise that the others have a right to exist. However, there is too much extremist sentiment from the leadership of both sides that simply being able to accept this would be seen as weak when in fact it would be courageous.
The end has to come from a will to see an end, and ultimately that rests with both of them. Any attempt from another country to bring about a solution will be viewed as partisan by at least one of them and would defeat the purpose.
What could happen however is that countries radically reform the UN as it has become utterly pointless.
comment by Cinciwolf (U11551)
posted 4 minutes ago
thats why none of us countering your claims are supporting israel either, but yet you spend your time justifying terror groups actions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So whilst WW2 was going on you wouldn't you point out that yes both sides are killing civilians but the allies actually have a just cause whilst the Germans do not?
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 24 minutes ago
So people are not allowed to fight back when thy are thrown out their homes and off their homes?
How can fighting back in that situation not be justified?
I didn't say everything Hamas did is justified but people who don't even think the Palestinians are allowed to defend their land are quite frankly delusional.
No country on earth would let their land be stolen off them by a foreign power without fighting back so why people expect the Palestinians to take it lying down I will never know...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is very short sighted..
Everyone with any brain knows that Hamas are not fighting to get the land assigned to them under the UN agreement. Instead they're driven by hate and their aim is to murder the last Jew and wipe out Israel.
If their intention was only to fight for their people and get them their land/peace,
They wouldn't put their people in harms way..
They'd actually fight the Israeli government rather than sending suicide bombers to buses full of innocent Israeli citizens to blow themselves up.
There's no way in hell you could reasonably justify Hamas ideology or actions. No way! It's driven by hate and clearly known that they would endanger their own people for their ideology/cause.
Regardless of stolen land or not, no person with common sense would sacrifice his or her brothers and sisters for land (and whilst knowing fully well that the sacrifice isn't going to guarantee getting back the land).
Firstly a lot of wars are over land, all countries who goto war are willing to sacrifice their people for land, often they have little chance of winning.
You are also being short sighted the unrealistic aims of Hamas make the Palestinians cause no less just.
Let us not forget Hamas were created as a result of Israels actions. Turning round and using the terrorists that have been created because of the Israelis as an excuse to damn the Palestinians is interesting logic.
I would however point out that the I RA had some unrealistic aims to begin with but after being given a fair peace they stopped the terrorism.
Driving a people to extremism and then using that as an excuse to continue your injustice against them is fairly strange logic.
I suppose we should have supported the racist apartheid government of South Africa because they drove their opponents to extremism also...
Lastly how the hell are Hamas supposed to fight the Israeli army, it is one of the most advanced armies on earth versus a ragtag band of terrorists... I am not justifying killing civilians but surely you can understand why the Palestinians don't simply have a fight in an open field against the Israeli army.... They would be slaughtered.
No one is saying Hamas is some great thing, but there is very little excuse not to back the Palestinans who have been fighting an aggressive occupier for years.
I don't why people seem to think if they were thrown off their land struggled for water whilst the people who threw them out enjoyed swimming pools and watering their lush green gardens that they wouldn't fight back.
Apparently most people would be only to happy to get thrown off their land and live in poverty whilst their conquerees lived like kings (in comparison) next door.
There is simply no excuse for Israelis continues occupation of Palestinian land, using the terrorism they caused by the occupation as an excuse not to end the occupation is a very poor excuse and a self fulfilling excuse.
Benayoun is a Disgrace
Page 113 of 146
114 | 115 | 116 | 117 | 118
posted on 4/8/14
Nope, i have condemned both from the start, meanwhile numerous posters have tried to justify Hamas and it buddies reasons for killing innocent people whilst attacking Israels carrying out of similar attrocities.
Its quite simple, if you blame one, you blame both, its not an either, or!!
posted on 4/8/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 4/8/14
Nope, i have condemned both from the start, meanwhile numerous posters have tried to justify Hamas and it buddies reasons for killing innocent people whilst attacking Israels carrying out of similar attrocities.
Its quite simple, if you blame one, you blame both, its not an either, or!!
--------------------------
I can't speak for others but all my comments on this thread so far have been to stand up for the Palestinian cause (i.e. independence/statehood). I've provided some rationale behind Hamas' actions, but not justification, as I believe it's important to understand the roots if you want to end the conflict (which is ultimately a battle over land). I have refuted some anti-Hamas propaganda at some points because I believe it was untrue and used to justify Israeli atrocities against the Palestinian civilian population, not because I am in any way supportive of Hamas. I deplore their tactics and if it weren't for Israel's Iron Dome technology, they would have killed a lot more civilians just as they did in the past.
posted on 4/8/14
comment by Cinciwolf (U11551)
posted 21 minutes ago
The biggest lesson learnt on this thread had been that so many think terrorism is an acceptable step if you are oppressed.
Even after 9/11 I felt terror threats were over exaggerated, but this has opened my eyes to how many sympathizers there really are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You really buy into this "war on terrorism" schtick, don't you.
posted on 4/8/14
So this is still going on..
Israel have overdone it. You can't justify or defend the death of around a thousand 'innocent' civilians regardless of the threat a so called terrorist group poses. Israel have gone beyond legitimately defending itself and have lost support of a lot of people.
Hamas are a terrorist group that have no other particular goal but to wipe out Israel. Both should be held responsible for the death of many innocent civilians.
posted on 4/8/14
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 (U1661)
posted 20 minutes ago
So this is still going on..
Israel have overdone it. You can't justify or defend the death of around a thousand 'innocent' civilians regardless of the threat a so called terrorist group poses. Israel have gone beyond legitimately defending itself and have lost support of a lot of people.
Hamas are a terrorist group that have no other particular goal but to wipe out Israel. Both should be held responsible for the death of many innocent civilians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully both are being held responsible by the sane amongst us.
posted on 4/8/14
comment by Cinciwolf (U11551)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 (U1661)
posted 20 minutes ago
So this is still going on..
Israel have overdone it. You can't justify or defend the death of around a thousand 'innocent' civilians regardless of the threat a so called terrorist group poses. Israel have gone beyond legitimately defending itself and have lost support of a lot of people.
Hamas are a terrorist group that have no other particular goal but to wipe out Israel. Both should be held responsible for the death of many innocent civilians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully both are being held responsible by the sane amongst us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which must be why your first post on this thread said, "The blood is on Hamas hands and nobody elses, they have the power to end this, not Israel."
posted on 4/8/14
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Cinciwolf (U11551)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 (U1661)
posted 20 minutes ago
So this is still going on..
Israel have overdone it. You can't justify or defend the death of around a thousand 'innocent' civilians regardless of the threat a so called terrorist group poses. Israel have gone beyond legitimately defending itself and have lost support of a lot of people.
Hamas are a terrorist group that have no other particular goal but to wipe out Israel. Both should be held responsible for the death of many innocent civilians.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully both are being held responsible by the sane amongst us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which must be why your first post on this thread said, "The blood is on Hamas hands and nobody elses, they have the power to end this, not Israel."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, that was when i was uneducated on the situation, i picked up info and learnt my way through and realised that comment was foolish and didn't fully explain my opinion
Try doing the same
posted on 4/8/14
Fair play, good that people can say that, I admire it.
"Try doing the same "
I've read most of this thread - gotta admit I flagged and missed out 30 odd pages halfway through, but most of that seemed to be bickering - and I stand by what I said from the start.
posted on 4/8/14
btw, that's not to say I haven't learnt plenty from people's posts on this thread, and my own reading prompted by them. Been a real interesting thread.
posted on 4/8/14
It's not really as simple as condemning both sides.
There is a very real and valid reason behind Hamas' eesistance. Israel have little excuse for their land grab...
posted on 4/8/14
"It's not really as simple as condemning both sides."
It is when it comes to the methods they chose to use.
posted on 4/8/14
Condemn their tactics is fine I am just saying they have a very justified reason for fighting back.
posted on 4/8/14
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 8 minutes ago
Condemn their tactics is fine I am just saying they have a very justified reason for fighting back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and this is the entire problem.
Whilst people think like you there will never be peace.
posted on 4/8/14
comment by Cinciwolf (U11551)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 8 minutes ago
Condemn their tactics is fine I am just saying they have a very justified reason for fighting back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and this is the entire problem.
Whilst people think like you there will never be peace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes my view if supporting the victims rather than the aggressor is a huge problem....
I can imagine similar in ww2, I would there pointing out that although the allies have done bad things they have a very justified fight.
Someone would come along and tell me I am part of the problem, how can you back the allies... Look at all the nasty things Russia have done...
posted on 4/8/14
comment by Cinciwolf (U11551)
posted 44 minutes ago
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 8 minutes ago
Condemn their tactics is fine I am just saying they have a very justified reason for fighting back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and this is the entire problem.
Whilst people think like you there will never be peace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This...
Anyone that think Hamas' actions are justifiable is insane. Anyone who thinks so probably think Israel should be wiped out and then also responsible for Israel aggression, death of innocent civilians. Until this view changes, there wont be peace.
If Hamas had Israel military capabilities they'd probably murder every Israeli citizen within hours.
posted on 4/8/14
So people are not allowed to fight back when thy are thrown out their homes and off their homes?
How can fighting back in that situation not be justified?
I didn't say everything Hamas did is justified but people who don't even think the Palestinians are allowed to defend their land are quite frankly delusional.
No country on earth would let their land be stolen off them by a foreign power without fighting back so why people expect the Palestinians to take it lying down I will never know...
posted on 4/8/14
Wow, how did you make that leap of logic? He clearly said that he didn't justify their actions, rather their cause. Which is very fair unless you think Palestinians shouldn't live in an independent state of their own, free of military occupation and blockades from all angles.
posted on 4/8/14
But they fight back by killing civilians.
No different to any rocket israel drops on palestine.
posted on 4/8/14
Yes both sides kill civilians, they usually do in war, both sides killed civilians in WW2 that doesn't make Germany's cause right or the allies cause wrong.
posted on 4/8/14
thats why none of us countering your claims are supporting israel either, but yet you spend your time justifying terror groups actions
posted on 4/8/14
Both sides need to recognise that the others have a right to exist. However, there is too much extremist sentiment from the leadership of both sides that simply being able to accept this would be seen as weak when in fact it would be courageous.
The end has to come from a will to see an end, and ultimately that rests with both of them. Any attempt from another country to bring about a solution will be viewed as partisan by at least one of them and would defeat the purpose.
What could happen however is that countries radically reform the UN as it has become utterly pointless.
posted on 4/8/14
comment by Cinciwolf (U11551)
posted 4 minutes ago
thats why none of us countering your claims are supporting israel either, but yet you spend your time justifying terror groups actions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So whilst WW2 was going on you wouldn't you point out that yes both sides are killing civilians but the allies actually have a just cause whilst the Germans do not?
posted on 4/8/14
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 24 minutes ago
So people are not allowed to fight back when thy are thrown out their homes and off their homes?
How can fighting back in that situation not be justified?
I didn't say everything Hamas did is justified but people who don't even think the Palestinians are allowed to defend their land are quite frankly delusional.
No country on earth would let their land be stolen off them by a foreign power without fighting back so why people expect the Palestinians to take it lying down I will never know...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is very short sighted..
Everyone with any brain knows that Hamas are not fighting to get the land assigned to them under the UN agreement. Instead they're driven by hate and their aim is to murder the last Jew and wipe out Israel.
If their intention was only to fight for their people and get them their land/peace,
They wouldn't put their people in harms way..
They'd actually fight the Israeli government rather than sending suicide bombers to buses full of innocent Israeli citizens to blow themselves up.
There's no way in hell you could reasonably justify Hamas ideology or actions. No way! It's driven by hate and clearly known that they would endanger their own people for their ideology/cause.
Regardless of stolen land or not, no person with common sense would sacrifice his or her brothers and sisters for land (and whilst knowing fully well that the sacrifice isn't going to guarantee getting back the land).
posted on 4/8/14
Firstly a lot of wars are over land, all countries who goto war are willing to sacrifice their people for land, often they have little chance of winning.
You are also being short sighted the unrealistic aims of Hamas make the Palestinians cause no less just.
Let us not forget Hamas were created as a result of Israels actions. Turning round and using the terrorists that have been created because of the Israelis as an excuse to damn the Palestinians is interesting logic.
I would however point out that the I RA had some unrealistic aims to begin with but after being given a fair peace they stopped the terrorism.
Driving a people to extremism and then using that as an excuse to continue your injustice against them is fairly strange logic.
I suppose we should have supported the racist apartheid government of South Africa because they drove their opponents to extremism also...
Lastly how the hell are Hamas supposed to fight the Israeli army, it is one of the most advanced armies on earth versus a ragtag band of terrorists... I am not justifying killing civilians but surely you can understand why the Palestinians don't simply have a fight in an open field against the Israeli army.... They would be slaughtered.
No one is saying Hamas is some great thing, but there is very little excuse not to back the Palestinans who have been fighting an aggressive occupier for years.
I don't why people seem to think if they were thrown off their land struggled for water whilst the people who threw them out enjoyed swimming pools and watering their lush green gardens that they wouldn't fight back.
Apparently most people would be only to happy to get thrown off their land and live in poverty whilst their conquerees lived like kings (in comparison) next door.
There is simply no excuse for Israelis continues occupation of Palestinian land, using the terrorism they caused by the occupation as an excuse not to end the occupation is a very poor excuse and a self fulfilling excuse.
Page 113 of 146
114 | 115 | 116 | 117 | 118