I think most of the Drivers would have won a WC in that car.

All Vettel had to do was beat Webber.

So Webber is now the yardstick of measurement of a great formula 1 driver?

Meanwhile Kovalainen was rubbish

Wont deny that the damnation of vettel is a little heavy, perhaps a little undue. However hobo, i cant accept that if ricciardo wins the next 4 championships that people will ribbish them. They will rubbish them if he wons them with a hugely supreme car, no equal team mate, but if he wins in competitive machinery, with a competitive team mate he will be held in the highest esteem. I always said vettel could be a great, if he can win in competitive machinery and competitive team mates. So FAR he is failing. Of he turns this around, beats ricciardo fairly and not through favouritism or reliability issues, i would happily say hes a great ( i didnt say concede, as it is not a negative for me to admit vettels great, i hope he is).

U cud flip it almost exactly with hamilton, hamilton has beaten teammates, has won in uncompetitive machinery and adverse conditions, but doesnt have the statistics to support, so i dont yet say hamilton is a great. However he has all the tools to be a great, nothing something u could say for vettel im afraid

True tho MUDD. That Redbull has been the dominant car for years, if you beat your team mate you win the title.

I would like to see Vettel in a Ferrari alongside Alonso.

For me, vettel and alonso, pacewise are quite similiar, not the outright quickest qualifiers, but very consistent. I think alonso would edge it on his peerless defensivr ability and overtaking on a par with lh

I personally think that it is difficult to choose between Alonso and Hamilton, both show brilliant race craft and outright pace.

I am one of Vettel's harshest critics but my criticism of him is always as a riposte to those who claim he is all that. I learnt it from those who bash Hamilton.

I have said on multiple occasions, if Seb can replicate what he's done in the past in uncompetitive machinery, any lingering doubts will evaporate.

What I will not take or accept is that he is better than others who have proven how good they are in uncompetitive machinery because the jury is still out.

I also struggle to understand how a racing fan can use statistics alone as a measure of the talent of a race driver. It beggars belief.

Since Seb has smashed all the records statisitically whilst only racing himself, he is greater than all of the F1 drivers who have ever existed bar Schumacher.

What a ridicuclous and pathetic assertion made even the more comical as he is being roundly beaten by a rookie team mate

And this sort if comment just about sums it up:
why bother coming back at all then if all you want to do is hurl childish infantile innuendo at the people on here who are making a genuine effort in trying to keep the forum interesting by contributing topics of interest and debating points of interest 

Cheers for that insightful comment Martial.

Please can you point out the childish infantile innuendo I was hurling about.

As YOU are one of the main protaganists of infantile abuse I expect a clear consise answer.

MUDD in answer to your question, just been really busy with a project I've been working on which was taking most of my waking hours. Then of course MA's infantile abusive comments and his inability to put together considered arguments whilst appearing totally blind to plain clear evidence placed before him.

comment by M.U.D.D (U9612)
posted 12 hours, 5 minutes ago
The following people have been world champions in the dumbed down fuel era;

Ayrton Senna
Michael Schumacher
Fernando Alonso
Kimi Raikkonen

They must all be crap I guess.

Furthermore, F1 is still start and stop, we have not eliminated pitstops just the fuel. So it is still start and stop.

In this super intelligent era, the only person who has won more races than Hamilton is Vettel.

Now we have some of the most complex cars built and we were told by numerous experts including our forum expert that the intelligent drivers will perform and the dummies will fail.

Again, Hamilton has won the most races.

I am more than happy to admit Hamilton lets his emotions get the better of him, something he admits.

I am more than happy to acknowledge he is far from the finished article.

However no one on the grid bar Alonso is on his level. Not a single driver and he has proven that throughout his career even through the lower formulae.

It is tragic that people's hatred for the guy clouds their judgement.

It is even more comical to suggest a double world champion was struggling with an oversteering Mclaren and bridgestone tyres but could have won the title in his first season with Mclaren but for his own shenanigans but a rookie, fresh into the sport was not struggling with the same oversteering mclaren, car at a level he had never driven at or tyres he had never used.

I swear the amount of absolute nonsense posted by some people on this board is unbelievable.

Yes we are all entitled to opinions but the way these opinions are formulated indicate an incredible bias or a complete lack of knowledge
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if you got anything to say manx you can say it to me mate -- there is no need to talk about me in the past tense if you dont agree with my opinions , i always give you the respect of talking to you one on one if i have anything to say to you -

however --- you need to learn a little more about F1 than just from 2007 onwards as senna never won a title in the dumbed down fuel stop formula -- in his era the drivers very much had to think for themselves all the time in the car as there was no such thing as lap by lap tuition as a certain mercedes driver now needs -

whats the matter didnt you like the fact i mentioned 07 and the oversteering mp4/22 and the bridgestone tyres that never suited alonso during 2007 -

as for only hamilton being on alonso"s level -- even a muppet like rosberg is proving to be as quick as hamilton --

Rosberg hasnt displayed the same level of racecraft as either Alonso or Hamilton imo.

His struggles in overtaking is one of the reasons I believe this.

He is quick undoubtedly but that isnt the only skill that top top drivers need.

comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 11 minutes ago
And this sort if comment just about sums it up:
why bother coming back at all then if all you want to do is hurl childish infantile innuendo at the people on here who are making a genuine effort in trying to keep the forum interesting by contributing topics of interest and debating points of interest 

Cheers for that insightful comment Martial.

Please can you point out the childish infantile innuendo I was hurling about.

As YOU are one of the main protaganists of infantile abuse I expect a clear consise answer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

yeh i will give you a very clear answer -

you have not been on the forum for nearly a month and your first post yesterday when you did come back was not about formula 1 , not about the topic in hand ,not a high guys i am back , not a happy to be back how is everybody ,etc
------ but merely unprovoked idiotic personal ignorant abuse aimed at other members --- very likely me -

---- and to be honest i found it absolutely pitiful that you could be so pathetic and childish to hurl unprovoked innuendo at other forum members that you have had no contact with for a month for no reason after a month of being away from the forum -
---------------- is that clear enough for you

It is quite clear that I have been busy in my business. I have hardly been reading the forum never mind having the time to post anything, but when I did take my time to read it I found the same typical overly biased postings. Plus nonsensical arguments over pathetic issues.
Now of you want to be paranoid and think my initial comment was aimed at you, it says a lot about you yourself. I won't block you MA but please don't bother replying to ANYTHING I post on here because I will not bother to reply to ANY of your future posts. You are not worth the effort PAL SPORT or whatever other names you call other people.

So MUDD how's the new family addition?

A fair reply, BWFCCLEGG. I may disagree but I respect your opinion. It's when people try to claim that Hamilton is a true great but that Vettel isn't that I find it farcical. At least you're consistent in saying neither are true greats - yet.

I do find it unfair when people apply rules to Vettel, but not Hamilton. "Never winning a title with a competitive team-mate" is the most obvious one.
I'd argue Kovalainen was the worst team-mate to a Champion since Schumacher in '94 (Jos Verstappen and some Finnish no-mark whom I can't quite remember). Not that I think that diminishes either Schumacher or Hamilton's titles.

comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 5 minutes ago
It is quite clear that I have been busy in my business. I have hardly been reading the forum never mind having the time to post anything, but when I did take my time to read it I found the same typical overly biased postings. Plus nonsensical arguments over pathetic issues.
Now of you want to be paranoid and think my initial comment was aimed at you, it says a lot about you yourself. I won't block you MA but please don't bother replying to ANYTHING I post on here because I will not bother to reply to ANY of your future posts. You are not worth the effort PAL SPORT or whatever other names you call other people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

you could have at the very least not been so pig ignorant and rude with your first post which was no doubt aimed at me when you did come back
----------- how do you honestly expect people to respond to you when you act in such a pig ignorant fashion with your first post after a month ?

comment by Drunken Hobo (U7360)
posted 9 minutes ago
A fair reply, BWFCCLEGG. I may disagree but I respect your opinion. It's when people try to claim that Hamilton is a true great but that Vettel isn't that I find it farcical. At least you're consistent in saying neither are true greats - yet.

I do find it unfair when people apply rules to Vettel, but not Hamilton. "Never winning a title with a competitive team-mate" is the most obvious one.
I'd argue Kovalainen was the worst team-mate to a Champion since Schumacher in '94 (Jos Verstappen and some Finnish no-mark whom I can't quite remember). Not that I think that diminishes either Schumacher or Hamilton's titles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

looking at the wider picture hobo from my experiance there is usually a reason why a driver is struggling to adapt to new rules -
----------- from what i gather vettel had such a unique style with the blown diffuser and the way he used the brakes in those years it has taken him longer to adapt his style around the new cars and the different way of applying the brakes
--------- and of course his non stop constant breakdowns and malfunctions have done nothing but delay the speed of the process of adapting --

Sid, I would agree with your comment about NR. He is undoubtedly fast in this Mercedes. However when he was in a less competitive car he was IMHO average.
He also appears to be a thou

..... appears to be a thoroughly nice person. He us however now starting to display a ruthless streak. What with his deliberate antics in Monaco, and now the overtaking move that would he knew would never be successful, yet refused to back out of.
With the risk of bringing another poster into the argument, I notice TW at first openly criticised NR but now seems to be backing off a bit, which makes me think that NR has his backing.

*he IS however
*move that he knew

comment by Sid (U1868)
posted 1 hour ago
Rosberg hasnt displayed the same level of racecraft as either Alonso or Hamilton imo.

His struggles in overtaking is one of the reasons I believe this.

He is quick undoubtedly but that isnt the only skill that top top drivers need.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

you are right about alonso sid -- he is in a class of one out of the current generation and is the closest thing i have seen to alain prost since the frenchman retired after 1993 -
---- not sure about rosberg --- from what i have seen when he has a chance to overtake he can be quite clinical in doing it certainly on par with anybody else out there barring alonso -

must admit i am liking rosbergs ruthless streak which from the outside looks as if this is starting to unravel hamilton --

martial artist (U9033)

I know that you like to be humorous and play games for a laugh. You would star at the Edinburgh festival.

I particularly enjoyed your article asking why Wayne Rooney was wearing a bandage on his head.

5 star for me.

The replies you got were funnier than your article. But like a true comic professional you succeeded in convincing everyone that you were utterly clueless.

Keep up the good work.

Drunken Hobo could run your fan club for you. He might, at a pinch, write your script for you.

comment by WTCBU (U13662)
posted 3 minutes ago
martial artist (U9033)

I know that you like to be humorous and play games for a laugh. You would star at the Edinburgh festival.

I particularly enjoyed your article asking why Wayne Rooney was wearing a bandage on his head.

5 star for me.

The replies you got were funnier than your article. But like a true comic professional you succeeded in convincing everyone that you were utterly clueless.

Keep up the good work.

Drunken Hobo could run your fan club for you. He might, at a pinch, write your script for you.


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you will have to run that little lot by me again wt

not sure if i can decipher whatever point it is you are trying to make with me -
----------- i take it there is a point in there somewhere for me to decipher