I thought including bergkamp and terry was wrong. I would have also have swapped Casillas with the Italian brad friedal

Might only have been in there to get some Gooner bites, but I'm of the opinion Bergkamp always was and still is very heavily overrated in the UK.

And don't get me started on the Busby Babes.

I do think he is slightly, due to a lot of people thinking he was more important than Henry.

I can't believe on another thread people were arguing RVN is a more complete forward than Henry. Utd fans have to have the best in every position.

If the Mourinho cult at Madrid is as bad as Chelsea's lord help us.

Edin, to be fair it was only one guy wasn't it? And he was shot down by most United fans.

In terms of RVN and Henry, I think the only thing you'll him from a majority is that RVN was a better finisher and cf in the traditional sense, i.e., as a target man or penalty box striker.

As a player it's no contest, however.

If the Mourinho cult at Madrid is as bad as Chelsea's lord help us.
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Nowhere near as sizeable, but that might just make the members of the cult that much more fanatic. Bet most of them are neonazis too.

I dunno Darren, I remember a few saying that he was a better striker, Henry was more able to play on the wing which made him better. But RVN was more complete, was odd.

Btw, I almost responded to some of the King criticism. Comparing him to Wes Brown no way.

Yeah in the sense I'm talking about as a cf. That's always been the argument because you just can't argue he's a better player.

The Brown comparison is a fair one actually. Brown is crap now but when he first broke through at United he was excellent, injuries had a bad affect on his career. Fergie always considered him one of the most naturally talented defenders he'd worked with, and when you consider the defenders Fergie has coached that's high praise.

But as I said, the difference is that Brown isn't hyped up nearly as much as King despite being as talented, if not more so, and actually achieving more in his career.

But I guess it's because one played for United where he was expected to meet higher standards than he did whereas one stood out at a poor Spurs team as he was the only competent defender.

I've always stood by this with King, very good defender when at his best but massively overrated based on the myth that injuries were the only thing stopping him becoming a contemporary of England's best, let alone the world's. He just wasn't in the class of the likes of Rio, Sol and Terry.

Woodgate

I do agree that Wes Brown was a good player, and has become underrated. I don't think he was as good as King.

Not that I rate King as highly as most Spurs fans do, I think the 'injuries stopping him' argument is stupid as it is purely hypothetical. If I had pursued a career in football, I would be the best in the world.

However, he was an excellent defender and it was hugely impressive that he wouldn't train and then be match ready at the weekend. His performance vs Suarez when we beat Liverpool 2-0 at Anfield is one of the best defensive performances I have ever seen.

I never rated Woodgate though, some Spurs fans think of him as WC but he was pretty average. Dunno how he went to RM.

I don't think there was much between them, to be honest, Edin. Think they'd have made a good partnership as well.

Fair comments on the last two paragraphs. It is very impressive he didn't train and still turned out for Spurs.

Woodgate was a very good defender, I thought, but like Brown and King wasn't able to show it on a consistent basis due to injuries.

Incredible to think really. Woodgate, King and Brown were always injured but it didn't matter for England because we had Campbell, Terry and Rio.

The best English cb's now are probably Smalling and Cahill.

My most overrated XI:

Italian Friedal
Lahm T.Silva Woodgate Carlos
Cantona Iniesta Schweinsteiger Zidane
Gerrard
Klose

What I thought was ridiculous is that Terry and Rio on paper should have been an outstanding partnership. Yet were so poor.

I rate Terry really highly, but he was beyond pathetic at international level. The 4-1 against Germany may have been the worst CB partnership I have ever seen (Upton & Terry).

Upson * even

Was laughing to hard at the thought that he actually player in a World Cup ffs

Incredible to think really. Woodgate, King and Brown were always injured but it didn't matter for England because we had Campbell, Terry and Rio.
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You were still crap though.

Not a single Arsenal player?

See Perez's comments on Arab's article? Sometimes I can't help but love the man. Biggest wum in sport.

What? Terry and Rio played well together.

Rio and Sol was our best partnership, though.

ioag We were still better than you.

That Perez comment

I was always a little bit disappointed with Rio and Terry, Darren. That back four of:

Nev Terry Rio Cole

Should have been one of the best in the world, but it wasn't. Possibly because England managers have been so poor.

They were good. England usually had one of the best defences at international tournaments, we rarely got a thumping, we kept things tight. It was usually up the other end we disappointed.

I think some people rewrite history a bit with regard to the 'golden generation'. They were actually a good international team. Yeah they didn't win anything or get past the quarters but it's not as if we were completely outclassed by the teams we went out to, they were small margins, and could have gone either way.

I think the disappointment of it all has led to some to consider them shiiiit and didn't perform at all. We did ok, just not as good as we maybe could have given some of the individual quality we had.

Yeah maybe you are right, I guess a lot of the worst performances I am thinking of had one of Terry/Rio missing.

And the fact that we had a midfield of Lamps/Gerrard which is just about as unbalanced as you can get.

Top or flop. No point in middling.

Or to put it more accurately, Carragher was playing.

Yeah that was the problem with England. But I think what is often forgotten is that even though it wasn't balanced the individual quality of the players still allowed us to be somewhat competitive - unlike Henderson and Gerrard - they just never played at the same level they did for their clubs.

ioag

Serious question, from an outside what do you make of England from 02-06 in tournaments? Would you agree with what I've said or consider them a very average international team like so many in England seem to nowadays?

I find it funny people complain about them being so hyped up, yet are upset they didn't achieve anything. If they were an average side then getting to three quarter finals, only to be narrowly defeated by a strong Brazil and Portugal side - one of which were champions, the another being hosts and reaching the final - then they did bloody well, to be honest.

Think Portugal '04 was yours to lose, tbh. I also think the players possibly felt that too and that not winning it might have broken quite a few players' confidence of England succeeding on the int'l stage.

Brazil won with a Dinho fluke