comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 2 hours, 37 minutes ago
Pob - exactly right, hamilton did admit fault immediately. Martial seems to believe nico was controlling the race n could have gone quicker and won the race regardless (despite providing zero evidence apart from an article quoting nico rosberg - superb evidence u will agree)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
in reality rosberg did not allow lewis to get close enough to him to challenge and for me had him covered for the whole race -
in the final stint / 20 laps lewis locked up a number of times and looked ragged at times and was never allowed to be in a position to make a pass or to be honest was never quick enough to make a pass and hence never ever looked like even making a pass -
---------- i call that controlling the race by rosberg
Only one person answered the question I asked, (ty MUDD). What do either of you think P.O.B or MA?
in reality rosberg did not allow lewis to get close enough to him to challenge and for me had him covered for the whole race
-----------------------------
within half a second
Can you define what you would see as close enough to pass?
Question to all.
IF Hamilton hadn't spun and had taken the lead, does anyone think Rosberg would have been able to keep in touch with Hamilton and passed him.
Conjecture I know but your opinions
-------------------------------
ill ansa you GC old buddy old pal!
i think - Lewis as a driver is quicker than nico. This is relevant in my point because i believe, had Lewis got a ahead, he would have pulled a gap to Nico, for the simple fact he is a quicker driver. This would have been at the sacrifice of his tyres - which in previous years, would have seen Nico claw back the gap, and perhaps take lewis back.
This year however, the tyres dont seem to have as devastating of a cliff. So i believe Lewis can make a big gap, then manage the gap on scrubbed tyres by being ultimately the better driver.
I come to this conclusion as this year, lewis has appeared to be better on tyres, better on fuel, quicker certainly in the race, and arguably as quick as nico in qualifying. He has also shown better racecraft with overtaking and defending.
i think what the issue is here, on this board in particular is. Those who perceived to be hamilton fans, admit to his faults and also praise other drivers for there great efforts. Nico, has been pretty much faultless this season, i did rate him highly before, but he has gone up massively in my book into the second tier of the current crop.
Others on this board will not ever praise hamilton, they will never admit how good he is.
Picture this - Nico has had an almost faultless season. Lewis has made some errors of his own and suffered some bad reliability - yet still leads the driver who is very quick, very consistent and an all round very good driver. This just emphasises how good lewis is, despite the rollercoaster, despite the bad luck, he is still there, plugging away, driving fantastically, with maturity, with pace. A mark of a peoples champion, flawed, but brilliant. Reminds me of a certain brazilian fella, rhymes with Tenor.
Peoples champions are always remembered fondly by the people. The real lifeblood of the sport.
This is why, i rate Senna and lewis as greater than a Schumacher and Vettel.
Thats an interesting question. 2 teams, same cars. Lewis and Senna in one team, Schuey and Vett in the other. Who wins...You decide!
To answer your question more simply GC - Would rosberg have caught lewis - would he bo1/ocks!
comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 20 hours, 4 minutes ago
Only one person answered the question I asked, (ty MUDD). What do either of you think P.O.B or MA?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its just about impossible to give a proper answer with a hypothetical scenario such as yours GC ,
i do believe tyres played a big part in sundays race and in the way rosberg drove his race at the front -
had the roles been reversed -- lets not forget it was a race rosberg had to win at all costs (and i dont use the words at all costs lightly ) to keep his championship chances alive , a 2nd place and he was just about dead in the water ,
i personally think he would of kept up with hamilton and very likely there would have been contact of some sort as rosberg would have been desperate to get by -
its all hypothetical but i suspect it would have ended in tears one way or the other --
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 8 hours, 13 minutes ago
in reality rosberg did not allow lewis to get close enough to him to challenge and for me had him covered for the whole race
-----------------------------
within half a second
Can you define what you would see as close enough to pass?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not quite sure what you want me to say BW , when lewis was behind rosberg he never looked like he had the pace to make a pass , if he did he would have tried something in the final stint -
i am no particular fan of rosberg but i think on this occasion he got his tactics just about spot on all race -
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
---
I think you are being nfair to Schumacher trying to compare the frad Vettel to him. Schumi was no sloch and could win in a car not the fastest on the grid, was a qali machine and had raw speed and technical ability. Mentally he was tougher than Senna and Lewis.
In the same car over the course of a season with no reliability issues, my money would be on him for the championship. He was the complete package
MA, interesting to see you think that in this hypothetical situation, Rosberg in his desperation to win may have come into contact with Hamilton.
How then do you see the final race panning out?
Say Rosberg takes the lead, and Hamilton makes a similar 'naïve manoeuvre' as you referred to it, as Rosberg made at Spa, which puts Rosberg out of the race. Hamilton ends up as WDC.
Or alternatively Hamilton takes the lead and Rosberg makes the exact same move as he did at Spa, again putting Hamilton out of the race. Rosberg finishes high enough to win WDC 5th or higher.
If either of the above happens, would you consider the winner had done so in a fair manner or would you consider either of them had won by 'cheating'?
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 10 hours, 54 minutes ago
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 8 hours, 13 minutes ago
in reality rosberg did not allow lewis to get close enough to him to challenge and for me had him covered for the whole race
-----------------------------
within half a second
Can you define what you would see as close enough to pass?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not quite sure what you want me to say BW , when lewis was behind rosberg he never looked like he had the pace to make a pass , if he did he would have tried something in the final stint -
i am no particular fan of rosberg but i think on this occasion he got his tactics just about spot on all race -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ur mossing the point. U keep referring to rosberg controlling the gap, and not letting lewis close enough to make a pass.
I would say half a second is no control, and most certaibly close enoigh to make a pass. It seemed the main issue for lewis was the tracks characteristics. Sector 2 being notoriously difficult to pass, and follow, and the sector 1-3 not really long enough to get a good drs pass.
comment by M.U.D.D - Luke Shaw makes me throb with desire (U9612)
posted 10 hours, 28 minutes ago
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
---
I think you are being nfair to Schumacher trying to compare the frad Vettel to him. Schumi was no sloch and could win in a car not the fastest on the grid, was a qali machine and had raw speed and technical ability. Mentally he was tougher than Senna and Lewis.
In the same car over the course of a season with no reliability issues, my money would be on him for the championship. He was the complete package
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ots not.ability i mean mudd. Its there charisma. O think schuey wud win with dishonour, he just eants to win. I think lewis in particular wants to win, n win with honour
comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 21 hours, 26 minutes ago
MA, interesting to see you think that in this hypothetical situation, Rosberg in his desperation to win may have come into contact with Hamilton.
How then do you see the final race panning out?
Say Rosberg takes the lead, and Hamilton makes a similar 'naïve manoeuvre' as you referred to it, as Rosberg made at Spa, which puts Rosberg out of the race. Hamilton ends up as WDC.
Or alternatively Hamilton takes the lead and Rosberg makes the exact same move as he did at Spa, again putting Hamilton out of the race. Rosberg finishes high enough to win WDC 5th or higher.
If either of the above happens, would you consider the winner had done so in a fair manner or would you consider either of them had won by 'cheating'?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
to be honest i think it might be a boring race GC as lewis only needs a 2nd place to sew up the championship ,
---------- i suspect rosberg will scuttle off down the road at a fair lick and hamilton will just nurse his car to the 2nd place he needs --
----- hamiltons only problem might be bottas or massa if he takes it to easy --
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 13 hours, 41 minutes ago
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 10 hours, 54 minutes ago
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 8 hours, 13 minutes ago
in reality rosberg did not allow lewis to get close enough to him to challenge and for me had him covered for the whole race
-----------------------------
within half a second
Can you define what you would see as close enough to pass?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not quite sure what you want me to say BW , when lewis was behind rosberg he never looked like he had the pace to make a pass , if he did he would have tried something in the final stint -
i am no particular fan of rosberg but i think on this occasion he got his tactics just about spot on all race -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ur mossing the point. U keep referring to rosberg controlling the gap, and not letting lewis close enough to make a pass.
I would say half a second is no control, and most certaibly close enoigh to make a pass. It seemed the main issue for lewis was the tracks characteristics. Sector 2 being notoriously difficult to pass, and follow, and the sector 1-3 not really long enough to get a good drs pass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
thing was lewis never even made one attempt at a pass on rosberg throut the race and lewis supposedly is one of the best around at negotiating a pass-
you also have to watch the last twenty laps , lewis locked up a few times which tells me he was strugging to keep up with rosberg let alone pass him ,rosberg craftily threw in the occasional fastest lap in that stint as and when he needed it -
No f1 driver in the right mind 'allows' a rival to get within half a second
Il leave u to ur absurd opinion
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 21 minutes ago
No f1 driver in the right mind 'allows' a rival to get within half a second
Il leave u to ur absurd opinion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they do if they are playing a tactical game with the tyres and know they have the following drivers every move covered -
-------- i suspect rosberg will scuttle off down the road at a fair lick and hamilton will just nurse his car to the 2nd place he needs --
I could possibly agree if Rosberg had better race pace than Hamilton. So far this season I would have to that hasn't been the case.
And why would he do that if he knew he could control the race allowing Hamilton to within half a second, putting in the odd fastest lap..... like he did in Brazil?
Any driver wanting to control the race would try to do so by pulling away to a reasonable distance of at least a couple of seconds, possibly more to allow for unforced errors.....
comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 2 hours, 59 minutes ago
-------- i suspect rosberg will scuttle off down the road at a fair lick and hamilton will just nurse his car to the 2nd place he needs --
I could possibly agree if Rosberg had better race pace than Hamilton. So far this season I would have to that hasn't been the case.
And why would he do that if he knew he could control the race allowing Hamilton to within half a second, putting in the odd fastest lap..... like he did in Brazil?
Any driver wanting to control the race would try to do so by pulling away to a reasonable distance of at least a couple of seconds, possibly more to allow for unforced errors.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not that it matters but i am not quite sure where this half a second comes from as rosberg maintained the gap of inbetween 1 -2 secs in the final stint
for what its worth i thought rosberg got his tactics spot on for the race considering the tyres were so marginal , lets have it right GC hamilton never had a sniff of a pass all race -
--------- for me i cant fault rosberg for those tactics --
The point I was making though MA, is if he was able to control the race in Brazil with a half or 1-2 second gap as you claim, why would he need to scuttle off down the road at a fair lick in Abu Dhabi?
He hasn't managed to do that this season with Hamilton following. Why would it be any different thus time?
comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 25 seconds ago
The point I was making though MA, is if he was able to control the race in Brazil with a half or 1-2 second gap as you claim, why would he need to scuttle off down the road at a fair lick in Abu Dhabi?
He hasn't managed to do that this season with Hamilton following. Why would it be any different thus time?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i suspect that hamilton wont try and fight rosberg which in effect will leave rosberg to do what he wants in the race -
""Mentally he was tougher than Senna and Lewis."" He was put in a virtually unassailable position so could afford to take it "relatively" easy. Unlike Hamilton he never had to worry about a team mate. I recall an Eddie Irvine interview in Japan, he was roundly defeating Schumacher as Hill had done at Suzuka in 1994. When asked in the post race interview, "Did you think you were going to win?" he replied, "no, I was just waiting for the phone call".
I think it is fair to say that under pressure Schumacher would frequently crumble. Monaco 2006, Barrichello Hungary 2010, Hill Adalaide 1994, Jerez Villeneuve 1995... it's an impressive list, but yes, give him a good car, a tyre company working soley for him, a contract that stated team-mates would be his skivvies, he was strong.
Interestingly everybody remembers Barcelona 1996, everybody forgets Monaco the same year.
But all drivers make mistakes, personally I like to see it, it shows they are trying hard.
I'll never forget Hamilton, Lesmo's, Monza 2009, wow!!
Now THAT was a driver on the limit, as was Interlagos 2014. For me that is the definition of a "great". A driver who drives on the limit and goes over it occasionally but not very often. He also doesn't drive into the opposition deliberately. A fact I rate highly in what is supposed to still be a sport.
We all measure these things differently.
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 12 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 2 hours, 59 minutes ago
-------- i suspect rosberg will scuttle off down the road at a fair lick and hamilton will just nurse his car to the 2nd place he needs --
I could possibly agree if Rosberg had better race pace than Hamilton. So far this season I would have to that hasn't been the case.
And why would he do that if he knew he could control the race allowing Hamilton to within half a second, putting in the odd fastest lap..... like he did in Brazil?
Any driver wanting to control the race would try to do so by pulling away to a reasonable distance of at least a couple of seconds, possibly more to allow for unforced errors.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not that it matters but i am not quite sure where this half a second comes from as rosberg maintained the gap of inbetween 1 -2 secs in the final stint
for what its worth i thought rosberg got his tactics spot on for the race considering the tyres were so marginal , lets have it right GC hamilton never had a sniff of a pass all race -
--------- for me i cant fault rosberg for those tactics --
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See martial that throws ur whole opinion into disrepute, hamilton was within half a second to about 0.8. Hence why his drs was open. That is just a fact
Just some.excerpts of text commentary - 1-2 seconds? R.u serious
Lap 56: Raikkonen despite his earlier pit stop woes is back in fifth, although he's likely to stop again and is four secs off Hulkenberg in fourth. The gap between the front two is just 0.419secs
Lap 65: Grosjean becomes the second retirement of the day as he takes up residence on the side of the track. Hamilton slices the lead down to half a second again
Lap 69: Hamilton appears to back off again as the gap stretches out to 0.7secs. The only way Hamilton's going to clinch victory here is if Rosberg slips up
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 12 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 2 hours, 59 minutes ago
-------- i suspect rosberg will scuttle off down the road at a fair lick and hamilton will just nurse his car to the 2nd place he needs --
I could possibly agree if Rosberg had better race pace than Hamilton. So far this season I would have to that hasn't been the case.
And why would he do that if he knew he could control the race allowing Hamilton to within half a second, putting in the odd fastest lap..... like he did in Brazil?
Any driver wanting to control the race would try to do so by pulling away to a reasonable distance of at least a couple of seconds, possibly more to allow for unforced errors.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not that it matters but i am not quite sure where this half a second comes from as rosberg maintained the gap of inbetween 1 -2 secs in the final stint
for what its worth i thought rosberg got his tactics spot on for the race considering the tyres were so marginal , lets have it right GC hamilton never had a sniff of a pass all race -
--------- for me i cant fault rosberg for those tactics --
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See martial that throws ur whole opinion into disrepute, hamilton was within half a second to about 0.8. Hence why his drs was open. That is just a fact
----------------------------------------------------------------------
whatever the gap at any given time was BW, be it 7/10ths , 1 sec , 1.5 sec , whatever , it didnt really make alot of difference as it was clear that rosberg had hamilton and the race under control ,
------- if rosberg had not had the race under control lewis would have been all over his gearbox trying dummies , little feints , whatever -
------------- fraid to say that just was not the case as he did nothing except lock up and look at the back of rosberg"s head for 71 laps
------------- sorry BW i have to call it as i saw it mate
Well u called it a gap of 1-2 seconds, it was nearer half a second. So 'as u see it' is dubious at best.
There is no factual evidence to.support that lewis attempted a pass, so u r correct, and i havent argued that point. The point i habe argued, with facts and common consensus is the notiom that rosberg was on control. That is far away from the truth.
In reality, it appeared lewis to be quicker on the track and the type of track not allowing a pass, and in particular sector 2 being so detrimental aerodynamically to a followong car. Those are the facts and educated opinion. Your opinion, although harmless has again been proven to be strewn with conjecture, misrepresentation and illusion of bias towards a driver you have demonstrated a real dislike for. This id why i, and others find ur opinions worthless. Sorry MA
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 3 minutes ago
Well u called it a gap of 1-2 seconds, it was nearer half a second. So 'as u see it' is dubious at best.
There is no factual evidence to.support that lewis attempted a pass, so u r correct, and i havent argued that point. The point i habe argued, with facts and common consensus is the notiom that rosberg was on control. That is far away from the truth.
In reality, it appeared lewis to be quicker on the track and the type of track not allowing a pass, and in particular sector 2 being so detrimental aerodynamically to a followong car. Those are the facts and educated opinion. Your opinion, although harmless has again been proven to be strewn with conjecture, misrepresentation and illusion of bias towards a driver you have demonstrated a real dislike for. This id why i, and others find ur opinions worthless. Sorry MA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
come on now BW lets not fall out just because we dont agree ,
--------- as i said in the final stint / 20 laps / lewis looked quite ragged at times and locked up a few times so he was obviously trying to keep in touch with rosberg to make a pass but never actually got close enough to actually even attempt a pass -
--------- sorry BW from my experience of watching F1 since the mid 80s i can tell when a driver has the number of another driver and rosbergs tactics for me were spot on for the race -
---------- sorry mate i am only calling it as i saw it --
F1 Quiz - what have all the following comments got in common?
Lewis locked up many times.
2013 McLaren car will be the fastest.
Ferrari will not employ Kimi.
Monaco is low downforce.
Lewis is finished because McLaren won't have the superior Mercedes engine.
Lewis is finished because he has the inferior Mercedes engine.
Neither NR or LH are good enough to win the races that they won.
You cannot comment on a driver that you did not see.
John Surtees was a coward.
Jim Clark had wims.
Rotating a corner is spinning the car 360 degrees.
Sign in if you want to comment
who spotted that MB cost Hamilton the race?
Page 3 of 6
6
posted on 12/11/14
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 2 hours, 37 minutes ago
Pob - exactly right, hamilton did admit fault immediately. Martial seems to believe nico was controlling the race n could have gone quicker and won the race regardless (despite providing zero evidence apart from an article quoting nico rosberg - superb evidence u will agree)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
in reality rosberg did not allow lewis to get close enough to him to challenge and for me had him covered for the whole race -
in the final stint / 20 laps lewis locked up a number of times and looked ragged at times and was never allowed to be in a position to make a pass or to be honest was never quick enough to make a pass and hence never ever looked like even making a pass -
---------- i call that controlling the race by rosberg
posted on 13/11/14
Only one person answered the question I asked, (ty MUDD). What do either of you think P.O.B or MA?
posted on 13/11/14
in reality rosberg did not allow lewis to get close enough to him to challenge and for me had him covered for the whole race
-----------------------------
within half a second
Can you define what you would see as close enough to pass?
posted on 13/11/14
Question to all.
IF Hamilton hadn't spun and had taken the lead, does anyone think Rosberg would have been able to keep in touch with Hamilton and passed him.
Conjecture I know but your opinions
-------------------------------
ill ansa you GC old buddy old pal!
i think - Lewis as a driver is quicker than nico. This is relevant in my point because i believe, had Lewis got a ahead, he would have pulled a gap to Nico, for the simple fact he is a quicker driver. This would have been at the sacrifice of his tyres - which in previous years, would have seen Nico claw back the gap, and perhaps take lewis back.
This year however, the tyres dont seem to have as devastating of a cliff. So i believe Lewis can make a big gap, then manage the gap on scrubbed tyres by being ultimately the better driver.
I come to this conclusion as this year, lewis has appeared to be better on tyres, better on fuel, quicker certainly in the race, and arguably as quick as nico in qualifying. He has also shown better racecraft with overtaking and defending.
i think what the issue is here, on this board in particular is. Those who perceived to be hamilton fans, admit to his faults and also praise other drivers for there great efforts. Nico, has been pretty much faultless this season, i did rate him highly before, but he has gone up massively in my book into the second tier of the current crop.
Others on this board will not ever praise hamilton, they will never admit how good he is.
Picture this - Nico has had an almost faultless season. Lewis has made some errors of his own and suffered some bad reliability - yet still leads the driver who is very quick, very consistent and an all round very good driver. This just emphasises how good lewis is, despite the rollercoaster, despite the bad luck, he is still there, plugging away, driving fantastically, with maturity, with pace. A mark of a peoples champion, flawed, but brilliant. Reminds me of a certain brazilian fella, rhymes with Tenor.
Peoples champions are always remembered fondly by the people. The real lifeblood of the sport.
This is why, i rate Senna and lewis as greater than a Schumacher and Vettel.
Thats an interesting question. 2 teams, same cars. Lewis and Senna in one team, Schuey and Vett in the other. Who wins...You decide!
To answer your question more simply GC - Would rosberg have caught lewis - would he bo1/ocks!
posted on 13/11/14
comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 20 hours, 4 minutes ago
Only one person answered the question I asked, (ty MUDD). What do either of you think P.O.B or MA?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its just about impossible to give a proper answer with a hypothetical scenario such as yours GC ,
i do believe tyres played a big part in sundays race and in the way rosberg drove his race at the front -
had the roles been reversed -- lets not forget it was a race rosberg had to win at all costs (and i dont use the words at all costs lightly ) to keep his championship chances alive , a 2nd place and he was just about dead in the water ,
i personally think he would of kept up with hamilton and very likely there would have been contact of some sort as rosberg would have been desperate to get by -
its all hypothetical but i suspect it would have ended in tears one way or the other --
posted on 13/11/14
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 8 hours, 13 minutes ago
in reality rosberg did not allow lewis to get close enough to him to challenge and for me had him covered for the whole race
-----------------------------
within half a second
Can you define what you would see as close enough to pass?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not quite sure what you want me to say BW , when lewis was behind rosberg he never looked like he had the pace to make a pass , if he did he would have tried something in the final stint -
i am no particular fan of rosberg but i think on this occasion he got his tactics just about spot on all race -
posted on 13/11/14
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
---
I think you are being nfair to Schumacher trying to compare the frad Vettel to him. Schumi was no sloch and could win in a car not the fastest on the grid, was a qali machine and had raw speed and technical ability. Mentally he was tougher than Senna and Lewis.
In the same car over the course of a season with no reliability issues, my money would be on him for the championship. He was the complete package
posted on 13/11/14
MA, interesting to see you think that in this hypothetical situation, Rosberg in his desperation to win may have come into contact with Hamilton.
How then do you see the final race panning out?
Say Rosberg takes the lead, and Hamilton makes a similar 'naïve manoeuvre' as you referred to it, as Rosberg made at Spa, which puts Rosberg out of the race. Hamilton ends up as WDC.
Or alternatively Hamilton takes the lead and Rosberg makes the exact same move as he did at Spa, again putting Hamilton out of the race. Rosberg finishes high enough to win WDC 5th or higher.
If either of the above happens, would you consider the winner had done so in a fair manner or would you consider either of them had won by 'cheating'?
posted on 14/11/14
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 10 hours, 54 minutes ago
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 8 hours, 13 minutes ago
in reality rosberg did not allow lewis to get close enough to him to challenge and for me had him covered for the whole race
-----------------------------
within half a second
Can you define what you would see as close enough to pass?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not quite sure what you want me to say BW , when lewis was behind rosberg he never looked like he had the pace to make a pass , if he did he would have tried something in the final stint -
i am no particular fan of rosberg but i think on this occasion he got his tactics just about spot on all race -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ur mossing the point. U keep referring to rosberg controlling the gap, and not letting lewis close enough to make a pass.
I would say half a second is no control, and most certaibly close enoigh to make a pass. It seemed the main issue for lewis was the tracks characteristics. Sector 2 being notoriously difficult to pass, and follow, and the sector 1-3 not really long enough to get a good drs pass.
posted on 14/11/14
comment by M.U.D.D - Luke Shaw makes me throb with desire (U9612)
posted 10 hours, 28 minutes ago
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
---
I think you are being nfair to Schumacher trying to compare the frad Vettel to him. Schumi was no sloch and could win in a car not the fastest on the grid, was a qali machine and had raw speed and technical ability. Mentally he was tougher than Senna and Lewis.
In the same car over the course of a season with no reliability issues, my money would be on him for the championship. He was the complete package
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ots not.ability i mean mudd. Its there charisma. O think schuey wud win with dishonour, he just eants to win. I think lewis in particular wants to win, n win with honour
posted on 14/11/14
comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 21 hours, 26 minutes ago
MA, interesting to see you think that in this hypothetical situation, Rosberg in his desperation to win may have come into contact with Hamilton.
How then do you see the final race panning out?
Say Rosberg takes the lead, and Hamilton makes a similar 'naïve manoeuvre' as you referred to it, as Rosberg made at Spa, which puts Rosberg out of the race. Hamilton ends up as WDC.
Or alternatively Hamilton takes the lead and Rosberg makes the exact same move as he did at Spa, again putting Hamilton out of the race. Rosberg finishes high enough to win WDC 5th or higher.
If either of the above happens, would you consider the winner had done so in a fair manner or would you consider either of them had won by 'cheating'?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
to be honest i think it might be a boring race GC as lewis only needs a 2nd place to sew up the championship ,
---------- i suspect rosberg will scuttle off down the road at a fair lick and hamilton will just nurse his car to the 2nd place he needs --
----- hamiltons only problem might be bottas or massa if he takes it to easy --
posted on 14/11/14
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 13 hours, 41 minutes ago
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 10 hours, 54 minutes ago
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 8 hours, 13 minutes ago
in reality rosberg did not allow lewis to get close enough to him to challenge and for me had him covered for the whole race
-----------------------------
within half a second
Can you define what you would see as close enough to pass?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not quite sure what you want me to say BW , when lewis was behind rosberg he never looked like he had the pace to make a pass , if he did he would have tried something in the final stint -
i am no particular fan of rosberg but i think on this occasion he got his tactics just about spot on all race -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ur mossing the point. U keep referring to rosberg controlling the gap, and not letting lewis close enough to make a pass.
I would say half a second is no control, and most certaibly close enoigh to make a pass. It seemed the main issue for lewis was the tracks characteristics. Sector 2 being notoriously difficult to pass, and follow, and the sector 1-3 not really long enough to get a good drs pass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
thing was lewis never even made one attempt at a pass on rosberg throut the race and lewis supposedly is one of the best around at negotiating a pass-
you also have to watch the last twenty laps , lewis locked up a few times which tells me he was strugging to keep up with rosberg let alone pass him ,rosberg craftily threw in the occasional fastest lap in that stint as and when he needed it -
posted on 14/11/14
No f1 driver in the right mind 'allows' a rival to get within half a second
Il leave u to ur absurd opinion
posted on 14/11/14
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 21 minutes ago
No f1 driver in the right mind 'allows' a rival to get within half a second
Il leave u to ur absurd opinion
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they do if they are playing a tactical game with the tyres and know they have the following drivers every move covered -
posted on 14/11/14
-------- i suspect rosberg will scuttle off down the road at a fair lick and hamilton will just nurse his car to the 2nd place he needs --
I could possibly agree if Rosberg had better race pace than Hamilton. So far this season I would have to that hasn't been the case.
And why would he do that if he knew he could control the race allowing Hamilton to within half a second, putting in the odd fastest lap..... like he did in Brazil?
Any driver wanting to control the race would try to do so by pulling away to a reasonable distance of at least a couple of seconds, possibly more to allow for unforced errors.....
posted on 15/11/14
comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 2 hours, 59 minutes ago
-------- i suspect rosberg will scuttle off down the road at a fair lick and hamilton will just nurse his car to the 2nd place he needs --
I could possibly agree if Rosberg had better race pace than Hamilton. So far this season I would have to that hasn't been the case.
And why would he do that if he knew he could control the race allowing Hamilton to within half a second, putting in the odd fastest lap..... like he did in Brazil?
Any driver wanting to control the race would try to do so by pulling away to a reasonable distance of at least a couple of seconds, possibly more to allow for unforced errors.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not that it matters but i am not quite sure where this half a second comes from as rosberg maintained the gap of inbetween 1 -2 secs in the final stint
for what its worth i thought rosberg got his tactics spot on for the race considering the tyres were so marginal , lets have it right GC hamilton never had a sniff of a pass all race -
--------- for me i cant fault rosberg for those tactics --
posted on 15/11/14
The point I was making though MA, is if he was able to control the race in Brazil with a half or 1-2 second gap as you claim, why would he need to scuttle off down the road at a fair lick in Abu Dhabi?
He hasn't managed to do that this season with Hamilton following. Why would it be any different thus time?
posted on 15/11/14
comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 25 seconds ago
The point I was making though MA, is if he was able to control the race in Brazil with a half or 1-2 second gap as you claim, why would he need to scuttle off down the road at a fair lick in Abu Dhabi?
He hasn't managed to do that this season with Hamilton following. Why would it be any different thus time?
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i suspect that hamilton wont try and fight rosberg which in effect will leave rosberg to do what he wants in the race -
posted on 15/11/14
""Mentally he was tougher than Senna and Lewis."" He was put in a virtually unassailable position so could afford to take it "relatively" easy. Unlike Hamilton he never had to worry about a team mate. I recall an Eddie Irvine interview in Japan, he was roundly defeating Schumacher as Hill had done at Suzuka in 1994. When asked in the post race interview, "Did you think you were going to win?" he replied, "no, I was just waiting for the phone call".
I think it is fair to say that under pressure Schumacher would frequently crumble. Monaco 2006, Barrichello Hungary 2010, Hill Adalaide 1994, Jerez Villeneuve 1995... it's an impressive list, but yes, give him a good car, a tyre company working soley for him, a contract that stated team-mates would be his skivvies, he was strong.
Interestingly everybody remembers Barcelona 1996, everybody forgets Monaco the same year.
But all drivers make mistakes, personally I like to see it, it shows they are trying hard.
I'll never forget Hamilton, Lesmo's, Monza 2009, wow!!
Now THAT was a driver on the limit, as was Interlagos 2014. For me that is the definition of a "great". A driver who drives on the limit and goes over it occasionally but not very often. He also doesn't drive into the opposition deliberately. A fact I rate highly in what is supposed to still be a sport.
We all measure these things differently.
posted on 15/11/14
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 12 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 2 hours, 59 minutes ago
-------- i suspect rosberg will scuttle off down the road at a fair lick and hamilton will just nurse his car to the 2nd place he needs --
I could possibly agree if Rosberg had better race pace than Hamilton. So far this season I would have to that hasn't been the case.
And why would he do that if he knew he could control the race allowing Hamilton to within half a second, putting in the odd fastest lap..... like he did in Brazil?
Any driver wanting to control the race would try to do so by pulling away to a reasonable distance of at least a couple of seconds, possibly more to allow for unforced errors.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not that it matters but i am not quite sure where this half a second comes from as rosberg maintained the gap of inbetween 1 -2 secs in the final stint
for what its worth i thought rosberg got his tactics spot on for the race considering the tyres were so marginal , lets have it right GC hamilton never had a sniff of a pass all race -
--------- for me i cant fault rosberg for those tactics --
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See martial that throws ur whole opinion into disrepute, hamilton was within half a second to about 0.8. Hence why his drs was open. That is just a fact
posted on 15/11/14
Just some.excerpts of text commentary - 1-2 seconds? R.u serious
Lap 56: Raikkonen despite his earlier pit stop woes is back in fifth, although he's likely to stop again and is four secs off Hulkenberg in fourth. The gap between the front two is just 0.419secs
Lap 65: Grosjean becomes the second retirement of the day as he takes up residence on the side of the track. Hamilton slices the lead down to half a second again
Lap 69: Hamilton appears to back off again as the gap stretches out to 0.7secs. The only way Hamilton's going to clinch victory here is if Rosberg slips up
posted on 15/11/14
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 12 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 2 hours, 59 minutes ago
-------- i suspect rosberg will scuttle off down the road at a fair lick and hamilton will just nurse his car to the 2nd place he needs --
I could possibly agree if Rosberg had better race pace than Hamilton. So far this season I would have to that hasn't been the case.
And why would he do that if he knew he could control the race allowing Hamilton to within half a second, putting in the odd fastest lap..... like he did in Brazil?
Any driver wanting to control the race would try to do so by pulling away to a reasonable distance of at least a couple of seconds, possibly more to allow for unforced errors.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not that it matters but i am not quite sure where this half a second comes from as rosberg maintained the gap of inbetween 1 -2 secs in the final stint
for what its worth i thought rosberg got his tactics spot on for the race considering the tyres were so marginal , lets have it right GC hamilton never had a sniff of a pass all race -
--------- for me i cant fault rosberg for those tactics --
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See martial that throws ur whole opinion into disrepute, hamilton was within half a second to about 0.8. Hence why his drs was open. That is just a fact
----------------------------------------------------------------------
whatever the gap at any given time was BW, be it 7/10ths , 1 sec , 1.5 sec , whatever , it didnt really make alot of difference as it was clear that rosberg had hamilton and the race under control ,
------- if rosberg had not had the race under control lewis would have been all over his gearbox trying dummies , little feints , whatever -
------------- fraid to say that just was not the case as he did nothing except lock up and look at the back of rosberg"s head for 71 laps
------------- sorry BW i have to call it as i saw it mate
posted on 15/11/14
Well u called it a gap of 1-2 seconds, it was nearer half a second. So 'as u see it' is dubious at best.
There is no factual evidence to.support that lewis attempted a pass, so u r correct, and i havent argued that point. The point i habe argued, with facts and common consensus is the notiom that rosberg was on control. That is far away from the truth.
In reality, it appeared lewis to be quicker on the track and the type of track not allowing a pass, and in particular sector 2 being so detrimental aerodynamically to a followong car. Those are the facts and educated opinion. Your opinion, although harmless has again been proven to be strewn with conjecture, misrepresentation and illusion of bias towards a driver you have demonstrated a real dislike for. This id why i, and others find ur opinions worthless. Sorry MA
posted on 15/11/14
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 3 minutes ago
Well u called it a gap of 1-2 seconds, it was nearer half a second. So 'as u see it' is dubious at best.
There is no factual evidence to.support that lewis attempted a pass, so u r correct, and i havent argued that point. The point i habe argued, with facts and common consensus is the notiom that rosberg was on control. That is far away from the truth.
In reality, it appeared lewis to be quicker on the track and the type of track not allowing a pass, and in particular sector 2 being so detrimental aerodynamically to a followong car. Those are the facts and educated opinion. Your opinion, although harmless has again been proven to be strewn with conjecture, misrepresentation and illusion of bias towards a driver you have demonstrated a real dislike for. This id why i, and others find ur opinions worthless. Sorry MA
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come on now BW lets not fall out just because we dont agree ,
--------- as i said in the final stint / 20 laps / lewis looked quite ragged at times and locked up a few times so he was obviously trying to keep in touch with rosberg to make a pass but never actually got close enough to actually even attempt a pass -
--------- sorry BW from my experience of watching F1 since the mid 80s i can tell when a driver has the number of another driver and rosbergs tactics for me were spot on for the race -
---------- sorry mate i am only calling it as i saw it --
posted on 15/11/14
F1 Quiz - what have all the following comments got in common?
Lewis locked up many times.
2013 McLaren car will be the fastest.
Ferrari will not employ Kimi.
Monaco is low downforce.
Lewis is finished because McLaren won't have the superior Mercedes engine.
Lewis is finished because he has the inferior Mercedes engine.
Neither NR or LH are good enough to win the races that they won.
You cannot comment on a driver that you did not see.
John Surtees was a coward.
Jim Clark had wims.
Rotating a corner is spinning the car 360 degrees.
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