Elvis.
I agree with you that he should be given credit for bringing the youth into the squad. It isn't be accident that they are there.
My main criticism would be though that he didn't use them early enough. I think he should have done so to start with rather than square pegs in round holes.
I do think though he'll leave a decent legacy behind and in years to come we'll look back a bit more fondly on his time at OT than seems likely now.
It is a bizarre argument, as if by chance there was a youngster rather than a multi million pound signing as back up to this player or that player. Some people really do refuse to give him any credit.
It is pure luck he chanced upon Rashford this season.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 19 seconds ago
Elvis.
I agree with you that he should be given credit for bringing the youth into the squad. It isn't be accident that they are there.
My main criticism would be though that he didn't use them early enough. I think he should have done so to start with rather than square pegs in round holes.
I do think though he'll leave a decent legacy behind and in years to come we'll look back a bit more fondly on his time at OT than seems likely now.
----------------------
Perhaps he could have brought them in earlier, but I suspect he was trying to get off to a good start and build up a head of steam. Then you can bring the youngsters into a team that is high on confidence, reducing the pressure that they feel.
comment by Robb - Yes way, Jose (U20351)
posted 49 seconds ago
It is pure luck he chanced upon Rashford this season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair it could be pure bad luck having so many injuries at that time as well.
comment by Robb - Yes way, Jose (U20351)
posted 52 seconds ago
It is pure luck he chanced upon Rashford this season.
-------------------
Just stumbled across him in the boot room eh? Yes, I am sure that he didn't have a clue who he was.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 19 seconds ago
Elvis.
I agree with you that he should be given credit for bringing the youth into the squad. It isn't be accident that they are there.
My main criticism would be though that he didn't use them early enough. I think he should have done so to start with rather than square pegs in round holes.
I do think though he'll leave a decent legacy behind and in years to come we'll look back a bit more fondly on his time at OT than seems likely now.
----------------------
Perhaps he could have brought them in earlier, but I suspect he was trying to get off to a good start and build up a head of steam. Then you can bring the youngsters into a team that is high on confidence, reducing the pressure that they feel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He may well have thought they were not ready and that is fair enough. Knowing what we know now though I think it would have been better to throw them in earlier. Hindsight is wonderful though!
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 19 seconds ago
Elvis.
I agree with you that he should be given credit for bringing the youth into the squad. It isn't be accident that they are there.
My main criticism would be though that he didn't use them early enough. I think he should have done so to start with rather than square pegs in round holes.
I do think though he'll leave a decent legacy behind and in years to come we'll look back a bit more fondly on his time at OT than seems likely now.
----------------------
Perhaps he could have brought them in earlier, but I suspect he was trying to get off to a good start and build up a head of steam. Then you can bring the youngsters into a team that is high on confidence, reducing the pressure that they feel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He may well have thought they were not ready and that is fair enough. Knowing what we know now though I think it would have been better to throw them in earlier. Hindsight is wonderful though!
-------------
These is also the fact that in his head those square pegs and round holes are actually round pegs and round holes.
Elvis
It's a bit of luck as well as LVG benefiting from his way of doing things IMO. I wrote this yesterday to you but maybe you didn't see.
We debated the other day about just how much LVG had plans for Rashford seeing as he had been put on the United bench twice before his Midgetland breakthrough. For me that isn't really having plans for him in the future as it is no more having plans for players like Love, Riley, Poole, Weir and Henderson who have all been put on the first team bench too this season.
It's just more a case of having a smaller squad so having to use the youth as you are left with no other option. To specifically suggest he had plans for certain players I feel is clutching at straws as they have pretty much always been put on the bench (or started) when there have been no other choice.
It's refreshing to see youth on the bench and LVG does deserve credit for putting faith in them and without LVG who knows what would have ever happened to players like Rashford, BJ etc but in the grand scheme of things I think the ability to blood 3 or 4 players who could go on to have a future at United pales into the importance of creating a side good enough to compete for trophies and play a brand of football required by the club.
Like everything it's about balance and while LVG will have done some good the balance just hasn't been right and he has put far too much expectation on the youth by choosing to have such a small squad and the club has suffered to reach it's goals as a consequence.
These is also the fact that in his head those square pegs and round holes are actually round pegs and round holes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ha ha true. Welcome to the wonderful world of bonkers Louis. I like him as a character and he seems a decent man but he doesn't half make some bizarre decisions sometimes.
If he was ten years younger and was looking to be at OT long term I would not be adverse to him staying as I'd like to see where he is trying to take us. Alas, as he has only one year max left though I think we need another manager for next season.
Ashley Young at centre forward!! Thats as square a peg you can have in a round hole - considering Martial was on the pitch.
Surely it would have been obvious to play AY on the wing and AM as CF
MU82. The key word you wrote there is balance. I don't think he's quite managed that although I think he will have laid a good foundation for the next manager.
There is an element of luck in it. He purposely sold a lot of squad players to use some younger players in their place, however the amount of injuries meant you used players that weren't expected.
Although that's likely why you've regressed this season.
Diafol
Yeah I agree, it's pretty much been my main criticism of him over the 2 seasons, and mainly because from the very start he kept going on about a lack of balance at the club but then proceeded to not really fix that lack of balance.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 minute ago
Elvis
It's a bit of luck as well as LVG benefiting from his way of doing things IMO. I wrote this yesterday to you but maybe you didn't see.
We debated the other day about just how much LVG had plans for Rashford seeing as he had been put on the United bench twice before his Midgetland breakthrough. For me that isn't really having plans for him in the future as it is no more having plans for players like Love, Riley, Poole, Weir and Henderson who have all been put on the first team bench too this season.
It's just more a case of having a smaller squad so having to use the youth as you are left with no other option. To specifically suggest he had plans for certain players I feel is clutching at straws as they have pretty much always been put on the bench (or started) when there have been no other choice.
It's refreshing to see youth on the bench and LVG does deserve credit for putting faith in them and without LVG who knows what would have ever happened to players like Rashford, BJ etc but in the grand scheme of things I think the ability to blood 3 or 4 players who could go on to have a future at United pales into the importance of creating a side good enough to compete for trophies and play a brand of football required by the club.
Like everything it's about balance and while LVG will have done some good the balance just hasn't been right and he has put far too much expectation on the youth by choosing to have such a small squad and the club has suffered to reach it's goals as a consequence.
------------------------------------
I have to disagree an Rashford. I think that sending Wilson on loan and promoting Rashford to the bench at a time we were short of striking options shows that he viewed Rashford as a better talent. Therefore he was very aware of him.
He has perhaps been over-reliant on youth. It doesn't bother me personally, as I think it will pay dividends in the long term. However, that isn't really my argument here - I am just disagreeing with this idea that the youth players coming through is just luck. LVG has made space for them in the squad - which ones of them take advantage of that space over the course of the season is largely down to them. They have to prove themselves in training/reserve matches and then take their chances for the first team when they arise. LVG has given them the platform to do that.
comment by garynevillesmoustache (U1910)
posted 5 minutes ago
Ashley Young at centre forward!! Thats as square a peg you can have in a round hole - considering Martial was on the pitch.
Surely it would have been obvious to play AY on the wing and AM as CF
------------------------
Yes, utterly bizarre. As I said, he has made plenty of mistakes this season .
Depends what the expectation that was set of him really. It's not luck that he has used youngsters, if he doesn't achieve his set expectations though, it's bad planning.
Superb article Elvis, backed up with facts.
If some folk believe that the youth thing is down to luck, then conversely, our bad results are down to luck.
We have been unlucky infront of goal. There are stats to back this up as well.
Would like to engage in that discussion
That's the thing, when he did sell a lot of players in the summer I'm not convinced he was full aware of who exactly from the youth would take over these roles. As the season progressed he probably gained a better idea as he went along, like last season when he put Blackett and McNair on but seemingly soon lost much faith in them.
Like I said, players such as Love, Riley, Poole, Weir and Henderson have all been on the bench (and even started) but does that mean LVG had plans for them as he did for Rashford? Or is it more a case of putting himself into the position of having to rely on the youth, not really fully knowing what he has and seeing what he does when needed.
I'm all for giving youth a chance and LVG rightly deserves credit throughout his career for doing so but for me you blood them through when they're ready, just like Ferguson did, you don't put too much expectation unless they really are good enough like he did in the 95/96 season. Ferguson was 100% confident that players like Beckham, Neville, Butt could come in and help the side fight for it's objectives that season and they did with a brilliant balance key. LVG on the other hand has been open to giving youth a chance when needed but I just don't believe he had the belief when putting Love, Riley, Poole, Weir, Henderson, BJ, Rashford etc on the bench until they could prove their worth on the pitch and that for me is a gamble, something this club maybe can't really afford to be doing right now.
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 5 minutes ago
There is an element of luck in it. He purposely sold a lot of squad players to use some younger players in their place, however the amount of injuries meant you used players that weren't expected.
Although that's likely why you've regressed this season.
-------------------------
I'd say that the injuries we have had (again) this season haven't helped either. I think that we would have been a much better team this year with Shaw available.
As for using players that weren't expected, I am sure that there is a few, such as Love and Wier, but they haven't really made an impact.
I have to disagree an Rashford. I think that sending Wilson on loan and promoting Rashford to the bench at a time we were short of striking options shows that he viewed Rashford as a better talent. Therefore he was very aware of him.
.............................
He took a lot of criticism on the subject of Wilson on here as well yet seemingly nobody has put their hands up to admit their mistake with that one.
You've got the fourth best conversion rate in the league so id be interested to know by what comparable you think you've been unlucky with that?
Elvis
But loaning Wilson and putting him on the bench twice in 18 possible games until the Midgetland game doesn't really suggest he had that much belief in him IMO, no more so than he did by putting Love, Riley, Poole, Weir and Henderson on the bench. Especially when he decided to bring Keane back from loan a month later.
Melton
Agreed.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 15 seconds ago
That's the thing, when he did sell a lot of players in the summer I'm not convinced he was full aware of who exactly from the youth would take over these roles. As the season progressed he probably gained a better idea as he went along, like last season when he put Blackett and McNair on but seemingly soon lost much faith in them.
Like I said, players such as Love, Riley, Poole, Weir and Henderson have all been on the bench (and even started) but does that mean LVG had plans for them as he did for Rashford? Or is it more a case of putting himself into the position of having to rely on the youth, not really fully knowing what he has and seeing what he does when needed.
I'm all for giving youth a chance and LVG rightly deserves credit throughout his career for doing so but for me you blood them through when they're ready, just like Ferguson did, you don't put too much expectation unless they really are good enough like he did in the 95/96 season. Ferguson was 100% confident that players like Beckham, Neville, Butt could come in and help the side fight for it's objectives that season and they did with a brilliant balance key. LVG on the other hand has been open to giving youth a chance when needed but I just don't believe he had the belief when putting Love, Riley, Poole, Weir, Henderson, BJ, Rashford etc on the bench until they could prove their worth on the pitch and that for me is a gamble, something this club maybe can't really afford to be doing right now.
----------------
I don't think you can really fully plan which youth players will get a chance. You have an idea who is where on the pecking order, injuries, the kids' form and the 1st team players' form often dictates when a player gets a chance. LVG created an environment where more young players would get a chance this season.
"He took a lot of criticism on the subject of Wilson on here as well yet seemingly nobody has put their hands up to admit their mistake with that one."
What mistake? Who knows what Wilson could have achieved for us. All we do know is that he is a talent and it's frustrating that he hasn't done much for United, whether that's LVG's fault or not is another matter.
Sign in if you want to comment
LVG's youth policy is luck?
Page 1 of 6
6
posted on 15/4/16
Elvis.
I agree with you that he should be given credit for bringing the youth into the squad. It isn't be accident that they are there.
My main criticism would be though that he didn't use them early enough. I think he should have done so to start with rather than square pegs in round holes.
I do think though he'll leave a decent legacy behind and in years to come we'll look back a bit more fondly on his time at OT than seems likely now.
posted on 15/4/16
It is a bizarre argument, as if by chance there was a youngster rather than a multi million pound signing as back up to this player or that player. Some people really do refuse to give him any credit.
posted on 15/4/16
It is pure luck he chanced upon Rashford this season.
posted on 15/4/16
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 19 seconds ago
Elvis.
I agree with you that he should be given credit for bringing the youth into the squad. It isn't be accident that they are there.
My main criticism would be though that he didn't use them early enough. I think he should have done so to start with rather than square pegs in round holes.
I do think though he'll leave a decent legacy behind and in years to come we'll look back a bit more fondly on his time at OT than seems likely now.
----------------------
Perhaps he could have brought them in earlier, but I suspect he was trying to get off to a good start and build up a head of steam. Then you can bring the youngsters into a team that is high on confidence, reducing the pressure that they feel.
posted on 15/4/16
comment by Robb - Yes way, Jose (U20351)
posted 49 seconds ago
It is pure luck he chanced upon Rashford this season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair it could be pure bad luck having so many injuries at that time as well.
posted on 15/4/16
comment by Robb - Yes way, Jose (U20351)
posted 52 seconds ago
It is pure luck he chanced upon Rashford this season.
-------------------
Just stumbled across him in the boot room eh? Yes, I am sure that he didn't have a clue who he was.
posted on 15/4/16
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 19 seconds ago
Elvis.
I agree with you that he should be given credit for bringing the youth into the squad. It isn't be accident that they are there.
My main criticism would be though that he didn't use them early enough. I think he should have done so to start with rather than square pegs in round holes.
I do think though he'll leave a decent legacy behind and in years to come we'll look back a bit more fondly on his time at OT than seems likely now.
----------------------
Perhaps he could have brought them in earlier, but I suspect he was trying to get off to a good start and build up a head of steam. Then you can bring the youngsters into a team that is high on confidence, reducing the pressure that they feel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He may well have thought they were not ready and that is fair enough. Knowing what we know now though I think it would have been better to throw them in earlier. Hindsight is wonderful though!
posted on 15/4/16
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 19 seconds ago
Elvis.
I agree with you that he should be given credit for bringing the youth into the squad. It isn't be accident that they are there.
My main criticism would be though that he didn't use them early enough. I think he should have done so to start with rather than square pegs in round holes.
I do think though he'll leave a decent legacy behind and in years to come we'll look back a bit more fondly on his time at OT than seems likely now.
----------------------
Perhaps he could have brought them in earlier, but I suspect he was trying to get off to a good start and build up a head of steam. Then you can bring the youngsters into a team that is high on confidence, reducing the pressure that they feel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He may well have thought they were not ready and that is fair enough. Knowing what we know now though I think it would have been better to throw them in earlier. Hindsight is wonderful though!
-------------
These is also the fact that in his head those square pegs and round holes are actually round pegs and round holes.
posted on 15/4/16
Elvis
It's a bit of luck as well as LVG benefiting from his way of doing things IMO. I wrote this yesterday to you but maybe you didn't see.
We debated the other day about just how much LVG had plans for Rashford seeing as he had been put on the United bench twice before his Midgetland breakthrough. For me that isn't really having plans for him in the future as it is no more having plans for players like Love, Riley, Poole, Weir and Henderson who have all been put on the first team bench too this season.
It's just more a case of having a smaller squad so having to use the youth as you are left with no other option. To specifically suggest he had plans for certain players I feel is clutching at straws as they have pretty much always been put on the bench (or started) when there have been no other choice.
It's refreshing to see youth on the bench and LVG does deserve credit for putting faith in them and without LVG who knows what would have ever happened to players like Rashford, BJ etc but in the grand scheme of things I think the ability to blood 3 or 4 players who could go on to have a future at United pales into the importance of creating a side good enough to compete for trophies and play a brand of football required by the club.
Like everything it's about balance and while LVG will have done some good the balance just hasn't been right and he has put far too much expectation on the youth by choosing to have such a small squad and the club has suffered to reach it's goals as a consequence.
posted on 15/4/16
These is also the fact that in his head those square pegs and round holes are actually round pegs and round holes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ha ha true. Welcome to the wonderful world of bonkers Louis. I like him as a character and he seems a decent man but he doesn't half make some bizarre decisions sometimes.
If he was ten years younger and was looking to be at OT long term I would not be adverse to him staying as I'd like to see where he is trying to take us. Alas, as he has only one year max left though I think we need another manager for next season.
posted on 15/4/16
Ashley Young at centre forward!! Thats as square a peg you can have in a round hole - considering Martial was on the pitch.
Surely it would have been obvious to play AY on the wing and AM as CF
posted on 15/4/16
MU82. The key word you wrote there is balance. I don't think he's quite managed that although I think he will have laid a good foundation for the next manager.
posted on 15/4/16
There is an element of luck in it. He purposely sold a lot of squad players to use some younger players in their place, however the amount of injuries meant you used players that weren't expected.
Although that's likely why you've regressed this season.
posted on 15/4/16
Diafol
Yeah I agree, it's pretty much been my main criticism of him over the 2 seasons, and mainly because from the very start he kept going on about a lack of balance at the club but then proceeded to not really fix that lack of balance.
posted on 15/4/16
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 minute ago
Elvis
It's a bit of luck as well as LVG benefiting from his way of doing things IMO. I wrote this yesterday to you but maybe you didn't see.
We debated the other day about just how much LVG had plans for Rashford seeing as he had been put on the United bench twice before his Midgetland breakthrough. For me that isn't really having plans for him in the future as it is no more having plans for players like Love, Riley, Poole, Weir and Henderson who have all been put on the first team bench too this season.
It's just more a case of having a smaller squad so having to use the youth as you are left with no other option. To specifically suggest he had plans for certain players I feel is clutching at straws as they have pretty much always been put on the bench (or started) when there have been no other choice.
It's refreshing to see youth on the bench and LVG does deserve credit for putting faith in them and without LVG who knows what would have ever happened to players like Rashford, BJ etc but in the grand scheme of things I think the ability to blood 3 or 4 players who could go on to have a future at United pales into the importance of creating a side good enough to compete for trophies and play a brand of football required by the club.
Like everything it's about balance and while LVG will have done some good the balance just hasn't been right and he has put far too much expectation on the youth by choosing to have such a small squad and the club has suffered to reach it's goals as a consequence.
------------------------------------
I have to disagree an Rashford. I think that sending Wilson on loan and promoting Rashford to the bench at a time we were short of striking options shows that he viewed Rashford as a better talent. Therefore he was very aware of him.
He has perhaps been over-reliant on youth. It doesn't bother me personally, as I think it will pay dividends in the long term. However, that isn't really my argument here - I am just disagreeing with this idea that the youth players coming through is just luck. LVG has made space for them in the squad - which ones of them take advantage of that space over the course of the season is largely down to them. They have to prove themselves in training/reserve matches and then take their chances for the first team when they arise. LVG has given them the platform to do that.
posted on 15/4/16
comment by garynevillesmoustache (U1910)
posted 5 minutes ago
Ashley Young at centre forward!! Thats as square a peg you can have in a round hole - considering Martial was on the pitch.
Surely it would have been obvious to play AY on the wing and AM as CF
------------------------
Yes, utterly bizarre. As I said, he has made plenty of mistakes this season .
posted on 15/4/16
Depends what the expectation that was set of him really. It's not luck that he has used youngsters, if he doesn't achieve his set expectations though, it's bad planning.
posted on 15/4/16
Superb article Elvis, backed up with facts.
If some folk believe that the youth thing is down to luck, then conversely, our bad results are down to luck.
We have been unlucky infront of goal. There are stats to back this up as well.
Would like to engage in that discussion
posted on 15/4/16
That's the thing, when he did sell a lot of players in the summer I'm not convinced he was full aware of who exactly from the youth would take over these roles. As the season progressed he probably gained a better idea as he went along, like last season when he put Blackett and McNair on but seemingly soon lost much faith in them.
Like I said, players such as Love, Riley, Poole, Weir and Henderson have all been on the bench (and even started) but does that mean LVG had plans for them as he did for Rashford? Or is it more a case of putting himself into the position of having to rely on the youth, not really fully knowing what he has and seeing what he does when needed.
I'm all for giving youth a chance and LVG rightly deserves credit throughout his career for doing so but for me you blood them through when they're ready, just like Ferguson did, you don't put too much expectation unless they really are good enough like he did in the 95/96 season. Ferguson was 100% confident that players like Beckham, Neville, Butt could come in and help the side fight for it's objectives that season and they did with a brilliant balance key. LVG on the other hand has been open to giving youth a chance when needed but I just don't believe he had the belief when putting Love, Riley, Poole, Weir, Henderson, BJ, Rashford etc on the bench until they could prove their worth on the pitch and that for me is a gamble, something this club maybe can't really afford to be doing right now.
posted on 15/4/16
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 5 minutes ago
There is an element of luck in it. He purposely sold a lot of squad players to use some younger players in their place, however the amount of injuries meant you used players that weren't expected.
Although that's likely why you've regressed this season.
-------------------------
I'd say that the injuries we have had (again) this season haven't helped either. I think that we would have been a much better team this year with Shaw available.
As for using players that weren't expected, I am sure that there is a few, such as Love and Wier, but they haven't really made an impact.
posted on 15/4/16
I have to disagree an Rashford. I think that sending Wilson on loan and promoting Rashford to the bench at a time we were short of striking options shows that he viewed Rashford as a better talent. Therefore he was very aware of him.
.............................
He took a lot of criticism on the subject of Wilson on here as well yet seemingly nobody has put their hands up to admit their mistake with that one.
posted on 15/4/16
You've got the fourth best conversion rate in the league so id be interested to know by what comparable you think you've been unlucky with that?
posted on 15/4/16
Elvis
But loaning Wilson and putting him on the bench twice in 18 possible games until the Midgetland game doesn't really suggest he had that much belief in him IMO, no more so than he did by putting Love, Riley, Poole, Weir and Henderson on the bench. Especially when he decided to bring Keane back from loan a month later.
Melton
Agreed.
posted on 15/4/16
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 15 seconds ago
That's the thing, when he did sell a lot of players in the summer I'm not convinced he was full aware of who exactly from the youth would take over these roles. As the season progressed he probably gained a better idea as he went along, like last season when he put Blackett and McNair on but seemingly soon lost much faith in them.
Like I said, players such as Love, Riley, Poole, Weir and Henderson have all been on the bench (and even started) but does that mean LVG had plans for them as he did for Rashford? Or is it more a case of putting himself into the position of having to rely on the youth, not really fully knowing what he has and seeing what he does when needed.
I'm all for giving youth a chance and LVG rightly deserves credit throughout his career for doing so but for me you blood them through when they're ready, just like Ferguson did, you don't put too much expectation unless they really are good enough like he did in the 95/96 season. Ferguson was 100% confident that players like Beckham, Neville, Butt could come in and help the side fight for it's objectives that season and they did with a brilliant balance key. LVG on the other hand has been open to giving youth a chance when needed but I just don't believe he had the belief when putting Love, Riley, Poole, Weir, Henderson, BJ, Rashford etc on the bench until they could prove their worth on the pitch and that for me is a gamble, something this club maybe can't really afford to be doing right now.
----------------
I don't think you can really fully plan which youth players will get a chance. You have an idea who is where on the pecking order, injuries, the kids' form and the 1st team players' form often dictates when a player gets a chance. LVG created an environment where more young players would get a chance this season.
posted on 15/4/16
"He took a lot of criticism on the subject of Wilson on here as well yet seemingly nobody has put their hands up to admit their mistake with that one."
What mistake? Who knows what Wilson could have achieved for us. All we do know is that he is a talent and it's frustrating that he hasn't done much for United, whether that's LVG's fault or not is another matter.
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