comment by United_kaz (U9943)
posted 3 hours, 11 minutes ago
I would bet that people who make such statements have never visited a slaughterhouse.
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you miss my point, I have no problem with people who have a issue against halal meat but also refrain from eating meat themselves, I just have a issue with people who moan about cows being slaughtered in a humane way but would be more than willing to eat the same cow if it was killed a different way

and to the point about dogs from the other guy, I mean seriously? that's obviously a culturing thing that doesn't happen in this currently so dnt get why you brought that up
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No, I understood your point and was agreeing with you.

Halal is not just about point of slaughter its about welfare and non cruelty from birth to slaughter

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IF you have eaten or eat meat and you were on a farm how would you kill a chicken?
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Cut its head off so that I could watch it run around like a headless chicken.

comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 41 seconds ago
Halal is not just about point of slaughter its about welfare and non cruelty from birth to slaughter

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OK, I have a question then. Not an attack

If the general public decided that based on all the facts Halal was decided to be cruel and needed to be changed because there were more humane ways of killing an animal in the modern world, do you think the rules would be changed? Or is this something that's already occurred?

@4

I visited a few abbatoirs and they hung them by the feet and the conveyor thing dangled them along into a vat of water

Many ended up with broken wings, legs and believe it or not some ducked and missed the water

They then get dunked in hot water to remove the feathers. Some still alive

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

Not sure that's anything to do with it being Halal though Dave, that's just some s being s.

comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 1 minute ago
@4

I visited a few abbatoirs and they hung them by the feet and the conveyor thing dangled them along into a vat of water

Many ended up with broken wings, legs and believe it or not some ducked and missed the water

They then get dunked in hot water to remove the feathers. Some still alive
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That's interesting, but if it's true you've visited some abattoirs I'd suggest you revisit if possible and potentially report them. What you suggest is the norm, isn't. My friend's parents when we were growing up owned Jagger Green abattoir near the Halifax area, and 10 to 15 years ago, what you say you've seen wasn't the norm. Since then they've spent literally millions of pounds updating and replacing their equipment. There was an article in the paper about it I'll try and find for you.

comment by 4 (U19487)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 41 seconds ago
Halal is not just about point of slaughter its about welfare and non cruelty from birth to slaughter

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OK, I have a question then. Not an attack

If the general public decided that based on all the facts Halal was decided to be cruel and needed to be changed because there were more humane ways of killing an animal in the modern world, do you think the rules would be changed? Or is this something that's already occurred?
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The 2005 French study was done to stop halal slaughter and coincide with the burkha ban. The study found that it was better than other methods.

Also the people at the forefront of stunning are in it for the volume and so more money.

Unrelated but hope you get the point, I was listening to a debate in rape and why it happens. Now one of the main reasons cited is power. I also held this view as it's consistent.

Yet on this debate we had a guy say that power was only a small element and how a feminist writer came up with the notion in the late 70's and it has become accepted. Yet all studies and psychology type experts disagree

Point being that I see the same with halal

Sounds like you're going back to DJ's original suggested method of dispatch.

comment by Brightdave: (U11711)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 53 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 14 seconds ago
I've just read an article covering this subject on a BBC web page. All studies certainly do not show that stunning causes more pain and suffering, far from it.
But also reports that the halal and kosher way of slaughtering can also be equally humane, if that is the right word to use.
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I studied this a few years ago as part of a project and stunning causes undue suffering to the animal there is little doing tbh

However it looks better and as I said has lead to more animals being slaughtered in less time. The organisations calling foenit are all about the money

I can't remember the name but the head of a vegan organisation actually said if he was to eat meat then halal would be all he ate as it is the most humane method if slaughter, if done properly

There is someone called temple jardin (if I recall) from america who said the same

Stunning, when minitored, shows that the animalnia in distress but without medical equipment you simply don't see it

Also the way chickens, for example, are stunned is torture and that is why some halal organisations say stunned meat is not halal
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Mate, there's definitely better and worse ways to slaughter animals. And there's also ways to test. We know so much about animals' nervous systems bother vertebrates and invertebrates, so to say slitting their throats is no different or even imply it's better is simply wrong.

We've talked religion in other threads so you know my background, I have no agenda, but from an anatomical and physiological perspective, it isn't great.

Also, there's been a number of REALLY disturbing investigate reports on halal butchery in Asian countries recently. As others have said, most methods aren't great, but what's been going on under the guise of halal is sickening, particularly in Indonesia.
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The studies I mentioned earlier did test using EKG ECG monitors etc.

Also as I mentioned the process involves cutting specifically and again studies show the pain is less, a flutter

I agree some practices are bad but that's them not the process

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by 4 (U19487)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 41 seconds ago
Halal is not just about point of slaughter its about welfare and non cruelty from birth to slaughter

----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, I have a question then. Not an attack

If the general public decided that based on all the facts Halal was decided to be cruel and needed to be changed because there were more humane ways of killing an animal in the modern world, do you think the rules would be changed? Or is this something that's already occurred?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The 2005 French study was done to stop halal slaughter and coincide with the burkha ban. The study found that it was better than other methods.

Also the people at the forefront of stunning are in it for the volume and so more money.

Unrelated but hope you get the point, I was listening to a debate in rape and why it happens. Now one of the main reasons cited is power. I also held this view as it's consistent.

Yet on this debate we had a guy say that power was only a small element and how a feminist writer came up with the notion in the late 70's and it has become accepted. Yet all studies and psychology type experts disagree

Point being that I see the same with halal
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It's not a great way to make your point, but I think I get what you're trying to say which is that Halal being cruel is something that might not be true but has become many people's gospel? I don't think you can relate it to rape and maybe wouldn't use that example again. Inappropriate.

Anyway post the studies because I'd be interested to read how they've compared the suffering in halal to that in an instant and painless death.

Couldn't find the article I mentioned about Jagger Green abattoir, but here's one on them spending £2m in 2015 to double their capacity and maintain and improve on their standards.

https://www.fginsight.com/news/new-2m-halifax-abattoir-set-to-double-firms-capacity-7290

Says it's an entirely new one, but actually what they did was buy some fields next to their land and extend.

Also Zlat, I hope you accept that what you claim to have seen on your visits isn't the industry standard.

The 2005 French study was done to stop halal slaughter and coincide with the burkha ban. The study found that it was better than other methods.


Why are you choosing to believe a French study from 2005 over a more resent report by the BVA? A few years ago we were told diesel was more environment friendly than petrol, now we're being told to ditch diesel.

I think Zlat's gone.

The meat industry in general is very brutal. Think of how much meat is consumed everyday and how many animals are killed everyday in order for so much meat to be available to us. Animal welfare isn't given any real thought.
I think more people should try to reduce the amount of meat they eat. Perhaps cut it down to once or twice a week.

Once or twice a week
Cutting down to once or twice a day is too much to ask tbh.

comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 8 minutes ago
The meat industry in general is very brutal. Think of how much meat is consumed everyday and how many animals are killed everyday in order for so much meat to be available to us. Animal welfare isn't given any real thought.
I think more people should try to reduce the amount of meat they eat. Perhaps cut it down to once or twice a week.
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As big an issue for me is the damage that livestock farming is doing to the environment.

If you want to reduce your carbon footprint, forget about improving your home insulation, cycling everywhere or cutting out long haul flights.

The best thing you can do is actually to cut red meat out of your diet, or at least significantly cut down the amount you eat.

Eat meat just once a week?

D'Jeezus Mackaroni / Mike -

As rossobianch has said, you can start by cutting down on red meats. Make beef/lamb/pork a rare treat rather than a regular thing. Try switching to a pescetarianism diet for most of the year. Then, you can even start reducing the amount of fish you have too. It can be done but is best done gradually or else it would be too big a leap to make.

Sorry lads had to shoot off.

Then saw the incident in London and forgot about this

I don't eat fish, so not going down that path
Having Chicken tonight though... Although I do fancy a mixed grill with all this talk about beef, lamb and pork