comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
VVD didn't seem to read the play so well for the second either - very slow to react.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Has he significantly improved us, yes or no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He certainly didn't today.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still can't answer the question. Coward
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't believe currently that VVD has improved Liverpool to the extent that I would consider it to be significant. All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine.
And for the record, I have made my point clearly and several times - your peculiar assertion that not wanting to repeat myself yet again is somehow a cowardly act demonstrates that you assign far too much value to the content of this forum, and also that you probably misread some of the more subtle aspects of social interaction.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keep digging.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I answered the question, and your response is again a content free contribution, culminating in your apparent intellectual pinnacle, an emoji.
There is certain irony that all these self proclaimed experts are unable to offer any insight or knowledge, or indeed even string together a coherent sentence.
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 4 hours, 22 minutes ago
VVD didn't seem to read the play so well for the second either - very slow to react.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was not at fault for either of the goals. Wijnaldum failed to close him down while van dijk already had a man behind him to cover. Matip was closer. For the first goal it was 100% Lallana. Nice try though.
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
VVD didn't seem to read the play so well for the second either - very slow to react.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Has he significantly improved us, yes or no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He certainly didn't today.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still can't answer the question. Coward
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't believe currently that VVD has improved Liverpool to the extent that I would consider it to be significant. All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine.
And for the record, I have made my point clearly and several times - your peculiar assertion that not wanting to repeat myself yet again is somehow a cowardly act demonstrates that you assign far too much value to the content of this forum, and also that you probably misread some of the more subtle aspects of social interaction.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh but you do believe that he improved Liverpool significantly. You're merely trolling to extend the amusementpark that is your article.
"All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine."
You'll probaby feel the burden of the world on your shoulders then since it's not reasonable to accept that the whole world acknowledges van dijks significant improvement. It's just you who is playing games with words without substance.
You have no arguments, that's why you don't repeat them. It's fine to keep your act as the clown though, Im just disappointed that you're not a more clever troll. Would have liked more shrewd and elaborate reasoning to your trail of fought - which of course is a mere fantasy since you've already been proven incorrect by the voice of reason and sensibility. But any real effort would be appreciated. I guess all we have to look forward to is to see van dijk fail for an extended period to provide you some ammo.
'Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things!'
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I commend you for at least making a decent and well articulated post - something of a rarity on here (aside from my own contributions). I disagree with your assigning factual absolutes to your own opinion piece, based on your opinion of aggregated consensus though. In the pivotal matches since Liverpool signed VVD, they have still conceded, still lost and still fallen short when called upon.
I also believe there has been a subtle shift in emphasis by Klopp in recent times, bolstering defensive focus and thus perhaps giving the impression that VVD has has a more significant effect that he actually has, to those uneducated in the game. My original post referred to the system in which VVD plays, and believe that is slightly more pragmatic these days. It's clear that the attacking effect has been compromised too, given the lack of fluidity. Many will not have noticed this, but look and you will see.
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 4 hours, 22 minutes ago
VVD didn't seem to read the play so well for the second either - very slow to react.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was not at fault for either of the goals. Wijnaldum failed to close him down while van dijk already had a man behind him to cover. Matip was closer. For the first goal it was 100% Lallana. Nice try though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
VVD could punt the ball unopposed into his own net from 2 yards and you would find somebody else to blame
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 4 hours, 22 minutes ago
VVD didn't seem to read the play so well for the second either - very slow to react.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was not at fault for either of the goals. Wijnaldum failed to close him down while van dijk already had a man behind him to cover. Matip was closer. For the first goal it was 100% Lallana. Nice try though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
VVD could punt the ball unopposed into his own net from 2 yards and you would find somebody else to blame
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't be silly. Even though that ship sailed long ago.
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
VVD didn't seem to read the play so well for the second either - very slow to react.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Has he significantly improved us, yes or no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He certainly didn't today.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still can't answer the question. Coward
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't believe currently that VVD has improved Liverpool to the extent that I would consider it to be significant. All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine.
And for the record, I have made my point clearly and several times - your peculiar assertion that not wanting to repeat myself yet again is somehow a cowardly act demonstrates that you assign far too much value to the content of this forum, and also that you probably misread some of the more subtle aspects of social interaction.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh but you do believe that he improved Liverpool significantly. You're merely trolling to extend the amusementpark that is your article.
"All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine."
You'll probaby feel the burden of the world on your shoulders then since it's not reasonable to accept that the whole world acknowledges van dijks significant improvement. It's just you who is playing games with words without substance.
You have no arguments, that's why you don't repeat them. It's fine to keep your act as the clown though, Im just disappointed that you're not a more clever troll. Would have liked more shrewd and elaborate reasoning to your trail of fought - which of course is a mere fantasy since you've already been proven incorrect by the voice of reason and sensibility. But any real effort would be appreciated. I guess all we have to look forward to is to see van dijk fail for an extended period to provide you some ammo.
'Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things!'
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I commend you for at least making a decent and well articulated post - something of a rarity on here (aside from my own contributions). I disagree with your assigning factual absolutes to your own opinion piece, based on your opinion of aggregated consensus though. In the pivotal matches since Liverpool signed VVD, they have still conceded, still lost and still fallen short when called upon.
I also believe there has been a subtle shift in emphasis by Klopp in recent times, bolstering defensive focus and thus perhaps giving the impression that VVD has has a more significant effect that he actually has, to those uneducated in the game. My original post referred to the system in which VVD plays, and believe that is slightly more pragmatic these days. It's clear that the attacking effect has been compromised too, given the lack of fluidity. Many will not have noticed this, but look and you will see.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No person can expect a flawless defense with the inclusion of van dijk since every player is capable of making mistakes. What we do look for are the difference in performance pre and post van dijk aswell as looking at his individual contributions and overall attributes.
It's a fact that Liverpool conceded less after his arrival. We can also comment on the look of the defense without factual measurement. As a unit the defense has looked calmer and looks able to soak pressure from the opposition. This ability was not present before van dijk came. This is signficant and not an easy feat to reach, especially with the addition of just one player. I therefor would deem it fair to say it's a significant change.
As an individual van dijk brings skills that were needed to combat specific weaknesses in Liverpools pre-vvd defense. Namely the inability to handle crosses, corners, concede through headers and being bullied by the likes of Deeney, Benteke, etc. With his presence he is able to bully the same names that made life difficult for the defense. VVD dominating the likes of Murray, Lukaku, Benteke, Giroud, Dzeko has become second nature. And today we conceded from a header. The last time this happened was a long time ago, another testament of how van dijk eliminated a known and old weakness. This is significant and progress.
His other attribute that can't be measured is his leadership and influence. The defense looks calmer (admittedly this often applies more to the starting back 4) and players seem to reach a higher level of competence with Gomez as the standout player in this regard. Unfortunately Alexander Arnold regressed a little but did show signs of growth last season. Lovren also seem to up his level without being flawless.
Of course it can be debated how much influence van dijk had on the levelgrowth of the players around him. How much was his and how much was it the players own doing, but it's reasonable to believe that van dijk had a hand in it. And so all the above culminated into a far stronger defense. Significantly if you're being honest and fair.
I do acknowledge that the whole team defends as a unit, but this was also present before van dijk arrivés and these same players weren't capable of negating the weaknesses I described. I also feel that Wijnaldum is not a good midfielder in the role he plays, where he has the responsibility to defend and attack. he simply is not great at controlling or playing defensive. It also doesn't help the defense to play with such a high defensive line. It takes a very disciplined line to trigger the offside trap so many times against Arsenal and their rapid players (who also flooded compact areas with players). Van dijks recovery speed is also an enormous asset to have, especially with Klopps style of play. Another 'improvement'.
So he brings a lot to the table as an individual without disregarding the team effort when they defend as a unit.
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 10 hours, 24 minutes ago
I do acknowledge that the whole team defends as a unit, but this was also present before van dijk arrivés and these same players weren't capable of negating the weaknesses I described. I also feel that Wijnaldum is not a good midfielder in the role he plays, where he has the responsibility to defend and attack. he simply is not great at controlling or playing defensive. It also doesn't help the defense to play with such a high defensive line. It takes a very disciplined line to trigger the offside trap so many times against Arsenal and their rapid players (who also flooded compact areas with players). Van dijks recovery speed is also an enormous asset to have, especially with Klopps style of play. Another 'improvement'.
So he brings a lot to the table as an individual without disregarding the team effort when they defend as a unit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not unreasonable points to make, and of course he has some excellent qualities. He is also faster than I had realised. A key sentence you use in your post is around how his recovery speed is key to Klopps style of play - my original post referred to Klopps typical system and style, and essentially how changing a defender without changing the system isn't going to radically improve the defence - I stand by that. I do acknowledge that VVD has been very good since arriving, and in the short term there has been an improvement in some of the traditionally measured statistics, but in the bigger picture I believe the old problems driven by the systems still remain, and that is borne out in Liverpools failure in some crucial matches.
But he has significantly improved us, no?
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 58 minutes ago
But he has significantly improved us, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please see my previous posts for a response and explanation of my view. Feel free to make a useful and positive contribution if you like, but I appreciate that doesn't come easy to you, so I won't raise my expectations.
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 8 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 58 minutes ago
But he has significantly improved us, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please see my previous posts for a response and explanation of my view. Feel free to make a useful and positive contribution if you like, but I appreciate that doesn't come easy to you, so I won't raise my expectations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tiresome tripe.
comment by Planète des Singes - (U4158)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 8 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 58 minutes ago
But he has significantly improved us, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please see my previous posts for a response and explanation of my view. Feel free to make a useful and positive contribution if you like, but I appreciate that doesn't come easy to you, so I won't raise my expectations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tiresome tripe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly you are unable to make any useful contributions, but I'm sure the irony of your comment is lost on you.
I don't believe currently that VVD has improved Liverpool to the extent that I would consider it to be significant. All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine.
----
Ok. Do you have any evidence to show for that?
Anything to back up for your opinion rather than "Because I say so", perhaps?
Has he helped put a trophy in Horrenderson hands?
Nah, he hasn’t improved Liverpool above ‘happy to finish 4th’ level
Arouna agrees with the creator of one of the most ridiculous articles ever. No surprise there.
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 2 days, 6 hours ago
I don't believe currently that VVD has improved Liverpool to the extent that I would consider it to be significant. All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine.
----
Ok. Do you have any evidence to show for that?
Anything to back up for your opinion rather than "Because I say so", perhaps?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please try and read a little more thoroughly before commenting. There have been some useful, civil and reasonable discussions on here, but you seem to inexplicably miss whats right in front of you, instead choosing to focus on mostly missing the point. Your belligerent and simplistic comments just clutter the thread up, so if you can't be civil and can't make a useful contribution, just don't bother.
what significance test have you used Brain?
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 2 days, 6 hours ago
I don't believe currently that VVD has improved Liverpool to the extent that I would consider it to be significant. All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine.
----
Ok. Do you have any evidence to show for that?
Anything to back up for your opinion rather than "Because I say so", perhaps?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please try and read a little more thoroughly before commenting. There have been some useful, civil and reasonable discussions on here, but you seem to inexplicably miss whats right in front of you, instead choosing to focus on mostly missing the point. Your belligerent and simplistic comments just clutter the thread up, so if you can't be civil and can't make a useful contribution, just don't bother.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could have just written "I have nothing", rather than posting the above, it would have been a lot faster
https://twitter.com/st_1878/status/1060968879558680576?s=21
You could have just written "I have nothing", rather than posting the above, it would have been a lot faster
-----
yup.. brain got zip.
What’s that?
Oh, another VVD clean sheet.
I don't believe currently that VVD has improved Liverpool to the extent that I would consider it to be significant.
=====
Showing signs of improvement here lad but still a bit ree t arded. Keep up the good work. Soon you won't need us anymore.
#bentref and PGMOL cheat to stop Fulham opening goal.
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
comment by Planète des Singes - (U4158)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 8 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 58 minutes ago
But he has significantly improved us, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please see my previous posts for a response and explanation of my view. Feel free to make a useful and positive contribution if you like, but I appreciate that doesn't come easy to you, so I won't raise my expectations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tiresome tripe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly you are unable to make any useful contributions, but I'm sure the irony of your comment is lost on you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet more pointless piffle.
Sign in if you want to comment
Van Dijk won't improve Liverpool significan
Page 38 of 68
39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43
posted on 6/11/18
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
VVD didn't seem to read the play so well for the second either - very slow to react.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Has he significantly improved us, yes or no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He certainly didn't today.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still can't answer the question. Coward
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't believe currently that VVD has improved Liverpool to the extent that I would consider it to be significant. All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine.
And for the record, I have made my point clearly and several times - your peculiar assertion that not wanting to repeat myself yet again is somehow a cowardly act demonstrates that you assign far too much value to the content of this forum, and also that you probably misread some of the more subtle aspects of social interaction.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keep digging.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I answered the question, and your response is again a content free contribution, culminating in your apparent intellectual pinnacle, an emoji.
There is certain irony that all these self proclaimed experts are unable to offer any insight or knowledge, or indeed even string together a coherent sentence.
posted on 6/11/18
Take the bait
posted on 6/11/18
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 4 hours, 22 minutes ago
VVD didn't seem to read the play so well for the second either - very slow to react.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was not at fault for either of the goals. Wijnaldum failed to close him down while van dijk already had a man behind him to cover. Matip was closer. For the first goal it was 100% Lallana. Nice try though.
posted on 6/11/18
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
VVD didn't seem to read the play so well for the second either - very slow to react.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Has he significantly improved us, yes or no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He certainly didn't today.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still can't answer the question. Coward
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't believe currently that VVD has improved Liverpool to the extent that I would consider it to be significant. All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine.
And for the record, I have made my point clearly and several times - your peculiar assertion that not wanting to repeat myself yet again is somehow a cowardly act demonstrates that you assign far too much value to the content of this forum, and also that you probably misread some of the more subtle aspects of social interaction.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh but you do believe that he improved Liverpool significantly. You're merely trolling to extend the amusementpark that is your article.
"All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine."
You'll probaby feel the burden of the world on your shoulders then since it's not reasonable to accept that the whole world acknowledges van dijks significant improvement. It's just you who is playing games with words without substance.
You have no arguments, that's why you don't repeat them. It's fine to keep your act as the clown though, Im just disappointed that you're not a more clever troll. Would have liked more shrewd and elaborate reasoning to your trail of fought - which of course is a mere fantasy since you've already been proven incorrect by the voice of reason and sensibility. But any real effort would be appreciated. I guess all we have to look forward to is to see van dijk fail for an extended period to provide you some ammo.
'Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things!'
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I commend you for at least making a decent and well articulated post - something of a rarity on here (aside from my own contributions). I disagree with your assigning factual absolutes to your own opinion piece, based on your opinion of aggregated consensus though. In the pivotal matches since Liverpool signed VVD, they have still conceded, still lost and still fallen short when called upon.
I also believe there has been a subtle shift in emphasis by Klopp in recent times, bolstering defensive focus and thus perhaps giving the impression that VVD has has a more significant effect that he actually has, to those uneducated in the game. My original post referred to the system in which VVD plays, and believe that is slightly more pragmatic these days. It's clear that the attacking effect has been compromised too, given the lack of fluidity. Many will not have noticed this, but look and you will see.
posted on 6/11/18
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 4 hours, 22 minutes ago
VVD didn't seem to read the play so well for the second either - very slow to react.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was not at fault for either of the goals. Wijnaldum failed to close him down while van dijk already had a man behind him to cover. Matip was closer. For the first goal it was 100% Lallana. Nice try though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
VVD could punt the ball unopposed into his own net from 2 yards and you would find somebody else to blame
posted on 6/11/18
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 4 hours, 22 minutes ago
VVD didn't seem to read the play so well for the second either - very slow to react.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was not at fault for either of the goals. Wijnaldum failed to close him down while van dijk already had a man behind him to cover. Matip was closer. For the first goal it was 100% Lallana. Nice try though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
VVD could punt the ball unopposed into his own net from 2 yards and you would find somebody else to blame
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't be silly. Even though that ship sailed long ago.
posted on 6/11/18
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
VVD didn't seem to read the play so well for the second either - very slow to react.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Has he significantly improved us, yes or no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He certainly didn't today.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still can't answer the question. Coward
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't believe currently that VVD has improved Liverpool to the extent that I would consider it to be significant. All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine.
And for the record, I have made my point clearly and several times - your peculiar assertion that not wanting to repeat myself yet again is somehow a cowardly act demonstrates that you assign far too much value to the content of this forum, and also that you probably misread some of the more subtle aspects of social interaction.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh but you do believe that he improved Liverpool significantly. You're merely trolling to extend the amusementpark that is your article.
"All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine."
You'll probaby feel the burden of the world on your shoulders then since it's not reasonable to accept that the whole world acknowledges van dijks significant improvement. It's just you who is playing games with words without substance.
You have no arguments, that's why you don't repeat them. It's fine to keep your act as the clown though, Im just disappointed that you're not a more clever troll. Would have liked more shrewd and elaborate reasoning to your trail of fought - which of course is a mere fantasy since you've already been proven incorrect by the voice of reason and sensibility. But any real effort would be appreciated. I guess all we have to look forward to is to see van dijk fail for an extended period to provide you some ammo.
'Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things!'
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I commend you for at least making a decent and well articulated post - something of a rarity on here (aside from my own contributions). I disagree with your assigning factual absolutes to your own opinion piece, based on your opinion of aggregated consensus though. In the pivotal matches since Liverpool signed VVD, they have still conceded, still lost and still fallen short when called upon.
I also believe there has been a subtle shift in emphasis by Klopp in recent times, bolstering defensive focus and thus perhaps giving the impression that VVD has has a more significant effect that he actually has, to those uneducated in the game. My original post referred to the system in which VVD plays, and believe that is slightly more pragmatic these days. It's clear that the attacking effect has been compromised too, given the lack of fluidity. Many will not have noticed this, but look and you will see.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No person can expect a flawless defense with the inclusion of van dijk since every player is capable of making mistakes. What we do look for are the difference in performance pre and post van dijk aswell as looking at his individual contributions and overall attributes.
It's a fact that Liverpool conceded less after his arrival. We can also comment on the look of the defense without factual measurement. As a unit the defense has looked calmer and looks able to soak pressure from the opposition. This ability was not present before van dijk came. This is signficant and not an easy feat to reach, especially with the addition of just one player. I therefor would deem it fair to say it's a significant change.
As an individual van dijk brings skills that were needed to combat specific weaknesses in Liverpools pre-vvd defense. Namely the inability to handle crosses, corners, concede through headers and being bullied by the likes of Deeney, Benteke, etc. With his presence he is able to bully the same names that made life difficult for the defense. VVD dominating the likes of Murray, Lukaku, Benteke, Giroud, Dzeko has become second nature. And today we conceded from a header. The last time this happened was a long time ago, another testament of how van dijk eliminated a known and old weakness. This is significant and progress.
His other attribute that can't be measured is his leadership and influence. The defense looks calmer (admittedly this often applies more to the starting back 4) and players seem to reach a higher level of competence with Gomez as the standout player in this regard. Unfortunately Alexander Arnold regressed a little but did show signs of growth last season. Lovren also seem to up his level without being flawless.
Of course it can be debated how much influence van dijk had on the levelgrowth of the players around him. How much was his and how much was it the players own doing, but it's reasonable to believe that van dijk had a hand in it. And so all the above culminated into a far stronger defense. Significantly if you're being honest and fair.
posted on 6/11/18
I do acknowledge that the whole team defends as a unit, but this was also present before van dijk arrivés and these same players weren't capable of negating the weaknesses I described. I also feel that Wijnaldum is not a good midfielder in the role he plays, where he has the responsibility to defend and attack. he simply is not great at controlling or playing defensive. It also doesn't help the defense to play with such a high defensive line. It takes a very disciplined line to trigger the offside trap so many times against Arsenal and their rapid players (who also flooded compact areas with players). Van dijks recovery speed is also an enormous asset to have, especially with Klopps style of play. Another 'improvement'.
So he brings a lot to the table as an individual without disregarding the team effort when they defend as a unit.
posted on 7/11/18
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 10 hours, 24 minutes ago
I do acknowledge that the whole team defends as a unit, but this was also present before van dijk arrivés and these same players weren't capable of negating the weaknesses I described. I also feel that Wijnaldum is not a good midfielder in the role he plays, where he has the responsibility to defend and attack. he simply is not great at controlling or playing defensive. It also doesn't help the defense to play with such a high defensive line. It takes a very disciplined line to trigger the offside trap so many times against Arsenal and their rapid players (who also flooded compact areas with players). Van dijks recovery speed is also an enormous asset to have, especially with Klopps style of play. Another 'improvement'.
So he brings a lot to the table as an individual without disregarding the team effort when they defend as a unit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not unreasonable points to make, and of course he has some excellent qualities. He is also faster than I had realised. A key sentence you use in your post is around how his recovery speed is key to Klopps style of play - my original post referred to Klopps typical system and style, and essentially how changing a defender without changing the system isn't going to radically improve the defence - I stand by that. I do acknowledge that VVD has been very good since arriving, and in the short term there has been an improvement in some of the traditionally measured statistics, but in the bigger picture I believe the old problems driven by the systems still remain, and that is borne out in Liverpools failure in some crucial matches.
posted on 7/11/18
But he has significantly improved us, no?
posted on 7/11/18
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 58 minutes ago
But he has significantly improved us, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please see my previous posts for a response and explanation of my view. Feel free to make a useful and positive contribution if you like, but I appreciate that doesn't come easy to you, so I won't raise my expectations.
posted on 7/11/18
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 8 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 58 minutes ago
But he has significantly improved us, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please see my previous posts for a response and explanation of my view. Feel free to make a useful and positive contribution if you like, but I appreciate that doesn't come easy to you, so I won't raise my expectations.
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Tiresome tripe.
posted on 7/11/18
comment by Planète des Singes - (U4158)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 8 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 58 minutes ago
But he has significantly improved us, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please see my previous posts for a response and explanation of my view. Feel free to make a useful and positive contribution if you like, but I appreciate that doesn't come easy to you, so I won't raise my expectations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tiresome tripe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly you are unable to make any useful contributions, but I'm sure the irony of your comment is lost on you.
posted on 8/11/18
I don't believe currently that VVD has improved Liverpool to the extent that I would consider it to be significant. All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine.
----
Ok. Do you have any evidence to show for that?
Anything to back up for your opinion rather than "Because I say so", perhaps?
posted on 8/11/18
Has he helped put a trophy in Horrenderson hands?
Nah, he hasn’t improved Liverpool above ‘happy to finish 4th’ level
posted on 9/11/18
Arouna agrees with the creator of one of the most ridiculous articles ever. No surprise there.
posted on 10/11/18
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 2 days, 6 hours ago
I don't believe currently that VVD has improved Liverpool to the extent that I would consider it to be significant. All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine.
----
Ok. Do you have any evidence to show for that?
Anything to back up for your opinion rather than "Because I say so", perhaps?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please try and read a little more thoroughly before commenting. There have been some useful, civil and reasonable discussions on here, but you seem to inexplicably miss whats right in front of you, instead choosing to focus on mostly missing the point. Your belligerent and simplistic comments just clutter the thread up, so if you can't be civil and can't make a useful contribution, just don't bother.
posted on 10/11/18
what significance test have you used Brain?
posted on 10/11/18
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 2 days, 6 hours ago
I don't believe currently that VVD has improved Liverpool to the extent that I would consider it to be significant. All you blinkered partisans will of course disagree with me, but that is your burden to carry, not mine.
----
Ok. Do you have any evidence to show for that?
Anything to back up for your opinion rather than "Because I say so", perhaps?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please try and read a little more thoroughly before commenting. There have been some useful, civil and reasonable discussions on here, but you seem to inexplicably miss whats right in front of you, instead choosing to focus on mostly missing the point. Your belligerent and simplistic comments just clutter the thread up, so if you can't be civil and can't make a useful contribution, just don't bother.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could have just written "I have nothing", rather than posting the above, it would have been a lot faster
posted on 11/11/18
https://twitter.com/st_1878/status/1060968879558680576?s=21
posted on 11/11/18
You could have just written "I have nothing", rather than posting the above, it would have been a lot faster
-----
yup.. brain got zip.
posted on 11/11/18
What’s that?
Oh, another VVD clean sheet.
posted on 11/11/18
I don't believe currently that VVD has improved Liverpool to the extent that I would consider it to be significant.
=====
Showing signs of improvement here lad but still a bit ree t arded. Keep up the good work. Soon you won't need us anymore.
posted on 11/11/18
#bentref and PGMOL cheat to stop Fulham opening goal.
posted on 11/11/18
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
comment by Planète des Singes - (U4158)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Brain (U18701)
posted 8 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 58 minutes ago
But he has significantly improved us, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please see my previous posts for a response and explanation of my view. Feel free to make a useful and positive contribution if you like, but I appreciate that doesn't come easy to you, so I won't raise my expectations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tiresome tripe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly you are unable to make any useful contributions, but I'm sure the irony of your comment is lost on you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet more pointless piffle.
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