comment by palmers_spur - you have a woman's hand my lord (U8896)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by ZahraIhsanphile (U20361)
posted 1 hour, 22 minutes ago
Graham Thorpe was a class act and a wonderful batsman with amazing technique.I used to love watching him bat during my childhood!
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Ok thanks for that
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Tbf, I'd mentioned him a few comments previously.

What will hurt India most is England’s batting never turned up in this series but they have won this series. Atleast India had few 50’s and 100’s here and there. England played this as a team sport where everyone trying to contribute with the runs in tough batting conditions throughout.

India were always playing with one or 2 batsmen with the rest contributing nothing. This approach can only help improve personal records. Until Shastri is there I don’t see this team doing well. Kohli will shine as he enjoys this kind of environment where he is treated like a boss and there is no one to question his decisions but rest of the team are going backwards skill-wise.

comment by TCM (U8959)
posted 5 hours, 43 minutes ago
I think the flaws in this side are so obvious now that changes will be made. I'd like to bring in 2 top 3 batsmen for Jennings and Rashid then move Root and the rest of the batting line up down a place.
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...and Stewart and Collingwood to replace Bayliss and Ramprakash please.

Oh, and those saying Stokes is a bowling all-rounder - not in a million years. Look at his whole career, not just the last few matches. He's way too inconsistent to be anything more than first or second change seamer. He's a good strike bowler but never a consistent frontline bowler. Whereas some of the innings he's played in his career, in all formats, have been genuinely world class. He's not in nick at the minute - hell, every time he finds some form he gets injured or arrested - but his batting is streets ahead of his bowling.

Curran will definitely be a better bat than bowler though. As will Dom Bess. We have a bit of a problem there, since with Woakes and Ali that makes 5 all rounders who really shouldn't be batting lower than 8. They all have different styles though, and they all handle different styles of bowling and different game scenarios with varying success, so that's why I think our middle order should remain fluid. Send the best bat in for the situation.

Burns and Hildreth for Jennings and Rashid please

shambles batting line up beats world No1 test side shock

Lovely...

comment by HaaK (U11574)
posted 9 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by TCM (U8959)
posted 5 hours, 43 minutes ago
I think the flaws in this side are so obvious now that changes will be made. I'd like to bring in 2 top 3 batsmen for Jennings and Rashid then move Root and the rest of the batting line up down a place.
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...and Stewart and Collingwood to replace Bayliss and Ramprakash please.

Oh, and those saying Stokes is a bowling all-rounder - not in a million years. Look at his whole career, not just the last few matches. He's way too inconsistent to be anything more than first or second change seamer. He's a good strike bowler but never a consistent frontline bowler. Whereas some of the innings he's played in his career, in all formats, have been genuinely world class. He's not in nick at the minute - hell, every time he finds some form he gets injured or arrested - but his batting is streets ahead of his bowling.

Curran will definitely be a better bat than bowler though. As will Dom Bess. We have a bit of a problem there, since with Woakes and Ali that makes 5 all rounders who really shouldn't be batting lower than 8. They all have different styles though, and they all handle different styles of bowling and different game scenarios with varying success, so that's why I think our middle order should remain fluid. Send the best bat in for the situation.

Burns and Hildreth for Jennings and Rashid please
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You could also chuck Craig Overton in there who is another bowler who could bat as high as 8 and Tom Curran isn't too bad either.

With the final test being at The Oval, it surely makes sense to bring in Burns. It seems like Moeen will bat at 3, yes it works for Worcestershire where he can flay lower quality bowling but he's not a not a test 3 however he'll be full of confidence after his man of the match winning performance.

I didn't chuck in Overton or Tom Curran given that they've not really been in consideration since they first came and went, but you're not wrong.

Moeen is becoming a bowling all-rounder. He's simply not a top-order Test bat.

Supposedly the thinking is that England will go unchanged for the 5th test. What on earth... What possible point will be proven by keeping Jennings in the team? It's exactly like I've been saying since the 2nd test - this is just constantly deferring the decision because the selectors can't admit they were wrong about the guy.

If he does badly at the Oval? Well, surprise sur-fecking-prise. He should have been axed 3 Tests ago. Well, he never should've been recalled, but that's by the by. The selectors will be criticised for sticking with a batsman who's quite clearly been nowhere near good enough for a long time, and this time could've been used to bed in the next opener.

And even worse - what if he does well at the Oval?! 2 good innings won't reverse the absolute shambles of the first however many innings of his Test career. All it will do is paper over the cracks enough that the selectors will say "Look, there's a Test player in there somewhere" (even though there patently is not), he'll buy himself another try on the winter tours, he'll be pathetic and then we'll have wasted several Tests where we could've been trying someone who had a hope of succeeding.

Ugh. I get so fed up with England's selectors when they don't just lance the facking boil and keep dragging these players along, giving them chance after unmerited chance when everyone can tell they're simply not up to the task.

If Jennings plays at the Oval I'll go forking spare.

Oh, and if they won't call up Hildreth (which they won't) then we don't really have a player mature or experienced enough to bat at 3. The other options like Clarke and Livingstone all bat at 4 and like to play their shots. Hell, even Hildreth doesn't bat at 3 but he's been round the block enough times that he's less likely to be fazed by the pressure. He's also a solid slipper, which can't hurt at the moment.

I would honestly take Ben Stokes aside and say "Look mate, there's a spot at 3 for a proper Test bat to step up and make it their own. I want it to be you. Bat properly, bat long and bat hard. You've got what it takes. You can rest your knees a bit, just be a strike bowler who chucks down 15 overs in an innings, and concentrate on becoming a proper batsman who bowls a bit."

Course, we all know Bayliss' coaching manual is just one page with "GO AND EXPRESS YOURSELVES SMILEYFACE" in massive multicoloured Comic Sans. Facking pleb.

Could always chuck Cook in at 3 I suppose, but that doesn't really solve any problems - we don't have a second opener either, and Cook has probably not batted at 3 since he was about 12

Jennings does offer an option with the ball though which is handy when you have 4 seamers and 2 spinners in the side already...

Cook's retiring from internationals at the end of the series. Just announced. Gawd knows what they're gonna do now.

What I would do: drop Jennings, get Burns in alongside Cook with Burns' partner-elect in at 3 for the 5th test (I'm currently deciding who I think that should be).

What England will do: keep Cook and Jennings for the 5th test. Possibly call up Burns at 3 with a view to him opening alongside Jennings in the Sri Lanka tests.

Ugh, what an utter mess.

Wow! I didn't see that coming but it just proves his mind isn't up to it anymore. He might well fear that he'd get axed after this test anyway so is stepping down.

Firstly to Cook. He's been a fantastic servant for England cricket over the past 12 years and is one of the greatest openers of all time. Probably deserves it's own article, I'm sure Baz will agree.

Secondly, I reckon we'll do what you said, Burns in for Rashid but he will probably bat at 3 with an eye on making him Cook's replacement and keeping Jennings in the side.

don't understand retiring in advance.

what if he scores 200 ?

Then he goes out on a high

Genuinely gutted, more than I expected to be, but also genuinely have nothing but best wishes for the guy.

The thing I'm most pig sick about is that this all but guarantees Jennings' place on the winter tours. Which all but guarantees we'll make no century opening stands.

There really isn't a credible alternative at the minute. It's looking increasingly like we'll have to convert an ODI specialist (like AUS did with David Wa**er) - Hales or Roy, presumably, though I don't like either for the job - or we'll just have to plump for potential and hope Hameed rediscovers which way round to hold the bat.

Promises to be a difficult period ahead, and the pressure on Rory Burns to succeed has just amplified a colossal amount. I really feel like a steady older head like HIldreth could be an inspiration in such a tricky transitional period, and now more than ever I'd want him in at 3 and shoring up the slip cordon (another area where Cook's influence will be sorely missed).

There's no outstanding opening bat who qualifies for England in either Div1 or 2 (Burns aside, obviously). Increasingly looks like someone will need converting.

Hales
Roy
Vince
Bell
Hildreth
Root
Bairstow
Buttler
Ali
Stoneman
Robson
Compton
Lyth

I'd imagine the above names will probably be under consideration, either as recalls or as converted openers... doesn't exactly inspire confidence. I'd probably bet on Jason Roy managing the Wa**er conversion to Tests ahead of most of those other names, and the Surrey connection with Burns would be a benefit, but it's FAR from guaranteed... and besides, I'm probably being biased to Surrey as usual

I'm not counting your Clarkes, Livingstones, Popes etc as I don't think they're going to call up a complete newbie AND convert them to an opening bat at the same time. If they're converting a batsman to an opener, I'd imagine it'll be an established player with some form of international experience.

Speculating wildly, of course

Joe Denly

Knew I was forgetting someone. He's probably quite high up the list of good bets, actually. For the 3 position, at least, maybe with an eye on opening when Jennings is finally taken out back and shot

Then again Denly is only a year younger than Cook, so if he's getting the call there's no excuse not to go for Hildreth too

Denly is a good player but he's adapted his game to a more free scoring player now with the popularity of T20.

England like Gubbins but after his brilliant season for Middlesex a couple of years ago, he's struggled with injuries.

There was high hopes for Bell-Drummond too but he's become an top one day opener and can't replicate that form in first class cricket.

I was keen on England getting Nick Browne in for a while as he was Cook's opening partner at Essex (when Cook played for Essex) but he's not getting anywhere near enough runs now days. A couple of years ago though, I thought he'd compliment Cook quite well.

Yeah I had hopes for DBD. He's a friend of a friend, loosely speaking, and I understand he's a thoroughly decent bloke. Not up to scratch though. He was showing crazy form at the same time as Ben Duckett, and we all know how he ended up...

It's not the end of the world if we're considering free scorers for the opening slot. With the right player (see: Wa**er) it can work phenomenally, which is why Jason Roy could be an intriguing option alongside the more doughty Burns.

There's a whole load of directions the selectors could go, but I'm more and more convinced they'll go with the absolute worst available one - retaining Jennings and calling up Vince at 3.

I think, having considered the options, I would personally lean towards Burns and Roy to open, with Hildreth at 3, Root at 4 and then a flexible middle order depending on pitch and match situation. I'm fully aware that Roy opening for the Test side is not ideal, but none of the available options are short of Hameed having a sudden and miraculous recovery of form.

We shall see.

England should ditch Jennings as well. Just picked 3 new players for the top 3.. If England get just one decent player out of the 3 , it will be worth it.

comment by HaaK (U11574)
posted 36 minutes ago
Yeah I had hopes for DBD. He's a friend of a friend, loosely speaking, and I understand he's a thoroughly decent bloke. Not up to scratch though. He was showing crazy form at the same time as Ben Duckett, and we all know how he ended up...

It's not the end of the world if we're considering free scorers for the opening slot. With the right player (see: Wa**er) it can work phenomenally, which is why Jason Roy could be an intriguing option alongside the more doughty Burns.

There's a whole load of directions the selectors could go, but I'm more and more convinced they'll go with the absolute worst available one - retaining Jennings and calling up Vince at 3.

I think, having considered the options, I would personally lean towards Burns and Roy to open, with Hildreth at 3, Root at 4 and then a flexible middle order depending on pitch and match situation. I'm fully aware that Roy opening for the Test side is not ideal, but none of the available options are short of Hameed having a sudden and miraculous recovery of form.

We shall see.
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Yeah, Duckett was very much a Warner type but it was always going to be a struggle on turning pitches playing his type of expansive game. Although he was supposed to be a good player of spin.

I like the idea of an aggressive type and it might have worked better earlier in the summer when it was blazing hot with the ball less likely to swing. However as we've even seen with the ODI side, when the ball is doing something, those guys at the top really struggle to make scores. It might be different if they can be more patient in a test match but then you're basically asking them to change their approach and as we saw with Hales, he played with in himself, made the odd 30 or 40 with a SR of around 35-40.

I wouldn't be surprised to see us promote Bairstow to open. He had a horrible game being given the responsibility of batting at 4 (albeit with a broken finger) so we'll probably say, you're not a 4... you're a test opener.

thing is, there can't be any point picking him for the oval test now.

it's a send off to an England great, but that's it.

complete waste of an opportunity to blood someone who might be of value to the team going forward.

if he's going to retire, there's an argument to say he should just say "that's it, i'm finished"

comment by J (capitalised) (U21740)
posted 5 minutes ago
thing is, there can't be any point picking him for the oval test now.

it's a send off to an England great, but that's it.

complete waste of an opportunity to blood someone who might be of value to the team going forward.

if he's going to retire, there's an argument to say he should just say "that's it, i'm finished"
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I would agree, except that (a) Cook deserves a proper send-off for the career he's had, (b) the series is already won so there's no harm in it, and (c) Jennings and Rashid really ought to be dropped and two new specialist batsmen brought in instead.

We should be able to blood two new top-order bats (Burns at 2 and Hildreth/Roy/Denly at 3), while also leaving room for Cook to get his deserved last hurrah. Course, the selectors will ruin that by keeping Jennings in the team, meaning that we only have room to call up one new bat (most likely Burns in place of Rashid, though gawd knows they might even call up Vince) and they'll bat at 3 behind Cook and Jennings.

Haak its likely Woakes will replace Rashid (if Woakes is fit that is)