'So I ask, what do spurs need to do differently to win titles and trophies, if not strengthen their squad?'
I've always thought we've lacked a star quality 1 v 1 player
Chelsea have had Hazard to drag them to titles
Hopefully Moura can provide this for us
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Gedin (U1109)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 31 minutes ago
Okay Spurs fans, let’s flip this on its head.
If you’re so well equipped, why aren’t you winning trophies?
I don’t mean that as a wind up.
Genuine question - what are you missing, if the quality of your squad is sufficient?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’re ultimately missing out due to both luck and timing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what way, timing?
And luck? Seriously? Dear me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Timing in the sense that our current team/tactics would have won any year between 2011-2016. Yet by the time our players/managers became finally good enough we came up against one of the greatest PL squads/teams - certainly the best since 09/10.
Luck as in we came second to a Chelsea side who had no CL football which played a huge factor - thus they had no injuries or burnout in their team. Luck as in the last two FA Cups we got drawn the only team in the competition who was higher than us in the league. Luck as in last season we had the group of death in the CL and then faced the best second placed team that wasn't in our group.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Garth (U21740)
posted 51 seconds ago
I haven't read the thread in detail, but isn't the point being made that there's no area of weakness in the squad ? I doubt anyone\s saying we have the 19 best players in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, people (me) saying that I think the depth of quality needs to be better in your squad are being told they’re wrong.
So I ask, what do spurs need to do differently to win titles and trophies, if not strengthen their squad?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ok, well maybe the issue isn't depth of quality.
everyone says that our first team is brilliant, and it is, but it's not as good as city\s is it ?
that's not about depth.
the only real drp[ off in quality is kane to llorente.
lamella and son are almost as good as alli and moura
sanchez aint bad to have on the bench. the full backs seem to swap every week.
Wanyama and winks.
maybe dier could be improved, but everyone loves him.
it's fine. we're happy
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 6 minutes ago
'So I ask, what do spurs need to do differently to win titles and trophies, if not strengthen their squad?'
I've always thought we've lacked a star quality 1 v 1 player
Chelsea have had Hazard to drag them to titles
Hopefully Moura can provide this for us
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough. I don’t think he’s anywhere near that level myself.
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Gedin (U1109)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 31 minutes ago
Okay Spurs fans, let’s flip this on its head.
If you’re so well equipped, why aren’t you winning trophies?
I don’t mean that as a wind up.
Genuine question - what are you missing, if the quality of your squad is sufficient?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’re ultimately missing out due to both luck and timing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what way, timing?
And luck? Seriously? Dear me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Timing in the sense that our current team/tactics would have won any year between 2011-2016. Yet by the time our players/managers became finally good enough we came up against one of the greatest PL squads/teams - certainly the best since 09/10.
Luck as in we came second to a Chelsea side who had no CL football which played a huge factor - thus they had no injuries or burnout in their team. Luck as in the last two FA Cups we got drawn the only team in the competition who was higher than us in the league. Luck as in last season we had the group of death in the CL and then faced the best second placed team that wasn't in our group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I don’t buy that. The best teams don’t blame losses on luck.
Once or twice, maybe. But that’s not good enough as a consistent reason.
comment by Garth (U21740)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Garth (U21740)
posted 51 seconds ago
I haven't read the thread in detail, but isn't the point being made that there's no area of weakness in the squad ? I doubt anyone\s saying we have the 19 best players in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, people (me) saying that I think the depth of quality needs to be better in your squad are being told they’re wrong.
So I ask, what do spurs need to do differently to win titles and trophies, if not strengthen their squad?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ok, well maybe the issue isn't depth of quality.
everyone says that our first team is brilliant, and it is, but it's not as good as city\s is it ?
that's not about depth.
the only real drp[ off in quality is kane to llorente.
lamella and son are almost as good as alli and moura
sanchez aint bad to have on the bench. the full backs seem to swap every week.
Wanyama and winks.
maybe dier could be improved, but everyone loves him.
it's fine. we're happy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t blame you for being happy - but that wasn’t the point being discussed, was it?
People have given some fair reasons. I don’t agree with them, but they’re fair.
But ultimately time will tell.
If you win nothing this year and next, you can’t keep saying that you’re waiting for the squad to mature or for luck to change etc.
We've only been "the best team" (a team deserving of winning a trophy) for like two years though.
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
We've only been "the best team" (a team deserving of winning a trophy) for like two years though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how long would you give it before you start questioning whether this squad is really as good as you think it is - ie good enough to win titles and trophies.
I think another factor in cup competitions is Poch, for as good as he is as a manager, isn't the best tactician. The best tacticians, your Allegri's, Mourinho's etc know how to beat the teams better than them in the cups through in-game management or tactical surprises. Poch hasn't developed that skill yet, however he is getting better.
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 2 seconds ago
I think another factor in cup competitions is Poch, for as good as he is as a manager, isn't the best tactician. The best tacticians, your Allegri's, Mourinho's etc know how to beat the teams better than them in the cups through in-game management or tactical surprises. Poch hasn't developed that skill yet, however he is getting better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting point, have heard a few people say that. You think he’ll improve with more exposure to CL football, or is it a flaw with him?
'Fair enough. I don’t think he’s anywhere near that level myself.'
He's nowhere near Hazard obviously. Just what he provides our team is something different. Our main attacking players these past three seasons, Kane, Eriksen and Dele, are all top players but aren't exceptionally fast or great 1v1. Son's the one who's been providing that for us the past 2 seasons, and I wouldn't class him as a 1v1 player, more of a goal scoring wideman
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
We've only been "the best team" (a team deserving of winning a trophy) for like two years though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how long would you give it before you start questioning whether this squad is really as good as you think it is - ie good enough to win titles and trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The squad is good enough to win the title though, typically. Unfortunately we are up against possibly the most dominant footballing dynasty to play in the PL.
Analog
Okay, I see what you mean.
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
We've only been "the best team" (a team deserving of winning a trophy) for like two years though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how long would you give it before you start questioning whether this squad is really as good as you think it is - ie good enough to win titles and trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The squad is good enough to win the title though, typically. Unfortunately we are up against possibly the most dominant footballing dynasty to play in the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that’s an exaggeration at this present moment, but take your point.
But there are other trophies to win, and it’s not as if you finished second last season, is it?
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 2 seconds ago
I think another factor in cup competitions is Poch, for as good as he is as a manager, isn't the best tactician. The best tacticians, your Allegri's, Mourinho's etc know how to beat the teams better than them in the cups through in-game management or tactical surprises. Poch hasn't developed that skill yet, however he is getting better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting point, have heard a few people say that. You think he’ll improve with more exposure to CL football, or is it a flaw with him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it is because he is inexperienced really.
16/17 he only knew how to play in one formation - 4231.
Now he can vary that up more, with us playing 523, 4231, 4141, 51212 in the past year.
He also used to be the worst when it came to substitutions, changing formations etc. He is getting much better at it now though.
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 2 seconds ago
I think another factor in cup competitions is Poch, for as good as he is as a manager, isn't the best tactician. The best tacticians, your Allegri's, Mourinho's etc know how to beat the teams better than them in the cups through in-game management or tactical surprises. Poch hasn't developed that skill yet, however he is getting better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting point, have heard a few people say that. You think he’ll improve with more exposure to CL football, or is it a flaw with him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it is because he is inexperienced really.
16/17 he only knew how to play in one formation - 4231.
Now he can vary that up more, with us playing 523, 4231, 4141, 51212 in the past year.
He also used to be the worst when it came to substitutions, changing formations etc. He is getting much better at it now though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pochs subs in the Fulham game were very good, you can see the improvement
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
We've only been "the best team" (a team deserving of winning a trophy) for like two years though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how long would you give it before you start questioning whether this squad is really as good as you think it is - ie good enough to win titles and trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The squad is good enough to win the title though, typically. Unfortunately we are up against possibly the most dominant footballing dynasty to play in the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that’s an exaggeration at this present moment, but take your point.
But there are other trophies to win, and it’s not as if you finished second last season, is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we don't have too many injuries, have a relatively straight forward run in a cup competition we could win something. If we finish third in our CL group and drop down to the Europa I think we could win something.
Thanks all for the chat, interesting perspective and exciting time to be a Spurs fan, even though we don’t necessarily agree fully on all points.
Cheers.
'16/17 he only knew how to play in one formation - 4231.'
Not disputing your point but we played 3421 loads that season
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 1 minute ago
'16/17 he only knew how to play in one formation - 4231.'
Not disputing your point but we played 3421 loads that season
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I only really remember playing that vs Watford but yeh the point is more about the lack of flexibility previously.
I think you're thinking of the 15/16 season mate
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think you're thinking of the 15/16 season mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes 15/16 ( Lesta season ) rigid 4231
16/17 3 cb season > Waynama DM
Sign in if you want to comment
Spurs 'Thin Squad' Myth
Page 5 of 6
6
posted on 29/8/18
'So I ask, what do spurs need to do differently to win titles and trophies, if not strengthen their squad?'
I've always thought we've lacked a star quality 1 v 1 player
Chelsea have had Hazard to drag them to titles
Hopefully Moura can provide this for us
posted on 29/8/18
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Gedin (U1109)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 31 minutes ago
Okay Spurs fans, let’s flip this on its head.
If you’re so well equipped, why aren’t you winning trophies?
I don’t mean that as a wind up.
Genuine question - what are you missing, if the quality of your squad is sufficient?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’re ultimately missing out due to both luck and timing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what way, timing?
And luck? Seriously? Dear me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Timing in the sense that our current team/tactics would have won any year between 2011-2016. Yet by the time our players/managers became finally good enough we came up against one of the greatest PL squads/teams - certainly the best since 09/10.
Luck as in we came second to a Chelsea side who had no CL football which played a huge factor - thus they had no injuries or burnout in their team. Luck as in the last two FA Cups we got drawn the only team in the competition who was higher than us in the league. Luck as in last season we had the group of death in the CL and then faced the best second placed team that wasn't in our group.
posted on 29/8/18
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Garth (U21740)
posted 51 seconds ago
I haven't read the thread in detail, but isn't the point being made that there's no area of weakness in the squad ? I doubt anyone\s saying we have the 19 best players in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, people (me) saying that I think the depth of quality needs to be better in your squad are being told they’re wrong.
So I ask, what do spurs need to do differently to win titles and trophies, if not strengthen their squad?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ok, well maybe the issue isn't depth of quality.
everyone says that our first team is brilliant, and it is, but it's not as good as city\s is it ?
that's not about depth.
the only real drp[ off in quality is kane to llorente.
lamella and son are almost as good as alli and moura
sanchez aint bad to have on the bench. the full backs seem to swap every week.
Wanyama and winks.
maybe dier could be improved, but everyone loves him.
it's fine. we're happy
posted on 29/8/18
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 6 minutes ago
'So I ask, what do spurs need to do differently to win titles and trophies, if not strengthen their squad?'
I've always thought we've lacked a star quality 1 v 1 player
Chelsea have had Hazard to drag them to titles
Hopefully Moura can provide this for us
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough. I don’t think he’s anywhere near that level myself.
posted on 29/8/18
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Gedin (U1109)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 31 minutes ago
Okay Spurs fans, let’s flip this on its head.
If you’re so well equipped, why aren’t you winning trophies?
I don’t mean that as a wind up.
Genuine question - what are you missing, if the quality of your squad is sufficient?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’re ultimately missing out due to both luck and timing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what way, timing?
And luck? Seriously? Dear me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Timing in the sense that our current team/tactics would have won any year between 2011-2016. Yet by the time our players/managers became finally good enough we came up against one of the greatest PL squads/teams - certainly the best since 09/10.
Luck as in we came second to a Chelsea side who had no CL football which played a huge factor - thus they had no injuries or burnout in their team. Luck as in the last two FA Cups we got drawn the only team in the competition who was higher than us in the league. Luck as in last season we had the group of death in the CL and then faced the best second placed team that wasn't in our group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I don’t buy that. The best teams don’t blame losses on luck.
Once or twice, maybe. But that’s not good enough as a consistent reason.
posted on 29/8/18
comment by Garth (U21740)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Garth (U21740)
posted 51 seconds ago
I haven't read the thread in detail, but isn't the point being made that there's no area of weakness in the squad ? I doubt anyone\s saying we have the 19 best players in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, people (me) saying that I think the depth of quality needs to be better in your squad are being told they’re wrong.
So I ask, what do spurs need to do differently to win titles and trophies, if not strengthen their squad?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ok, well maybe the issue isn't depth of quality.
everyone says that our first team is brilliant, and it is, but it's not as good as city\s is it ?
that's not about depth.
the only real drp[ off in quality is kane to llorente.
lamella and son are almost as good as alli and moura
sanchez aint bad to have on the bench. the full backs seem to swap every week.
Wanyama and winks.
maybe dier could be improved, but everyone loves him.
it's fine. we're happy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t blame you for being happy - but that wasn’t the point being discussed, was it?
People have given some fair reasons. I don’t agree with them, but they’re fair.
But ultimately time will tell.
If you win nothing this year and next, you can’t keep saying that you’re waiting for the squad to mature or for luck to change etc.
posted on 29/8/18
We've only been "the best team" (a team deserving of winning a trophy) for like two years though.
posted on 29/8/18
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
We've only been "the best team" (a team deserving of winning a trophy) for like two years though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how long would you give it before you start questioning whether this squad is really as good as you think it is - ie good enough to win titles and trophies.
posted on 29/8/18
I think another factor in cup competitions is Poch, for as good as he is as a manager, isn't the best tactician. The best tacticians, your Allegri's, Mourinho's etc know how to beat the teams better than them in the cups through in-game management or tactical surprises. Poch hasn't developed that skill yet, however he is getting better.
posted on 29/8/18
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 2 seconds ago
I think another factor in cup competitions is Poch, for as good as he is as a manager, isn't the best tactician. The best tacticians, your Allegri's, Mourinho's etc know how to beat the teams better than them in the cups through in-game management or tactical surprises. Poch hasn't developed that skill yet, however he is getting better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting point, have heard a few people say that. You think he’ll improve with more exposure to CL football, or is it a flaw with him?
posted on 29/8/18
'Fair enough. I don’t think he’s anywhere near that level myself.'
He's nowhere near Hazard obviously. Just what he provides our team is something different. Our main attacking players these past three seasons, Kane, Eriksen and Dele, are all top players but aren't exceptionally fast or great 1v1. Son's the one who's been providing that for us the past 2 seasons, and I wouldn't class him as a 1v1 player, more of a goal scoring wideman
posted on 29/8/18
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
We've only been "the best team" (a team deserving of winning a trophy) for like two years though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how long would you give it before you start questioning whether this squad is really as good as you think it is - ie good enough to win titles and trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The squad is good enough to win the title though, typically. Unfortunately we are up against possibly the most dominant footballing dynasty to play in the PL.
posted on 29/8/18
Analog
Okay, I see what you mean.
posted on 29/8/18
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
We've only been "the best team" (a team deserving of winning a trophy) for like two years though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how long would you give it before you start questioning whether this squad is really as good as you think it is - ie good enough to win titles and trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The squad is good enough to win the title though, typically. Unfortunately we are up against possibly the most dominant footballing dynasty to play in the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that’s an exaggeration at this present moment, but take your point.
But there are other trophies to win, and it’s not as if you finished second last season, is it?
posted on 29/8/18
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 2 seconds ago
I think another factor in cup competitions is Poch, for as good as he is as a manager, isn't the best tactician. The best tacticians, your Allegri's, Mourinho's etc know how to beat the teams better than them in the cups through in-game management or tactical surprises. Poch hasn't developed that skill yet, however he is getting better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting point, have heard a few people say that. You think he’ll improve with more exposure to CL football, or is it a flaw with him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it is because he is inexperienced really.
16/17 he only knew how to play in one formation - 4231.
Now he can vary that up more, with us playing 523, 4231, 4141, 51212 in the past year.
He also used to be the worst when it came to substitutions, changing formations etc. He is getting much better at it now though.
posted on 29/8/18
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 2 seconds ago
I think another factor in cup competitions is Poch, for as good as he is as a manager, isn't the best tactician. The best tacticians, your Allegri's, Mourinho's etc know how to beat the teams better than them in the cups through in-game management or tactical surprises. Poch hasn't developed that skill yet, however he is getting better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting point, have heard a few people say that. You think he’ll improve with more exposure to CL football, or is it a flaw with him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it is because he is inexperienced really.
16/17 he only knew how to play in one formation - 4231.
Now he can vary that up more, with us playing 523, 4231, 4141, 51212 in the past year.
He also used to be the worst when it came to substitutions, changing formations etc. He is getting much better at it now though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pochs subs in the Fulham game were very good, you can see the improvement
posted on 29/8/18
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
We've only been "the best team" (a team deserving of winning a trophy) for like two years though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how long would you give it before you start questioning whether this squad is really as good as you think it is - ie good enough to win titles and trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The squad is good enough to win the title though, typically. Unfortunately we are up against possibly the most dominant footballing dynasty to play in the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that’s an exaggeration at this present moment, but take your point.
But there are other trophies to win, and it’s not as if you finished second last season, is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we don't have too many injuries, have a relatively straight forward run in a cup competition we could win something. If we finish third in our CL group and drop down to the Europa I think we could win something.
posted on 29/8/18
Thanks all for the chat, interesting perspective and exciting time to be a Spurs fan, even though we don’t necessarily agree fully on all points.
Cheers.
posted on 29/8/18
You too bud
posted on 29/8/18
posted on 29/8/18
'16/17 he only knew how to play in one formation - 4231.'
Not disputing your point but we played 3421 loads that season
posted on 29/8/18
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 1 minute ago
'16/17 he only knew how to play in one formation - 4231.'
Not disputing your point but we played 3421 loads that season
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I only really remember playing that vs Watford but yeh the point is more about the lack of flexibility previously.
posted on 29/8/18
I think you're thinking of the 15/16 season mate
posted on 29/8/18
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think you're thinking of the 15/16 season mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes 15/16 ( Lesta season ) rigid 4231
16/17 3 cb season > Waynama DM
posted on 29/8/18
FFS yeah meant that one
Page 5 of 6
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