So anyone who voted differently to you is stupid ?

Ergo everyone is stupid !!

You should be yourself.

Please go through these valid reasons for leaving that align with what is actually possible in the world and EU framework the UK helped design (without completely destroying the economy)
_________

Well I could post a load of links for you to read but that wasn't my point. My point was that you implied Leavers are all bandwagonning idiots who are easily duped, but I've heard more varied reasons from Leavers personally and all I've heard from Remainers is arrogant certainty and the same repeated reasoning - because the bulk of Remainers seem to frequent the same circles and echo each other's opinions (usually as if they're concrete fact) - that's bandwagonning if you ask me. Plus there was plenty of propaganda flying around from pro-Remain organisations and high profile businessmen so it's not like no Remainers were influenced by that. I firmly believe that most people voted in good faith and with more knowledge than Remainers would have everyone believe.

WWSPD
________

I completely agree. Why can't everyone just admit they're not experts and voted to the best of their ability on stuff that they'd read up on - which is all you can do really, apart from abstaining.

Instead you've got everyone pretending to be economists and repeating stats they've read in whichever biased media outlet they read.

I am a remainer, but I absolutely do not want another vote. I want us to leave now, with or without a deal, just to show what absolute folly it was to do so. I want the country to really go down the pan, and then hold all the Brexiteers to account, just to show what damage they have done to the country. Hopefully these sort of referendums will never again take place.

Turkeys voting for Christmas, should be allowed to get their way.

A lot of hard working people did vote leave because overtime pay which they relied on was decimated as more people were available for these low skilled jobs.

This is down to the corporations and government at large not providing for these folks in the way of living wages.

why should someone have to rely on overtime and put their work/life balance out of kilter?

there are a lot of these people out there who dont give a crap about freedom of movement for themselves or families as they just cannot afford to think past their next wage slip.

Im an ardent remainer but this argument was explained to me by a consultant at one of the big four.

its time the government properly introduced this living wage.

comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 1 minute ago
A lot of hard working people did vote leave because overtime pay which they relied on was decimated as more people were available for these low skilled jobs.

This is down to the corporations and government at large not providing for these folks in the way of living wages.

why should someone have to rely on overtime and put their work/life balance out of kilter?

there are a lot of these people out there who dont give a crap about freedom of movement for themselves or families as they just cannot afford to think past their next wage slip.

Im an ardent remainer but this argument was explained to me by a consultant at one of the big four.

its time the government properly introduced this living wage.
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"Im an ardent remainer but this argument was explained to me by a consultant at one of the big four."

Was It Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea? The big four is completely outdated and should not be used in modern day politics. If you want to talk about the big guys, you have to include City and Spurs, as much as it pains me to say it.

stfup mate its a serious comment. Youd act the maggot at a funeral and all wouldnt you?

Still amazed that some people thought we would leave the EU and get a better deal than EU members.

Human stupidity is amazing sometimes

comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 5 minutes ago
WWSPD
________

I completely agree. Why can't everyone just admit they're not experts and voted to the best of their ability on stuff that they'd read up on - which is all you can do really, apart from abstaining.

Instead you've got everyone pretending to be economists and repeating stats they've read in whichever biased media outlet they read.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I first started researching Brexit a few years ago I'd very little idea how the EU functioned. It was there, and was on the news time to time...

And over a few years later there are still vast amounts (EU agencies etc that we rely on) that remains unfamiliar.

The notion folk could make an in/out decision on a multifaceted/complex topic was nonsensical.

Most people couldn’t name their own MEP, never mind what their job role(s).

Nor have a clue that UK security agencies rely on the Schengen information system for (real time) counter terrorism/security, Europol, URAMUS2, Horizon, PEACE, Euratom, and countless other EU agencies we helped set up, and manage which have been mutually beneficial.

The message was either WW3 or an invasion of Turks...

Redinthehead:

The overtime/underpaid argument is one I've heard mentioned a bit from people I know. And when you've got high profile business leaders coming out saying Brexit will be bad for business, you can see why some people questioned why a business owner might be saying that - could it be that he benefits from the low-wage workforce that the EU provides?

But the middle class Remainers don't speak to people in that predicament so aren't bothered about it.

MUDD:

I think the idea was that there would be other deals to be had without interference from the EU. Whether that's possible or not, people probably voted for that, not because they're just morons who didn't know what they were doing.

comment by RonAlvinho - Victoria Concordia Pathetic (U6117)
posted 50 minutes ago
Nothing like using football as a politcal tool

I think if there was a "People's vote" with three choices - Remain in EU, Leave with no deal or Leave with the 'Chequers' deal, then it would be an overwhelming loss to the chequers. This pretty much sums up how the government has handled Brexit.

I reckon a vote would be something like:
Remain in the EU - 65%
Leave with no deal - 30%
Take the Chequers deal - 5%

A majority of those who were on the fence and swung in favor of Leave, aren't particularly passionate about it and would most probably vote the other way now with a bit of a "meh" attitude - whether that's right or wrong.

I don't think it would be undemocratic to have another vote.
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I don't get why they simply don't just do it in two parts.

Question A: leave or remain

Question B: in the event leave wins, soft or hard Brexit etc.

If remain wins then question B becomes void.

This being a football forum I will restrict my comments to solely football issues.

Much as I would like to see each and every club, high or low, stacked out with UK/Irish players, the reality of life in the game is that the talent that was there before in those heady days of Dalglish, Souness, KK, Jocky, Rush, Crazy Horse, etc., for our own club aren't there any more.

So, what, or who has come in? An exciting mix from nearly all four corners of the earth. Look no further than our own front three, from Senegal, Egypt and Brazil. Is there talent from within the U.K. that are already identifiable as being able to take their place? No, I didn't think so either.

Brexit is still a long way from being landed. Both in the meantime, and beyond, business - money in our world - will dictate who can come and play for our club,irrespective of where they were born.

WWSPD:

Exactly. You've done a lot of research by the sounds of it and came to that conclusion. The vote was far too simplistic considering all the factors. But then what do you do, have an enforced reading session for every member of the voting public? It's tricky.

comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 5 minutes ago
WWSPD
________

I completely agree. Why can't everyone just admit they're not experts and voted to the best of their ability on stuff that they'd read up on - which is all you can do really, apart from abstaining.

Instead you've got everyone pretending to be economists and repeating stats they've read in whichever biased media outlet they read.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I first started researching Brexit a few years ago I'd very little idea how the EU functioned. It was there, and was on the news time to time...

And over a few years later there are still vast amounts (EU agencies etc that we rely on) that remains unfamiliar.

The notion folk could make an in/out decision on a multifaceted/complex topic was nonsensical.

Most people couldn’t name their own MEP, never mind what their job role(s).

Nor have a clue that UK security agencies rely on the Schengen information system for (real time) counter terrorism/security, Europol, URAMUS2, Horizon, PEACE, Euratom, and countless other EU agencies we helped set up, and manage which have been mutually beneficial.

The message was either WW3 or an invasion of Turks...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Another thing a lot of people forgot to read up about was that you can actually control immigration within the EU.

That was why Cameron was able to put limits on particular things and why the Germans and Belgians have a 3 month period for people to find work or leave. We could not be bothered doing that and chose to demonise people whose only crime was coming here to work.

People also did not read up on the WTO and our membership of it through the EU. All our trade deals are through the EU as a 500 million population market.

Any deals we negotiate on our own will be worse as we are 60 million market.

Argentina, New Zealand, Spain and the USA have also promised to stop any deals we get that give us parity with the current EU deal.

The Brexit white paper also clearly stated "Parliament was Always Sovereign".

It is quite unfortunate how little research some people did.

MEPs are elected, EU president is elected.

Unelected bureaucrats indeed

We also lose our veto and to trade in the EU we will still be subject to EU regulations (we used to influence this to getting our way 95% of the time).

We will still be bound by the ECJ and ECHR to trade in Europe.

Some of these things were obvious from the outset but people refused to engage their brains and listened to the disaster capitalists, Dyson and JCB in China and Johnson who admitted yesterday that parliament has always been sovereign and Gove who had enough of experts.

We mock the Americans but truly, our electorate is equally thick

comment by sandy YNWA (U20567)
posted 23 minutes ago
I am a remainer, but I absolutely do not want another vote. I want us to leave now, with or without a deal, just to show what absolute folly it was to do so. I want the country to really go down the pan, and then hold all the Brexiteers to account, just to show what damage they have done to the country. Hopefully these sort of referendums will never again take place.

Turkeys voting for Christmas, should be allowed to get their way.
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Appreciate the sentiment sandy but we all know they'll shift the blame onto the EU or the government or even remain voters if it's anything but a success.

As much as I'd like to be right, I really don't want the country going down the pan in the prime years of my life.

But the middle class Remainers don't speak to people in that predicament so aren't bothered about it.

---------------
middle class leavers didnt give a crap about them either, nor high profile leavers.

theyd be "alright jack" as they have the cash to withstand extreme shocks that even a hard Brexit will bring and then enrich themselves on the carcass that remains.

Akin to Rothschild in the aftermath of the napoleonic wars, they got the info that Britain had won, started selling off, every man and his dog followed suit while Rothschild started buying it all back again.

Think of all the land and resources these rich toffs could buy and have so many people under their yoke after two years of hard brexit hardship.

comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 5 minutes ago
Redinthehead:

The overtime/underpaid argument is one I've heard mentioned a bit from people I know. And when you've got high profile business leaders coming out saying Brexit will be bad for business, you can see why some people questioned why a business owner might be saying that - could it be that he benefits from the low-wage workforce that the EU provides?

But the middle class Remainers don't speak to people in that predicament so aren't bothered about it.

MUDD:

I think the idea was that there would be other deals to be had without interference from the EU. Whether that's possible or not, people probably voted for that, not because they're just morons who didn't know what they were doing.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

What other deals are those? I asked many Brexiteers and they point to New Zealand which is about 2 billion.

The GDP of Africa is about the same as the GDP of France.

There are like 30 countries in the world that can afford our products and services and 27 of them are EU members.

David Cameron gambled with this country and all that will happen is we weaken ourselves and lose our seat at the table.

comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 2 minutes ago
WWSPD:

Exactly. You've done a lot of research by the sounds of it and came to that conclusion. The vote was far too simplistic considering all the factors. But then what do you do, have an enforced reading session for every member of the voting public?It's tricky.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Caneron did not bother to state on the paper

Remain keep everything as it should be

Leave
Option 1 - Leave but stay in Single Market
Option 2 - Leave but Stay in Customs Union
Option 3- Leave the Customs Union and Single Market

The outcomes should have been explained as well.

comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 4 minutes ago
Redinthehead:

The overtime/underpaid argument is one I've heard mentioned a bit from people I know. And when you've got high profile business leaders coming out saying Brexit will be bad for business, you can see why some people questioned why a business owner might be saying that - could it be that he benefits from the low-wage workforce that the EU provides?

But the middle class Remainers don't speak to people in that predicament so aren't bothered about it.

MUDD:

I think the idea was that there would be other deals to be had without interference from the EU. Whether that's possible or not, people probably voted for that, not because they're just morons who didn't know what they were doing.


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Ironically the Posted Workers Directive (2018) will ensure equal pay for posted worker across the EU/EEA.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20180524IPR04230/posting-of-workers-final-vote-on-equal-pay-and-working-conditions

In regard to trade the EU has more preferential trade agreements than any other trade bloc/nation on the planet.

Google EU treaties database. There’s around 800 of them.

Hopefully these sort of referendums will never again take place.
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Go live in North Korea if you're not happy

comment by San Miguel (U1449)
posted 7 seconds ago
Hopefully these sort of referendums will never again take place.
---------
Go live in North Korea if you're not happy

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A truly stupid statement to make. In democracy, dissent is accepted. You sound like a North Korean

As for the Premier League, I want us to develop local talent and foreign imports. We can do both together, not at the expense of one.

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by San Miguel (U1449)
posted 7 seconds ago
Hopefully these sort of referendums will never again take place.
---------
Go live in North Korea if you're not happy

----------------------------------------------------------------------

A truly stupid statement to make. In democracy, dissent is accepted. You sound like a North Korean
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Err excuse me, I'm not the one who wants to do away with democracy

Cast away forward and throw away aft !,.... and sail mindlessly away into the wide and wild north Atlantic .

I'm glad I jumped ship.