comment by T Bone Steak Roysters (U3947)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'd be surprised if Man Utd players were top of anything other than getting men behind the ball under Jose.
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Henderson has been at the top end if the stats under a few managers now.


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Not sure how that is relevant to my point?

kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)

What makes you think I'm judging him on 12 games?

I'm judging him what I've seen since he joined the club.

comment by T Bone Steak Roysters (U3947)
posted 3 minutes ago
Also Henderson captained England. That is something Herrera can never say
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Well no, because he is Spanish.

comment by _Viva_Vida (U6044)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by T Bone Steak Roysters (U3947)
posted 3 minutes ago
Also Henderson captained England. That is something Herrera can never say
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Well no, because he is Spanish.
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Also winston the majority of Herrera success under Ole has been v weak midfields. He struggled badly when pressed by PSG and Spurs and to me the best midfielders cam handle beong pressed.

comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a man who doesn't drink but I do trust James Milner (U6374)
posted 9 minutes ago
Matic is the superior footballer
=======

I used to rate your footy knowledge. If Matic was a better footballer he'd be able to play as many positions. He can't.
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It's hardly a partisan boast. Matic hasn't been an elite player for us. He was imperious in his first season at Chelsea (up there with the best central midfielders in the Prem in the last ten years) and before that at Benfica. Unlike today's vintage, that player was superior to Henderson in ability - I don't think that's a particularly controversial statement.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)

What makes you think I'm judging him on 12 games?

I'm judging him what I've seen since he joined the club.
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Judging Herrera on the previous few seasons means you're judging him based on managers who cannot get the best out of him. Clearly this means you're not judging him at his best and he's capable of more.

We see that because we see him week in, week out.

For context - see Rashford and Martial.



From this, might have taken it up wrong but you say were judging him on previous few seasons under managers who dis t get the best out of him and that's wrong, but then say you're judging him on his time at the club which would be majority the last 3 seasons?

How long is he at the club?

comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 3 minutes ago
Also winston the majority of Herrera success under Ole has been v weak midfields. He struggled badly when pressed by PSG and Spurs and to me the best midfielders cam handle beong pressed.
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Hmm, I sort of agree but I actually think he's been a good player for us against Spurs - even under Jose.

But I'm not claiming he's some sort of world beater and agree we could do better.

Regarding the second post, all I'm saying is that whilst he didn't shine under Jose, those of us who see him live on a regular basis can begin to form a better judgement of him - same as Martial and Rashford.

I was always convinced that those players would shine with the right manager, and that must be because of what we see when we watch a player ourselves... you just get a feel for it, even if overall their performances are average.

comment by _Viva_Vida (U6044)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by T Bone Steak Roysters (U3947)
posted 3 minutes ago
Also Henderson captained England. That is something Herrera can never say
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Well no, because he is Spanish.
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comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a man who doesn't drink but I do trust James Milner (U6374)
posted 9 minutes ago
Matic is the superior footballer
=======

I used to rate your footy knowledge. If Matic was a better footballer he'd be able to play as many positions. He can't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It's hardly a partisan boast. Matic hasn't been an elite player for us. He was imperious in his first season at Chelsea (up there with the best central midfielders in the Prem in the last ten years) and before that at Benfica. Unlike today's vintage, that player was superior to Henderson in ability - I don't think that's a particularly controversial statement.
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Tbh I've never been a fan at any stage of his career. It's arguable but I can't imagine Matic playing RM can you. Is his touch better? Nope. One touch passing? Nope. Long passing? Nope.

In fact what is it that makes you think he's better other than a purple patch at Chelsea?

up there with the best central midfielders in the Prem in the last ten years
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And no.

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a man who doesn't drink but I do trust James Milner (U6374)
posted 9 minutes ago
Matic is the superior footballer
=======

I used to rate your footy knowledge. If Matic was a better footballer he'd be able to play as many positions. He can't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It's hardly a partisan boast. Matic hasn't been an elite player for us. He was imperious in his first season at Chelsea (up there with the best central midfielders in the Prem in the last ten years) and before that at Benfica. Unlike today's vintage, that player was superior to Henderson in ability - I don't think that's a particularly controversial statement.
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I don't believe your opinion that Henderson should be compared against Matic as they're similar is correct. Yes they have played the deepest role in midfield however both roles are very different as required by the different tactical approaches. Matic is a tackler, far better Henderson and this is why people prefer Fabinho in this role and before injuries to our centre backs where he was playing. Henderson however is a passer, who keeps the ball moving and turns defence into attack, he's far better than Matic at this.

United have been playing with a pure defensive midfielder with Herrera sitting next to him but given license to get forward. Whereas Liverpool play with three midfielders who are required to press hard and pass the ball to the three players in attack. It's therefore expected that Herrera will get more assists and goals. When we have played with a more attacking midfielder, ie Shaqiri, in less minutes he has more goals and assists combined.

I do agree that Henderson and Herrera are different players but if you ask me who is a better player and who does his job better, that's clearly Henderson.

Jordan Henderson shares his name with Michael Jordan. The greatest Basketball player ever worth millions thanks to his shoe brand.

Anders is just the Spanish way of saying Andrew. Andrew Jordan is some wannabe touring car driver.

Ergo, Hendo > Herrera

Here's what I have to say on this:

I do agree that Henderson and Herrera are different players but if you ask me who is a better player and who does his job better, that's clearly Herrera.

If you ignore his career pre 2019 that's a great point as always Winston.

In fact even that is wrong

I suspect you don't even know what Henderson job is tbh.

comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a man who doesn't drink but I do trust James Milner (U6374)
posted 3 minutes ago
In fact even that is wrong

I suspect you don't even know what Henderson job is tbh.
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What’s that sound?

Oh - it’s just my point flying over your head.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
Here's what I have to say on this:

I do agree that Henderson and Herrera are different players but if you ask me who is a better player and who does his job better, that's clearly Herrera.


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You still haven't put forward any reasons, just ridiculed the reasons that others have put forward. I know why, you can't. There is no feasible reason anybody can put forward that gives any weight to Herrera being better. Just think about it.

comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
Here's what I have to say on this:

I do agree that Henderson and Herrera are different players but if you ask me who is a better player and who does his job better, that's clearly Herrera.


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You still haven't put forward any reasons, just ridiculed the reasons that others have put forward. I know why, you can't. There is no feasible reason anybody can put forward that gives any weight to Herrera being better. Just think about it.
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Like when someone said passing and because you don’t agree you wrote ‘clearly a wum’?

Yes, it’s obviously worth debating with you isn’t it.

You couldn’t even admit that your point about Interntional football was stupid.

So do tell me again why I should go into detail about why I rate Herrera as better?

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
Here's what I have to say on this:

I do agree that Henderson and Herrera are different players but if you ask me who is a better player and who does his job better, that's clearly Herrera.


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You still haven't put forward any reasons, just ridiculed the reasons that others have put forward. I know why, you can't. There is no feasible reason anybody can put forward that gives any weight to Herrera being better. Just think about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Like when someone said passing and because you don’t agree you wrote ‘clearly a wum’?

Yes, it’s obviously worth debating with you isn’t it.

You couldn’t even admit that your point about Interntional football was stupid.

So do tell me again why I should go into detail about why I rate Herrera as better?
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Obviously it's a WUM. The only other reason is he doesn't have a clue. Firstly you can see that by watching both players and if that isn't enough, the stats are there for all to see. Henderson has a better passing range and even then with these riskier passes due to distance and more forward passes has a higher pass completion percentage. So in what world can anybody say Herrera is a better passer? Either a WUMs world or an idiots one. I chose to be nice and go with a WUMs one.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 3 minutes ago
Also winston the majority of Herrera success under Ole has been v weak midfields. He struggled badly when pressed by PSG and Spurs and to me the best midfielders cam handle beong pressed.
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Hmm, I sort of agree but I actually think he's been a good player for us against Spurs - even under Jose.

But I'm not claiming he's some sort of world beater and agree we could do better.

Regarding the second post, all I'm saying is that whilst he didn't shine under Jose, those of us who see him live on a regular basis can begin to form a better judgement of him - same as Martial and Rashford.

I was always convinced that those players would shine with the right manager, and that must be because of what we see when we watch a player ourselves... you just get a feel for it, even if overall their performances are average.
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Aree with that

Well isn't that what a debate entails? Two people disagree, so they out forward their reasons why? Simply disagreeing isn't a debate, it makes it appear that you're just saying it, without reason.

Well, well, well, the dippschitts don't rate Herrera, and that'll do fine. We'll see what happens Saturday night. We rate him and if anyone has watched Herrera, they would rate him. It's the ones who "only hear about him" that have the big opinions.

comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
Well isn't that what a debate entails? Two people disagree, so they out forward their reasons why? Simply disagreeing isn't a debate, it makes it appear that you're just saying it, without reason.
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Your reply above proves my point.

You refuse to accept someone’s opinion about passing, so what’s the point in discussing anything else?

It’s pathetic, to be honest.

comment by Uncle Ray (U18999)
posted 49 seconds ago
Well, well, well, the dippschitts don't rate Herrera, and that'll do fine. We'll see what happens Saturday night. We rate him and if anyone has watched Herrera, they would rate him. It's the ones who "only hear about him" that have the big opinions.
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Nobody said they don't rate him. One of the top performers in his position for years being better than a player doesn't mean the player isn't rated. It simply means he isn't as good a player. De Gea is a better goalkeeper than Alisson, who is a top keeper himself.