If winning the league is harder why do teams do it more often?
To be honest any big club should have ambitions to win both. To truly call yourself the best I do think you need to win both in the same season though.
To be fair I do think Liverpool's first XI is as good as anyvody's in Europe. If they can win the PL this season there's then a case for saying they also have thr best squad as well.
Having said all that, going by some comments above, World Champions trumps European Champions as well and United have two of those...
To be fair the PL is a lot easier. Liverpool has won 17 matches in a row in the PL yet the first team they faced in the CL this season they got smashed. Even the 2nd team they faced smashed 3 past them at Anfield.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
Having said all that, going by some comments above, World Champions trumps European Champions as well and United have two of those...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If Liverpool arent Premiership Super European World Champions in 7 months time is life even worth living?
The first point must be winning ANY trophy is a rare and wondrous event for most clubs. Each european league now has clubs sitting on top which have more resources and bully the rest of the clubs under. Other teams getting a cup is becoming increasing difficult.
The second point is very very few clubs can "pick and choose" what competition to win
The third is many clubs don't even try to win things now once they get to their desired level. Survival is more important and thats just a sad fact.
If people want to create a list of trophies by importance thats fine. If one club or other want to win a specific trophy thats also fine.
If however the objective is to knock another club based on some zzzz trophy argument don't entertain it. It's just wummery.
Here are a few preceived club priorities:
Real madrid might win La liga but if they do poorly in CL they will sack a manager. (right now they are so far off all thats keeping zidane in job is CL)
Barca - winning la liga won't get messi the credit he thinks he needs. Comments show the CL last two years really hurt.
Bayern are all about german league. CL is a desire and they tried the guardiola route
PSG are assuming League is in the bag, its all about CL.
City want to pretend its not about CL cos they didn't progress. their actions over 5 years prove otherwise.
Juve... similar really want CL as league is a must.
If you drill down past these however Liverpool, dortmund, atlectico, napoli would all love a league title.
The champions league is the premiere trophy in world football, primarally due to money in the leagues.
The copa libradores is then the next equivalent trophy.
The asian version so far doesn't come close
Seria A, La liga and premier league are THE leagues globally to be in. Why, money of course. These are national leagues however.
National cups are almost non entities at this point. they are also rans in terms of success as the same clubs win them most of the time while they are winning leagues and if they don't they just shrug.
CL
Copa liberdores
Leagues in europe
Whatever national cup you want.
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 48 seconds ago
If winning the league is harder why do teams do it more often?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's probably to do with the cream rising to the top. Nobody though Wigan were the best team in England for winning the FA Cup in 2013.
Don't get me wrong. Winning the CL is great. As a one off moment you can't top it IMO. Winning the league does give you more satisfaction though of a job well done over the season IMO.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
So you could argue that the best team doesn’t always win the league,
.....
You really couldn't unless you were a simpleton.
In that case, Termy, I can see how you would.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Typical VC, taking one line out of a reply and ignoring the context it was written. So predictable......
Without a shadow of a doubt the Champions League/European Cup has always and will always be more prestigious than winning a league title however I think winning your league should hold a little more importance.
I'd rather be champions of my own country and win the CL than not.
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
Having said all that, going by some comments above, World Champions trumps European Champions as well and United have two of those...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If Liverpool arent Premiership Super European World Champions in 7 months time is life even worth living?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't give up on life Hoody. Even if you don't win anything are least you're getting bang for your buck in terms of entertainment.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 48 seconds ago
If winning the league is harder why do teams do it more often?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's probably to do with the cream rising to the top. Nobody though Wigan were the best team in England for winning the FA Cup in 2013.
Don't get me wrong. Winning the CL is great. As a one off moment you can't top it IMO. Winning the league does give you more satisfaction though of a job well done over the season IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hooded
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 48 seconds ago
If winning the league is harder why do teams do it more often?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's probably to do with the cream rising to the top. Nobody though Wigan were the best team in England for winning the FA Cup in 2013.
Don't get me wrong. Winning the CL is great. As a one off moment you can't top it IMO. Winning the league does give you more satisfaction though of a job well done over the season IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah and I get that but just look at the past 20 winners of the CL.
Context is irrelevant to that statement Termy.
Could bit of spin though.
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 48 seconds ago
If winning the league is harder why do teams do it more often?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's probably to do with the cream rising to the top. Nobody though Wigan were the best team in England for winning the FA Cup in 2013.
Don't get me wrong. Winning the CL is great. As a one off moment you can't top it IMO. Winning the league does give you more satisfaction though of a job well done over the season IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah and I get that but just look at the past 20 winners of the CL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking back at that time I can only think that Porto aren't one of the heavyweights. Even then though they'd already won one previously.
To answer the OP though I think the best trophy to win is the next one. It shows you're at least moving forward a bit.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Context is irrelevant to that statement Termy.
Could bit of spin though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Context is never relevant to you. So if a team wins the league and hardly picks up any points from those in the top six, but win enough games against the poorer teams to win the league, then you think without doubt they are the best team in the league that season?
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Context is irrelevant to that statement Termy.
Could bit of spin though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Context is never relevant to you. So if a team wins the league and hardly picks up any points from those in the top six, but win enough games against the poorer teams to win the league, then you think without doubt they are the best team in the league that season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yeah because you all play the same teams. In champs league you could get a favourable draw.
If a team won the Leauge Cup, FA Cup and Champions League and finished second due to one less on goal difference would the team that won the league still be the best team in the league?
comment by Giggs#11 (U19135)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Context is irrelevant to that statement Termy.
Could bit of spin though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Context is never relevant to you. So if a team wins the league and hardly picks up any points from those in the top six, but win enough games against the poorer teams to win the league, then you think without doubt they are the best team in the league that season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yeah because you all play the same teams. In champs league you could get a favourable draw.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So say Untied win the league this season without beating City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal or Spurs, but picked up enough points from bottom half sides, then can you honestly say they are the best team in the league? Maybe the most consistent, but if you don’t beat those around you then you can’t definitively say you’re the best.
I would say you are Term, because it that was the case then your rivals hadn't been able to beat all the 'lesser' teams, or all the top six either, otherwise they would be champs.
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Giggs#11 (U19135)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Context is irrelevant to that statement Termy.
Could bit of spin though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Context is never relevant to you. So if a team wins the league and hardly picks up any points from those in the top six, but win enough games against the poorer teams to win the league, then you think without doubt they are the best team in the league that season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yeah because you all play the same teams. In champs league you could get a favourable draw.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So say Untied win the league this season without beating City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal or Spurs, but picked up enough points from bottom half sides, then can you honestly say they are the best team in the league? Maybe the most consistent, but if you don’t beat those around you then you can’t definitively say you’re the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even then I would say yes because those other teams mentioned have played the same 19 teams and come up short. That’s why the best team always wins the league.
comment by ttliv - I have to concede Messi is the GOAT. The only drawback is he got his micro pฤnis enhancement on the NHS and I had to pay for mine! (U11882)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
To answer the OP though I think the best trophy to win is the next one. It shows you're at least moving forward a bit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Woah...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok ok. I'll settle for three points for now. Is that better?
I think most of the time the best team wins the league but I can think of a couple of instances where that wasn’t the case. We were better than Blackburn in 1995 but somehow lost it and imo we were better than City in 2012 and just one calamitous moment at the end of the Everton game cost us. And tbh I genuinely think Liverpool were better than City last season. They lost once, won the CL and finished just one point behind City.
It won’t ever happen but in other sports there are playoffs to decide the winner. Not saying it should happen but in the seasons I’ve stated I don’t think all those teams who won the league would necessarily have won the playoff.
Totally depends on the circumstances and situation of each club although the CL is the most highly regarded across the planet.
Real are the biggest club on the planet and the CL to them has become synonymous with their history so it will always be more important to them than a domestic title.
Usually when clubs dominate domestically the need to win the CL becomes even greater. Look at Juve, domestically the biggest club in Italy but not long ago many from outside of Italy would have considered Milan the biggest simply because of their superior European record. Now Juve are desperate to win the CL, not that they don't care about winning the league, but it isn't as important to them right now.
Bayern are also probably in a similar situation, where they dominate domestically so the need to prove themselves in the CL becomes even greater. Same with PSG.
There is a bit of that in the PL where City's 4 titles in the past 8 seasons has lead to a greater desire to win the CL. But of course, then there's Liverpool who were so dominant in England, both in terms of league titles and European cups. As they've won a couple of CL's since they last won a league title, the desire to win another league is that much greater.
Overall, across the main leagues in Europe I would say that clubs have a greater desire to win the CL, but that doesn't mean they will ever not want to win the league, especially when there is greater competition domestically.
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 4 minutes ago
I would say you are Term, because it that was the case then your rivals hadn't been able to beat all the 'lesser' teams, or all the top six either, otherwise they would be champs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we’re back to consistency. I’m beginning to think there’s just too many variables to state definitively how you measure the best team. Look at us last season, we lose the league by one point and lose one game all season, funnily enough to the eventual champions. The margins were minute. Yet in the CL we were considerably better than City, so there could be an argument that over both competitions we were better than City.
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The best trophy to win
Page 4 of 7
6 | 7
posted on 6/10/19
If winning the league is harder why do teams do it more often?
posted on 6/10/19
To be honest any big club should have ambitions to win both. To truly call yourself the best I do think you need to win both in the same season though.
To be fair I do think Liverpool's first XI is as good as anyvody's in Europe. If they can win the PL this season there's then a case for saying they also have thr best squad as well.
Having said all that, going by some comments above, World Champions trumps European Champions as well and United have two of those...
posted on 6/10/19
To be fair the PL is a lot easier. Liverpool has won 17 matches in a row in the PL yet the first team they faced in the CL this season they got smashed. Even the 2nd team they faced smashed 3 past them at Anfield.
posted on 6/10/19
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
Having said all that, going by some comments above, World Champions trumps European Champions as well and United have two of those...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If Liverpool arent Premiership Super European World Champions in 7 months time is life even worth living?
posted on 6/10/19
The first point must be winning ANY trophy is a rare and wondrous event for most clubs. Each european league now has clubs sitting on top which have more resources and bully the rest of the clubs under. Other teams getting a cup is becoming increasing difficult.
The second point is very very few clubs can "pick and choose" what competition to win
The third is many clubs don't even try to win things now once they get to their desired level. Survival is more important and thats just a sad fact.
If people want to create a list of trophies by importance thats fine. If one club or other want to win a specific trophy thats also fine.
If however the objective is to knock another club based on some zzzz trophy argument don't entertain it. It's just wummery.
Here are a few preceived club priorities:
Real madrid might win La liga but if they do poorly in CL they will sack a manager. (right now they are so far off all thats keeping zidane in job is CL)
Barca - winning la liga won't get messi the credit he thinks he needs. Comments show the CL last two years really hurt.
Bayern are all about german league. CL is a desire and they tried the guardiola route
PSG are assuming League is in the bag, its all about CL.
City want to pretend its not about CL cos they didn't progress. their actions over 5 years prove otherwise.
Juve... similar really want CL as league is a must.
If you drill down past these however Liverpool, dortmund, atlectico, napoli would all love a league title.
The champions league is the premiere trophy in world football, primarally due to money in the leagues.
The copa libradores is then the next equivalent trophy.
The asian version so far doesn't come close
Seria A, La liga and premier league are THE leagues globally to be in. Why, money of course. These are national leagues however.
National cups are almost non entities at this point. they are also rans in terms of success as the same clubs win them most of the time while they are winning leagues and if they don't they just shrug.
CL
Copa liberdores
Leagues in europe
Whatever national cup you want.
posted on 6/10/19
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 48 seconds ago
If winning the league is harder why do teams do it more often?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's probably to do with the cream rising to the top. Nobody though Wigan were the best team in England for winning the FA Cup in 2013.
Don't get me wrong. Winning the CL is great. As a one off moment you can't top it IMO. Winning the league does give you more satisfaction though of a job well done over the season IMO.
posted on 6/10/19
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
So you could argue that the best team doesn’t always win the league,
.....
You really couldn't unless you were a simpleton.
In that case, Termy, I can see how you would.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Typical VC, taking one line out of a reply and ignoring the context it was written. So predictable......
posted on 6/10/19
Without a shadow of a doubt the Champions League/European Cup has always and will always be more prestigious than winning a league title however I think winning your league should hold a little more importance.
I'd rather be champions of my own country and win the CL than not.
posted on 6/10/19
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
Having said all that, going by some comments above, World Champions trumps European Champions as well and United have two of those...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If Liverpool arent Premiership Super European World Champions in 7 months time is life even worth living?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't give up on life Hoody. Even if you don't win anything are least you're getting bang for your buck in terms of entertainment.
posted on 6/10/19
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 48 seconds ago
If winning the league is harder why do teams do it more often?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's probably to do with the cream rising to the top. Nobody though Wigan were the best team in England for winning the FA Cup in 2013.
Don't get me wrong. Winning the CL is great. As a one off moment you can't top it IMO. Winning the league does give you more satisfaction though of a job well done over the season IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hooded
posted on 6/10/19
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 48 seconds ago
If winning the league is harder why do teams do it more often?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's probably to do with the cream rising to the top. Nobody though Wigan were the best team in England for winning the FA Cup in 2013.
Don't get me wrong. Winning the CL is great. As a one off moment you can't top it IMO. Winning the league does give you more satisfaction though of a job well done over the season IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah and I get that but just look at the past 20 winners of the CL.
posted on 6/10/19
Context is irrelevant to that statement Termy.
Could bit of spin though.
posted on 6/10/19
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 48 seconds ago
If winning the league is harder why do teams do it more often?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's probably to do with the cream rising to the top. Nobody though Wigan were the best team in England for winning the FA Cup in 2013.
Don't get me wrong. Winning the CL is great. As a one off moment you can't top it IMO. Winning the league does give you more satisfaction though of a job well done over the season IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah and I get that but just look at the past 20 winners of the CL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking back at that time I can only think that Porto aren't one of the heavyweights. Even then though they'd already won one previously.
posted on 6/10/19
To answer the OP though I think the best trophy to win is the next one. It shows you're at least moving forward a bit.
posted on 6/10/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 6/10/19
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Context is irrelevant to that statement Termy.
Could bit of spin though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Context is never relevant to you. So if a team wins the league and hardly picks up any points from those in the top six, but win enough games against the poorer teams to win the league, then you think without doubt they are the best team in the league that season?
posted on 6/10/19
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Context is irrelevant to that statement Termy.
Could bit of spin though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Context is never relevant to you. So if a team wins the league and hardly picks up any points from those in the top six, but win enough games against the poorer teams to win the league, then you think without doubt they are the best team in the league that season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yeah because you all play the same teams. In champs league you could get a favourable draw.
posted on 6/10/19
If a team won the Leauge Cup, FA Cup and Champions League and finished second due to one less on goal difference would the team that won the league still be the best team in the league?
posted on 6/10/19
comment by Giggs#11 (U19135)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Context is irrelevant to that statement Termy.
Could bit of spin though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Context is never relevant to you. So if a team wins the league and hardly picks up any points from those in the top six, but win enough games against the poorer teams to win the league, then you think without doubt they are the best team in the league that season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yeah because you all play the same teams. In champs league you could get a favourable draw.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So say Untied win the league this season without beating City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal or Spurs, but picked up enough points from bottom half sides, then can you honestly say they are the best team in the league? Maybe the most consistent, but if you don’t beat those around you then you can’t definitively say you’re the best.
posted on 6/10/19
I would say you are Term, because it that was the case then your rivals hadn't been able to beat all the 'lesser' teams, or all the top six either, otherwise they would be champs.
posted on 6/10/19
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Giggs#11 (U19135)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Context is irrelevant to that statement Termy.
Could bit of spin though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Context is never relevant to you. So if a team wins the league and hardly picks up any points from those in the top six, but win enough games against the poorer teams to win the league, then you think without doubt they are the best team in the league that season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yeah because you all play the same teams. In champs league you could get a favourable draw.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So say Untied win the league this season without beating City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal or Spurs, but picked up enough points from bottom half sides, then can you honestly say they are the best team in the league? Maybe the most consistent, but if you don’t beat those around you then you can’t definitively say you’re the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even then I would say yes because those other teams mentioned have played the same 19 teams and come up short. That’s why the best team always wins the league.
posted on 6/10/19
comment by ttliv - I have to concede Messi is the GOAT. The only drawback is he got his micro pฤnis enhancement on the NHS and I had to pay for mine! (U11882)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
To answer the OP though I think the best trophy to win is the next one. It shows you're at least moving forward a bit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Woah...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok ok. I'll settle for three points for now. Is that better?
posted on 6/10/19
I think most of the time the best team wins the league but I can think of a couple of instances where that wasn’t the case. We were better than Blackburn in 1995 but somehow lost it and imo we were better than City in 2012 and just one calamitous moment at the end of the Everton game cost us. And tbh I genuinely think Liverpool were better than City last season. They lost once, won the CL and finished just one point behind City.
It won’t ever happen but in other sports there are playoffs to decide the winner. Not saying it should happen but in the seasons I’ve stated I don’t think all those teams who won the league would necessarily have won the playoff.
posted on 6/10/19
Totally depends on the circumstances and situation of each club although the CL is the most highly regarded across the planet.
Real are the biggest club on the planet and the CL to them has become synonymous with their history so it will always be more important to them than a domestic title.
Usually when clubs dominate domestically the need to win the CL becomes even greater. Look at Juve, domestically the biggest club in Italy but not long ago many from outside of Italy would have considered Milan the biggest simply because of their superior European record. Now Juve are desperate to win the CL, not that they don't care about winning the league, but it isn't as important to them right now.
Bayern are also probably in a similar situation, where they dominate domestically so the need to prove themselves in the CL becomes even greater. Same with PSG.
There is a bit of that in the PL where City's 4 titles in the past 8 seasons has lead to a greater desire to win the CL. But of course, then there's Liverpool who were so dominant in England, both in terms of league titles and European cups. As they've won a couple of CL's since they last won a league title, the desire to win another league is that much greater.
Overall, across the main leagues in Europe I would say that clubs have a greater desire to win the CL, but that doesn't mean they will ever not want to win the league, especially when there is greater competition domestically.
posted on 6/10/19
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 4 minutes ago
I would say you are Term, because it that was the case then your rivals hadn't been able to beat all the 'lesser' teams, or all the top six either, otherwise they would be champs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we’re back to consistency. I’m beginning to think there’s just too many variables to state definitively how you measure the best team. Look at us last season, we lose the league by one point and lose one game all season, funnily enough to the eventual champions. The margins were minute. Yet in the CL we were considerably better than City, so there could be an argument that over both competitions we were better than City.
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