comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Huddlestone's Afro - Rock you like a Hurr... (U15375)
posted 12 minutes ago
This is pretty easy to understand. The word is offensive to Jewish people but Spurs fans have an affinity for it as they believe they 'reclaimed' it BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT LESS OFFENSIVE TO MOST JEWISH PEOPLE.
If you sing the chants and use the word then that's your own right under free speech but that doesn't mean that what you are saying isn't racially offensive - regardless of your intent or context.
And of those seeking legitimacy in a historical dictionary entry, here is the full OED definition for the word (by earliest usage first) - the second usage doesn't lessen the impact of the first:
1. A Jewish person. In non-Jewish usage offensive and chiefly derogatory.
2. In extended use: a supporter of or player for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club (traditionally associated with the Jewish community in north and east London). Originally and frequently derogatory and offensive, though also often as a self-designation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Close thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only that it isn't offensive to all Jewish people.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Winston, I can only go on what Scotland Yard say, I have no great knowledge of law or policing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about the Met Police statement that confirmed it wouldn't be an arrestable offence at White Hart Lane (in this context).
Can't you take that into account?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven't seen the statement so I couldn't take it into account, no.
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Huddlestone's Afro - Rock you like a Hurr... (U15375)
posted 12 minutes ago
This is pretty easy to understand. The word is offensive to Jewish people but Spurs fans have an affinity for it as they believe they 'reclaimed' it BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT LESS OFFENSIVE TO MOST JEWISH PEOPLE.
If you sing the chants and use the word then that's your own right under free speech but that doesn't mean that what you are saying isn't racially offensive - regardless of your intent or context.
And of those seeking legitimacy in a historical dictionary entry, here is the full OED definition for the word (by earliest usage first) - the second usage doesn't lessen the impact of the first:
1. A Jewish person. In non-Jewish usage offensive and chiefly derogatory.
2. In extended use: a supporter of or player for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club (traditionally associated with the Jewish community in north and east London). Originally and frequently derogatory and offensive, though also often as a self-designation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Close thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only that it isn't offensive to all Jewish people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that's OK then.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 49 seconds ago
The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
No, it's whataboutery.
Two entirely different situations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not particularly. If a white person was part of a group with a lot of black people and they started referring to the group as 'N Army' in public; it would be heavily frowned upon. In fact, if the black community took offence, most people would be quick to condemn it.
Bringing up equivalent examples when discussing a subject is a perfectly legitimate way to justify a point. You only call it whataboutery so you can avoid discussing it,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is whataboutery.
They're two entirely different situations - rather than try to agree a blueprint that we can apply to any situation regarding a potentially offensive word, we should discuss each situation on its merits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its not whataboutery. People should do both. You can't ignore a comparison just because it doesn't suit your argument.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Huddlestone's Afro - Rock you like a Hurr... (U15375)
posted 12 minutes ago
This is pretty easy to understand. The word is offensive to Jewish people but Spurs fans have an affinity for it as they believe they 'reclaimed' it BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT LESS OFFENSIVE TO MOST JEWISH PEOPLE.
If you sing the chants and use the word then that's your own right under free speech but that doesn't mean that what you are saying isn't racially offensive - regardless of your intent or context.
And of those seeking legitimacy in a historical dictionary entry, here is the full OED definition for the word (by earliest usage first) - the second usage doesn't lessen the impact of the first:
1. A Jewish person. In non-Jewish usage offensive and chiefly derogatory.
2. In extended use: a supporter of or player for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club (traditionally associated with the Jewish community in north and east London). Originally and frequently derogatory and offensive, though also often as a self-designation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Close thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only that it isn't offensive to all Jewish people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that's OK then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOOR, if you eat meat then you offend a fair few people around the world.
If you swear in earshot of others, chances are you have offended someone.
We could go all day with examples of things that offend people. That alone is not enough to state that people are doing something wrong.
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 49 seconds ago
The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
No, it's whataboutery.
Two entirely different situations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not particularly. If a white person was part of a group with a lot of black people and they started referring to the group as 'N Army' in public; it would be heavily frowned upon. In fact, if the black community took offence, most people would be quick to condemn it.
Bringing up equivalent examples when discussing a subject is a perfectly legitimate way to justify a point. You only call it whataboutery so you can avoid discussing it,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is whataboutery.
They're two entirely different situations - rather than try to agree a blueprint that we can apply to any situation regarding a potentially offensive word, we should discuss each situation on its merits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its not whataboutery. People should do both. You can't ignore a comparison just because it doesn't suit your argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is whataboutery.
It's trying to refute an argument with an entirely different and unrelated point.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Huddlestone's Afro - Rock you like a Hurr... (U15375)
posted 12 minutes ago
This is pretty easy to understand. The word is offensive to Jewish people but Spurs fans have an affinity for it as they believe they 'reclaimed' it BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT LESS OFFENSIVE TO MOST JEWISH PEOPLE.
If you sing the chants and use the word then that's your own right under free speech but that doesn't mean that what you are saying isn't racially offensive - regardless of your intent or context.
And of those seeking legitimacy in a historical dictionary entry, here is the full OED definition for the word (by earliest usage first) - the second usage doesn't lessen the impact of the first:
1. A Jewish person. In non-Jewish usage offensive and chiefly derogatory.
2. In extended use: a supporter of or player for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club (traditionally associated with the Jewish community in north and east London). Originally and frequently derogatory and offensive, though also often as a self-designation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Close thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only that it isn't offensive to all Jewish people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that's OK then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOOR, if you eat meat then you offend a fair few people around the world.
If you swear in earshot of others, chances are you have offended someone.
We could go all day with examples of things that offend people. That alone is not enough to state that people are doing something wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This comment is embarrassing.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Huddlestone's Afro - Rock you like a Hurr... (U15375)
posted 12 minutes ago
This is pretty easy to understand. The word is offensive to Jewish people but Spurs fans have an affinity for it as they believe they 'reclaimed' it BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT LESS OFFENSIVE TO MOST JEWISH PEOPLE.
If you sing the chants and use the word then that's your own right under free speech but that doesn't mean that what you are saying isn't racially offensive - regardless of your intent or context.
And of those seeking legitimacy in a historical dictionary entry, here is the full OED definition for the word (by earliest usage first) - the second usage doesn't lessen the impact of the first:
1. A Jewish person. In non-Jewish usage offensive and chiefly derogatory.
2. In extended use: a supporter of or player for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club (traditionally associated with the Jewish community in north and east London). Originally and frequently derogatory and offensive, though also often as a self-designation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Close thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only that it isn't offensive to all Jewish people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that's OK then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOOR, if you eat meat then you offend a fair few people around the world.
If you swear in earshot of others, chances are you have offended someone.
We could go all day with examples of things that offend people. That alone is not enough to state that people are doing something wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This comment is embarrassing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet you can't argue it.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Winston, I can only go on what Scotland Yard say, I have no great knowledge of law or policing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about the Met Police statement that confirmed it wouldn't be an arrestable offence at White Hart Lane (in this context).
Can't you take that into account?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven't seen the statement so I couldn't take it into account, no.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well now I've alerted you to it, how about you educate yourself and stop making ignorant comments?
TOOR,
Are Jewish people allowed to sing Yiid Army at WHL?
1/3 odds that TOOR leaves the thread and cites me as the reason, casually ignoring the flaws and errors in what he has said.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not. As previously stated, there is no issue with Jewish people reclaiming a word, if they decide it is not offensive to do so. Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish.
"Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish."
TOOR, it's a fact that some Jewish people are Spurs fans and use this word in the stadium.
TOOR:
"I would stop telling Spurs fans that it's OK to use a racial slur that Jewish people find offensive and start educating."
I'll ask again - are you proposing education for a Jewish person using this word that it is 'a racial slur that Jewish people find offensive'?
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
"Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish."
TOOR, it's a fact that some Jewish people are Spurs fans and use this word in the stadium.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it wasn't.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 49 seconds ago
The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
No, it's whataboutery.
Two entirely different situations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not particularly. If a white person was part of a group with a lot of black people and they started referring to the group as 'N Army' in public; it would be heavily frowned upon. In fact, if the black community took offence, most people would be quick to condemn it.
Bringing up equivalent examples when discussing a subject is a perfectly legitimate way to justify a point. You only call it whataboutery so you can avoid discussing it,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is whataboutery.
They're two entirely different situations - rather than try to agree a blueprint that we can apply to any situation regarding a potentially offensive word, we should discuss each situation on its merits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its not whataboutery. People should do both. You can't ignore a comparison just because it doesn't suit your argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is whataboutery.
It's trying to refute an argument with an entirely different and unrelated point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I'm not. The situation used is drawing a comparison to another situation which is similar and how behaviour would be different.
That is not whataboutery. It is showing a double standard. It is up to you in the discussion to refute that and explain why you think this situation is different to the standard set in the other one. Saying 'whataboutery' over and over again is just a way to shut down that discussion as you feel uncomfortable going down that path.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not. As previously stated, there is no issue with Jewish people reclaiming a word, if they decide it is not offensive to do so. Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So let's say that 5% of the attendance at WHL are Jewish.
Of the 60k fans there, are the 3,000 Jewish fans allowed to continue to sing Yiid Army?
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
"Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish."
TOOR, it's a fact that some Jewish people are Spurs fans and use this word in the stadium.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it wasn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore it follows that you are saying those people need educating.
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not. As previously stated, there is no issue with Jewish people reclaiming a word, if they decide it is not offensive to do so. Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So let's say that 5% of the attendance at WHL are Jewish.
Of the 60k fans there, are the 3,000 Jewish fans allowed to continue to sing Yiid Army?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not for me to decide. I'm only giving my opinion on whether Spurs fans should used a word which Jewish people consider derogatory. I don't think they should.
Tamwolf (U17286)
No, the person who raised it was.
And no it doesn't show a double standard. They're two entirely different situations.
It's perfectly plausible to think one is acceptable and the other is not. To say otherwise is ridiculous.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
"Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish."
TOOR, it's a fact that some Jewish people are Spurs fans and use this word in the stadium.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it wasn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore it follows that you are saying those people need educating.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it doesn't.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
"Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish."
TOOR, it's a fact that some Jewish people are Spurs fans and use this word in the stadium.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it wasn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore it follows that you are saying those people need educating.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it doesn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it does.
You said Spurs fans who use the word need educating.
They are Spurs fans using the word.
Sign in if you want to comment
Y!D - Now in the Oxford Dictionary
Page 8 of 13
9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13
posted on 13/2/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Huddlestone's Afro - Rock you like a Hurr... (U15375)
posted 12 minutes ago
This is pretty easy to understand. The word is offensive to Jewish people but Spurs fans have an affinity for it as they believe they 'reclaimed' it BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT LESS OFFENSIVE TO MOST JEWISH PEOPLE.
If you sing the chants and use the word then that's your own right under free speech but that doesn't mean that what you are saying isn't racially offensive - regardless of your intent or context.
And of those seeking legitimacy in a historical dictionary entry, here is the full OED definition for the word (by earliest usage first) - the second usage doesn't lessen the impact of the first:
1. A Jewish person. In non-Jewish usage offensive and chiefly derogatory.
2. In extended use: a supporter of or player for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club (traditionally associated with the Jewish community in north and east London). Originally and frequently derogatory and offensive, though also often as a self-designation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Close thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only that it isn't offensive to all Jewish people.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Winston, I can only go on what Scotland Yard say, I have no great knowledge of law or policing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about the Met Police statement that confirmed it wouldn't be an arrestable offence at White Hart Lane (in this context).
Can't you take that into account?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven't seen the statement so I couldn't take it into account, no.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Huddlestone's Afro - Rock you like a Hurr... (U15375)
posted 12 minutes ago
This is pretty easy to understand. The word is offensive to Jewish people but Spurs fans have an affinity for it as they believe they 'reclaimed' it BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT LESS OFFENSIVE TO MOST JEWISH PEOPLE.
If you sing the chants and use the word then that's your own right under free speech but that doesn't mean that what you are saying isn't racially offensive - regardless of your intent or context.
And of those seeking legitimacy in a historical dictionary entry, here is the full OED definition for the word (by earliest usage first) - the second usage doesn't lessen the impact of the first:
1. A Jewish person. In non-Jewish usage offensive and chiefly derogatory.
2. In extended use: a supporter of or player for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club (traditionally associated with the Jewish community in north and east London). Originally and frequently derogatory and offensive, though also often as a self-designation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Close thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only that it isn't offensive to all Jewish people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that's OK then.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 49 seconds ago
The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
No, it's whataboutery.
Two entirely different situations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not particularly. If a white person was part of a group with a lot of black people and they started referring to the group as 'N Army' in public; it would be heavily frowned upon. In fact, if the black community took offence, most people would be quick to condemn it.
Bringing up equivalent examples when discussing a subject is a perfectly legitimate way to justify a point. You only call it whataboutery so you can avoid discussing it,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is whataboutery.
They're two entirely different situations - rather than try to agree a blueprint that we can apply to any situation regarding a potentially offensive word, we should discuss each situation on its merits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its not whataboutery. People should do both. You can't ignore a comparison just because it doesn't suit your argument.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Huddlestone's Afro - Rock you like a Hurr... (U15375)
posted 12 minutes ago
This is pretty easy to understand. The word is offensive to Jewish people but Spurs fans have an affinity for it as they believe they 'reclaimed' it BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT LESS OFFENSIVE TO MOST JEWISH PEOPLE.
If you sing the chants and use the word then that's your own right under free speech but that doesn't mean that what you are saying isn't racially offensive - regardless of your intent or context.
And of those seeking legitimacy in a historical dictionary entry, here is the full OED definition for the word (by earliest usage first) - the second usage doesn't lessen the impact of the first:
1. A Jewish person. In non-Jewish usage offensive and chiefly derogatory.
2. In extended use: a supporter of or player for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club (traditionally associated with the Jewish community in north and east London). Originally and frequently derogatory and offensive, though also often as a self-designation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Close thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only that it isn't offensive to all Jewish people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that's OK then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOOR, if you eat meat then you offend a fair few people around the world.
If you swear in earshot of others, chances are you have offended someone.
We could go all day with examples of things that offend people. That alone is not enough to state that people are doing something wrong.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 49 seconds ago
The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
No, it's whataboutery.
Two entirely different situations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not particularly. If a white person was part of a group with a lot of black people and they started referring to the group as 'N Army' in public; it would be heavily frowned upon. In fact, if the black community took offence, most people would be quick to condemn it.
Bringing up equivalent examples when discussing a subject is a perfectly legitimate way to justify a point. You only call it whataboutery so you can avoid discussing it,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is whataboutery.
They're two entirely different situations - rather than try to agree a blueprint that we can apply to any situation regarding a potentially offensive word, we should discuss each situation on its merits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its not whataboutery. People should do both. You can't ignore a comparison just because it doesn't suit your argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is whataboutery.
It's trying to refute an argument with an entirely different and unrelated point.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Huddlestone's Afro - Rock you like a Hurr... (U15375)
posted 12 minutes ago
This is pretty easy to understand. The word is offensive to Jewish people but Spurs fans have an affinity for it as they believe they 'reclaimed' it BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT LESS OFFENSIVE TO MOST JEWISH PEOPLE.
If you sing the chants and use the word then that's your own right under free speech but that doesn't mean that what you are saying isn't racially offensive - regardless of your intent or context.
And of those seeking legitimacy in a historical dictionary entry, here is the full OED definition for the word (by earliest usage first) - the second usage doesn't lessen the impact of the first:
1. A Jewish person. In non-Jewish usage offensive and chiefly derogatory.
2. In extended use: a supporter of or player for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club (traditionally associated with the Jewish community in north and east London). Originally and frequently derogatory and offensive, though also often as a self-designation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Close thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only that it isn't offensive to all Jewish people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that's OK then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOOR, if you eat meat then you offend a fair few people around the world.
If you swear in earshot of others, chances are you have offended someone.
We could go all day with examples of things that offend people. That alone is not enough to state that people are doing something wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This comment is embarrassing.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Huddlestone's Afro - Rock you like a Hurr... (U15375)
posted 12 minutes ago
This is pretty easy to understand. The word is offensive to Jewish people but Spurs fans have an affinity for it as they believe they 'reclaimed' it BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT LESS OFFENSIVE TO MOST JEWISH PEOPLE.
If you sing the chants and use the word then that's your own right under free speech but that doesn't mean that what you are saying isn't racially offensive - regardless of your intent or context.
And of those seeking legitimacy in a historical dictionary entry, here is the full OED definition for the word (by earliest usage first) - the second usage doesn't lessen the impact of the first:
1. A Jewish person. In non-Jewish usage offensive and chiefly derogatory.
2. In extended use: a supporter of or player for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club (traditionally associated with the Jewish community in north and east London). Originally and frequently derogatory and offensive, though also often as a self-designation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Close thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only that it isn't offensive to all Jewish people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that's OK then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOOR, if you eat meat then you offend a fair few people around the world.
If you swear in earshot of others, chances are you have offended someone.
We could go all day with examples of things that offend people. That alone is not enough to state that people are doing something wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This comment is embarrassing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet you can't argue it.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Winston, I can only go on what Scotland Yard say, I have no great knowledge of law or policing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about the Met Police statement that confirmed it wouldn't be an arrestable offence at White Hart Lane (in this context).
Can't you take that into account?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven't seen the statement so I couldn't take it into account, no.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well now I've alerted you to it, how about you educate yourself and stop making ignorant comments?
posted on 13/2/20
TOOR,
Are Jewish people allowed to sing Yiid Army at WHL?
posted on 13/2/20
1/3 odds that TOOR leaves the thread and cites me as the reason, casually ignoring the flaws and errors in what he has said.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not. As previously stated, there is no issue with Jewish people reclaiming a word, if they decide it is not offensive to do so. Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish.
posted on 13/2/20
"Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish."
TOOR, it's a fact that some Jewish people are Spurs fans and use this word in the stadium.
posted on 13/2/20
TOOR:
"I would stop telling Spurs fans that it's OK to use a racial slur that Jewish people find offensive and start educating."
I'll ask again - are you proposing education for a Jewish person using this word that it is 'a racial slur that Jewish people find offensive'?
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
"Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish."
TOOR, it's a fact that some Jewish people are Spurs fans and use this word in the stadium.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it wasn't.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 49 seconds ago
The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
No, it's whataboutery.
Two entirely different situations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not particularly. If a white person was part of a group with a lot of black people and they started referring to the group as 'N Army' in public; it would be heavily frowned upon. In fact, if the black community took offence, most people would be quick to condemn it.
Bringing up equivalent examples when discussing a subject is a perfectly legitimate way to justify a point. You only call it whataboutery so you can avoid discussing it,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is whataboutery.
They're two entirely different situations - rather than try to agree a blueprint that we can apply to any situation regarding a potentially offensive word, we should discuss each situation on its merits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its not whataboutery. People should do both. You can't ignore a comparison just because it doesn't suit your argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is whataboutery.
It's trying to refute an argument with an entirely different and unrelated point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I'm not. The situation used is drawing a comparison to another situation which is similar and how behaviour would be different.
That is not whataboutery. It is showing a double standard. It is up to you in the discussion to refute that and explain why you think this situation is different to the standard set in the other one. Saying 'whataboutery' over and over again is just a way to shut down that discussion as you feel uncomfortable going down that path.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not. As previously stated, there is no issue with Jewish people reclaiming a word, if they decide it is not offensive to do so. Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So let's say that 5% of the attendance at WHL are Jewish.
Of the 60k fans there, are the 3,000 Jewish fans allowed to continue to sing Yiid Army?
posted on 13/2/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
"Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish."
TOOR, it's a fact that some Jewish people are Spurs fans and use this word in the stadium.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it wasn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore it follows that you are saying those people need educating.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not. As previously stated, there is no issue with Jewish people reclaiming a word, if they decide it is not offensive to do so. Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So let's say that 5% of the attendance at WHL are Jewish.
Of the 60k fans there, are the 3,000 Jewish fans allowed to continue to sing Yiid Army?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not for me to decide. I'm only giving my opinion on whether Spurs fans should used a word which Jewish people consider derogatory. I don't think they should.
posted on 13/2/20
Tamwolf (U17286)
No, the person who raised it was.
And no it doesn't show a double standard. They're two entirely different situations.
It's perfectly plausible to think one is acceptable and the other is not. To say otherwise is ridiculous.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
"Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish."
TOOR, it's a fact that some Jewish people are Spurs fans and use this word in the stadium.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it wasn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore it follows that you are saying those people need educating.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it doesn't.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
"Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish."
TOOR, it's a fact that some Jewish people are Spurs fans and use this word in the stadium.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it wasn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore it follows that you are saying those people need educating.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it doesn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it does.
You said Spurs fans who use the word need educating.
They are Spurs fans using the word.
Page 8 of 13
9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13