Oh and TOOR, we'll add the 'it's an arrestable offence' comment to the list of things you're wrong about and can't admit it.
You wonder why debates get into semantics and repetitiveness, but that's why.
All you had to do was check your facts and acknowledge your error.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
"Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish."
TOOR, it's a fact that some Jewish people are Spurs fans and use this word in the stadium.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it wasn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore it follows that you are saying those people need educating.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it doesn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it does.
You said Spurs fans who use the word need educating.
They are Spurs fans using the word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes Spurs fans, not Jews. As I said before Spurs fans are not Jews. Yes there are a very small percentage which are but the two are not synonymous and that's the whole issue the Jewish community have with them using the derogatory term.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 10 minutes ago
TOOR, if you eat meat then you offend a fair few people around the world.
If you swear in earshot of others, chances are you have offended someone.
We could go all day with examples of things that offend people. That alone is not enough to state that people are doing something wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite laughable that you would post something like this, whilst simultaneously accusing everyone who posts something you don't like of 'whataboutery'.
"whilst simultaneously accusing everyone who posts something you don't like of 'whataboutery'."
I accused one person of it.
And mine isn't whataboutery. I'm giving examples of how things you do offend people but it doesn't mean that the thing being done is necessarily wrong, that's all.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
"Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish."
TOOR, it's a fact that some Jewish people are Spurs fans and use this word in the stadium.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it wasn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore it follows that you are saying those people need educating.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it doesn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it does.
You said Spurs fans who use the word need educating.
They are Spurs fans using the word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes Spurs fans, not Jews. As I said before Spurs fans are not Jews. Yes there are a very small percentage which are but the two are not synonymous and that's the whole issue the Jewish community have with them using the derogatory term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But there are Jewish Spurs fans who use this word.
So perhaps you can clarify; do you think those people need educating or not?
This is al the dictionary’s fault
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not. As previously stated, there is no issue with Jewish people reclaiming a word, if they decide it is not offensive to do so. Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So let's say that 5% of the attendance at WHL are Jewish.
Of the 60k fans there, are the 3,000 Jewish fans allowed to continue to sing Yiid Army?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not for me to decide. I'm only giving my opinion on whether Spurs fans should used a word which Jewish people consider derogatory. I don't think they should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, you've given your opinion... And then gone on to say how we all need to educate ourselves.
Then continued for 2 hours.
The person with the major issue about this is the Liverpool fan who lives like 250 miles away from WHL
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
Oh and TOOR, we'll add the 'it's an arrestable offence' comment to the list of things you're wrong about and can't admit it.
You wonder why debates get into semantics and repetitiveness, but that's why.
All you had to do was check your facts and acknowledge your error.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How can I admit something I don't know? I told you what Scotland Yard said. I haven't seen anything to the contrary. If you want to say Scotland Yard are wrong, then show me the evidence. I can't not believe something from Scotland Yard because you said so, can I?
I'd absolutely love a Black Mirror type scenario where we could plug in the situation to be reversed and see what TOOR had to say about it, if it were Liverpool fans.
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not. As previously stated, there is no issue with Jewish people reclaiming a word, if they decide it is not offensive to do so. Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So let's say that 5% of the attendance at WHL are Jewish.
Of the 60k fans there, are the 3,000 Jewish fans allowed to continue to sing Yiid Army?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not for me to decide. I'm only giving my opinion on whether Spurs fans should used a word which Jewish people consider derogatory. I don't think they should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, you've given your opinion... And then gone on to say how we all need to educate ourselves.
Then continued for 2 hours.
The person with the major issue about this is the Liverpool fan who lives like 250 miles away from WHL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and you keep saying "Jewish people" implying that all Jewish people find the word derogatory when that simply is not the case.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
Oh and TOOR, we'll add the 'it's an arrestable offence' comment to the list of things you're wrong about and can't admit it.
You wonder why debates get into semantics and repetitiveness, but that's why.
All you had to do was check your facts and acknowledge your error.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How can I admit something I don't know? I told you what Scotland Yard said. I haven't seen anything to the contrary. If you want to say Scotland Yard are wrong, then show me the evidence. I can't not believe something from Scotland Yard because you said so, can I?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I told you about the statement.
Why not check it for yourself?
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
Tamwolf (U17286)
No, the person who raised it was.
And no it doesn't show a double standard. They're two entirely different situations.
It's perfectly plausible to think one is acceptable and the other is not. To say otherwise is ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They weren't that different. Asking if the Spurs fanbase had a large black following and started referring to themselves as 'N Army' is very comparable. Both are derogatory terms used against oppressed people / races.
It is perfectly reasonable to ask someone why they think the two situations are different. It is ridiculous to suggest that it shouldn't be discussed and repeatedly refuse to do so.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
"whilst simultaneously accusing everyone who posts something you don't like of 'whataboutery'."
I accused one person of it.
And mine isn't whataboutery. I'm giving examples of how things you do offend people but it doesn't mean that the thing being done is necessarily wrong, that's all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Using your words:
'They're two entirely different situations.
It's perfectly plausible to think one is acceptable and the other is not. To say otherwise is ridiculous.'
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
Tamwolf (U17286)
No, the person who raised it was.
And no it doesn't show a double standard. They're two entirely different situations.
It's perfectly plausible to think one is acceptable and the other is not. To say otherwise is ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They weren't that different. Asking if the Spurs fanbase had a large black following and started referring to themselves as 'N Army' is very comparable. Both are derogatory terms used against oppressed people / races.
It is perfectly reasonable to ask someone why they think the two situations are different. It is ridiculous to suggest that it shouldn't be discussed and repeatedly refuse to do so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're massively different.
And no, it's not ridiculous to dismiss whataboutery.
If you want to debate the use of this word in the stadium then great, go ahead, but cut the crap that by thinking it's okay, it also means you think it's okay for people to walk into a bar and use the n word to their mates.
It's a bullsheite opinion that doesn't deserve discussing.
Tamwolf (U17286)
Yes, but I'm not using my scenario to dismiss or refute his.
I'm simply using them to say that it is possible for something to be regarded as offensive (to some) yet entirely acceptable.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
Tamwolf (U17286)
No, the person who raised it was.
And no it doesn't show a double standard. They're two entirely different situations.
It's perfectly plausible to think one is acceptable and the other is not. To say otherwise is ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They weren't that different. Asking if the Spurs fanbase had a large black following and started referring to themselves as 'N Army' is very comparable. Both are derogatory terms used against oppressed people / races.
It is perfectly reasonable to ask someone why they think the two situations are different. It is ridiculous to suggest that it shouldn't be discussed and repeatedly refuse to do so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're massively different.
And no, it's not ridiculous to dismiss whataboutery.
If you want to debate the use of this word in the stadium then great, go ahead, but cut the crap that by thinking it's okay, it also means you think it's okay for people to walk into a bar and use the n word to their mates.
It's a bullsheite opinion that doesn't deserve discussing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have never once said it would make it ok to walk into a bar a shout the 'N word' at your mates. I think it is you that needs to cut the crap.
The comparison is in the post above, read it again (it is nothing like you just described) and tell me why one would be ok and the other wouldn't. Should be easy for you. You have already told me its ridiculous that a comparison can be drawn.
Does anyone find the term paddy used to describe the Irish as offensive?
I don’t but know some who do.
Tamwolf (U17286)
Look at scenario that was presented to me, which you joined in the argument for - you're the only one speaking crap.
And yes, your example is also ridiculous.
The connection between Jewish people and Spurs goes back many years, as does the use of the word. To compare that with a scenario, the modern day, where a group of people suddenly start calling themselves N army is moronic.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
Tamwolf (U17286)
Yes, but I'm not using my scenario to dismiss or refute his.
I'm simply using them to say that it is possible for something to be regarded as offensive (to some) yet entirely acceptable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are using it to refute his argument though. It wasn't to stress any point, it was to refute the fact that the word is offensive in any context by applying a completely different situation.
"Asking if the Spurs fanbase had a large black following and started referring to themselves as 'N Army' is very comparable"
Anyone who thinks this is a sensible question in the context of this debate... well, I'm struggling to find the words.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
Tamwolf (U17286)
Look at scenario that was presented to me, which you joined in the argument for - you're the only one speaking crap.
And yes, your example is also ridiculous.
The connection between Jewish people and Spurs goes back many years, as does the use of the word. To compare that with a scenario, the modern day, where a group of people suddenly start calling themselves N army is moronic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't care about the argument that was presented to you. I care about the discussion we have had which you have called whataboutery.
It appears you can't even justify your own argument with resorting to name calling and trying to shutdown opposing opinions without discussing them.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
"Asking if the Spurs fanbase had a large black following and started referring to themselves as 'N Army' is very comparable"
Anyone who thinks this is a sensible question in the context of this debate... well, I'm struggling to find the words.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well you have a large Jewish fanbase and use a traditional derogatory term to name yourselves. Its exactly the same really.
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not. As previously stated, there is no issue with Jewish people reclaiming a word, if they decide it is not offensive to do so. Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So let's say that 5% of the attendance at WHL are Jewish.
Of the 60k fans there, are the 3,000 Jewish fans allowed to continue to sing Yiid Army?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not for me to decide. I'm only giving my opinion on whether Spurs fans should used a word which Jewish people consider derogatory. I don't think they should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, you've given your opinion... And then gone on to say how we all need to educate ourselves.
Then continued for 2 hours.
The person with the major issue about this is the Liverpool fan who lives like 250 miles away from WHL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Once again, I don't have a major issue, or even an issue. It's Jewish people who have an issue with the derogatory word. I don't know why you're trying to turn this on me.
How many times do I have to explain I don't have an issue with it? Or do you just want to get away from the fact that it's Jewish people who have an issue with it?
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
I'd absolutely love a Black Mirror type scenario where we could plug in the situation to be reversed and see what TOOR had to say about it, if it were Liverpool fans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Love that series.
I always go with what I feel, in instances like this, who you support shouldn't come into it. I Jewish people find it offensive, don't say it. It's really simple. It doesn't take anything from you to stop saying it.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not. As previously stated, there is no issue with Jewish people reclaiming a word, if they decide it is not offensive to do so. Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So let's say that 5% of the attendance at WHL are Jewish.
Of the 60k fans there, are the 3,000 Jewish fans allowed to continue to sing Yiid Army?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not for me to decide. I'm only giving my opinion on whether Spurs fans should used a word which Jewish people consider derogatory. I don't think they should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, you've given your opinion... And then gone on to say how we all need to educate ourselves.
Then continued for 2 hours.
The person with the major issue about this is the Liverpool fan who lives like 250 miles away from WHL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Once again, I don't have a major issue, or even an issue. It's Jewish people who have an issue with the derogatory word. I don't know why you're trying to turn this on me.
How many times do I have to explain I don't have an issue with it? Or do you just want to get away from the fact that it's Jewish people who have an issue with it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You keep saying "Jewish People" have an issue with it.
I have a lot of Jewish family members, and like I've already said, they have no issue with it whatsoever.
So which "Jewish People" are you talking about specifically?
Sign in if you want to comment
Y!D - Now in the Oxford Dictionary
Page 9 of 13
9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13
posted on 13/2/20
Oh and TOOR, we'll add the 'it's an arrestable offence' comment to the list of things you're wrong about and can't admit it.
You wonder why debates get into semantics and repetitiveness, but that's why.
All you had to do was check your facts and acknowledge your error.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
"Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish."
TOOR, it's a fact that some Jewish people are Spurs fans and use this word in the stadium.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it wasn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore it follows that you are saying those people need educating.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it doesn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it does.
You said Spurs fans who use the word need educating.
They are Spurs fans using the word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes Spurs fans, not Jews. As I said before Spurs fans are not Jews. Yes there are a very small percentage which are but the two are not synonymous and that's the whole issue the Jewish community have with them using the derogatory term.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 10 minutes ago
TOOR, if you eat meat then you offend a fair few people around the world.
If you swear in earshot of others, chances are you have offended someone.
We could go all day with examples of things that offend people. That alone is not enough to state that people are doing something wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite laughable that you would post something like this, whilst simultaneously accusing everyone who posts something you don't like of 'whataboutery'.
posted on 13/2/20
"whilst simultaneously accusing everyone who posts something you don't like of 'whataboutery'."
I accused one person of it.
And mine isn't whataboutery. I'm giving examples of how things you do offend people but it doesn't mean that the thing being done is necessarily wrong, that's all.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
"Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish."
TOOR, it's a fact that some Jewish people are Spurs fans and use this word in the stadium.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it wasn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore it follows that you are saying those people need educating.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it doesn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it does.
You said Spurs fans who use the word need educating.
They are Spurs fans using the word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes Spurs fans, not Jews. As I said before Spurs fans are not Jews. Yes there are a very small percentage which are but the two are not synonymous and that's the whole issue the Jewish community have with them using the derogatory term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But there are Jewish Spurs fans who use this word.
So perhaps you can clarify; do you think those people need educating or not?
posted on 13/2/20
This is al the dictionary’s fault
posted on 13/2/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not. As previously stated, there is no issue with Jewish people reclaiming a word, if they decide it is not offensive to do so. Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So let's say that 5% of the attendance at WHL are Jewish.
Of the 60k fans there, are the 3,000 Jewish fans allowed to continue to sing Yiid Army?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not for me to decide. I'm only giving my opinion on whether Spurs fans should used a word which Jewish people consider derogatory. I don't think they should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, you've given your opinion... And then gone on to say how we all need to educate ourselves.
Then continued for 2 hours.
The person with the major issue about this is the Liverpool fan who lives like 250 miles away from WHL
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
Oh and TOOR, we'll add the 'it's an arrestable offence' comment to the list of things you're wrong about and can't admit it.
You wonder why debates get into semantics and repetitiveness, but that's why.
All you had to do was check your facts and acknowledge your error.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How can I admit something I don't know? I told you what Scotland Yard said. I haven't seen anything to the contrary. If you want to say Scotland Yard are wrong, then show me the evidence. I can't not believe something from Scotland Yard because you said so, can I?
posted on 13/2/20
I'd absolutely love a Black Mirror type scenario where we could plug in the situation to be reversed and see what TOOR had to say about it, if it were Liverpool fans.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not. As previously stated, there is no issue with Jewish people reclaiming a word, if they decide it is not offensive to do so. Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So let's say that 5% of the attendance at WHL are Jewish.
Of the 60k fans there, are the 3,000 Jewish fans allowed to continue to sing Yiid Army?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not for me to decide. I'm only giving my opinion on whether Spurs fans should used a word which Jewish people consider derogatory. I don't think they should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, you've given your opinion... And then gone on to say how we all need to educate ourselves.
Then continued for 2 hours.
The person with the major issue about this is the Liverpool fan who lives like 250 miles away from WHL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and you keep saying "Jewish people" implying that all Jewish people find the word derogatory when that simply is not the case.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
Oh and TOOR, we'll add the 'it's an arrestable offence' comment to the list of things you're wrong about and can't admit it.
You wonder why debates get into semantics and repetitiveness, but that's why.
All you had to do was check your facts and acknowledge your error.
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How can I admit something I don't know? I told you what Scotland Yard said. I haven't seen anything to the contrary. If you want to say Scotland Yard are wrong, then show me the evidence. I can't not believe something from Scotland Yard because you said so, can I?
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I told you about the statement.
Why not check it for yourself?
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
Tamwolf (U17286)
No, the person who raised it was.
And no it doesn't show a double standard. They're two entirely different situations.
It's perfectly plausible to think one is acceptable and the other is not. To say otherwise is ridiculous.
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They weren't that different. Asking if the Spurs fanbase had a large black following and started referring to themselves as 'N Army' is very comparable. Both are derogatory terms used against oppressed people / races.
It is perfectly reasonable to ask someone why they think the two situations are different. It is ridiculous to suggest that it shouldn't be discussed and repeatedly refuse to do so.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
"whilst simultaneously accusing everyone who posts something you don't like of 'whataboutery'."
I accused one person of it.
And mine isn't whataboutery. I'm giving examples of how things you do offend people but it doesn't mean that the thing being done is necessarily wrong, that's all.
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Using your words:
'They're two entirely different situations.
It's perfectly plausible to think one is acceptable and the other is not. To say otherwise is ridiculous.'
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
Tamwolf (U17286)
No, the person who raised it was.
And no it doesn't show a double standard. They're two entirely different situations.
It's perfectly plausible to think one is acceptable and the other is not. To say otherwise is ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They weren't that different. Asking if the Spurs fanbase had a large black following and started referring to themselves as 'N Army' is very comparable. Both are derogatory terms used against oppressed people / races.
It is perfectly reasonable to ask someone why they think the two situations are different. It is ridiculous to suggest that it shouldn't be discussed and repeatedly refuse to do so.
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They're massively different.
And no, it's not ridiculous to dismiss whataboutery.
If you want to debate the use of this word in the stadium then great, go ahead, but cut the crap that by thinking it's okay, it also means you think it's okay for people to walk into a bar and use the n word to their mates.
It's a bullsheite opinion that doesn't deserve discussing.
posted on 13/2/20
Tamwolf (U17286)
Yes, but I'm not using my scenario to dismiss or refute his.
I'm simply using them to say that it is possible for something to be regarded as offensive (to some) yet entirely acceptable.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
Tamwolf (U17286)
No, the person who raised it was.
And no it doesn't show a double standard. They're two entirely different situations.
It's perfectly plausible to think one is acceptable and the other is not. To say otherwise is ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They weren't that different. Asking if the Spurs fanbase had a large black following and started referring to themselves as 'N Army' is very comparable. Both are derogatory terms used against oppressed people / races.
It is perfectly reasonable to ask someone why they think the two situations are different. It is ridiculous to suggest that it shouldn't be discussed and repeatedly refuse to do so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're massively different.
And no, it's not ridiculous to dismiss whataboutery.
If you want to debate the use of this word in the stadium then great, go ahead, but cut the crap that by thinking it's okay, it also means you think it's okay for people to walk into a bar and use the n word to their mates.
It's a bullsheite opinion that doesn't deserve discussing.
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I have never once said it would make it ok to walk into a bar a shout the 'N word' at your mates. I think it is you that needs to cut the crap.
The comparison is in the post above, read it again (it is nothing like you just described) and tell me why one would be ok and the other wouldn't. Should be easy for you. You have already told me its ridiculous that a comparison can be drawn.
posted on 13/2/20
Does anyone find the term paddy used to describe the Irish as offensive?
I don’t but know some who do.
posted on 13/2/20
Tamwolf (U17286)
Look at scenario that was presented to me, which you joined in the argument for - you're the only one speaking crap.
And yes, your example is also ridiculous.
The connection between Jewish people and Spurs goes back many years, as does the use of the word. To compare that with a scenario, the modern day, where a group of people suddenly start calling themselves N army is moronic.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
Tamwolf (U17286)
Yes, but I'm not using my scenario to dismiss or refute his.
I'm simply using them to say that it is possible for something to be regarded as offensive (to some) yet entirely acceptable.
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You are using it to refute his argument though. It wasn't to stress any point, it was to refute the fact that the word is offensive in any context by applying a completely different situation.
posted on 13/2/20
"Asking if the Spurs fanbase had a large black following and started referring to themselves as 'N Army' is very comparable"
Anyone who thinks this is a sensible question in the context of this debate... well, I'm struggling to find the words.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
Tamwolf (U17286)
Look at scenario that was presented to me, which you joined in the argument for - you're the only one speaking crap.
And yes, your example is also ridiculous.
The connection between Jewish people and Spurs goes back many years, as does the use of the word. To compare that with a scenario, the modern day, where a group of people suddenly start calling themselves N army is moronic.
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I don't care about the argument that was presented to you. I care about the discussion we have had which you have called whataboutery.
It appears you can't even justify your own argument with resorting to name calling and trying to shutdown opposing opinions without discussing them.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
"Asking if the Spurs fanbase had a large black following and started referring to themselves as 'N Army' is very comparable"
Anyone who thinks this is a sensible question in the context of this debate... well, I'm struggling to find the words.
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Well you have a large Jewish fanbase and use a traditional derogatory term to name yourselves. Its exactly the same really.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
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I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
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You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
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No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
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You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
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No, I'm not. As previously stated, there is no issue with Jewish people reclaiming a word, if they decide it is not offensive to do so. Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish.
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So let's say that 5% of the attendance at WHL are Jewish.
Of the 60k fans there, are the 3,000 Jewish fans allowed to continue to sing Yiid Army?
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That's not for me to decide. I'm only giving my opinion on whether Spurs fans should used a word which Jewish people consider derogatory. I don't think they should.
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Well, you've given your opinion... And then gone on to say how we all need to educate ourselves.
Then continued for 2 hours.
The person with the major issue about this is the Liverpool fan who lives like 250 miles away from WHL
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Once again, I don't have a major issue, or even an issue. It's Jewish people who have an issue with the derogatory word. I don't know why you're trying to turn this on me.
How many times do I have to explain I don't have an issue with it? Or do you just want to get away from the fact that it's Jewish people who have an issue with it?
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
I'd absolutely love a Black Mirror type scenario where we could plug in the situation to be reversed and see what TOOR had to say about it, if it were Liverpool fans.
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Love that series.
I always go with what I feel, in instances like this, who you support shouldn't come into it. I Jewish people find it offensive, don't say it. It's really simple. It doesn't take anything from you to stop saying it.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Doovdé™ (U2996)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR, didn't notice you acknowledge you were wrong about it being an arrestable offence - did I miss that?
You seem obsessed with the fact that some people find it offensive.
We know that.
It's good to know that you're around to educate Jewish people on the subject at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no intention of educating Jewish people, or anybody for that matter. All I stated is that there are Jewish communities around the world who are offended by the use of a derogatory word. Which I can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said it's about education.
There are Jewish fans in the stadium using this word.
So by default, you're saying those Jewish people need educating and also by default, you're claiming that you are more educated than those people on the subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not, you're saying I'm saying that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realise that the words you use have meaning, don't you?
If you claim that people using this word need education then you are by default saying that a Jewish person using this word needs education.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I'm not. As previously stated, there is no issue with Jewish people reclaiming a word, if they decide it is not offensive to do so. Spurs fans aren't Jews. The estimate is less 5% of Spurs fans are Jewish.
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So let's say that 5% of the attendance at WHL are Jewish.
Of the 60k fans there, are the 3,000 Jewish fans allowed to continue to sing Yiid Army?
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That's not for me to decide. I'm only giving my opinion on whether Spurs fans should used a word which Jewish people consider derogatory. I don't think they should.
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Well, you've given your opinion... And then gone on to say how we all need to educate ourselves.
Then continued for 2 hours.
The person with the major issue about this is the Liverpool fan who lives like 250 miles away from WHL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Once again, I don't have a major issue, or even an issue. It's Jewish people who have an issue with the derogatory word. I don't know why you're trying to turn this on me.
How many times do I have to explain I don't have an issue with it? Or do you just want to get away from the fact that it's Jewish people who have an issue with it?
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You keep saying "Jewish People" have an issue with it.
I have a lot of Jewish family members, and like I've already said, they have no issue with it whatsoever.
So which "Jewish People" are you talking about specifically?
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