Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
There is and always has been a deep lying hatred of America in the UK which I feel raises its head whenever there’s an opportunity to kick the US when it’s down- whereas because China is so far away and doesn’t seem like a threat they don’t get anywhere near as much fair criticism their way.
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Joe Goldberg (U18355)
posted 50 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot and is definitely shifting the blame but make no mistake whatsoever, he is 100% correct about the WHO both dropping the ball and being China centric.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WHO did not drop the ball saan. I work for what could be deemed their parent organisation.
To make this decision you need to be aware of the powers that the WHO has and doesn't have. Nations are nationalistic and cling to sovereignty. Leaders like Trump and Boris Johnson are at the forefront of denying these organisations more powers in the name of nationalism and sovereignty.
The WHO and many similar organisations have been rendered legally toothless. They're at the mercy of nations and their own existence is under threat, leaving them to pander and beg to nations for everything.
The common man only reads the media. Organisations like WHO are charged with a great responsibility but in the deep of it they are curtailed and limited at every turn.
WHO can't tell China nothing. They have to go by what China (and any other nation) tells them. Even when Ebola resurfaces, for example, they have the freedom because those nations welcome them and give them authority. When it comes to nations like China, they don't even leave their offices. The report will come by email.
The future of the world lies in organisations like the WHO, not puny national institutions which are in competition with one another(when we are all on the same spaceship hurtling through space) and out for profit. Covid should be proof of this. The world is now just a village, whether people like it or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe they could grow a pair and say " unfortunately we can't advise the world because China refuse to cooperate" instead of peddling data that deep inside they knew was almost certainly false "no human to human transmission"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I'm sure you would criticise them for that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I wouldn't. Anyone who stands up to China is a hero in my book. Also I've just remembered their refusal to acknowledge Taiwan despite their incredible containment and then only recognising them to call them racist. How can you defend that? There is pandering and then there is outright doing the political bidding of China. WHO have done the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US and UK dont recognise Taiwan. What do you make of that?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
If people want the WHO to do its job as charged with "the health of the whole world" then it needs powers to overrule and force China and other nations to submit to tests and other regulations.
They need powers to send their own experts into these areas and act individually and independently, not wait for approval at every stage which allows the nations to do what it wants.
The independence they have now is a façade. After that you can point the finger at them.
With the world wide drive for nationalism and putting your own country first, I can't see that happening anytime soon in the coming decades.
The world is currently going the other way. Some day it will realise this and turn back but every second wasted only makes the return journey longer and more treacherous.
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 13 minutes ago
China is the closest thing to National Socialist we have seen since Hitler, but because it's minorities doing it, the left is completely fine with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Goodwin's Law
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice deflection
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not deflection at all. There is no point entering a discussion with someone who thinks Hitler was a socialist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok that's not Goodwin's law anyway. I'm not calling him a socialist he was more of a centrist I'm calling him by the party he was in which was National Socialist party.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A centrist?
You betray a small sliver of your warped world view every single day you post here.
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 13 minutes ago
China is the closest thing to National Socialist we have seen since Hitler, but because it's minorities doing it, the left is completely fine with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Goodwin's Law
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice deflection
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not deflection at all. There is no point entering a discussion with someone who thinks Hitler was a socialist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok that's not Goodwin's law anyway. I'm not calling him a socialist he was more of a centrist I'm calling him by the party he was in which was National Socialist party.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hitler was a centrist?
So nothing like China then? They are national socialists who aren't in a party called that. Hitler was in a party called the national socialist party but wasn't a socialist. So your admitting your comparison was bollox.
It is Godwin's Law. If a discussion goes on for long enough, someone will make a comparison to Hitler. You win.
Tiittty isn’t the brightest when it comes to politics, he’s your bog standard Tory that infest the country these days.
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 32 seconds ago
This is twice now that China have refused to cooperate. Next time this happens (and there will be a next time as they have immediately opened up their disgusting wet markets again), every country should stop trade and travel and shut their borders with China immediately until the next disease their sheithole creates is eradicated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
According to China they followed the rules. According to WHO, China didn't cooperate. Rules made by nations and purposefully leaving loopholes because they don't know whether it will be them on the spot next time.
Fact is WHO cant do sheet and if they could, they would have. They are obligated to act in certain ways at certain points. They are not allowed to publicly oppose some things without conducting an independent assessment. The independent assessment must be approved and if approved conducted under the supervision and rules imposed by the country etc.
Its just smoke and mirrors. The nations ultimately do what they want. The WHO has been reduced to being used to rubber stamp things as legit. It started off well but over the decades the amendments to the charters has rendered them near toothless.
This is what we’re dealing with at the WHO...
‘While Washington pays, Beijing works behind the scenes to influence WHO leaders. The current director-general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, was backed strongly by the Chinese government during his campaign for the job. Mr. Tedros was a controversial pick, dogged by allegations of having covered up cholera outbreaks in his native Ethiopia, where he served as health minister (2005-12) and foreign minister (2012-16). During those years, China invested in Ethiopia and lent it billions of dollars. Shortly after winning his WHO election, Mr. Tedros traveled to Beijing and lauded the country’s health-care system: “We can all learn something from China.”
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
His just doing what all politicians do when in a corner , lie and blame everyone else
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Tamwolf has made many sensible comments here.
comment by Robb, the fifth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb, the fifth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
It’s not quite as simple as that. The US does support Taiwan as much as possible without stoking flames of a war with China.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So the most powerful country on earth gets more leeway for treading lightly with China than an organisation charged with overseeing global health that relies on China being open to them in order to obtain as precise an information as they can get? Not sure how that makes sense to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that a serious question?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it was. Aylward (I think that's his name) looked very bad refusing to answer the reporter's questions on Taiwan, but cooperation from China was paramount, the WHO simply couldn't risk having its information lines from China cut due to a diplomatic row that is neither its immediate remit nor concern.
As for the rest, here are a few things for you to consider:
China is a dictatorship; as such, freedoms are severely restricted. The culture is also wildly different to ours in the West. Simply put, China (like Russia or Iran) is one of the favourite pantomime villains of our Western political dramas.
These are very important factors to bear in mind as regards how they inform our own readiness or reluctance to accept media reporting or social media stories about China in general and this pandemic in particular.
Of course China will have made mistakes, but they have also got a lot right in terms of dealing with the outbreak, much more than most Western countries. Undoubtably, some of the measures taken their for social control would currently be unthinkable in our societies.
The silencing of the whistleblower doctors was a royal fackup, but it was ordered by local authorities, not the central government: as soon as the story emerged, Beijing sacked the local head of the CCP responsible for the arrests.
When they ordered the lockdown in Wuhan and then the whole of Hubei, they came in for criticism virtually across the board from Western media. The WHO was virtually the sole party saying that such extreme measures were necessary.
Generally speaking, there was a commitment from the Chinese authorities to remain as transparent as possible from the start of this outbreak, because their attempted cover-up of the SARS outbreak had caused them huge diplomatic problems back in the day and they didn't want a repeat of that.
However, they needed to balance that with the potential international and economic repercussions of full-scale lockdown on international travel and trade. Of course that's going to lead to a certain degree of indecision and to mistakes being made, but I think it needs recognising that the situation was just as, if not more difficult for China than it has been for our governments in the West - especially as they had many, many more unknowns to deal with than we had once the epidemic reached our shores.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Robb, the fifth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 12 minutes ago
There is and always has been a deep lying hatred of America in the UK which I feel raises its head whenever there’s an opportunity to kick the US when it’s down- whereas because China is so far away and doesn’t seem like a threat they don’t get anywhere near as much fair criticism their way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't think that's the case at all. China aren't covered well in the press here and there is an agreement on them by most. The US has more influence here that it may seem that way to you.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb, the fifth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb, the fifth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
It’s not quite as simple as that. The US does support Taiwan as much as possible without stoking flames of a war with China.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So the most powerful country on earth gets more leeway for treading lightly with China than an organisation charged with overseeing global health that relies on China being open to them in order to obtain as precise an information as they can get? Not sure how that makes sense to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that a serious question?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it was. Aylward (I think that's his name) looked very bad refusing to answer the reporter's questions on Taiwan, but cooperation from China was paramount, the WHO simply couldn't risk having its information lines from China cut due to a diplomatic row that is neither its immediate remit nor concern.
As for the rest, here are a few things for you to consider:
China is a dictatorship; as such, freedoms are severely restricted. The culture is also wildly different to ours in the West. Simply put, China (like Russia or Iran) is one of the favourite pantomime villains of our Western political dramas.
These are very important factors to bear in mind as regards how they inform our own readiness or reluctance to accept media reporting or social media stories about China in general and this pandemic in particular.
Of course China will have made mistakes, but they have also got a lot right in terms of dealing with the outbreak, much more than most Western countries. Undoubtably, some of the measures taken their for social control would currently be unthinkable in our societies.
The silencing of the whistleblower doctors was a royal fackup, but it was ordered by local authorities, not the central government: as soon as the story emerged, Beijing sacked the local head of the CCP responsible for the arrests.
When they ordered the lockdown in Wuhan and then the whole of Hubei, they came in for criticism virtually across the board from Western media. The WHO was virtually the sole party saying that such extreme measures were necessary.
Generally speaking, there was a commitment from the Chinese authorities to remain as transparent as possible from the start of this outbreak, because their attempted cover-up of the SARS outbreak had caused them huge diplomatic problems back in the day and they didn't want a repeat of that.
However, they needed to balance that with the potential international and economic repercussions of full-scale lockdown on international travel and trade. Of course that's going to lead to a certain degree of indecision and to mistakes being made, but I think it needs recognising that the situation was just as, if not more difficult for China than it has been for our governments in the West - especially as they had many, many more unknowns to deal with than we had once the epidemic reached our shores.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've also seen talk of compensation from China but any load would be suffered by the Chinese population who are just regular blokes like you and me, not by the dictatorship.
comment by Robb, the fifth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 9 minutes ago
This is what we’re dealing with at the WHO...
‘While Washington pays, Beijing works behind the scenes to influence WHO leaders. The current director-general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, was backed strongly by the Chinese government during his campaign for the job. Mr. Tedros was a controversial pick, dogged by allegations of having covered up cholera outbreaks in his native Ethiopia, where he served as health minister (2005-12) and foreign minister (2012-16). During those years, China invested in Ethiopia and lent it billions of dollars. Shortly after winning his WHO election, Mr. Tedros traveled to Beijing and lauded the country’s health-care system: “We can all learn something from China.”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those allegations came from an American who was supporting his rival for the post in WHO. Africa was also supporting him, not just China.
This isn't to say he isn't corrupt. He supported Mugabe. Africa has rampant corruption. On top of that, China has been spending money and buying influence in Africa and Asia. This is their soft power approach to international relations.
The WHO is an imperfect organisation. But this blame laid on them by Trump is a deflecting tactic for his own incompetence in handling the situation.
The leader of the WHO replied to criticism by talking about body bags,i think that's what did it for them
The silencing of the whistleblower doctors was a royal fackup, but it was ordered by local authorities, not the central government: as soon as the story emerged, Beijing sacked the local head of the CCP responsible for the arrests.
------
China has local, regional/provincial, and national/central levels of government. Usually, those in positions of power try to contain or cover up such things in order to position in power.
There was an issue not too long ago with pigs from one area affected with a disease covered up the illness until others noticed it. The local government, in order to protect the locals economy didn't say anything until too late. This seems a common thing with the local governments in China.
WHO and other similar organisations are only as perfect as they're allowed to be. Their relevance and importance is reduced all the time but when catastrophe strikes they are quickly and conveniently used as a get-out, for deflection and shifting blame by nations and their leadership.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/17/business/china-pigs-african-swine-fever.html
This is what I mean.
Sign in if you want to comment
Trump suspending WHO contribution
Page 5 of 22
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posted on 15/4/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 15/4/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 15/4/20
There is and always has been a deep lying hatred of America in the UK which I feel raises its head whenever there’s an opportunity to kick the US when it’s down- whereas because China is so far away and doesn’t seem like a threat they don’t get anywhere near as much fair criticism their way.
posted on 15/4/20
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Joe Goldberg (U18355)
posted 50 minutes ago
Trump is an idiot and is definitely shifting the blame but make no mistake whatsoever, he is 100% correct about the WHO both dropping the ball and being China centric.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WHO did not drop the ball saan. I work for what could be deemed their parent organisation.
To make this decision you need to be aware of the powers that the WHO has and doesn't have. Nations are nationalistic and cling to sovereignty. Leaders like Trump and Boris Johnson are at the forefront of denying these organisations more powers in the name of nationalism and sovereignty.
The WHO and many similar organisations have been rendered legally toothless. They're at the mercy of nations and their own existence is under threat, leaving them to pander and beg to nations for everything.
The common man only reads the media. Organisations like WHO are charged with a great responsibility but in the deep of it they are curtailed and limited at every turn.
WHO can't tell China nothing. They have to go by what China (and any other nation) tells them. Even when Ebola resurfaces, for example, they have the freedom because those nations welcome them and give them authority. When it comes to nations like China, they don't even leave their offices. The report will come by email.
The future of the world lies in organisations like the WHO, not puny national institutions which are in competition with one another(when we are all on the same spaceship hurtling through space) and out for profit. Covid should be proof of this. The world is now just a village, whether people like it or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe they could grow a pair and say " unfortunately we can't advise the world because China refuse to cooperate" instead of peddling data that deep inside they knew was almost certainly false "no human to human transmission"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I'm sure you would criticise them for that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I wouldn't. Anyone who stands up to China is a hero in my book. Also I've just remembered their refusal to acknowledge Taiwan despite their incredible containment and then only recognising them to call them racist. How can you defend that? There is pandering and then there is outright doing the political bidding of China. WHO have done the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US and UK dont recognise Taiwan. What do you make of that?
posted on 15/4/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 15/4/20
If people want the WHO to do its job as charged with "the health of the whole world" then it needs powers to overrule and force China and other nations to submit to tests and other regulations.
They need powers to send their own experts into these areas and act individually and independently, not wait for approval at every stage which allows the nations to do what it wants.
The independence they have now is a façade. After that you can point the finger at them.
With the world wide drive for nationalism and putting your own country first, I can't see that happening anytime soon in the coming decades.
The world is currently going the other way. Some day it will realise this and turn back but every second wasted only makes the return journey longer and more treacherous.
posted on 15/4/20
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 13 minutes ago
China is the closest thing to National Socialist we have seen since Hitler, but because it's minorities doing it, the left is completely fine with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Goodwin's Law
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice deflection
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not deflection at all. There is no point entering a discussion with someone who thinks Hitler was a socialist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok that's not Goodwin's law anyway. I'm not calling him a socialist he was more of a centrist I'm calling him by the party he was in which was National Socialist party.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A centrist?
You betray a small sliver of your warped world view every single day you post here.
posted on 15/4/20
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 13 minutes ago
China is the closest thing to National Socialist we have seen since Hitler, but because it's minorities doing it, the left is completely fine with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Goodwin's Law
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice deflection
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not deflection at all. There is no point entering a discussion with someone who thinks Hitler was a socialist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok that's not Goodwin's law anyway. I'm not calling him a socialist he was more of a centrist I'm calling him by the party he was in which was National Socialist party.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hitler was a centrist?
So nothing like China then? They are national socialists who aren't in a party called that. Hitler was in a party called the national socialist party but wasn't a socialist. So your admitting your comparison was bollox.
It is Godwin's Law. If a discussion goes on for long enough, someone will make a comparison to Hitler. You win.
posted on 15/4/20
Tiittty isn’t the brightest when it comes to politics, he’s your bog standard Tory that infest the country these days.
posted on 15/4/20
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 32 seconds ago
This is twice now that China have refused to cooperate. Next time this happens (and there will be a next time as they have immediately opened up their disgusting wet markets again), every country should stop trade and travel and shut their borders with China immediately until the next disease their sheithole creates is eradicated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
According to China they followed the rules. According to WHO, China didn't cooperate. Rules made by nations and purposefully leaving loopholes because they don't know whether it will be them on the spot next time.
Fact is WHO cant do sheet and if they could, they would have. They are obligated to act in certain ways at certain points. They are not allowed to publicly oppose some things without conducting an independent assessment. The independent assessment must be approved and if approved conducted under the supervision and rules imposed by the country etc.
Its just smoke and mirrors. The nations ultimately do what they want. The WHO has been reduced to being used to rubber stamp things as legit. It started off well but over the decades the amendments to the charters has rendered them near toothless.
posted on 15/4/20
This is what we’re dealing with at the WHO...
‘While Washington pays, Beijing works behind the scenes to influence WHO leaders. The current director-general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, was backed strongly by the Chinese government during his campaign for the job. Mr. Tedros was a controversial pick, dogged by allegations of having covered up cholera outbreaks in his native Ethiopia, where he served as health minister (2005-12) and foreign minister (2012-16). During those years, China invested in Ethiopia and lent it billions of dollars. Shortly after winning his WHO election, Mr. Tedros traveled to Beijing and lauded the country’s health-care system: “We can all learn something from China.”
posted on 15/4/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 15/4/20
His just doing what all politicians do when in a corner , lie and blame everyone else
posted on 15/4/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 15/4/20
Tamwolf has made many sensible comments here.
posted on 15/4/20
comment by Robb, the fifth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb, the fifth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
It’s not quite as simple as that. The US does support Taiwan as much as possible without stoking flames of a war with China.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So the most powerful country on earth gets more leeway for treading lightly with China than an organisation charged with overseeing global health that relies on China being open to them in order to obtain as precise an information as they can get? Not sure how that makes sense to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that a serious question?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it was. Aylward (I think that's his name) looked very bad refusing to answer the reporter's questions on Taiwan, but cooperation from China was paramount, the WHO simply couldn't risk having its information lines from China cut due to a diplomatic row that is neither its immediate remit nor concern.
As for the rest, here are a few things for you to consider:
China is a dictatorship; as such, freedoms are severely restricted. The culture is also wildly different to ours in the West. Simply put, China (like Russia or Iran) is one of the favourite pantomime villains of our Western political dramas.
These are very important factors to bear in mind as regards how they inform our own readiness or reluctance to accept media reporting or social media stories about China in general and this pandemic in particular.
Of course China will have made mistakes, but they have also got a lot right in terms of dealing with the outbreak, much more than most Western countries. Undoubtably, some of the measures taken their for social control would currently be unthinkable in our societies.
The silencing of the whistleblower doctors was a royal fackup, but it was ordered by local authorities, not the central government: as soon as the story emerged, Beijing sacked the local head of the CCP responsible for the arrests.
When they ordered the lockdown in Wuhan and then the whole of Hubei, they came in for criticism virtually across the board from Western media. The WHO was virtually the sole party saying that such extreme measures were necessary.
Generally speaking, there was a commitment from the Chinese authorities to remain as transparent as possible from the start of this outbreak, because their attempted cover-up of the SARS outbreak had caused them huge diplomatic problems back in the day and they didn't want a repeat of that.
However, they needed to balance that with the potential international and economic repercussions of full-scale lockdown on international travel and trade. Of course that's going to lead to a certain degree of indecision and to mistakes being made, but I think it needs recognising that the situation was just as, if not more difficult for China than it has been for our governments in the West - especially as they had many, many more unknowns to deal with than we had once the epidemic reached our shores.
posted on 15/4/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 15/4/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 15/4/20
comment by Robb, the fifth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 12 minutes ago
There is and always has been a deep lying hatred of America in the UK which I feel raises its head whenever there’s an opportunity to kick the US when it’s down- whereas because China is so far away and doesn’t seem like a threat they don’t get anywhere near as much fair criticism their way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't think that's the case at all. China aren't covered well in the press here and there is an agreement on them by most. The US has more influence here that it may seem that way to you.
posted on 15/4/20
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb, the fifth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb, the fifth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
It’s not quite as simple as that. The US does support Taiwan as much as possible without stoking flames of a war with China.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So the most powerful country on earth gets more leeway for treading lightly with China than an organisation charged with overseeing global health that relies on China being open to them in order to obtain as precise an information as they can get? Not sure how that makes sense to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that a serious question?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it was. Aylward (I think that's his name) looked very bad refusing to answer the reporter's questions on Taiwan, but cooperation from China was paramount, the WHO simply couldn't risk having its information lines from China cut due to a diplomatic row that is neither its immediate remit nor concern.
As for the rest, here are a few things for you to consider:
China is a dictatorship; as such, freedoms are severely restricted. The culture is also wildly different to ours in the West. Simply put, China (like Russia or Iran) is one of the favourite pantomime villains of our Western political dramas.
These are very important factors to bear in mind as regards how they inform our own readiness or reluctance to accept media reporting or social media stories about China in general and this pandemic in particular.
Of course China will have made mistakes, but they have also got a lot right in terms of dealing with the outbreak, much more than most Western countries. Undoubtably, some of the measures taken their for social control would currently be unthinkable in our societies.
The silencing of the whistleblower doctors was a royal fackup, but it was ordered by local authorities, not the central government: as soon as the story emerged, Beijing sacked the local head of the CCP responsible for the arrests.
When they ordered the lockdown in Wuhan and then the whole of Hubei, they came in for criticism virtually across the board from Western media. The WHO was virtually the sole party saying that such extreme measures were necessary.
Generally speaking, there was a commitment from the Chinese authorities to remain as transparent as possible from the start of this outbreak, because their attempted cover-up of the SARS outbreak had caused them huge diplomatic problems back in the day and they didn't want a repeat of that.
However, they needed to balance that with the potential international and economic repercussions of full-scale lockdown on international travel and trade. Of course that's going to lead to a certain degree of indecision and to mistakes being made, but I think it needs recognising that the situation was just as, if not more difficult for China than it has been for our governments in the West - especially as they had many, many more unknowns to deal with than we had once the epidemic reached our shores.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've also seen talk of compensation from China but any load would be suffered by the Chinese population who are just regular blokes like you and me, not by the dictatorship.
posted on 15/4/20
comment by Robb, the fifth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 9 minutes ago
This is what we’re dealing with at the WHO...
‘While Washington pays, Beijing works behind the scenes to influence WHO leaders. The current director-general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, was backed strongly by the Chinese government during his campaign for the job. Mr. Tedros was a controversial pick, dogged by allegations of having covered up cholera outbreaks in his native Ethiopia, where he served as health minister (2005-12) and foreign minister (2012-16). During those years, China invested in Ethiopia and lent it billions of dollars. Shortly after winning his WHO election, Mr. Tedros traveled to Beijing and lauded the country’s health-care system: “We can all learn something from China.”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those allegations came from an American who was supporting his rival for the post in WHO. Africa was also supporting him, not just China.
This isn't to say he isn't corrupt. He supported Mugabe. Africa has rampant corruption. On top of that, China has been spending money and buying influence in Africa and Asia. This is their soft power approach to international relations.
The WHO is an imperfect organisation. But this blame laid on them by Trump is a deflecting tactic for his own incompetence in handling the situation.
posted on 15/4/20
The leader of the WHO replied to criticism by talking about body bags,i think that's what did it for them
posted on 15/4/20
The silencing of the whistleblower doctors was a royal fackup, but it was ordered by local authorities, not the central government: as soon as the story emerged, Beijing sacked the local head of the CCP responsible for the arrests.
------
China has local, regional/provincial, and national/central levels of government. Usually, those in positions of power try to contain or cover up such things in order to position in power.
There was an issue not too long ago with pigs from one area affected with a disease covered up the illness until others noticed it. The local government, in order to protect the locals economy didn't say anything until too late. This seems a common thing with the local governments in China.
posted on 15/4/20
WHO and other similar organisations are only as perfect as they're allowed to be. Their relevance and importance is reduced all the time but when catastrophe strikes they are quickly and conveniently used as a get-out, for deflection and shifting blame by nations and their leadership.
posted on 15/4/20
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/17/business/china-pigs-african-swine-fever.html
This is what I mean.
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