That's South Korea which is next door to China btw
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think people need to look at the cold hard facts before shoving the blame game constantly with political agendas. Let’s be honest, it’s all biased political bukls** on here. Labour would be doing a much better job blah blah blah. The facts are we are country with a population of over 65 mil and the size of roughy 150,000 sqm. Take France for instance, which has a very similar population , but has the size is over 500,000 sqm making it almost 5x that of the U.K.. The rates in death were always going to be very high here regardless of the Tories. When are people going to get this in their stupid heads ? Instead of spouting political rubbish on here, incredible
----------------------------------------------------------------------
South Korea has a similar population density so how does that work.
Fact is as the 6th wealthiest nation we have the 2nd highest death rate. All poorly performing countries in this regard (Brazil, UK and USA) have right wing Governments. Could be coincedence I guess.
To say 58,000 deaths in two months was always going to happen seems incredibly remiss.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
South Korea don’t get anywhere near the same tourists as this country gets dude. We get over 36 million visitors a year and are in the top 10 of most visited countries in the planet. London is one of the most visited cities on earth. All the different people from
Different countries coming over here and spreading it before we knew of it. Add to that, the population of this country and how small we are in comparison to other countries with similar populations, it was always going to spell disaster. I think people really need to lay off with their political bulls** point scoring on here.
That's fine Don but we're also an island nation. Sounds like you think the borders should have shut earlier tbh.
Ultimately though youre literally suggesting that Government has had no control over death rates which I just cant agree with.
Face it, theyve lied loads and done a sh!t job. It's okay to admit that.
To say 58,000 deaths in two months was always going to happen seems incredibly remiss.
When did the UK figure jump to 58k?
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 3 minutes ago
That's fine Don but we're also an island nation. Sounds like you think the borders should have shut earlier tbh.
Ultimately though youre literally suggesting that Government has had no control over death rates which I just cant agree with.
Face it, theyve lied loads and done a sh!t job. It's okay to admit that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not saying they are completely exempt from mistakes. But to sit there and say the Tory’s are solely to blame for our high deaths is incredibly short sighted mate. You honestly believe labour would of done any better ? Mistakes have been made, we know this, but like my reasonings above, I honestly don’t think we could of controlled this any better.
606 on Covid;
"NZ has done a much better job of handling corona virus than us"
"Yeah but they have a lower population"
"Germany has a bigger population and a much lower death toll"
"Yeah but they have a lower population density"
"South Korea has a similar population, similar density, is next to China, Covid hit 10 days before the UK and it has 1% of the death toll"
"STOP POLITICISING IT"
No offence. I just find it funny.
But to sit there and say the Tory’s are solely to blame for our high deaths is incredibly short sighted mate.
=======
It would be Don, but I haven't.
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 1 second ago
But to sit there and say the Tory’s are solely to blame for our high deaths is incredibly short sighted mate.
=======
It would be Don, but I haven't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it seems a lot of labour supporters on here are point scoring and saying just that mate
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 1 second ago
But to sit there and say the Tory’s are solely to blame for our high deaths is incredibly short sighted mate.
=======
It would be Don, but I haven't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it seems a lot of labour supporters on here are point scoring and saying just that mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you can post anyone saying the Tories are solely responsible fair enough but Ive not seen it.
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 1 second ago
But to sit there and say the Tory’s are solely to blame for our high deaths is incredibly short sighted mate.
=======
It would be Don, but I haven't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it seems a lot of labour supporters on here are point scoring and saying just that mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you can post anyone saying the Tories are solely responsible fair enough but Ive not seen it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sandy being one of them. Don’t even get me started on that c** Sizzle
At the end if the day this Government said 20k deaths would be doing a "good" job. That's their own words.
What kind of job is more than double that then?
Genuine question.
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I... (U6374)
posted 28 minutes ago
The rest is absolute flannel and does literally nothing to abate my point that Corbyn is quite obviously not anti semitic and neither was the party.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah like i said, blinkered and lacking objectivity.
Your statement is far from proven & Labours own internal investigation (leaked) raises all manner of issues about how the whole thing has been dealt with as do the leaked minutes of their disciplinary group.
If these accusations were towards the Tories you would not be calling them whiter than white as you are with JC & Labour, and i think you know that.
It's amazing that you can say that and your last sentence is simply an unsubstanciated guess based on a lack of objectivity amusingly. Please stop passing off your opinion as fact but what's clear is that you havent actually managed to grasp the issue.
That being, is Corbyn and indeed the Labour party anti semitic?
The fact you havent unserstood that and go down the route of whataboutery shows you have no business commenting.
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I... (U6374)
posted 18 minutes ago
At the end if the day this Government said 20k deaths would be doing a "good" job. That's their own words.
What kind of job is more than double that then?
Genuine question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well not quite:
“If we can keep deaths below 20,000 we will have done very well in this epidemic.”
Prof Stephen Powis, National Medical Director of NHS
Jenrick doing the daily briefing today. Soudns more like the budget, than talking about all the deaths, other 30,000 now. Hardly a mention, and then he finished off talking about VE day. Honestly who gives a monkeys about that, it was 75 years ago. Talk about deflecting from the Coronavirus.
This is from the report which Im sure youve read
*Names redacted*
6.8.4. Abuse from complainants
In 2019, half of all antisemitism complaints, and a third of all antisemitism cases, came from one individual.
This person’s complaints are typically poorly evidenced and submitted in a format that hinders investigation. This individual repeatedly emails about the same cases, cluttering the Complaints inbox and taking staff time, as staff always have to check whether a case already exists or not, and whether or not all the evidence the complainant is providing has already been logged.
A large proportion of the people this individual complains about are either not Party members or are already in the disciplinary process, something the complainant has been told repeatedly.
The complainant is often rude and abusive in their replies to staff responding to his complaints. The Party is also aware that the complainant uses similar language towards people, including Labour members, on social media.
As a good employer and the Party of workers’ rights, the Labour Party operates a
“Dignity at Work” policy which maintains that all staff must be able to carry out their work without experiencing abuse or harassment. This same complainant regularly emails targeting one staff member in GLU and making unfounded and offensive allegations about this staff member’s character.
This not only has an impact on this staff member’s working environment, but can also have an impact on the wider team, who regularly read such comments about their colleague and feel anxious that this individual may send emails making similar comments about them and other staff in the team in future.
However, GLU staff have nevertheless invested considerable resources in ensuring that all this complainant’s complaints are logged and investigated. Staff consider all complaints of antisemitism that have been raised with the party, even when the complainant is not a Party member or uses abusive language themselves.
6.8.4.i. Quality of complaints
The quality of the complaints submitted by this same individual - almost always screenshots of streams of Facebook posts, without identifying which comments are being complained about and why - are often poor quality.
The complainant often has no knowledge or evidence that the individual is a party
member and rarely provides any evidence pertaining to their location, details that are essential for identifying a member. When compared to complaints submitted by others, this person’s complaints are sparse in detail, and result in staff spending much longer trying to identify individuals as Labour members than normal.
In addition, this complainant appears to have a poor understanding of antisemitism, and what kinds of conduct the party can act on. For example, they regularly submit complaints about people sharing Jewish-related articles, with the comment “They’re not Jewish”. However, it is not antisemitic to, for example, simply share a Guardian letter in which Jewish people express support for Corbyn, regardless of whether one is Jewish or not.
In addition, the complainant does not use search features on social media, and instead scrolls down to periods of time he has identified as involving large amounts of discussion about antisemitism, most notably autumn 2018 during the IHRA controversy. This results in extensive screenshots of, for example, members simply supporting the Code of Conduct proposed, but not making any antisemitic comments.
Many of the suspensions and NOIs which have been imposed on individuals following complaints from this complainant have actually been a consequence of the additional social media searches GLU staff have conducted, which have revealed much more serious evidence of antisemitism than that submitted. This demonstrates the additional investigatory work that is often required by staff following complaints, and the importance of systematic social media searches by staff on all complaints the party receives, rather than only reviewing the evidence provided by complainants.
In autumn 2019, a staff member had a long conversation with this complainant,
lasting more than forty-five minutes, in which they attempted to assure them that their complaints were all being investigated, and urged them to comply with requests to submit complaints in the required format. The staff member also explained that many of the screenshots they submitted did not constitute a breach of the rules, and recommended that they should instead use search terms that related to antisemitic conduct, and focus on clear-cut cases.
In early February 2020 the same staff member reiterated:
"in a great many of your cases, the core case actually results from extra research – additional searches on their Facebook profiles – conducted by me and our team here. In some cases, for example, you have submitted someone with screenshots of them sharing a few articles discussing the issue of antisemitism in Labour, including from the Guardian; but our searches have uncovered extreme antisemitism such as Holocaust denial.
As we discussed on the phone before, I would really urge you to use Facebook’s search features when making a complaint, rather than scrolling down the person’s timeline. The screenshots below show the process – put an antisemitism-related
term into the search bar, hit enter, then select “choose a source” under “POSTS FROM”, and select the name of the person you are complaining about. On a phone, you can go to someone’s profile, hit the three dots on the right, and select “search profile”.
This enables you to find clearer-cut evidence about the person you are complaining about, which ensures speedier and better action.
Likewise, if you focus on clear cut cases, this will reduce bogging down of our systems and staff time, a huge amount of which has gone into processing emails that you send."
However, this did not result in an improvement in the quality of the complaints
submitted by this individual or the supporting evidence he provides.
In October 2019, an audit of the number of emails the complainant had sent was
conducted, and was referenced as part of the letter sent to them that month:
"We have done a brief audit of your recent complaints to us between the 7th October and 16th October. During that period, you have emailed us a total of 92 times. 55 of the emails sent by you were following us having already told you that your complaints had been logged and were being dealt with. We responded to you 44 times in that period."
In total, the Party has received 2,083 emails from this complainant. His emails have resulted in 451 complaints being logged, comprising 22.2% of all antisemitism cases the Party has logged since spring 2018.
The disparity between the number of emails this complainant sends and the number of complaints logged is due to duplicate complaints, complaints about people who are not Labour members and the responses the complainant sends to GLU’s replies to their complaints. Duplication of complaints result in a great deal of staff time being misspent, the time spent checking if an individual has been complained about before is much the same as logging a completely new complaint.
The complainant has been advised of this, but frequently complains about individuals numerous times. For example, he complained about Maureen Anne Fitzsimmons 29 times. These complaints continue to be made, with clear frustration from the complainant, despite the party being clear and consistent that we cannot give updates on cases to third party complainants. Once a third party complainant has received feedback that their case has been logged they will not receive any more information about the progress of the case. The complainant has been told this a multitude of times yet still continues to repeat complaints they feel are not being dealt with properly.
The volume of this complainant’s emails, and the amount of the time it takes to
identify the individuals in their complaints, results in a disproportionate amount of
staff time being spent on poor quality complaints that frequently result in no action
being taken because the individuals were not members or were unverifiable. Staff
time is then spent continuing to reply to repeat complaints instead of dealing with
new complaints from other complainants. Staff subsequently had to inform the
complainant that they would not be able to reply to each of his emails and repeat
complaints because of the pressure this places on staff time, resulting in a diversion of GLU resources, but that they would continue to log and investigate each of his new complaints and any new evidence he provides in relation to ongoing cases.
6.8.5. Conclusions
Currently, half of all antisemitism complaints the Labour Party receives come from
one individual, who is trawling social media for evidence. This illustrates how the
development of the antisemitism issue in Labour is so integrally related to social
media, and the ability to document people’s views in ways that simply were not possible, or understood, a few years ago.
It also underlines the challenge in assigning appropriate staffing to this issue. If this complainant had not started submitting complaints in late 2018, then the number of complaints received in 2019 would have halved. If another complainant starts doing this, the number of complaints could again double.
Above all, the manner in which the Party has addressed this complainant complaints, and handled this individual as a complainant, demonstrates the Party’s sincere commitment to addressing all complaints, and staff’s absolute clarity that there is no place for antisemitism in the Labour Party. In 2017 GLU seem to have dismissed well-evidenced complaints from LAAS as “spam”, without any particularly good cause, and simply not processed them. Throughout 2019, by contrast, the GLU team has invested considerable resources in not just processing, but also further investigating, complaints from an individual who is highly abusive towards Party staff and Party members and submits large numbers of poorly formatted and poorly evidenced complaints.
The Party’s approach to this issue directly contradicts any suggestion that the Party is not treating complaints of antisemitism seriously
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 1 second ago
But to sit there and say the Tory’s are solely to blame for our high deaths is incredibly short sighted mate.
=======
It would be Don, but I haven't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it seems a lot of labour supporters on here are point scoring and saying just that mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you can post anyone saying the Tories are solely responsible fair enough but Ive not seen it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sandy being one of them. Don’t even get me started on that c** Sizzle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say they were solely responsible, but they are hugely responsible, and you cannot deny that Don. They have lied continually, and handled it as bad as it gets. They ain't getting a free pass.
The tracking app they're going to push on everyone is very much an indication of a facist state. DO NOT install it.
Even if you're thinking 'I don't want to but it's the best thing to do to sop the virus' it relies on individuals self-reporting. There's no way I'd trust even half of people to update it in a timely, accurate manner.
If you're thinking 'but I don't have anything to hide' you should be aware that the data they gather will be there for your lifetime, over multiple governments. You might not have an issue now, but you can't guarantee that how you live your life, and how everyone you know lives, will always be in alignment with the ideals of the ruling party. And they will know who you socialise with, when and where, where you shop, when you get up and when you go to bed.. everything.
The app is just a sticking plaster to get everyone back to work while it probably isn't safe. The solution is proper testing, and eventually a vaccine.
Look into Faculty, the company behind this app, and make your own mind up. You couldn't make me install it.
The tracking app they're going to push on everyone is very much an indication of a facist state. DO NOT install it.
=======
Haveva look at who's developing it and their connection to Cummings.
Kerching!
Ha missed your last sentence Bales! Yeah it's pretty damning.
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
I think people need to look at the cold hard facts before shoving the blame game constantly with political agendas. Let’s be honest, it’s all biased political bukls** on here. Labour would be doing a much better job blah blah blah. The facts are we are country with a population of over 65 mil and the size of roughy 150,000 sqm. Take France for instance, which has a very similar population , but has the size is over 500,000 sqm making it almost 5x that of the U.K.. The rates in death were always going to be very high here regardless of the Tories. When are people going to get this in their stupid heads ? Instead of spouting political rubbish on here, incredible
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The rates of death are only high in the UK because of the Govt's half hearted lockdown attempt not to mention BoJo's whole attitude to the virus (herd immunity and shaking hands with Corona patients). Then the sly b@stards hide behind scientists whenever questioned.
Surprised you cannot see that Don seeing as you like to call out leaders for their failings(Obviously I mean Levy and you have like the way I brought him into the convo LOL).
comment by Bales (U22081)
posted 10 minutes ago
The tracking app they're going to push on everyone is very much an indication of a facist state. DO NOT install it.
Even if you're thinking 'I don't want to but it's the best thing to do to sop the virus' it relies on individuals self-reporting. There's no way I'd trust even half of people to update it in a timely, accurate manner.
If you're thinking 'but I don't have anything to hide' you should be aware that the data they gather will be there for your lifetime, over multiple governments. You might not have an issue now, but you can't guarantee that how you live your life, and how everyone you know lives, will always be in alignment with the ideals of the ruling party. And they will know who you socialise with, when and where, where you shop, when you get up and when you go to bed.. everything.
The app is just a sticking plaster to get everyone back to work while it probably isn't safe. The solution is proper testing, and eventually a vaccine.
Look into Faculty, the company behind this app, and make your own mind up. You couldn't make me install it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I won't be installing it. Proper Testing needs to just take place.
Every other nation happy to roll with the google/Apple variant - oh no we just had to be shifty and develop our own malevolent version.
Yeah almost forgot the Chinese - sure they hold every citizens face on a national database anyway
Sign in if you want to comment
Are we heading towards a facist state?
Page 8 of 10
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
posted on 6/5/20
That's South Korea which is next door to China btw
posted on 6/5/20
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think people need to look at the cold hard facts before shoving the blame game constantly with political agendas. Let’s be honest, it’s all biased political bukls** on here. Labour would be doing a much better job blah blah blah. The facts are we are country with a population of over 65 mil and the size of roughy 150,000 sqm. Take France for instance, which has a very similar population , but has the size is over 500,000 sqm making it almost 5x that of the U.K.. The rates in death were always going to be very high here regardless of the Tories. When are people going to get this in their stupid heads ? Instead of spouting political rubbish on here, incredible
----------------------------------------------------------------------
South Korea has a similar population density so how does that work.
Fact is as the 6th wealthiest nation we have the 2nd highest death rate. All poorly performing countries in this regard (Brazil, UK and USA) have right wing Governments. Could be coincedence I guess.
To say 58,000 deaths in two months was always going to happen seems incredibly remiss.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
South Korea don’t get anywhere near the same tourists as this country gets dude. We get over 36 million visitors a year and are in the top 10 of most visited countries in the planet. London is one of the most visited cities on earth. All the different people from
Different countries coming over here and spreading it before we knew of it. Add to that, the population of this country and how small we are in comparison to other countries with similar populations, it was always going to spell disaster. I think people really need to lay off with their political bulls** point scoring on here.
posted on 6/5/20
That's fine Don but we're also an island nation. Sounds like you think the borders should have shut earlier tbh.
Ultimately though youre literally suggesting that Government has had no control over death rates which I just cant agree with.
Face it, theyve lied loads and done a sh!t job. It's okay to admit that.
posted on 6/5/20
To say 58,000 deaths in two months was always going to happen seems incredibly remiss.
When did the UK figure jump to 58k?
posted on 6/5/20
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 3 minutes ago
That's fine Don but we're also an island nation. Sounds like you think the borders should have shut earlier tbh.
Ultimately though youre literally suggesting that Government has had no control over death rates which I just cant agree with.
Face it, theyve lied loads and done a sh!t job. It's okay to admit that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not saying they are completely exempt from mistakes. But to sit there and say the Tory’s are solely to blame for our high deaths is incredibly short sighted mate. You honestly believe labour would of done any better ? Mistakes have been made, we know this, but like my reasonings above, I honestly don’t think we could of controlled this any better.
posted on 6/5/20
606 on Covid;
"NZ has done a much better job of handling corona virus than us"
"Yeah but they have a lower population"
"Germany has a bigger population and a much lower death toll"
"Yeah but they have a lower population density"
"South Korea has a similar population, similar density, is next to China, Covid hit 10 days before the UK and it has 1% of the death toll"
"STOP POLITICISING IT"
No offence. I just find it funny.
posted on 6/5/20
But to sit there and say the Tory’s are solely to blame for our high deaths is incredibly short sighted mate.
=======
It would be Don, but I haven't.
posted on 6/5/20
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 1 second ago
But to sit there and say the Tory’s are solely to blame for our high deaths is incredibly short sighted mate.
=======
It would be Don, but I haven't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it seems a lot of labour supporters on here are point scoring and saying just that mate
posted on 6/5/20
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 1 second ago
But to sit there and say the Tory’s are solely to blame for our high deaths is incredibly short sighted mate.
=======
It would be Don, but I haven't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it seems a lot of labour supporters on here are point scoring and saying just that mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you can post anyone saying the Tories are solely responsible fair enough but Ive not seen it.
posted on 6/5/20
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 1 second ago
But to sit there and say the Tory’s are solely to blame for our high deaths is incredibly short sighted mate.
=======
It would be Don, but I haven't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it seems a lot of labour supporters on here are point scoring and saying just that mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you can post anyone saying the Tories are solely responsible fair enough but Ive not seen it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sandy being one of them. Don’t even get me started on that c** Sizzle
posted on 6/5/20
At the end if the day this Government said 20k deaths would be doing a "good" job. That's their own words.
What kind of job is more than double that then?
Genuine question.
posted on 6/5/20
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I... (U6374)
posted 28 minutes ago
The rest is absolute flannel and does literally nothing to abate my point that Corbyn is quite obviously not anti semitic and neither was the party.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah like i said, blinkered and lacking objectivity.
Your statement is far from proven & Labours own internal investigation (leaked) raises all manner of issues about how the whole thing has been dealt with as do the leaked minutes of their disciplinary group.
If these accusations were towards the Tories you would not be calling them whiter than white as you are with JC & Labour, and i think you know that.
posted on 6/5/20
It's amazing that you can say that and your last sentence is simply an unsubstanciated guess based on a lack of objectivity amusingly. Please stop passing off your opinion as fact but what's clear is that you havent actually managed to grasp the issue.
That being, is Corbyn and indeed the Labour party anti semitic?
The fact you havent unserstood that and go down the route of whataboutery shows you have no business commenting.
posted on 6/5/20
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I... (U6374)
posted 18 minutes ago
At the end if the day this Government said 20k deaths would be doing a "good" job. That's their own words.
What kind of job is more than double that then?
Genuine question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well not quite:
“If we can keep deaths below 20,000 we will have done very well in this epidemic.”
Prof Stephen Powis, National Medical Director of NHS
posted on 6/5/20
Jenrick doing the daily briefing today. Soudns more like the budget, than talking about all the deaths, other 30,000 now. Hardly a mention, and then he finished off talking about VE day. Honestly who gives a monkeys about that, it was 75 years ago. Talk about deflecting from the Coronavirus.
posted on 6/5/20
This is from the report which Im sure youve read
*Names redacted*
6.8.4. Abuse from complainants
In 2019, half of all antisemitism complaints, and a third of all antisemitism cases, came from one individual.
This person’s complaints are typically poorly evidenced and submitted in a format that hinders investigation. This individual repeatedly emails about the same cases, cluttering the Complaints inbox and taking staff time, as staff always have to check whether a case already exists or not, and whether or not all the evidence the complainant is providing has already been logged.
A large proportion of the people this individual complains about are either not Party members or are already in the disciplinary process, something the complainant has been told repeatedly.
The complainant is often rude and abusive in their replies to staff responding to his complaints. The Party is also aware that the complainant uses similar language towards people, including Labour members, on social media.
As a good employer and the Party of workers’ rights, the Labour Party operates a
“Dignity at Work” policy which maintains that all staff must be able to carry out their work without experiencing abuse or harassment. This same complainant regularly emails targeting one staff member in GLU and making unfounded and offensive allegations about this staff member’s character.
This not only has an impact on this staff member’s working environment, but can also have an impact on the wider team, who regularly read such comments about their colleague and feel anxious that this individual may send emails making similar comments about them and other staff in the team in future.
However, GLU staff have nevertheless invested considerable resources in ensuring that all this complainant’s complaints are logged and investigated. Staff consider all complaints of antisemitism that have been raised with the party, even when the complainant is not a Party member or uses abusive language themselves.
6.8.4.i. Quality of complaints
The quality of the complaints submitted by this same individual - almost always screenshots of streams of Facebook posts, without identifying which comments are being complained about and why - are often poor quality.
The complainant often has no knowledge or evidence that the individual is a party
member and rarely provides any evidence pertaining to their location, details that are essential for identifying a member. When compared to complaints submitted by others, this person’s complaints are sparse in detail, and result in staff spending much longer trying to identify individuals as Labour members than normal.
In addition, this complainant appears to have a poor understanding of antisemitism, and what kinds of conduct the party can act on. For example, they regularly submit complaints about people sharing Jewish-related articles, with the comment “They’re not Jewish”. However, it is not antisemitic to, for example, simply share a Guardian letter in which Jewish people express support for Corbyn, regardless of whether one is Jewish or not.
In addition, the complainant does not use search features on social media, and instead scrolls down to periods of time he has identified as involving large amounts of discussion about antisemitism, most notably autumn 2018 during the IHRA controversy. This results in extensive screenshots of, for example, members simply supporting the Code of Conduct proposed, but not making any antisemitic comments.
Many of the suspensions and NOIs which have been imposed on individuals following complaints from this complainant have actually been a consequence of the additional social media searches GLU staff have conducted, which have revealed much more serious evidence of antisemitism than that submitted. This demonstrates the additional investigatory work that is often required by staff following complaints, and the importance of systematic social media searches by staff on all complaints the party receives, rather than only reviewing the evidence provided by complainants.
In autumn 2019, a staff member had a long conversation with this complainant,
lasting more than forty-five minutes, in which they attempted to assure them that their complaints were all being investigated, and urged them to comply with requests to submit complaints in the required format. The staff member also explained that many of the screenshots they submitted did not constitute a breach of the rules, and recommended that they should instead use search terms that related to antisemitic conduct, and focus on clear-cut cases.
In early February 2020 the same staff member reiterated:
"in a great many of your cases, the core case actually results from extra research – additional searches on their Facebook profiles – conducted by me and our team here. In some cases, for example, you have submitted someone with screenshots of them sharing a few articles discussing the issue of antisemitism in Labour, including from the Guardian; but our searches have uncovered extreme antisemitism such as Holocaust denial.
As we discussed on the phone before, I would really urge you to use Facebook’s search features when making a complaint, rather than scrolling down the person’s timeline. The screenshots below show the process – put an antisemitism-related
term into the search bar, hit enter, then select “choose a source” under “POSTS FROM”, and select the name of the person you are complaining about. On a phone, you can go to someone’s profile, hit the three dots on the right, and select “search profile”.
This enables you to find clearer-cut evidence about the person you are complaining about, which ensures speedier and better action.
Likewise, if you focus on clear cut cases, this will reduce bogging down of our systems and staff time, a huge amount of which has gone into processing emails that you send."
However, this did not result in an improvement in the quality of the complaints
submitted by this individual or the supporting evidence he provides.
In October 2019, an audit of the number of emails the complainant had sent was
conducted, and was referenced as part of the letter sent to them that month:
"We have done a brief audit of your recent complaints to us between the 7th October and 16th October. During that period, you have emailed us a total of 92 times. 55 of the emails sent by you were following us having already told you that your complaints had been logged and were being dealt with. We responded to you 44 times in that period."
In total, the Party has received 2,083 emails from this complainant. His emails have resulted in 451 complaints being logged, comprising 22.2% of all antisemitism cases the Party has logged since spring 2018.
The disparity between the number of emails this complainant sends and the number of complaints logged is due to duplicate complaints, complaints about people who are not Labour members and the responses the complainant sends to GLU’s replies to their complaints. Duplication of complaints result in a great deal of staff time being misspent, the time spent checking if an individual has been complained about before is much the same as logging a completely new complaint.
The complainant has been advised of this, but frequently complains about individuals numerous times. For example, he complained about Maureen Anne Fitzsimmons 29 times. These complaints continue to be made, with clear frustration from the complainant, despite the party being clear and consistent that we cannot give updates on cases to third party complainants. Once a third party complainant has received feedback that their case has been logged they will not receive any more information about the progress of the case. The complainant has been told this a multitude of times yet still continues to repeat complaints they feel are not being dealt with properly.
The volume of this complainant’s emails, and the amount of the time it takes to
identify the individuals in their complaints, results in a disproportionate amount of
staff time being spent on poor quality complaints that frequently result in no action
being taken because the individuals were not members or were unverifiable. Staff
time is then spent continuing to reply to repeat complaints instead of dealing with
new complaints from other complainants. Staff subsequently had to inform the
complainant that they would not be able to reply to each of his emails and repeat
complaints because of the pressure this places on staff time, resulting in a diversion of GLU resources, but that they would continue to log and investigate each of his new complaints and any new evidence he provides in relation to ongoing cases.
6.8.5. Conclusions
Currently, half of all antisemitism complaints the Labour Party receives come from
one individual, who is trawling social media for evidence. This illustrates how the
development of the antisemitism issue in Labour is so integrally related to social
media, and the ability to document people’s views in ways that simply were not possible, or understood, a few years ago.
It also underlines the challenge in assigning appropriate staffing to this issue. If this complainant had not started submitting complaints in late 2018, then the number of complaints received in 2019 would have halved. If another complainant starts doing this, the number of complaints could again double.
Above all, the manner in which the Party has addressed this complainant complaints, and handled this individual as a complainant, demonstrates the Party’s sincere commitment to addressing all complaints, and staff’s absolute clarity that there is no place for antisemitism in the Labour Party. In 2017 GLU seem to have dismissed well-evidenced complaints from LAAS as “spam”, without any particularly good cause, and simply not processed them. Throughout 2019, by contrast, the GLU team has invested considerable resources in not just processing, but also further investigating, complaints from an individual who is highly abusive towards Party staff and Party members and submits large numbers of poorly formatted and poorly evidenced complaints.
The Party’s approach to this issue directly contradicts any suggestion that the Party is not treating complaints of antisemitism seriously
posted on 6/5/20
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 1 second ago
But to sit there and say the Tory’s are solely to blame for our high deaths is incredibly short sighted mate.
=======
It would be Don, but I haven't.
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Well it seems a lot of labour supporters on here are point scoring and saying just that mate
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If you can post anyone saying the Tories are solely responsible fair enough but Ive not seen it.
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Sandy being one of them. Don’t even get me started on that c** Sizzle
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I didn't say they were solely responsible, but they are hugely responsible, and you cannot deny that Don. They have lied continually, and handled it as bad as it gets. They ain't getting a free pass.
posted on 6/5/20
The tracking app they're going to push on everyone is very much an indication of a facist state. DO NOT install it.
Even if you're thinking 'I don't want to but it's the best thing to do to sop the virus' it relies on individuals self-reporting. There's no way I'd trust even half of people to update it in a timely, accurate manner.
If you're thinking 'but I don't have anything to hide' you should be aware that the data they gather will be there for your lifetime, over multiple governments. You might not have an issue now, but you can't guarantee that how you live your life, and how everyone you know lives, will always be in alignment with the ideals of the ruling party. And they will know who you socialise with, when and where, where you shop, when you get up and when you go to bed.. everything.
The app is just a sticking plaster to get everyone back to work while it probably isn't safe. The solution is proper testing, and eventually a vaccine.
Look into Faculty, the company behind this app, and make your own mind up. You couldn't make me install it.
posted on 6/5/20
The tracking app they're going to push on everyone is very much an indication of a facist state. DO NOT install it.
=======
Haveva look at who's developing it and their connection to Cummings.
Kerching!
posted on 6/5/20
Ha missed your last sentence Bales! Yeah it's pretty damning.
posted on 6/5/20
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
I think people need to look at the cold hard facts before shoving the blame game constantly with political agendas. Let’s be honest, it’s all biased political bukls** on here. Labour would be doing a much better job blah blah blah. The facts are we are country with a population of over 65 mil and the size of roughy 150,000 sqm. Take France for instance, which has a very similar population , but has the size is over 500,000 sqm making it almost 5x that of the U.K.. The rates in death were always going to be very high here regardless of the Tories. When are people going to get this in their stupid heads ? Instead of spouting political rubbish on here, incredible
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The rates of death are only high in the UK because of the Govt's half hearted lockdown attempt not to mention BoJo's whole attitude to the virus (herd immunity and shaking hands with Corona patients). Then the sly b@stards hide behind scientists whenever questioned.
Surprised you cannot see that Don seeing as you like to call out leaders for their failings(Obviously I mean Levy and you have like the way I brought him into the convo LOL).
posted on 6/5/20
comment by Bales (U22081)
posted 10 minutes ago
The tracking app they're going to push on everyone is very much an indication of a facist state. DO NOT install it.
Even if you're thinking 'I don't want to but it's the best thing to do to sop the virus' it relies on individuals self-reporting. There's no way I'd trust even half of people to update it in a timely, accurate manner.
If you're thinking 'but I don't have anything to hide' you should be aware that the data they gather will be there for your lifetime, over multiple governments. You might not have an issue now, but you can't guarantee that how you live your life, and how everyone you know lives, will always be in alignment with the ideals of the ruling party. And they will know who you socialise with, when and where, where you shop, when you get up and when you go to bed.. everything.
The app is just a sticking plaster to get everyone back to work while it probably isn't safe. The solution is proper testing, and eventually a vaccine.
Look into Faculty, the company behind this app, and make your own mind up. You couldn't make me install it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I won't be installing it. Proper Testing needs to just take place.
posted on 6/5/20
Every other nation happy to roll with the google/Apple variant - oh no we just had to be shifty and develop our own malevolent version.
posted on 6/5/20
Except China
posted on 6/5/20
Yeah almost forgot the Chinese - sure they hold every citizens face on a national database anyway
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