comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 19 seconds ago
Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
I don't think it's hypocritical.
Ole's history with United - not just playing, but coaching as well - means that he has a different approach to the role than some of the big managerial names out there, particularly around long term planning and youth development.
Obviously it's a results business and that is primarily what he's judged on, but the prospects of the squad for the next five years and the asset value of the players are also important.
Often it's hard to gauge those things from the outside but when you have an ex player and coach like Ole, you can be reasonably certain that those things are something he will be working on, as well as the here and now.
That is reassuring for fans (some) and a plus point in his favour.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably why there's a case for a proper DOF or even someone like Ole overseeing the whole 'United Way' in the background, whilst still wanting a current top level tactician/manager for the first team duties.
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 5 minutes ago
I think most people are the same. And I think the club probably are too. If Ole hadn’t played for us he wouldn’t ever have become Manchester United manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it was a bad appointment in the interim as it got the fans on board straight away. I think a lot of us got carried away at his start and wanted him to get the job. However, if the club did have a grand plan in place then they should have continued with that no matter what the interim did. Seeing that they didn't suggests to me they didn't.
Don't get me wrong Ole has done OK in my eyes and may go on to get better but I'm not convinced.
comment by Mike (U1170)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 19 seconds ago
Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
I don't think it's hypocritical.
Ole's history with United - not just playing, but coaching as well - means that he has a different approach to the role than some of the big managerial names out there, particularly around long term planning and youth development.
Obviously it's a results business and that is primarily what he's judged on, but the prospects of the squad for the next five years and the asset value of the players are also important.
Often it's hard to gauge those things from the outside but when you have an ex player and coach like Ole, you can be reasonably certain that those things are something he will be working on, as well as the here and now.
That is reassuring for fans (some) and a plus point in his favour.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably why there's a case for a proper DOF or even someone like Ole overseeing the whole 'United Way' in the background, whilst still wanting a current top level tactician/manager for the first team duties.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
I don't think it's hypocritical.
Ole's history with United - not just playing, but coaching as well - means that he has a different approach to the role than some of the big managerial names out there, particularly around long term planning and youth development.
Obviously it's a results business and that is primarily what he's judged on, but the prospects of the squad for the next five years and the asset value of the players are also important.
Often it's hard to gauge those things from the outside but when you have an ex player and coach like Ole, you can be reasonably certain that those things are something he will be working on, as well as the here and now.
That is reassuring for fans (some) and a plus point in his favour.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do think Ole has the best interests of the club at heart but, in many ways, could that be making his role as manager even harder? He's probably trying to get involved with everything instead of focussing primarily on the first team.
That does go back to structure though and it could be an unfair environment he's in to truly thrive as a manager.
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 17 minutes ago
Why can’t we judge him over the nearly two years of his management of Manchester United?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well you can. As long as you accept that he had a pretty substantial job to take on. The squad was a mess and needed some serious work. Each to their own, but I am judging him (on higher standards than before) from the international break, as he has had time to reshape the squad and get some of his own players in and also to get the squad fit having not had a pre-season.
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 16 minutes ago
And when you then look at the rest of his managerial career it becomes abundantly clear that he’s not good enough to be managing the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are just stating opinion as fact though.
He did the double over City, got plenty of points of the other rivals and has proven himself to be more than capable in Europe, beating some genuine quality.
For you, that might not be enough to think he's good enough to manage the club... Others will have a differing view.
Diafol, I’ve no doubt that’s the case. And it shows how poorly run we are. That we are poorly run at the top is an inhibiting factor for the managers we’ve had. However, that’s often been used as an argument for giving the managers more time than they actually should have been given. The very fact these managers were even given the job in the first place, let alone left in the job for as long as they have been, is just another example of their incompetence where footballing strategy is concerned.
Unfortunately this problem will likely persist for whoever manages the club. But there’s a point that Rob makes that rings true, until we find someone capable of managing the club, despite these inhibiting factors, we have to keep rolling the dice.
If Ole hadn’t played for us he wouldn’t ever have become Manchester United manager.
++
which WAS the reason he was appointed.
It was a different direction the Club took from the ones before that failed.
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - A Beekers Dozen (U2958)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 16 minutes ago
And when you then look at the rest of his managerial career it becomes abundantly clear that he’s not good enough to be managing the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are just stating opinion as fact though.
He did the double over City, got plenty of points of the other rivals and has proven himself to be more than capable in Europe, beating some genuine quality.
For you, that might not be enough to think he's good enough to manage the club... Others will have a differing view.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s fine, but he’s managing Manchester United not Everton.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 29 minutes ago
Elvis. Yes, that fair. Apart from the Arsenal game we have looked better and fitter so seeing where we are by Xmas would be fair I think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, that is where I am at. To be fair, I have always said that I would expect more from him after he had this summer's transfer window.
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - A Beekers Dozen (U2958)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 16 minutes ago
And when you then look at the rest of his managerial career it becomes abundantly clear that he’s not good enough to be managing the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are just stating opinion as fact though.
He did the double over City, got plenty of points of the other rivals and has proven himself to be more than capable in Europe, beating some genuine quality.
For you, that might not be enough to think he's good enough to manage the club... Others will have a differing view.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s fine, but he’s managing Manchester United not Everton.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, we are Man Utd... a club in relative disarray and have been for 7 years.
But if you think that a 5th manager in 7 years is what will turn it all around... I'm not hear to convince you otherwise.
I didn’t say that will turn it all around, I’m saying Ole Gunnar Solskjaer isn’t good enough to be Manchester United manager.
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
Why can’t we judge him over the nearly two years of his management of Manchester United?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can, first full season, third in the league, two cup semi finals; Critics then say, ah but weak league etc. But those results are facts, spin it how you like.
This season is odd,( West Brom 7 Liverpool 2) no home advantage with no crowd, poor in the league, super in Europe against clubs where we feared defeat.
We are fitter now, Arsenal set up better than we did, Bruno off form. That's one game.
He should get until year end at least, and then review, that would not only be fair but sensible.
I'm tired of reading Ole can't do this or that when we don't know. Let's find out.
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
I think that we now have a strong squad. I will discount the first few games of the season, as we were clearly off the pace due to a lack of preseason. However, since the international break, the team has looked fitter and we have pretty much a full strength squad. So now is the time to judge him. He needs to deliver in the coming months, otherwise questions will be asked and rightly so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The season 'began' with the Newcastle game as he said himself. Since then nothing new. We can perform against teams that give us space, and struggle against teams that don't. Someone as stubborn as him isn't going to magically improve in this area.
We will have clearly dropped standards if we give an unproven manager too long to prove that he isn't adequate.
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
I think that we now have a strong squad. I will discount the first few games of the season, as we were clearly off the pace due to a lack of preseason. However, since the international break, the team has looked fitter and we have pretty much a full strength squad. So now is the time to judge him. He needs to deliver in the coming months, otherwise questions will be asked and rightly so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The season 'began' with the Newcastle game as he said himself. Since then nothing new. We can perform against teams that give us space, and struggle against teams that don't. Someone as stubborn as him isn't going to magically improve in this area.
We will have clearly dropped standards if we give an unproven manager too long to prove that he isn't adequate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes we would have. But we aren't
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
He should get until year end at least, and then review, that would not only be fair but sensible.
I'm tired of reading Ole can't do this or that when we don't know. Let's find out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It all comes down to results; if they are not good enough, he'll go earlier.
As far as what he can do, we've found out a lot already. It's nearly two years he's been here.
Sign in if you want to comment
Ole
Page 7 of 7
6 | 7
posted on 4/11/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 19 seconds ago
Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
I don't think it's hypocritical.
Ole's history with United - not just playing, but coaching as well - means that he has a different approach to the role than some of the big managerial names out there, particularly around long term planning and youth development.
Obviously it's a results business and that is primarily what he's judged on, but the prospects of the squad for the next five years and the asset value of the players are also important.
Often it's hard to gauge those things from the outside but when you have an ex player and coach like Ole, you can be reasonably certain that those things are something he will be working on, as well as the here and now.
That is reassuring for fans (some) and a plus point in his favour.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably why there's a case for a proper DOF or even someone like Ole overseeing the whole 'United Way' in the background, whilst still wanting a current top level tactician/manager for the first team duties.
posted on 4/11/20
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 5 minutes ago
I think most people are the same. And I think the club probably are too. If Ole hadn’t played for us he wouldn’t ever have become Manchester United manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it was a bad appointment in the interim as it got the fans on board straight away. I think a lot of us got carried away at his start and wanted him to get the job. However, if the club did have a grand plan in place then they should have continued with that no matter what the interim did. Seeing that they didn't suggests to me they didn't.
Don't get me wrong Ole has done OK in my eyes and may go on to get better but I'm not convinced.
posted on 4/11/20
comment by Mike (U1170)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 19 seconds ago
Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
I don't think it's hypocritical.
Ole's history with United - not just playing, but coaching as well - means that he has a different approach to the role than some of the big managerial names out there, particularly around long term planning and youth development.
Obviously it's a results business and that is primarily what he's judged on, but the prospects of the squad for the next five years and the asset value of the players are also important.
Often it's hard to gauge those things from the outside but when you have an ex player and coach like Ole, you can be reasonably certain that those things are something he will be working on, as well as the here and now.
That is reassuring for fans (some) and a plus point in his favour.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably why there's a case for a proper DOF or even someone like Ole overseeing the whole 'United Way' in the background, whilst still wanting a current top level tactician/manager for the first team duties.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point
posted on 4/11/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
I don't think it's hypocritical.
Ole's history with United - not just playing, but coaching as well - means that he has a different approach to the role than some of the big managerial names out there, particularly around long term planning and youth development.
Obviously it's a results business and that is primarily what he's judged on, but the prospects of the squad for the next five years and the asset value of the players are also important.
Often it's hard to gauge those things from the outside but when you have an ex player and coach like Ole, you can be reasonably certain that those things are something he will be working on, as well as the here and now.
That is reassuring for fans (some) and a plus point in his favour.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do think Ole has the best interests of the club at heart but, in many ways, could that be making his role as manager even harder? He's probably trying to get involved with everything instead of focussing primarily on the first team.
That does go back to structure though and it could be an unfair environment he's in to truly thrive as a manager.
posted on 4/11/20
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 17 minutes ago
Why can’t we judge him over the nearly two years of his management of Manchester United?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well you can. As long as you accept that he had a pretty substantial job to take on. The squad was a mess and needed some serious work. Each to their own, but I am judging him (on higher standards than before) from the international break, as he has had time to reshape the squad and get some of his own players in and also to get the squad fit having not had a pre-season.
posted on 4/11/20
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 16 minutes ago
And when you then look at the rest of his managerial career it becomes abundantly clear that he’s not good enough to be managing the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are just stating opinion as fact though.
He did the double over City, got plenty of points of the other rivals and has proven himself to be more than capable in Europe, beating some genuine quality.
For you, that might not be enough to think he's good enough to manage the club... Others will have a differing view.
posted on 4/11/20
Diafol, I’ve no doubt that’s the case. And it shows how poorly run we are. That we are poorly run at the top is an inhibiting factor for the managers we’ve had. However, that’s often been used as an argument for giving the managers more time than they actually should have been given. The very fact these managers were even given the job in the first place, let alone left in the job for as long as they have been, is just another example of their incompetence where footballing strategy is concerned.
Unfortunately this problem will likely persist for whoever manages the club. But there’s a point that Rob makes that rings true, until we find someone capable of managing the club, despite these inhibiting factors, we have to keep rolling the dice.
posted on 4/11/20
If Ole hadn’t played for us he wouldn’t ever have become Manchester United manager.
++
which WAS the reason he was appointed.
It was a different direction the Club took from the ones before that failed.
posted on 4/11/20
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - A Beekers Dozen (U2958)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 16 minutes ago
And when you then look at the rest of his managerial career it becomes abundantly clear that he’s not good enough to be managing the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are just stating opinion as fact though.
He did the double over City, got plenty of points of the other rivals and has proven himself to be more than capable in Europe, beating some genuine quality.
For you, that might not be enough to think he's good enough to manage the club... Others will have a differing view.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s fine, but he’s managing Manchester United not Everton.
posted on 4/11/20
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 29 minutes ago
Elvis. Yes, that fair. Apart from the Arsenal game we have looked better and fitter so seeing where we are by Xmas would be fair I think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, that is where I am at. To be fair, I have always said that I would expect more from him after he had this summer's transfer window.
posted on 4/11/20
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - A Beekers Dozen (U2958)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 16 minutes ago
And when you then look at the rest of his managerial career it becomes abundantly clear that he’s not good enough to be managing the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are just stating opinion as fact though.
He did the double over City, got plenty of points of the other rivals and has proven himself to be more than capable in Europe, beating some genuine quality.
For you, that might not be enough to think he's good enough to manage the club... Others will have a differing view.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s fine, but he’s managing Manchester United not Everton.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, we are Man Utd... a club in relative disarray and have been for 7 years.
But if you think that a 5th manager in 7 years is what will turn it all around... I'm not hear to convince you otherwise.
posted on 4/11/20
I didn’t say that will turn it all around, I’m saying Ole Gunnar Solskjaer isn’t good enough to be Manchester United manager.
posted on 4/11/20
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
Why can’t we judge him over the nearly two years of his management of Manchester United?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can, first full season, third in the league, two cup semi finals; Critics then say, ah but weak league etc. But those results are facts, spin it how you like.
This season is odd,( West Brom 7 Liverpool 2) no home advantage with no crowd, poor in the league, super in Europe against clubs where we feared defeat.
We are fitter now, Arsenal set up better than we did, Bruno off form. That's one game.
He should get until year end at least, and then review, that would not only be fair but sensible.
I'm tired of reading Ole can't do this or that when we don't know. Let's find out.
posted on 4/11/20
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
I think that we now have a strong squad. I will discount the first few games of the season, as we were clearly off the pace due to a lack of preseason. However, since the international break, the team has looked fitter and we have pretty much a full strength squad. So now is the time to judge him. He needs to deliver in the coming months, otherwise questions will be asked and rightly so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The season 'began' with the Newcastle game as he said himself. Since then nothing new. We can perform against teams that give us space, and struggle against teams that don't. Someone as stubborn as him isn't going to magically improve in this area.
We will have clearly dropped standards if we give an unproven manager too long to prove that he isn't adequate.
posted on 4/11/20
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
I think that we now have a strong squad. I will discount the first few games of the season, as we were clearly off the pace due to a lack of preseason. However, since the international break, the team has looked fitter and we have pretty much a full strength squad. So now is the time to judge him. He needs to deliver in the coming months, otherwise questions will be asked and rightly so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The season 'began' with the Newcastle game as he said himself. Since then nothing new. We can perform against teams that give us space, and struggle against teams that don't. Someone as stubborn as him isn't going to magically improve in this area.
We will have clearly dropped standards if we give an unproven manager too long to prove that he isn't adequate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes we would have. But we aren't
posted on 4/11/20
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
He should get until year end at least, and then review, that would not only be fair but sensible.
I'm tired of reading Ole can't do this or that when we don't know. Let's find out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It all comes down to results; if they are not good enough, he'll go earlier.
As far as what he can do, we've found out a lot already. It's nearly two years he's been here.
Page 7 of 7
6 | 7