Spurs should still have Keith Burkinshaw in charge, in hindsight.
Or even Martin Jol.
Never really got why they sacked him.
PS, Godfather, if you can find any evidence of me being abusive toward Wenger I would love to see it. In fact I called people out many a time when they were being vile or disrespectful. You can want change without being abusive or angry.
What Wenger did for the club from 96-2013 cannot and should not be understated. However, that cannot and should not have given him a free pass for the rest of his career. We were very slow in reacting to the evidence that he couldn't take us forward, and was in fact wasting a great opportunity for the club - not to mention a lot of money.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 13 minutes ago
In hindsight you should never have sacked Wenger, certainly wouldn't be languishing like you have over the last few years.
To do that to your greatest manager too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What evidence is there to suggest that? Wenger started the decline, and we are still hamstrung by many of his bad decisions. All evidence points to the thinking we would be in a similar position with Wenger in charge.
And he is 71. Only an absolutely clueless mug or a Spurs fan would think Wenger should still be in charge - or someone who is both, hence your opinion...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His history v your recent history.
All the evidence you could ask for.
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 13 minutes ago
In hindsight you should never have sacked Wenger, certainly wouldn't be languishing like you have over the last few years.
To do that to your greatest manager too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What evidence is there to suggest that? Wenger started the decline, and we are still hamstrung by many of his bad decisions. All evidence points to the thinking we would be in a similar position with Wenger in charge.
And he is 71. Only an absolutely clueless mug or a Spurs fan would think Wenger should still be in charge - or someone who is both, hence your opinion...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His history v your recent history.
All the evidence you could ask for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our recent history is 5th then 6th, with a 12 point decrease in points, under Wenger. That recent history?
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 13 minutes ago
In hindsight you should never have sacked Wenger, certainly wouldn't be languishing like you have over the last few years.
To do that to your greatest manager too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What evidence is there to suggest that? Wenger started the decline, and we are still hamstrung by many of his bad decisions. All evidence points to the thinking we would be in a similar position with Wenger in charge.
And he is 71. Only an absolutely clueless mug or a Spurs fan would think Wenger should still be in charge - or someone who is both, hence your opinion...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His history v your recent history.
All the evidence you could ask for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our recent history is 5th then 6th, with a 12 point decrease in points, under Wenger. That recent history?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and it's been downhill since.
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 13 minutes ago
In hindsight you should never have sacked Wenger, certainly wouldn't be languishing like you have over the last few years.
To do that to your greatest manager too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What evidence is there to suggest that? Wenger started the decline, and we are still hamstrung by many of his bad decisions. All evidence points to the thinking we would be in a similar position with Wenger in charge.
And he is 71. Only an absolutely clueless mug or a Spurs fan would think Wenger should still be in charge - or someone who is both, hence your opinion...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His history v your recent history.
All the evidence you could ask for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our recent history is 5th then 6th, with a 12 point decrease in points, under Wenger. That recent history?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and it's been downhill since.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, dropping to 5th, then 6th with the lowest point tally since 95 isn't downhill? Thanks for the great insight.
I think Wenger left a couple of years later than he should have done. Although I'm not sure who/what would have stopped the Arsenal decline as it's been a really poor squad for seasons now, dating back to when Wenger was there.
Some issues are still there dating back to Wenger, but recruitment has always been an issue.
comment by The One (U22189)
posted 10 hours, 50 minutes ago
comment by PowerkingHenry27 (U18930)
posted 1 minute ago
His successors have hardly been the standard of manager our fans were calling for , nobody wanted Emery and nobody wanted Arteta as first choices. But Let’s keep wheeling out the old Wenger love and ‘I told you so’ articles tho every time we fail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah.... But basically anyone who said don't underestimate Wengers achievements was probably on the right path right? Wenger out planes were flew when we finshed 2nd. How would a 4th place feel today?
Banners, planes, insults at train stations, swearing at his face. Senile. Old can't get out of my club. Etc
Let's be honest: football fans across the globe think we are getting our just deserts. They are right aren't they
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly the same happened on the United JA606 board.
“Thanks Fergie, time to retire now.”
“He’s senile...”
“He’s too stubborn...”
“He hasn’t kept up with the modern game...”
When you’re waving goodbye to one of the greats of the game, like SAF or Wenger, the grass is just never gonna be greener. You part when you have to, and then you have to expect years of relative mediocrity. We’ve seen it time and again.
The “Well, we should have hired Klopp or Pep, shouldn’t we?” arguments always make me laugh, too. Like it’s that easy.
1. Most top-performing managers are usually unavailable.
2. On the rare occasions when they do become available, they have their pick of the clubs and are going to be, for almost every club whose fans would love to see them signed, unattainable.
Klopp turned United down, ffs. We might have made him the highest paid manager in the world and given him resources to spend that he could only dream of elsewhere, and he walked away.
3. You can go after and actually manage to sign the latest fad manager, and they can crash and burn. We’ve also seen that repeatedly.
“Be careful what you wish for” is indeed the best way to sum these kind of situations up.
“... nobody wanted Emery and nobody wanted Arteta as first choices...”
Which is 100% immaterial. You got Emery, and you got Arteta.
We don’t live in a world in which when a manager is sacked, the club’s fans get to cherry pick his successor, and then force the chosen one to take the reins.
Fergusons last season:
89 points and the title.
Wengers last season
63 points and 6th.
Very comparable situations
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 11 minutes ago
Fergusons last season:
89 points and the title.
Wengers last season
63 points and 6th.
Very comparable situations
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The United JA606 board wanted him out several seasons before he won his last title.
Which makes them look even more ridiculous.
Fergie won the title 5 times in his last 7 seasons. Again, hardly comparable to the situation Arsenal were in under Wenger in his last couple of years.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 minutes ago
Fergie won the title 5 times in his last 7 seasons. Again, hardly comparable to the situation Arsenal were in under Wenger in his last couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said it in my post above though.
Say Wenger was to leave a season or two before he actually did, who would Arsenal have replaced him with, at the time, that you felt would have done more than he could have done?
Emery is hardly a poor coach. Experienced, managed at the top level, that didn't work. Arteta still needs time for me, but he's still got his criticism's which is understandable. So who would be next if Arteta was to go?
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 2 minutes ago
Fergie won the title 5 times in his last 7 seasons. Again, hardly comparable to the situation Arsenal were in under Wenger in his last couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair point, but these things are relative.
How many clubs were outspending Arsenal at the time? Chelsea, City, United certainly and very comfortably. Was he in a position to even try to compete with those three?
Liverpool, Everton, Spurs?
The point remains: nobody could really have expected another attainable manager to come in and make Arsenal contenders again.
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 minutes ago
Fergie won the title 5 times in his last 7 seasons. Again, hardly comparable to the situation Arsenal were in under Wenger in his last couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said it in my post above though.
Say Wenger was to leave a season or two before he actually did, who would Arsenal have replaced him with, at the time, that you felt would have done more than he could have done?
Emery is hardly a poor coach. Experienced, managed at the top level, that didn't work. Arteta still needs time for me, but he's still got his criticism's which is understandable. So who would be next if Arteta was to go?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our situation would have been very different. Champions League for starters. Depending on how early we had changed managers (2013 was the prime time, imo) , the squad would have been very different, and the potential signings we could have made could have been very different.
It isn't just about if we could have found the right manager, there are many circumstances that would have given a new manager a better chance of success.
How many clubs were outspending Arsenal at the time? Chelsea, City, United certainly and very comfortably. Was he in a position to even try to compete with those three?
=========
We were actually outspending Chelsea at the time.
Our situation would have been very different. Champions League for starters. Depending on how early we had changed managers (2013 was the prime time, imo) , the squad would have been very different, and the potential signings we could have made could have been very different.
It isn't just about if we could have found the right manager, there are many circumstances that would have given a new manager a better chance of success.
-----------
I can understand why it wasn't done in 2013/14 tbh. Is it not when we just got the Puma's deal? So basically when we started to have money to spend? It'd have been very unfair to kick out the guy who maintained us in top 4 on a string and sack him as soon as money was available.
Not sacking in 2016 was a mistake though.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 minutes ago
Fergie won the title 5 times in his last 7 seasons. Again, hardly comparable to the situation Arsenal were in under Wenger in his last couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said it in my post above though.
Say Wenger was to leave a season or two before he actually did, who would Arsenal have replaced him with, at the time, that you felt would have done more than he could have done?
Emery is hardly a poor coach. Experienced, managed at the top level, that didn't work. Arteta still needs time for me, but he's still got his criticism's which is understandable. So who would be next if Arteta was to go?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our situation would have been very different. Champions League for starters. Depending on how early we had changed managers (2013 was the prime time, imo) , the squad would have been very different, and the potential signings we could have made could have been very different.
It isn't just about if we could have found the right manager, there are many circumstances that would have given a new manager a better chance of success.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I agree a new manager would have been in a much better situation back in 2013 due to Champions League football and a better squad, but that is all irrelevant if you do not get the right manager in place because it's very easy to get things wrong with the wrong manager choices, as you've seen in the last few years.
Who would have come in that was available in 2013 to replace Wenger that could have changed the way Arsenal were going and make them a consistent Champions League outfit?
comment by The greatest trick Arteta ever pulled was conv... (U10012)
posted 3 seconds ago
Our situation would have been very different. Champions League for starters. Depending on how early we had changed managers (2013 was the prime time, imo) , the squad would have been very different, and the potential signings we could have made could have been very different.
It isn't just about if we could have found the right manager, there are many circumstances that would have given a new manager a better chance of success.
-----------
I can understand why it wasn't done in 2013/14 tbh. Is it not when we just got the Puma's deal? So basically when we started to have money to spend? It'd have been very unfair to kick out the guy who maintained us in top 4 on a string and sack him as soon as money was available.
Not sacking in 2016 was a mistake though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was when our mortgage payments eased and we renegotiated many deals to leave us financially stronger.
Football had moved on since pre-Emirates. Wenger was not in touch with the market as he once was. He also didn't allow help, the big difference between him and Fergie, who was always looking for new ideas.
Sentiment says Wenger deserved a chance to spend the money. But sentiment doesn't hold much weight in football.
Yes I agree a new manager would have been in a much better situation back in 2013 due to Champions League football and a better squad, but that is all irrelevant if you do not get the right manager in place because it's very easy to get things wrong with the wrong manager choices, as you've seen in the last few years.
=========
So we just stay with the same manager forever?
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 5 minutes ago
How many clubs were outspending Arsenal at the time? Chelsea, City, United certainly and very comfortably. Was he in a position to even try to compete with those three?
=========
We were actually outspending Chelsea at the time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you might want to check your figures there.
17/18 you spent £152m, Chelsea spent £260m
16/17 you spent £113m, Chelsea spent £132m
15/16 you spent £26m, Chelsea spent £96m
14/15 you spent £118m, Chelsea spent £137m
All transfermarkt.
Over £200m additional investment over four seasons should be a top new first team player every 12 months.
No you don't, but unfortunately you got stuck in a bad situation where a manager of the calibre you wanted wasn't available in 2013. Why replace Wenger to get somebody who may have done much worse, at the time.
I imagine you thought Emery would have been the correct man to take you forward. He wasn't exactly a poor appointment when he was first announced, but it didn't work out that way.
If a Klopp or Pep was available in 2013, you could point to that time and say that was an error by the club. But they weren't. Any manager at that time that you'd have realistically got would have been a gamble.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by The greatest trick Arteta ever pulled was conv... (U10012)
posted 3 seconds ago
Our situation would have been very different. Champions League for starters. Depending on how early we had changed managers (2013 was the prime time, imo) , the squad would have been very different, and the potential signings we could have made could have been very different.
It isn't just about if we could have found the right manager, there are many circumstances that would have given a new manager a better chance of success.
-----------
I can understand why it wasn't done in 2013/14 tbh. Is it not when we just got the Puma's deal? So basically when we started to have money to spend? It'd have been very unfair to kick out the guy who maintained us in top 4 on a string and sack him as soon as money was available.
Not sacking in 2016 was a mistake though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was when our mortgage payments eased and we renegotiated many deals to leave us financially stronger.
Football had moved on since pre-Emirates. Wenger was not in touch with the market as he once was. He also didn't allow help, the big difference between him and Fergie, who was always looking for new ideas.
Sentiment says Wenger deserved a chance to spend the money. But sentiment doesn't hold much weight in football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not disagreeing with this, but this is a hindsight. It is when he started to spend the money and yet couldn't get it right apart from couples FA cup that it was clear that he lost it. Prior to that, you could argue our squad was missing one or two players, which we couldn't afford to get back to the top.
If a Klopp or Pep was available in 2013, you could point to that time and say that was an error by the club. But they weren't. Any manager at that time that you'd have realistically got would have been a gamble.
====
Not exactly true, is it? Klopp was in contract negotiations with Dortmund, a strong play for him could have got him. Pep was on a year out, a strong play for him would have given him a choice to make. Allegri was considering his future. There were also other managers about at that time. Arsenal were a better prospect than we are now, who knows what would have happened if Wenger had moved earlier.
Plus 2013 could be 2014, or 15 if you wanted to give Wenger a chance with the new money.
Waiting until we were out of the Champions League is clearly hindering us going forward.
Sign in if you want to comment
Be careful what you wish for
Page 3 of 5
posted on 9/4/21
Spurs should still have Keith Burkinshaw in charge, in hindsight.
posted on 9/4/21
Or even Martin Jol.
Never really got why they sacked him.
posted on 9/4/21
PS, Godfather, if you can find any evidence of me being abusive toward Wenger I would love to see it. In fact I called people out many a time when they were being vile or disrespectful. You can want change without being abusive or angry.
What Wenger did for the club from 96-2013 cannot and should not be understated. However, that cannot and should not have given him a free pass for the rest of his career. We were very slow in reacting to the evidence that he couldn't take us forward, and was in fact wasting a great opportunity for the club - not to mention a lot of money.
posted on 9/4/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 13 minutes ago
In hindsight you should never have sacked Wenger, certainly wouldn't be languishing like you have over the last few years.
To do that to your greatest manager too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What evidence is there to suggest that? Wenger started the decline, and we are still hamstrung by many of his bad decisions. All evidence points to the thinking we would be in a similar position with Wenger in charge.
And he is 71. Only an absolutely clueless mug or a Spurs fan would think Wenger should still be in charge - or someone who is both, hence your opinion...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His history v your recent history.
All the evidence you could ask for.
posted on 9/4/21
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 13 minutes ago
In hindsight you should never have sacked Wenger, certainly wouldn't be languishing like you have over the last few years.
To do that to your greatest manager too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What evidence is there to suggest that? Wenger started the decline, and we are still hamstrung by many of his bad decisions. All evidence points to the thinking we would be in a similar position with Wenger in charge.
And he is 71. Only an absolutely clueless mug or a Spurs fan would think Wenger should still be in charge - or someone who is both, hence your opinion...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His history v your recent history.
All the evidence you could ask for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our recent history is 5th then 6th, with a 12 point decrease in points, under Wenger. That recent history?
posted on 9/4/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 13 minutes ago
In hindsight you should never have sacked Wenger, certainly wouldn't be languishing like you have over the last few years.
To do that to your greatest manager too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What evidence is there to suggest that? Wenger started the decline, and we are still hamstrung by many of his bad decisions. All evidence points to the thinking we would be in a similar position with Wenger in charge.
And he is 71. Only an absolutely clueless mug or a Spurs fan would think Wenger should still be in charge - or someone who is both, hence your opinion...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His history v your recent history.
All the evidence you could ask for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our recent history is 5th then 6th, with a 12 point decrease in points, under Wenger. That recent history?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and it's been downhill since.
posted on 9/4/21
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 13 minutes ago
In hindsight you should never have sacked Wenger, certainly wouldn't be languishing like you have over the last few years.
To do that to your greatest manager too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What evidence is there to suggest that? Wenger started the decline, and we are still hamstrung by many of his bad decisions. All evidence points to the thinking we would be in a similar position with Wenger in charge.
And he is 71. Only an absolutely clueless mug or a Spurs fan would think Wenger should still be in charge - or someone who is both, hence your opinion...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His history v your recent history.
All the evidence you could ask for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our recent history is 5th then 6th, with a 12 point decrease in points, under Wenger. That recent history?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and it's been downhill since.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, dropping to 5th, then 6th with the lowest point tally since 95 isn't downhill? Thanks for the great insight.
posted on 9/4/21
I think Wenger left a couple of years later than he should have done. Although I'm not sure who/what would have stopped the Arsenal decline as it's been a really poor squad for seasons now, dating back to when Wenger was there.
Some issues are still there dating back to Wenger, but recruitment has always been an issue.
posted on 9/4/21
comment by The One (U22189)
posted 10 hours, 50 minutes ago
comment by PowerkingHenry27 (U18930)
posted 1 minute ago
His successors have hardly been the standard of manager our fans were calling for , nobody wanted Emery and nobody wanted Arteta as first choices. But Let’s keep wheeling out the old Wenger love and ‘I told you so’ articles tho every time we fail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah.... But basically anyone who said don't underestimate Wengers achievements was probably on the right path right? Wenger out planes were flew when we finshed 2nd. How would a 4th place feel today?
Banners, planes, insults at train stations, swearing at his face. Senile. Old can't get out of my club. Etc
Let's be honest: football fans across the globe think we are getting our just deserts. They are right aren't they
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly the same happened on the United JA606 board.
“Thanks Fergie, time to retire now.”
“He’s senile...”
“He’s too stubborn...”
“He hasn’t kept up with the modern game...”
When you’re waving goodbye to one of the greats of the game, like SAF or Wenger, the grass is just never gonna be greener. You part when you have to, and then you have to expect years of relative mediocrity. We’ve seen it time and again.
The “Well, we should have hired Klopp or Pep, shouldn’t we?” arguments always make me laugh, too. Like it’s that easy.
1. Most top-performing managers are usually unavailable.
2. On the rare occasions when they do become available, they have their pick of the clubs and are going to be, for almost every club whose fans would love to see them signed, unattainable.
Klopp turned United down, ffs. We might have made him the highest paid manager in the world and given him resources to spend that he could only dream of elsewhere, and he walked away.
3. You can go after and actually manage to sign the latest fad manager, and they can crash and burn. We’ve also seen that repeatedly.
“Be careful what you wish for” is indeed the best way to sum these kind of situations up.
posted on 9/4/21
“... nobody wanted Emery and nobody wanted Arteta as first choices...”
Which is 100% immaterial. You got Emery, and you got Arteta.
We don’t live in a world in which when a manager is sacked, the club’s fans get to cherry pick his successor, and then force the chosen one to take the reins.
posted on 9/4/21
Fergusons last season:
89 points and the title.
Wengers last season
63 points and 6th.
Very comparable situations
posted on 9/4/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 11 minutes ago
Fergusons last season:
89 points and the title.
Wengers last season
63 points and 6th.
Very comparable situations
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The United JA606 board wanted him out several seasons before he won his last title.
Which makes them look even more ridiculous.
posted on 9/4/21
Fergie won the title 5 times in his last 7 seasons. Again, hardly comparable to the situation Arsenal were in under Wenger in his last couple of years.
posted on 9/4/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 minutes ago
Fergie won the title 5 times in his last 7 seasons. Again, hardly comparable to the situation Arsenal were in under Wenger in his last couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said it in my post above though.
Say Wenger was to leave a season or two before he actually did, who would Arsenal have replaced him with, at the time, that you felt would have done more than he could have done?
Emery is hardly a poor coach. Experienced, managed at the top level, that didn't work. Arteta still needs time for me, but he's still got his criticism's which is understandable. So who would be next if Arteta was to go?
posted on 9/4/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 2 minutes ago
Fergie won the title 5 times in his last 7 seasons. Again, hardly comparable to the situation Arsenal were in under Wenger in his last couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair point, but these things are relative.
How many clubs were outspending Arsenal at the time? Chelsea, City, United certainly and very comfortably. Was he in a position to even try to compete with those three?
Liverpool, Everton, Spurs?
The point remains: nobody could really have expected another attainable manager to come in and make Arsenal contenders again.
posted on 9/4/21
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 minutes ago
Fergie won the title 5 times in his last 7 seasons. Again, hardly comparable to the situation Arsenal were in under Wenger in his last couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said it in my post above though.
Say Wenger was to leave a season or two before he actually did, who would Arsenal have replaced him with, at the time, that you felt would have done more than he could have done?
Emery is hardly a poor coach. Experienced, managed at the top level, that didn't work. Arteta still needs time for me, but he's still got his criticism's which is understandable. So who would be next if Arteta was to go?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our situation would have been very different. Champions League for starters. Depending on how early we had changed managers (2013 was the prime time, imo) , the squad would have been very different, and the potential signings we could have made could have been very different.
It isn't just about if we could have found the right manager, there are many circumstances that would have given a new manager a better chance of success.
posted on 9/4/21
How many clubs were outspending Arsenal at the time? Chelsea, City, United certainly and very comfortably. Was he in a position to even try to compete with those three?
=========
We were actually outspending Chelsea at the time.
posted on 9/4/21
Our situation would have been very different. Champions League for starters. Depending on how early we had changed managers (2013 was the prime time, imo) , the squad would have been very different, and the potential signings we could have made could have been very different.
It isn't just about if we could have found the right manager, there are many circumstances that would have given a new manager a better chance of success.
-----------
I can understand why it wasn't done in 2013/14 tbh. Is it not when we just got the Puma's deal? So basically when we started to have money to spend? It'd have been very unfair to kick out the guy who maintained us in top 4 on a string and sack him as soon as money was available.
Not sacking in 2016 was a mistake though.
posted on 9/4/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 minutes ago
Fergie won the title 5 times in his last 7 seasons. Again, hardly comparable to the situation Arsenal were in under Wenger in his last couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said it in my post above though.
Say Wenger was to leave a season or two before he actually did, who would Arsenal have replaced him with, at the time, that you felt would have done more than he could have done?
Emery is hardly a poor coach. Experienced, managed at the top level, that didn't work. Arteta still needs time for me, but he's still got his criticism's which is understandable. So who would be next if Arteta was to go?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our situation would have been very different. Champions League for starters. Depending on how early we had changed managers (2013 was the prime time, imo) , the squad would have been very different, and the potential signings we could have made could have been very different.
It isn't just about if we could have found the right manager, there are many circumstances that would have given a new manager a better chance of success.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I agree a new manager would have been in a much better situation back in 2013 due to Champions League football and a better squad, but that is all irrelevant if you do not get the right manager in place because it's very easy to get things wrong with the wrong manager choices, as you've seen in the last few years.
Who would have come in that was available in 2013 to replace Wenger that could have changed the way Arsenal were going and make them a consistent Champions League outfit?
posted on 9/4/21
comment by The greatest trick Arteta ever pulled was conv... (U10012)
posted 3 seconds ago
Our situation would have been very different. Champions League for starters. Depending on how early we had changed managers (2013 was the prime time, imo) , the squad would have been very different, and the potential signings we could have made could have been very different.
It isn't just about if we could have found the right manager, there are many circumstances that would have given a new manager a better chance of success.
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I can understand why it wasn't done in 2013/14 tbh. Is it not when we just got the Puma's deal? So basically when we started to have money to spend? It'd have been very unfair to kick out the guy who maintained us in top 4 on a string and sack him as soon as money was available.
Not sacking in 2016 was a mistake though.
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It was when our mortgage payments eased and we renegotiated many deals to leave us financially stronger.
Football had moved on since pre-Emirates. Wenger was not in touch with the market as he once was. He also didn't allow help, the big difference between him and Fergie, who was always looking for new ideas.
Sentiment says Wenger deserved a chance to spend the money. But sentiment doesn't hold much weight in football.
posted on 9/4/21
Yes I agree a new manager would have been in a much better situation back in 2013 due to Champions League football and a better squad, but that is all irrelevant if you do not get the right manager in place because it's very easy to get things wrong with the wrong manager choices, as you've seen in the last few years.
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So we just stay with the same manager forever?
posted on 9/4/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 5 minutes ago
How many clubs were outspending Arsenal at the time? Chelsea, City, United certainly and very comfortably. Was he in a position to even try to compete with those three?
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We were actually outspending Chelsea at the time.
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I think you might want to check your figures there.
17/18 you spent £152m, Chelsea spent £260m
16/17 you spent £113m, Chelsea spent £132m
15/16 you spent £26m, Chelsea spent £96m
14/15 you spent £118m, Chelsea spent £137m
All transfermarkt.
Over £200m additional investment over four seasons should be a top new first team player every 12 months.
posted on 9/4/21
No you don't, but unfortunately you got stuck in a bad situation where a manager of the calibre you wanted wasn't available in 2013. Why replace Wenger to get somebody who may have done much worse, at the time.
I imagine you thought Emery would have been the correct man to take you forward. He wasn't exactly a poor appointment when he was first announced, but it didn't work out that way.
If a Klopp or Pep was available in 2013, you could point to that time and say that was an error by the club. But they weren't. Any manager at that time that you'd have realistically got would have been a gamble.
posted on 9/4/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by The greatest trick Arteta ever pulled was conv... (U10012)
posted 3 seconds ago
Our situation would have been very different. Champions League for starters. Depending on how early we had changed managers (2013 was the prime time, imo) , the squad would have been very different, and the potential signings we could have made could have been very different.
It isn't just about if we could have found the right manager, there are many circumstances that would have given a new manager a better chance of success.
-----------
I can understand why it wasn't done in 2013/14 tbh. Is it not when we just got the Puma's deal? So basically when we started to have money to spend? It'd have been very unfair to kick out the guy who maintained us in top 4 on a string and sack him as soon as money was available.
Not sacking in 2016 was a mistake though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was when our mortgage payments eased and we renegotiated many deals to leave us financially stronger.
Football had moved on since pre-Emirates. Wenger was not in touch with the market as he once was. He also didn't allow help, the big difference between him and Fergie, who was always looking for new ideas.
Sentiment says Wenger deserved a chance to spend the money. But sentiment doesn't hold much weight in football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not disagreeing with this, but this is a hindsight. It is when he started to spend the money and yet couldn't get it right apart from couples FA cup that it was clear that he lost it. Prior to that, you could argue our squad was missing one or two players, which we couldn't afford to get back to the top.
posted on 9/4/21
If a Klopp or Pep was available in 2013, you could point to that time and say that was an error by the club. But they weren't. Any manager at that time that you'd have realistically got would have been a gamble.
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Not exactly true, is it? Klopp was in contract negotiations with Dortmund, a strong play for him could have got him. Pep was on a year out, a strong play for him would have given him a choice to make. Allegri was considering his future. There were also other managers about at that time. Arsenal were a better prospect than we are now, who knows what would have happened if Wenger had moved earlier.
Plus 2013 could be 2014, or 15 if you wanted to give Wenger a chance with the new money.
Waiting until we were out of the Champions League is clearly hindering us going forward.
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