Well it is true then because as you say, Pep was on a year out therefore probably wouldn't have taken the job, Klopp wouldn't have as I'm sure he'd have probably preferred to stay at Dortmund as well. Allegri was probably your best bet, but even then, he wasn't exactly "available" was he.
Arsenal wouldn't have offered them better than what they already had just because you were in the CL at that time.
I agree that waiting until you were out of the Champions League was a bad play from the club, but as I say, what could have happened then that would have stopped that seemingly inevitable descent to where you are now? Probably not a great deal otherwise I'd have imagined it would have been done. It seems as if it was just a bad situation no matter what happened at that time, keep Wenger or replace him.
It was Wenger’s fault the job wasn’t attractive to good managers. Piiiiissed away all your money on crap and left you out of the CL.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 6 minutes ago
If a Klopp or Pep was available in 2013, you could point to that time and say that was an error by the club. But they weren't. Any manager at that time that you'd have realistically got would have been a gamble.
====
Not exactly true, is it? Klopp was in contract negotiations with Dortmund, a strong play for him could have got him. Pep was on a year out, a strong play for him would have given him a choice to make. Allegri was considering his future. There were also other managers about at that time. Arsenal were a better prospect than we are now, who knows what would have happened if Wenger had moved earlier.
Plus 2013 could be 2014, or 15 if you wanted to give Wenger a chance with the new money.
Waiting until we were out of the Champions League is clearly hindering us going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pep could have walked through the door at any club in the world and, regardless, Begiristain had already been installed at City in preparation for Pep’s arrival. He wasn’t going to sign for another English club before moving there.
2013 was also the year that Klopp turned down United. What might Arsenal have had or done that would have tempted him to move there rather than stay on at Dortmund or join United?
Pep and Klopp both have said they had considered Arsenal if Wenger left.
Klopp wasn't interested in United because they were too focused on "commercial influences".
I think you may have been able to tempt Klopp if the timing was right. Not a chance in hell of Pep taking over at Arsenal, though.
They also weren't the only two managers around in 2013, 14 or 15. So focusing on 2 managers is a bit of a ridiculous argument when trying to say Wenger should have been untouchable for the rest of his life.
They considered it, but neither went there. So that basically tells you what you need to know doesn't it.
It's not focusing on two managers, those are just examples. Everybody named (Klopp, Pep and Allegri) all had reasons as to why they wouldn't have joined Arsenal. So who would have then in 2013/14/15 that would have done better than what Wenger did?
They considered it, but neither went there. So that basically tells you what you need to know doesn't it.
======
Yeah, Wenger was there.
I agree with that. Arsenal were a more attractive proposition in those years for managers than they were when Wenger eventually left.
comment by rosso - he hands you a nickel, and he hands you a dime, and he asks you with a grin if you're havin' a good time (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 2 minutes ago
Fergie won the title 5 times in his last 7 seasons. Again, hardly comparable to the situation Arsenal were in under Wenger in his last couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair point, but these things are relative.
How many clubs were outspending Arsenal at the time? Chelsea, City, United certainly and very comfortably. Was he in a position to even try to compete with those three?
Liverpool, Everton, Spurs?
The point remains: nobody could really have expected another attainable manager to come in and make Arsenal contenders again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point remains: nobody could really have expected another attainable manager to come in and make Arsenal contenders again.
======
Leicester City, title winners 2015/16.
But making Arsenal contenders was beyond every manager in the world
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 9 minutes ago
They considered it, but neither went there. So that basically tells you what you need to know doesn't it.
======
Yeah, Wenger was there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how do you consider a job that isn't available? They didn't exactly consider it that seriously if the club weren't going to replace Wenger with them.
If they really wanted to replace Wenger then, they would have done. But as I say, nobody better was available at that time, so why gamble your current position on somebody who isn't proven to be good enough.
"Pep and Klopp both have said they had considered Arsenal if Wenger left."
Forget Klopp and Pep. What about Poch, Conte and Rodgers?
comment by Shola The Ameobi Shoretire (U10026)
posted 3 seconds ago
Forget Klopp and Pep. What about Poch, Conte and Rodgers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't be silly, there was literally no manager who could have done a better job than Wenger. He was the best manager in the world from 2013-2017. How dare you suggest otherwise.
Alright if you want to keep believing that one of Klopp or Pep would have ended up at Arsenal then fair enough. They may have considered it, they may have been a more attractive prospect when you were in the CL, but you still weren't at the level they would have wanted to go to.
Considering Pep was at Bayern winning titles, Klopp's successes at Dortmund and everything before that, why would Arsenal, trophy-less for 10+ years at that point I believe (?), have attracted two of the best coaches in the world?
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Shola The Ameobi Shoretire (U10026)
posted 3 seconds ago
Forget Klopp and Pep. What about Poch, Conte and Rodgers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't be silly, there was literally no manager who could have done a better job than Wenger. He was the best manager in the world from 2013-2017. How dare you suggest otherwise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody has said that.
What I am saying was that there was no realistic, better alternative to Wenger at that time, hence why the club stuck with him until they did and Emery became available.
I'm sure if Pep, Klopp or any other top name managers wanted to go to Arsenal, Wenger would have gone before he did.
Klopp, who joined a team not in the Champions League and who had one league cup in 8 years? That Klopp?
Considering Pep was at Bayern winning titles,
====
He wasn't. That is the point. He took a year off. Bayern took the initiative and went hard for him, despite having a successful manager in place.
Pep obviously wouldn’t have gone there, but Arsenal were a more attractive club than Liverpool when Klopp took over them. That one wouldn’t have been a stretch providing the timing was right.
And, why we are still on the idea there were only 2 managers capable of improving Arsenal from 2013 to 2017 is beyond me.
I don’t think it’s as simple as saying Arsenal would have replaced Wenger if these coaches would have wanted to go there.
Wenger’s job security was so strong, that the club wouldn’t have been laying the groundwork to try and bring in some of the coaches that could have given Arsenal a chance of breaking through their glass ceiling.
They left it too late, and here we are three years later with Arsenal looking an utter shambles on and off the pitch.
If they’d have taken a calculated risk when the playing squad and finances were more stable, they’d probably still be in decent shape.
Wenger’s job security was so strong
=
He did extend his contract more than once in that period. It wasn't that strong if we had intentions of moving forward.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 minutes ago
Considering Pep was at Bayern winning titles,
====
He wasn't. That is the point. He took a year off. Bayern took the initiative and went hard for him, despite having a successful manager in place.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright so he was previously at a team winning trophies. He took a year off. But if Arsenal were this attractive prospect that managers better than Wenger would have gone there, why didn't the club move to get them?
You could have let Wenger go well before then with these big name managers available, so if you were that attractive to these guys, why didn't you move to get them?
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 minutes ago
Considering Pep was at Bayern winning titles,
====
He wasn't. That is the point. He took a year off. Bayern took the initiative and went hard for him, despite having a successful manager in place.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright so he was previously at a team winning trophies. He took a year off. But if Arsenal were this attractive prospect that managers better than Wenger would have gone there, why didn't the club move to get them?
You could have let Wenger go well before then with these big name managers available, so if you were that attractive to these guys, why didn't you move to get them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because we had Wenger!! And the owners felt he was the best man. The owners whose football knowledge and decision making is notoriously bad. Who relied on a certain Frenchman to have almost total control of the club.
Sign in if you want to comment
Be careful what you wish for
Page 4 of 5
posted on 9/4/21
Well it is true then because as you say, Pep was on a year out therefore probably wouldn't have taken the job, Klopp wouldn't have as I'm sure he'd have probably preferred to stay at Dortmund as well. Allegri was probably your best bet, but even then, he wasn't exactly "available" was he.
Arsenal wouldn't have offered them better than what they already had just because you were in the CL at that time.
I agree that waiting until you were out of the Champions League was a bad play from the club, but as I say, what could have happened then that would have stopped that seemingly inevitable descent to where you are now? Probably not a great deal otherwise I'd have imagined it would have been done. It seems as if it was just a bad situation no matter what happened at that time, keep Wenger or replace him.
posted on 9/4/21
It was Wenger’s fault the job wasn’t attractive to good managers. Piiiiissed away all your money on crap and left you out of the CL.
posted on 9/4/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 6 minutes ago
If a Klopp or Pep was available in 2013, you could point to that time and say that was an error by the club. But they weren't. Any manager at that time that you'd have realistically got would have been a gamble.
====
Not exactly true, is it? Klopp was in contract negotiations with Dortmund, a strong play for him could have got him. Pep was on a year out, a strong play for him would have given him a choice to make. Allegri was considering his future. There were also other managers about at that time. Arsenal were a better prospect than we are now, who knows what would have happened if Wenger had moved earlier.
Plus 2013 could be 2014, or 15 if you wanted to give Wenger a chance with the new money.
Waiting until we were out of the Champions League is clearly hindering us going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pep could have walked through the door at any club in the world and, regardless, Begiristain had already been installed at City in preparation for Pep’s arrival. He wasn’t going to sign for another English club before moving there.
2013 was also the year that Klopp turned down United. What might Arsenal have had or done that would have tempted him to move there rather than stay on at Dortmund or join United?
posted on 9/4/21
Pep and Klopp both have said they had considered Arsenal if Wenger left.
Klopp wasn't interested in United because they were too focused on "commercial influences".
posted on 9/4/21
I think you may have been able to tempt Klopp if the timing was right. Not a chance in hell of Pep taking over at Arsenal, though.
posted on 9/4/21
They also weren't the only two managers around in 2013, 14 or 15. So focusing on 2 managers is a bit of a ridiculous argument when trying to say Wenger should have been untouchable for the rest of his life.
posted on 9/4/21
They considered it, but neither went there. So that basically tells you what you need to know doesn't it.
It's not focusing on two managers, those are just examples. Everybody named (Klopp, Pep and Allegri) all had reasons as to why they wouldn't have joined Arsenal. So who would have then in 2013/14/15 that would have done better than what Wenger did?
posted on 9/4/21
They considered it, but neither went there. So that basically tells you what you need to know doesn't it.
======
Yeah, Wenger was there.
posted on 9/4/21
I agree with that. Arsenal were a more attractive proposition in those years for managers than they were when Wenger eventually left.
posted on 9/4/21
comment by rosso - he hands you a nickel, and he hands you a dime, and he asks you with a grin if you're havin' a good time (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 2 minutes ago
Fergie won the title 5 times in his last 7 seasons. Again, hardly comparable to the situation Arsenal were in under Wenger in his last couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair point, but these things are relative.
How many clubs were outspending Arsenal at the time? Chelsea, City, United certainly and very comfortably. Was he in a position to even try to compete with those three?
Liverpool, Everton, Spurs?
The point remains: nobody could really have expected another attainable manager to come in and make Arsenal contenders again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 9/4/21
The point remains: nobody could really have expected another attainable manager to come in and make Arsenal contenders again.
======
Leicester City, title winners 2015/16.
But making Arsenal contenders was beyond every manager in the world
posted on 9/4/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 9 minutes ago
They considered it, but neither went there. So that basically tells you what you need to know doesn't it.
======
Yeah, Wenger was there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how do you consider a job that isn't available? They didn't exactly consider it that seriously if the club weren't going to replace Wenger with them.
If they really wanted to replace Wenger then, they would have done. But as I say, nobody better was available at that time, so why gamble your current position on somebody who isn't proven to be good enough.
posted on 9/4/21
"Pep and Klopp both have said they had considered Arsenal if Wenger left."
posted on 9/4/21
Forget Klopp and Pep. What about Poch, Conte and Rodgers?
posted on 9/4/21
comment by Shola The Ameobi Shoretire (U10026)
posted 3 seconds ago
Forget Klopp and Pep. What about Poch, Conte and Rodgers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't be silly, there was literally no manager who could have done a better job than Wenger. He was the best manager in the world from 2013-2017. How dare you suggest otherwise.
posted on 9/4/21
Alright if you want to keep believing that one of Klopp or Pep would have ended up at Arsenal then fair enough. They may have considered it, they may have been a more attractive prospect when you were in the CL, but you still weren't at the level they would have wanted to go to.
Considering Pep was at Bayern winning titles, Klopp's successes at Dortmund and everything before that, why would Arsenal, trophy-less for 10+ years at that point I believe (?), have attracted two of the best coaches in the world?
posted on 9/4/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Shola The Ameobi Shoretire (U10026)
posted 3 seconds ago
Forget Klopp and Pep. What about Poch, Conte and Rodgers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't be silly, there was literally no manager who could have done a better job than Wenger. He was the best manager in the world from 2013-2017. How dare you suggest otherwise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody has said that.
What I am saying was that there was no realistic, better alternative to Wenger at that time, hence why the club stuck with him until they did and Emery became available.
I'm sure if Pep, Klopp or any other top name managers wanted to go to Arsenal, Wenger would have gone before he did.
posted on 9/4/21
Klopp, who joined a team not in the Champions League and who had one league cup in 8 years? That Klopp?
posted on 9/4/21
Considering Pep was at Bayern winning titles,
====
He wasn't. That is the point. He took a year off. Bayern took the initiative and went hard for him, despite having a successful manager in place.
posted on 9/4/21
Pep obviously wouldn’t have gone there, but Arsenal were a more attractive club than Liverpool when Klopp took over them. That one wouldn’t have been a stretch providing the timing was right.
posted on 9/4/21
And, why we are still on the idea there were only 2 managers capable of improving Arsenal from 2013 to 2017 is beyond me.
posted on 9/4/21
I don’t think it’s as simple as saying Arsenal would have replaced Wenger if these coaches would have wanted to go there.
Wenger’s job security was so strong, that the club wouldn’t have been laying the groundwork to try and bring in some of the coaches that could have given Arsenal a chance of breaking through their glass ceiling.
They left it too late, and here we are three years later with Arsenal looking an utter shambles on and off the pitch.
If they’d have taken a calculated risk when the playing squad and finances were more stable, they’d probably still be in decent shape.
posted on 9/4/21
Wenger’s job security was so strong
=
He did extend his contract more than once in that period. It wasn't that strong if we had intentions of moving forward.
posted on 9/4/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 minutes ago
Considering Pep was at Bayern winning titles,
====
He wasn't. That is the point. He took a year off. Bayern took the initiative and went hard for him, despite having a successful manager in place.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright so he was previously at a team winning trophies. He took a year off. But if Arsenal were this attractive prospect that managers better than Wenger would have gone there, why didn't the club move to get them?
You could have let Wenger go well before then with these big name managers available, so if you were that attractive to these guys, why didn't you move to get them?
posted on 9/4/21
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 minutes ago
Considering Pep was at Bayern winning titles,
====
He wasn't. That is the point. He took a year off. Bayern took the initiative and went hard for him, despite having a successful manager in place.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright so he was previously at a team winning trophies. He took a year off. But if Arsenal were this attractive prospect that managers better than Wenger would have gone there, why didn't the club move to get them?
You could have let Wenger go well before then with these big name managers available, so if you were that attractive to these guys, why didn't you move to get them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because we had Wenger!! And the owners felt he was the best man. The owners whose football knowledge and decision making is notoriously bad. Who relied on a certain Frenchman to have almost total control of the club.
Page 4 of 5