Here's a good read about one of the reasons why Real are struggling this season.

https://www.managingmadrid.com/2018/10/9/17931818/real-madrids-good-counter-press-doesnt-lead-to-enough-attacking-opportunities

"If you want to control a match, it’s not enough to keep possession — you have to suffocate opponents in their own third to eliminate their chances of crossing the half-way line. If you lose possession, you spearhead a counter-press and rely on your teammates to support you. The idea is straightforward. When the opposition obtains the ball after not having it for a while, they’ll be cold — eager to find their outlet, string some passes together, and counter. That eagerness, coupled with immediate pressure by the team that loses the ball after holding it for a while, forces deep lines into panic — playing it out of their feet quickly with a decreased chance of breaking through. When counter-pressing teams win the ball back, they can hit waves and waves of second and third-chance attacks. It’s demoralizing to play against"

Good article Nadz, long though, and Real haven’t countered pressed last few years so doesn’t really shed light on the big reason your not scoring imo.

Great praise of Ceballos though

Looks like Ceballos is one of the bright spots of this counter press Real are trying to play

"Almost any discussion of a successful counter-press circles back to Dani Ceballos, and his understanding of it. He is an ace — the ultimate energy-thespian whose electricity cascades to the rest of the team. Sometimes his eagerness to win the ball is too ambitious. There is a balance somewhere that Lopetegui needs to find with him and the rest of his teammates who aren’t always in the right position or mindset to follow suit.

Ceballos has a great toolbox that will almost ensure he transitions into a great player once he sheds some of his decision-making kinks. His rare skill-set, general football IQ, and nature to hotfoot into correct defensive positions makes him easy to play with.

That stuff comes easy for Dani, who has a natural instinct for winning possession in the opposition’s third"

Sounds a lot like, whilst he's very good at it, the rest of the team aren't doing it, so he shouldn't be either really, as it just causes gaps to appear. No point being great at something if it isn't how the rest of the team are set up

That’s up to Lopetegui to stop implementing it then not Ceballos obviously

It is, yes

I much prefer the way Zidane set us up as it was a possession/counter attacking style that worked because we had Ronaldo to spearhead the attack. While we should be better defensively now Ronaldo is not here, it gives the opposition more freedom to attack us down that left side where the Marcelo+CR7 combo would overwhelm the opposition right flank before. Ronaldo leaving has hit us hard which was always going to happen but it's up to the manager to find the solution. The international break came at the best time, hopefully the break will rejuvenate the team.

Attack is best form of defence! Would’ve been more dangerous targeting to attack Marcelo before as their more likely to hurt you than the other way round.

This season he’s being caught out more defensively as the attack isn’t coming together

Don’t see how Real can sort it without a new signing or two

Looks like Ceballos would be perfect for Klopp/Liverpool Maybe we should have loaned him to Liverpool to learn from the master of the press himself.

Guardiola press > Klopp press!

Recent results between the two would suggest otherwise...

That’s only if you discount all results except between the two TAB....

All recent games showed for me were that Liverpool's long, direct ball tactics worked better against a press than Pep's play out from the back...

Plus, there's way more skill involved in getting a team with Silva, Aguero and KDB to press well than a team with 3 DMs and a striker that's actually a midfielder!

Man City tear teams apart due to their sheer quality on the ball, their ball retention is superb to the point where the opposition barely see the ball and when they do they simply lump it long to clear their lines before another wave from the Man City attack.

A vast amount of Liverpool's goals come from dispossessing the opposition in dangerous areas and hitting them on the counter, a direct result of the press.

Man City dominate games by utilising the technical ability of the likes of De Bruyne and Silva by retaining possession and picking apart the opposition as opposed to their pressing ability. Contrast this with Liverpool's midfield which is built around workrate and the ability to press the opposition and win back the ball in dangerous areas.

Whilst Pep is a tactical genius I can't really say I agree that he operates a superior pressing system than Klopp.

Also on the subject of young midfielders impressing in La Liga, think I may have to give Arthur his first start this weekend after a very impressive start to life at Barca

For a change I agree with lstd on this one.

Also very impressive is a big push TAB, he’s started what a couple games! Made a lot of passes, but those passes haven’t really had an impact

Each to the own, although the fact that LSTD has conceded that Pep's press can be beaten by long direct balls highlights its flaws. The same can't be said of the Liverpool press which is reliant on the front 3 and midfield pressing collectively as opposed to simply positioning the whole team higher up the field, leaving space in behind to be exploited.

Arthur has been getting very good reviews from the press in Spain, has been entrusted to start the last few games, earned his first cap for Brazil and looks as though he's been at the club for years. If you don't consider that an impressive in his first few months at the club then your standards are extremely high

Particularly when you've got someone as experienced and highly rated as Vidal who can barely get a kick at the club.

Think that’s making Peps press fat too simplistic. Simply positioning up the field as such wouldn’t be a press just a high line.

He’s started two league games, how did Barca get on in those? Takes a lot more than two league games to say a very impressive start imo. And takes more than completing a lot of passes, should be having an actual impact rather than passing for the sake of it.

Don’t get me wrong I like Arthur, why I brought him into the league! But he’s not been very impressive yet at all. He’ll take time to adjust and bring impact is all imo.

Think its far too simplistic to suggest that Pep's success is a result of his ability to get the likes of Aguero, De Bruyne and Silva to press. His tactics are far too complex and evolved to be attributed to a single factor. Watching the recent Man City documentary was insightful, also interesting that he instructed his team not to press Liverpool in certain areas as he knew they'd be exploited. Can't say the same of the Liverpool press in those ties.

No different to questioning Madrid's results in Ceballos' recent performances. Arthur was impressive in his Champions League debut against Spurs and also in their recent game against Valencia by all accounts. His passing statistics in that game coming close to breaking a record set by Xavi, another player that interestingly made a lot of passes without registering a huge number of goals/assists.

Yeah agree, to suggest City just play higher up is wrong imo. City's press involves lots of different movements, wingers pressing the CBs, CF behind them, both CMs pressing the same half space, Fernandinho dropping into defence when CBs press wide, FBs tucking in, bowl shaped defence behind the 5 pressing. Plenty of intricacies if you ask me.

It can be beaten by Liverpool's long balls simply because you have the fastest wingers, can't think of any other team that have managed it to much use!

Also never said his success was down to getting those players to press, said that I think the fact that he's got those players to press as well as they do together, is more impressive than getting a team with 3 DMs to press well