I think this is the fundamental lesson we can take from this England team: we can be more united, there is a common good. At the start of the Euros we saw plenty on the Right encouraging the booing of the England team on account of the knee. There are some floating around on the English Left who can't support England because they see England and Englishness as irredeemable. Many of those figures have gone quiet or backtracked over the last fortnight. Those who haven't look increasingly marginal. They won't go away. But I hope a decisive majority comes away slightly changed by this collective experience. There's really nothing that Remainers or Leavers, Right or Left should find objectionable about the Englishness represented by Southgate and his team. I hope the joy they have given us changes us.
From an outsider looking in it's an Englishness that I can very much get on board with.
Generosity of spirit, being inclusive to all, and just general decency. It's what I'd want from my neighbours certainly.
I'm not particularly patriotic (find it a strange concept personally) but this England squad seem like a nice group of lads who are really enjoying themselves and Southgate can take a lot of credit for creating that environment. It's great that there's a wide range of ethnic diversity too which really is positive and something football does brilliantly at.
Anyone who has an issue with the players tacking the knee can f-ck off, as can all the tories and their gesture politics during the Euros, especailly Priti Patel the c-nt.
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 29 minutes ago
From an outsider looking in it's an Englishness that I can very much get on board with.
Generosity of spirit, being inclusive to all, and just general decency. It's what I'd want from my neighbours certainly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a shame your neighbors are welsh then?
comment by Ole-dirty-baztard - You want ole in, ole out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about. Do the ole Koke-Penited (U19119)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 29 minutes ago
From an outsider looking in it's an Englishness that I can very much get on board with.
Generosity of spirit, being inclusive to all, and just general decency. It's what I'd want from my neighbours certainly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a shame your neighbors are welsh then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're actually not! They're your lot!
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Ole-dirty-baztard - You want ole in, ole out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about. Do the ole Koke-Penited (U19119)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 29 minutes ago
From an outsider looking in it's an Englishness that I can very much get on board with.
Generosity of spirit, being inclusive to all, and just general decency. It's what I'd want from my neighbours certainly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a shame your neighbors are welsh then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're actually not!They're your lot!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the dear england page doesnt work.... after all that effort typing that out by the OP....
1 star and sharticle
It is a subject that is very difficult to pin down, let alone share.
Whilst I have many nuances in my views, plus they have changed over time and may again.
The first thing for me ( I will talk about being English not British as it is referencing the English team) is Englishness.
If you are born in England you are English, albeit if your mother is Ethiopean and father Canadian. If you are happy as your life progresses, school is good, get a job you are likely to be patriotic. If you came to England as a refugee or seeking a better life you are likely to be patriotic.
Beyond that you are likely to prefer the region you are from, then the town you live in. So I am a pround Mancunian, Lancashire lad, and English. Many are the same.
For my self the problems begin, or can do, on one of two problems.
That they arrive for a better life, but do not work for it ( very few in this catagory ).
Ot that they make no effort to integrate, and indeed complain how things are here.
So for me I can honestly say I have no problem with skin colour, or religion, or sexual preference, they all come alike, I may or may not like them, but that's based on personality.
I have written before though on one thing that does offend even my own liberal values.
Living for a time in East Lancashire, gradually the area changed to having a predominately Pakistan population, including my next door neighbour. Now he, and I'm sure most' was a nice bloke. But it was difficult because we had no shared history, culture, nothing really to talk about, not sport, holidays, work etc. I began to feel alienated, and moved.
So I'm not sure where I fit on the liberal/illiberal scale. Further more despite living in France for over eleven years, I shout for England, never France, and feel English with no part of me French.
So voila, that's my own viewpoint, I have no rights to lecture anyone else on their feelings, so long, of course, that it does not lead to aggression, even verbally.
RR, is there an audiobook version of this article?
MU52 I don't mean this in a bad way but how would you think you moving to France differs to the Pakistani family moving into your community.
It's an interesting subject for me as I don't really care where people are from as long as they respect the local culture and are decent people. Like I'm certain you are from your posts on here.
Is their an emoji for an old windbag !
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 20 minutes ago
RR, is there an audiobook version of this article?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently the daily mail are serializing the article over 8 weeks…
comment by plain old dunc (U11713)
posted 28 minutes ago
the dear england page doesnt work.... after all that effort typing that out by the OP....
1 star and sharticle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for pointing out - now fixed
Wow Red.
Well reasoned and not much any sensible, decent person could have issue with.
comment by Ole-dirty-baztard - You want ole in, ole out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about. Do the ole Koke-Penited (U19119)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 20 minutes ago
RR, is there an audiobook version of this article?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently the daily mail are serializing the article over 8 weeks…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It'll be on my podcast too if RR agrees to the terms.
I’ve heard M52 is abit like Oliver Reed is to the French in this video.
https://youtu.be/_fEqwsMh7sA
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ole-dirty-baztard - You want ole in, ole out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about. Do the ole Koke-Penited (U19119)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 20 minutes ago
RR, is there an audiobook version of this article?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently the daily mail are serializing the article over 8 weeks…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It'll be on my podcast too if RR agrees to the terms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just bought the first copy of the daily mail serial. It’s not quite how RR wrote it, for instance, I don’t recall his article saying englishers should kill all foreigners? .
comment by Ole-dirty-baztard - You want ole in, ole out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about. Do the ole Koke-Penited (U19119)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ole-dirty-baztard - You want ole in, ole out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about. Do the ole Koke-Penited (U19119)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 20 minutes ago
RR, is there an audiobook version of this article?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently the daily mail are serializing the article over 8 weeks…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It'll be on my podcast too if RR agrees to the terms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just bought the first copy of the daily mail serial. It’s not quite how RR wrote it, for instance, I don’t recall his article saying englishers should kill all foreigners? .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You missed the (to mind pretty obvious) subtext to my post.
Yeah it's an interesting thing, I'm not particularly patriotic but all in all I'm proud to be English and while it's not perfect I generally love the people.
When we had things like booing the knee going on it did make me think twice about aligning myself with people who's actions I personally found very distasteful, at best.
In the end though I had to remind myself that for every person booing there were just as many applauding, those people shouldn't take my national identity away from me. At the forefront too, the way Southgate and the team have all handled themselves throughout they are really a team to be proud of regardless of what happens on Sunday.
Sometimes I feel like the divide is between people who are able to think about the country as a whole and people who are only able to think about their own life and how they want more from it, which leads to them looking for blame in places that don't really make sense. I dunno
comment by HarlequinHebdo (U16981)
posted 17 minutes ago
Is their an emoji for an old windbag !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Had a look and no there isn't but a handbag might do the trick
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 28 minutes ago
MU52 I don't mean this in a bad way but how would you think you moving to France differs to the Pakistani family moving into your community.
It's an interesting subject for me as I don't really care where people are from as long as they respect the local culture and are decent people. Like I'm certain you are from your posts on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's different in as much as I speak French, had already worked over here, and we have a lot in common, football for a starter. Also my other half is French.
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 28 minutes ago
MU52 I don't mean this in a bad way but how would you think you moving to France differs to the Pakistani family moving into your community.
It's an interesting subject for me as I don't really care where people are from as long as they respect the local culture and are decent people. Like I'm certain you are from your posts on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's different in as much as I speak French, had already worked over here, and we have a lot in common, football for a starter. Also my other half is French.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought that was the case MU52.
I was just confused when you wrote 'Further more despite living in France for over eleven years, I shout for England, never France, and feel English with no part of me French.' because that didn't sound much like what you've previously described before of your wonderful life there.
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 4 minutes ago
Sometimes I feel like the divide is between people who are able to think about the country as a whole and people who are only able to think about their own life and how they want more from it, which leads to them looking for blame in places that don't really make sense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Judging by this thread the division is between those who can / can't read more than 200 words without having a panic attack.
That's why they can't look at the bigger picture!
Sign in if you want to comment
This team and Englishness
Page 1 of 4
posted on 9/7/21
I think this is the fundamental lesson we can take from this England team: we can be more united, there is a common good. At the start of the Euros we saw plenty on the Right encouraging the booing of the England team on account of the knee. There are some floating around on the English Left who can't support England because they see England and Englishness as irredeemable. Many of those figures have gone quiet or backtracked over the last fortnight. Those who haven't look increasingly marginal. They won't go away. But I hope a decisive majority comes away slightly changed by this collective experience. There's really nothing that Remainers or Leavers, Right or Left should find objectionable about the Englishness represented by Southgate and his team. I hope the joy they have given us changes us.
posted on 9/7/21
From an outsider looking in it's an Englishness that I can very much get on board with.
Generosity of spirit, being inclusive to all, and just general decency. It's what I'd want from my neighbours certainly.
posted on 9/7/21
I'm not particularly patriotic (find it a strange concept personally) but this England squad seem like a nice group of lads who are really enjoying themselves and Southgate can take a lot of credit for creating that environment. It's great that there's a wide range of ethnic diversity too which really is positive and something football does brilliantly at.
Anyone who has an issue with the players tacking the knee can f-ck off, as can all the tories and their gesture politics during the Euros, especailly Priti Patel the c-nt.
posted on 9/7/21
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 29 minutes ago
From an outsider looking in it's an Englishness that I can very much get on board with.
Generosity of spirit, being inclusive to all, and just general decency. It's what I'd want from my neighbours certainly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a shame your neighbors are welsh then?
posted on 9/7/21
comment by Ole-dirty-baztard - You want ole in, ole out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about. Do the ole Koke-Penited (U19119)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 29 minutes ago
From an outsider looking in it's an Englishness that I can very much get on board with.
Generosity of spirit, being inclusive to all, and just general decency. It's what I'd want from my neighbours certainly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a shame your neighbors are welsh then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're actually not! They're your lot!
posted on 9/7/21
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Ole-dirty-baztard - You want ole in, ole out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about. Do the ole Koke-Penited (U19119)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 29 minutes ago
From an outsider looking in it's an Englishness that I can very much get on board with.
Generosity of spirit, being inclusive to all, and just general decency. It's what I'd want from my neighbours certainly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a shame your neighbors are welsh then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're actually not!They're your lot!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 9/7/21
the dear england page doesnt work.... after all that effort typing that out by the OP....
1 star and sharticle
posted on 9/7/21
It is a subject that is very difficult to pin down, let alone share.
Whilst I have many nuances in my views, plus they have changed over time and may again.
The first thing for me ( I will talk about being English not British as it is referencing the English team) is Englishness.
If you are born in England you are English, albeit if your mother is Ethiopean and father Canadian. If you are happy as your life progresses, school is good, get a job you are likely to be patriotic. If you came to England as a refugee or seeking a better life you are likely to be patriotic.
Beyond that you are likely to prefer the region you are from, then the town you live in. So I am a pround Mancunian, Lancashire lad, and English. Many are the same.
For my self the problems begin, or can do, on one of two problems.
That they arrive for a better life, but do not work for it ( very few in this catagory ).
Ot that they make no effort to integrate, and indeed complain how things are here.
So for me I can honestly say I have no problem with skin colour, or religion, or sexual preference, they all come alike, I may or may not like them, but that's based on personality.
I have written before though on one thing that does offend even my own liberal values.
Living for a time in East Lancashire, gradually the area changed to having a predominately Pakistan population, including my next door neighbour. Now he, and I'm sure most' was a nice bloke. But it was difficult because we had no shared history, culture, nothing really to talk about, not sport, holidays, work etc. I began to feel alienated, and moved.
So I'm not sure where I fit on the liberal/illiberal scale. Further more despite living in France for over eleven years, I shout for England, never France, and feel English with no part of me French.
So voila, that's my own viewpoint, I have no rights to lecture anyone else on their feelings, so long, of course, that it does not lead to aggression, even verbally.
posted on 9/7/21
RR, is there an audiobook version of this article?
posted on 9/7/21
Have 5 stars.
posted on 9/7/21
MU52 I don't mean this in a bad way but how would you think you moving to France differs to the Pakistani family moving into your community.
It's an interesting subject for me as I don't really care where people are from as long as they respect the local culture and are decent people. Like I'm certain you are from your posts on here.
posted on 9/7/21
Is their an emoji for an old windbag !
posted on 9/7/21
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 20 minutes ago
RR, is there an audiobook version of this article?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently the daily mail are serializing the article over 8 weeks…
posted on 9/7/21
comment by plain old dunc (U11713)
posted 28 minutes ago
the dear england page doesnt work.... after all that effort typing that out by the OP....
1 star and sharticle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for pointing out - now fixed
posted on 9/7/21
Wow Red.
Well reasoned and not much any sensible, decent person could have issue with.
posted on 9/7/21
comment by Ole-dirty-baztard - You want ole in, ole out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about. Do the ole Koke-Penited (U19119)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 20 minutes ago
RR, is there an audiobook version of this article?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently the daily mail are serializing the article over 8 weeks…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It'll be on my podcast too if RR agrees to the terms.
posted on 9/7/21
I’ve heard M52 is abit like Oliver Reed is to the French in this video.
https://youtu.be/_fEqwsMh7sA
posted on 9/7/21
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ole-dirty-baztard - You want ole in, ole out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about. Do the ole Koke-Penited (U19119)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 20 minutes ago
RR, is there an audiobook version of this article?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently the daily mail are serializing the article over 8 weeks…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It'll be on my podcast too if RR agrees to the terms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just bought the first copy of the daily mail serial. It’s not quite how RR wrote it, for instance, I don’t recall his article saying englishers should kill all foreigners? .
posted on 9/7/21
comment by Ole-dirty-baztard - You want ole in, ole out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about. Do the ole Koke-Penited (U19119)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ole-dirty-baztard - You want ole in, ole out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about. Do the ole Koke-Penited (U19119)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 20 minutes ago
RR, is there an audiobook version of this article?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently the daily mail are serializing the article over 8 weeks…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It'll be on my podcast too if RR agrees to the terms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just bought the first copy of the daily mail serial. It’s not quite how RR wrote it, for instance, I don’t recall his article saying englishers should kill all foreigners? .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You missed the (to mind pretty obvious) subtext to my post.
posted on 9/7/21
Yeah it's an interesting thing, I'm not particularly patriotic but all in all I'm proud to be English and while it's not perfect I generally love the people.
When we had things like booing the knee going on it did make me think twice about aligning myself with people who's actions I personally found very distasteful, at best.
In the end though I had to remind myself that for every person booing there were just as many applauding, those people shouldn't take my national identity away from me. At the forefront too, the way Southgate and the team have all handled themselves throughout they are really a team to be proud of regardless of what happens on Sunday.
Sometimes I feel like the divide is between people who are able to think about the country as a whole and people who are only able to think about their own life and how they want more from it, which leads to them looking for blame in places that don't really make sense. I dunno
posted on 9/7/21
comment by HarlequinHebdo (U16981)
posted 17 minutes ago
Is their an emoji for an old windbag !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Had a look and no there isn't but a handbag might do the trick
posted on 9/7/21
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 28 minutes ago
MU52 I don't mean this in a bad way but how would you think you moving to France differs to the Pakistani family moving into your community.
It's an interesting subject for me as I don't really care where people are from as long as they respect the local culture and are decent people. Like I'm certain you are from your posts on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's different in as much as I speak French, had already worked over here, and we have a lot in common, football for a starter. Also my other half is French.
posted on 9/7/21
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 28 minutes ago
MU52 I don't mean this in a bad way but how would you think you moving to France differs to the Pakistani family moving into your community.
It's an interesting subject for me as I don't really care where people are from as long as they respect the local culture and are decent people. Like I'm certain you are from your posts on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's different in as much as I speak French, had already worked over here, and we have a lot in common, football for a starter. Also my other half is French.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought that was the case MU52.
I was just confused when you wrote 'Further more despite living in France for over eleven years, I shout for England, never France, and feel English with no part of me French.' because that didn't sound much like what you've previously described before of your wonderful life there.
posted on 9/7/21
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 4 minutes ago
Sometimes I feel like the divide is between people who are able to think about the country as a whole and people who are only able to think about their own life and how they want more from it, which leads to them looking for blame in places that don't really make sense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Judging by this thread the division is between those who can / can't read more than 200 words without having a panic attack.
posted on 9/7/21
That's why they can't look at the bigger picture!
Page 1 of 4