comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 4 minutes ago
I don't think he is the problem, I just don't think he was the solution in the summer. But when Ronaldo becomes available, how do you pass that opportunity up to sign somebody of that quality?
....................................
He was heading to City. If that happened, I mean Guardiola is about 8 levels about Ole, but we may as well have conceded we won't be challenging for the title. Now, these know it alls telling us we should not have got him. City would've gladly welcomed him en route to the title
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Are you referring to me as one of those "know-it-alls" saying that you shouldn't have signed him when I've actually said the opposite?
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 3 minutes ago
I don't think he is the problem, I just don't think he was the solution in the summer. But when Ronaldo becomes available, how do you pass that opportunity up to sign somebody of that quality?
....................................
He was heading to City. If that happened, I mean Guardiola is about 8 levels about Ole, but we may as well have conceded we won't be challenging for the title. Now, these know it alls telling us we should not have got him. City would've gladly welcomed him en route to the title
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i find the city move v hard to get my head around tbh
CR7 even in his prime was never a fraudiola type of player...now at 36 with no pressing and limited movement ...how the hell would he have played in a pep team ?
makes no sense
Our biggest problem is the lack of structure to our play. There’s no pattern to it. Players aren’t moving before their team mate receives the ball because they aren’t being coached properly.
The plan seems to be to give Pogba and Bruno the ball and hope they can find the runner, when really those runners should be moving before the ball reaches Pogba or Bruno.
It’s all very slow and the out ball is too often the long cross field pass to AWB or Shaw, which looks nice but ultimately is down to a tactical failure.
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 2 minutes ago
He definitely limits you in some ways. You'd think a better manager could get around those issues but is it really worth it when his shelf life is likely only a season or two at most.
As an impact sub and someone to learn off for other players he'd probably make more sense right now under Ole. You've got an exciting, young front line that could play great, fast paced football but they need to be trusted and have the team built to their strengths
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as an impact sub i could have understood the move more
but CR7's ego would never allow himself to be a bench player at any club
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 3 minutes ago
I don't think he is the problem, I just don't think he was the solution in the summer. But when Ronaldo becomes available, how do you pass that opportunity up to sign somebody of that quality?
....................................
He was heading to City. If that happened, I mean Guardiola is about 8 levels about Ole, but we may as well have conceded we won't be challenging for the title. Now, these know it alls telling us we should not have got him. City would've gladly welcomed him en route to the title
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i find the city move v hard to get my head around tbh
CR7 even in his prime was never a fraudiola type of player...now at 36 with no pressing and limited movement ...how the hell would he have played in a pep team ?
makes no sense
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It made sense to Pep and believe you me it was happening. If Raheem Sterling can be part of Pep's squad, I am not sure sure why arguably the greatest scorer of all time cannot. Pep is the master at finding solutions to problems, so I find it bizarre why it makes no sense to you. Elite managers find solutions.
Ronaldo is there to score goals. I'm sure he's been told to stay up top, but whatever tactics Ole and his coaches are using are clearly not working. We are already one of the worst teams without the ball and I guess having Ronaldo there doesn't help but he's not the only issue. I don't think even a good holding midfielder would make a difference with the way team plays.
Just watch us without the the ball nobody bothers to try and win it back, its an easy ride to the defence for the opposing team, and if De Gea hadn't been back to his best, we would be leaking way more goals. I'm sorry but this is all coaching, none of the players know what to do to defend as a team. Its like school playground football where everyone wants to have individual glory for themselves. Never working hard when out of possession. Even Bruno doesn't press any more, when he first arrived he had a rocket up his ar$e. No discipline from the manager, all hugs and smiles and feel good. Don't worry boys you tried, pathetic. We're better off having no manager at all, doubt it would make much of a difference. Still get the same results with the individual quality we have.
He's got a massive problem with Ronaldo now. If he drops him or subs him there's hell on (remember the Everton game?), if he picks him we don't have a strategy to get the best out of him. This signing might be what actually does for Ole in the end if he can't work out the answer.
Hes a bit of a luxury, probably the best luxury out there and utd arent good enough to have a luxury player up top. Paul merson doesnt say much correct football wise but he said at start of season, ronaldo will score plenty of goals but against better sides it will be like utd are playing with 10 men. That appears to be the case thus far.
That being said your midfield is utterly appalling at times. I dont watch much utd but I watched your villareal game the other week and couldnt believe the ease with which your midfield was bypassed time and time and time again. Ive no idea if thats a personnel thing, a coaching thing or a bit of both but that the biggest issue at the minute. For a team who have title aspirations its nowhere near good enough.
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 14 seconds ago
Ronaldo is there to score goals. I'm sure he's been told to stay up top, but whatever tactics Ole and his coaches are using are clearly not working. We are already one of the worst teams without the ball and I guess having Ronaldo there doesn't help but he's not the only issue. I don't think even a good holding midfielder would make a difference with the way team plays.
Just watch us without the the ball nobody bothers to try and win it back, its an easy ride to the defence for the opposing team, and if De Gea hadn't been back to his best, we would be leaking way more goals. I'm sorry but this is all coaching, none of the players know what to do to defend as a team. Its like school playground football where everyone wants to have individual glory for themselves. Never working hard when out of possession. Even Bruno doesn't press any more, when he first arrived he had a rocket up his ar$e. No discipline from the manager, all hugs and smiles and feel good. Don't worry boys you tried, pathetic. We're better off having no manager at all, doubt it would make much of a difference. Still get the same results with the individual quality we have.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can be a friendly/relaxed/calm manager and still get the team going in fairness. Klopp does it, Wenger did it etc. It's different styles but it worked wonders. On the flip side plenty of angry, shout in your face managers from Souness to Keane have flopped badly
With Ole he just clearly can't motivate particularly well but more than that hasn't successfully developed any sort of workable system
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, OOOOOOHHHHHH YAAAAAAA BEEEAAAUUUTTTYYYYY!!!!!!!!! (U1859)
posted 36 seconds ago
I watched your villareal game the other week and couldnt believe the ease with which your midfield was bypassed time and time and time again. Ive no idea if thats a personnel thing, a coaching thing or a bit of both but that the biggest issue at the minute.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not just the Villareal game, it's most games.
It's a result of having to shoehorn Bruno and Pogba into the same team without any sort of quality around them in the middle to allow them to go off and do their own thing, with Sancho and Greenwood playing purely up front and Ronaldo doing what Ronaldo does. So you're left with McTominay, Fred or Matic, who are variously immobile or don't read the game that well, left to stick their finger in the dyke if an attack breaks down with five players left standing around up front.
comment by The Post Nearly Man. Ex Lion Tamer. (U1270)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, OOOOOOHHHHHH YAAAAAAA BEEEAAAUUUTTTYYYYY!!!!!!!!! (U1859)
posted 36 seconds ago
I watched your villareal game the other week and couldnt believe the ease with which your midfield was bypassed time and time and time again. Ive no idea if thats a personnel thing, a coaching thing or a bit of both but that the biggest issue at the minute.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not just the Villareal game, it's most games.
It's a result of having to shoehorn Bruno and Pogba into the same team without any sort of quality around them in the middle to allow them to go off and do their own thing, with Sancho and Greenwood playing purely up front and Ronaldo doing what Ronaldo does. So you're left with McTominay, Fred or Matic, who are variously immobile or don't read the game that well, left to stick their finger in the dyke if an attack breaks down with five players left standing around up front.
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Fair enough mate as I say I cant say Ive seen much of you this season but if the villareal game was one of many then thats a huge concern.
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, OOOOOOHHHHHH YAAAAAAA BEEEAAAUUUTTTYYYYY!!!!!!!!! (U1859)
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Fair enough mate as I say I cant say Ive seen much of you this season but if the villareal game was one of many then thats a huge concern.
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It's just the wrong shape for the players we've got, but the only shape he can play to get all the players he wants on the pitch. Bit of a shiiit paradox, really.
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
He would be a great signing if we had a proper midfield behind him and didn’t have to carry him
—-
You should have finished here.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
He would be a great signing if we had a proper midfield behind him and didn’t have to carry him
—-
You should have finished here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume you haven’t read what Gary Neville said.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 57 minutes ago
You can have more than one problem in a team. Ronaldo has come into a team with existing problems, but he has exacerbated them. We weren't good at pressing, and now we have a player who is in the lowest percentile for pressing who will occupy a place in the side at the expense of a player who will run much more than him. We have a poor build-up structure and a poor / incoherent midfield that can't dominate possession and create lots of chances, and now we have a striker (apparently undroppable) who is good at finding pockets of space and finishing but not capable of creating something out of nothing or making lung-bursting runs to create gaps for others.
Without Ronaldo we'd still be held back by the absurd failure to recruit elite CMs, by the problem that you can only get the best out of Fernandes in a 4-2-3-1 and only the best out of Pogba in a 4-3-3, and by Solskjaer's shortcomings as a manager. But the recruitment of Sancho and Varane this summer at least gave us the option of having more dynamism, fluidity and strength in depth in attack, together with the opportunity to play a little bit further up the pitch. Having Ronaldo in the side undermines both of those. If he really were the goal-scoring monster who only needs one chance to score, then the trade-off would probably be worth it. But we've seen a few games already where it hasn't worked out that way (in addition to games where he scored but we were awful and should have lost anyway).
Put it another way, if we'd channelled that Ronaldo investment into a good DM (Soumaré was very good for Leicester on Saturday, recruited from Lille for just £17m, following the excellent purchases of Ndidi and Tielemans) I think we'd be in a better position right now.
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I was going to say pretty much this. I was even going to use the word exacerbated.
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
He would be a great signing if we had a proper midfield behind him and didn’t have to carry him
—-
You should have finished here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume you haven’t read what Gary Neville said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What Gary Neville said doesn’t make any difference. Back then making up for Ronaldo’s deficiencies was minor considering his output. His output now is minor compared to then. And that is why we should not have brought him back.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
He would be a great signing if we had a proper midfield behind him and didn’t have to carry him
—-
You should have finished here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume you haven’t read what Gary Neville said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What Gary Neville said doesn’t make any difference. Back then making up for Ronaldo’s deficiencies was minor considering his output. His output now is minor compared to then. And that is why we should not have brought him back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree he was a bad signing for Ole but that’s not to say with the right players behind him he can’t be a good signing under the next manager. Yes, we should have invested in a CM instead of Ronaldo. I think 99% of this board agree. But that doesn’t mean we can’t make the signing a success, even a short term one with a more balanced line up. Hopefully if/when Conte comes in he’ll set us up better and play to Ronaldo’s strengths and have the other 9 outfield players work harder with the reward of Ronaldos goals.
If anyone here thinks that this team would've been doing any better without the signing of Ronaldo, I suggest you wake up
……
Why? I think that as a team we would be playing better with Cavani up front.
Is it just me who think that since we've signed Ronaldo we're actually crossing the ball into the box even less?
He's now a penalty box player so I think, if he is going to play, we should start playing to his strengths. Get it into the mixer and see where that takes us.
I think Ole needs to decide now on who to choose between Pogba and Bruno. It's clear to me now he can't get both into the team and playing well. If it were up to me I'd revert back to McFred (I know I know!) and get Bruno dropping a little deeper into the inside right channel at times to create an overload for the cross. Then play three forwards up top and not shoehorn Pogba in there.
For the Liverpool game I'd actually go (although Ronaldo is never getting 'dropped' with a midfield of McFred with Bruno just in front and then a forward three of Rashford, Cavani and Lingard. Each and every one of those will work hard and also there's enough quality there to do something when on the attack. The likes of Greenwood, Sancho, Pogba and Ronaldo would be subs.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 58 seconds ago
Is it just me who think that since we've signed Ronaldo we're actually crossing the ball into the box even less?
He's now a penalty box player so I think, if he is going to play, we should start playing to his strengths. Get it into the mixer and see where that takes us.
I think Ole needs to decide now on who to choose between Pogba and Bruno. It's clear to me now he can't get both into the team and playing well. If it were up to me I'd revert back to McFred (I know I know!) and get Bruno dropping a little deeper into the inside right channel at times to create an overload for the cross. Then play three forwards up top and not shoehorn Pogba in there.
For the Liverpool game I'd actually go (although Ronaldo is never getting 'dropped'with a midfield of McFred with Bruno just in front and then a forward three of Rashford, Cavani and Lingard. Each and every one of those will work hard and also there's enough quality there to do something when on the attack. The likes of Greenwood, Sancho, Pogba and Ronaldo would be subs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That sounds suspiciously like a different formation. I wouldn't hold your breath.
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
He would be a great signing if we had a proper midfield behind him and didn’t have to carry him
—-
You should have finished here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume you haven’t read what Gary Neville said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What Gary Neville said doesn’t make any difference. Back then making up for Ronaldo’s deficiencies was minor considering his output. His output now is minor compared to then. And that is why we should not have brought him back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree he was a bad signing for Ole but that’s not to say with the right players behind him he can’t be a good signing under the next manager. Yes, we should have invested in a CM instead of Ronaldo. I think 99% of this board agree. But that doesn’t mean we can’t make the signing a success, even a short term one with a more balanced line up. Hopefully if/when Conte comes in he’ll set us up better and play to Ronaldo’s strengths and have the other 9 outfield players work harder with the reward of Ronaldos goals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree Robb but we don’t have the right players behind him. We don’t have the right players to suit Pogba either. And that was abundantly clear on Saturday. Neither player rated above four for me.
comment by The Post Nearly Man. Ex Lion Tamer. (U1270)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 58 seconds ago
Is it just me who think that since we've signed Ronaldo we're actually crossing the ball into the box even less?
He's now a penalty box player so I think, if he is going to play, we should start playing to his strengths. Get it into the mixer and see where that takes us.
I think Ole needs to decide now on who to choose between Pogba and Bruno. It's clear to me now he can't get both into the team and playing well. If it were up to me I'd revert back to McFred (I know I know!) and get Bruno dropping a little deeper into the inside right channel at times to create an overload for the cross. Then play three forwards up top and not shoehorn Pogba in there.
For the Liverpool game I'd actually go (although Ronaldo is never getting 'dropped'with a midfield of McFred with Bruno just in front and then a forward three of Rashford, Cavani and Lingard. Each and every one of those will work hard and also there's enough quality there to do something when on the attack. The likes of Greenwood, Sancho, Pogba and Ronaldo would be subs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That sounds suspiciously like a different formation. I wouldn't hold your breath.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's just a minor tweak really just to get Bruno a bit more involved on the right (could be the left as well) side of midfield. Get Lingard, Rashford and Cavani to do the pressing.
There was a reason Ole played Dan James in some of the bigger games. I think we realise now just how important hard work is (if we didn't before).
Just read an article on the Athletic (I know, I keep plugging that, but it's where I'm finding the best content these days) by Michael Cox, who is the best tactical analyst I've come across. It gives me no pleasure at all to report that he basically validates what I just wrote - but in a much more authoritative way. He describes in great detail how bad our structure is when we're out of possession, giving lots of examples of disorganised pressing and poor shape enabling Leicester to pass through us with relative ease. This is totally on the management - down to fairly basic coaching stuff combined with incoherent squad building (e.g. still being in a position where Pogba is playing in a two-man midfield).
Cox also makes the point that it was entirely foreseeable that Ronaldo would magnify this existing shortcoming. He notes that whenever Ronaldo has left a club, the strike partner has had a big uptick in goals the following season because he's not having to do so much unselfish running to build the side around Ronaldo. Points out that Fernandes is indeed doing more running but risks being unable to contribute as much when he gets on the ball as a result. Points out that Greenwood was starting the season as a centre forward and can't be expected to morph into Park Ji-Sung the moment he gets shifted to the wing. Points out that Sancho is a very attacking winger and used to playing in front of a Dortmund side that excelled at pressing. So we're a side that was particularly poorly prepared to accommodate and make the most of Ronaldo's talent, and his arrival really has exacerbated what was already an issue for us.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think Ole needs to decide now on who to choose between Pogba and Bruno. It's clear to me now he can't get both into the team and playing well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
worked well enough against leeds, but then the manager changed the line-up and formation. we have 16 pl goals this season, 14 of which have generated an assist, with 7 of those going to pogba. plus when he nominally plays as a "wide forward" he basically plays as a 3rd midfielder, which helps us avoid being swamped in the middle (which happens almost every match, because we play fewer midfielders than the opposition).
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
He would be a great signing if we had a proper midfield behind him and didn’t have to carry him
—-
You should have finished here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume you haven’t read what Gary Neville said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What Gary Neville said doesn’t make any difference. Back then making up for Ronaldo’s deficiencies was minor considering his output. His output now is minor compared to then. And that is why we should not have brought him back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree he was a bad signing for Ole but that’s not to say with the right players behind him he can’t be a good signing under the next manager. Yes, we should have invested in a CM instead of Ronaldo. I think 99% of this board agree. But that doesn’t mean we can’t make the signing a success, even a short term one with a more balanced line up. Hopefully if/when Conte comes in he’ll set us up better and play to Ronaldo’s strengths and have the other 9 outfield players work harder with the reward of Ronaldos goals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree Robb but we don’t have the right players behind him. We don’t have the right players to suit Pogba either. And that was abundantly clear on Saturday. Neither player rated above four for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do think United struggle to get both Pogba and Bruno into the team, but that's probably because your midfield almost necessitates two of McTominay, Fred or Matic to give you that balance.
It just seems like an unbalanced squad still, especially in midfield and that's a key area, probably the area where you'd want the most balance as a lot of games in the PL especially are won/lost in the midfield due to the physicality of the league.
Sign in if you want to comment
Your problem is CR7
Page 2 of 5
posted on 18/10/21
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 4 minutes ago
I don't think he is the problem, I just don't think he was the solution in the summer. But when Ronaldo becomes available, how do you pass that opportunity up to sign somebody of that quality?
....................................
He was heading to City. If that happened, I mean Guardiola is about 8 levels about Ole, but we may as well have conceded we won't be challenging for the title. Now, these know it alls telling us we should not have got him. City would've gladly welcomed him en route to the title
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you referring to me as one of those "know-it-alls" saying that you shouldn't have signed him when I've actually said the opposite?
posted on 18/10/21
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 3 minutes ago
I don't think he is the problem, I just don't think he was the solution in the summer. But when Ronaldo becomes available, how do you pass that opportunity up to sign somebody of that quality?
....................................
He was heading to City. If that happened, I mean Guardiola is about 8 levels about Ole, but we may as well have conceded we won't be challenging for the title. Now, these know it alls telling us we should not have got him. City would've gladly welcomed him en route to the title
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i find the city move v hard to get my head around tbh
CR7 even in his prime was never a fraudiola type of player...now at 36 with no pressing and limited movement ...how the hell would he have played in a pep team ?
makes no sense
posted on 18/10/21
Our biggest problem is the lack of structure to our play. There’s no pattern to it. Players aren’t moving before their team mate receives the ball because they aren’t being coached properly.
The plan seems to be to give Pogba and Bruno the ball and hope they can find the runner, when really those runners should be moving before the ball reaches Pogba or Bruno.
It’s all very slow and the out ball is too often the long cross field pass to AWB or Shaw, which looks nice but ultimately is down to a tactical failure.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 2 minutes ago
He definitely limits you in some ways. You'd think a better manager could get around those issues but is it really worth it when his shelf life is likely only a season or two at most.
As an impact sub and someone to learn off for other players he'd probably make more sense right now under Ole. You've got an exciting, young front line that could play great, fast paced football but they need to be trusted and have the team built to their strengths
----------------------------------------------------------------------
as an impact sub i could have understood the move more
but CR7's ego would never allow himself to be a bench player at any club
posted on 18/10/21
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 3 minutes ago
I don't think he is the problem, I just don't think he was the solution in the summer. But when Ronaldo becomes available, how do you pass that opportunity up to sign somebody of that quality?
....................................
He was heading to City. If that happened, I mean Guardiola is about 8 levels about Ole, but we may as well have conceded we won't be challenging for the title. Now, these know it alls telling us we should not have got him. City would've gladly welcomed him en route to the title
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i find the city move v hard to get my head around tbh
CR7 even in his prime was never a fraudiola type of player...now at 36 with no pressing and limited movement ...how the hell would he have played in a pep team ?
makes no sense
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It made sense to Pep and believe you me it was happening. If Raheem Sterling can be part of Pep's squad, I am not sure sure why arguably the greatest scorer of all time cannot. Pep is the master at finding solutions to problems, so I find it bizarre why it makes no sense to you. Elite managers find solutions.
posted on 18/10/21
Ronaldo is there to score goals. I'm sure he's been told to stay up top, but whatever tactics Ole and his coaches are using are clearly not working. We are already one of the worst teams without the ball and I guess having Ronaldo there doesn't help but he's not the only issue. I don't think even a good holding midfielder would make a difference with the way team plays.
Just watch us without the the ball nobody bothers to try and win it back, its an easy ride to the defence for the opposing team, and if De Gea hadn't been back to his best, we would be leaking way more goals. I'm sorry but this is all coaching, none of the players know what to do to defend as a team. Its like school playground football where everyone wants to have individual glory for themselves. Never working hard when out of possession. Even Bruno doesn't press any more, when he first arrived he had a rocket up his ar$e. No discipline from the manager, all hugs and smiles and feel good. Don't worry boys you tried, pathetic. We're better off having no manager at all, doubt it would make much of a difference. Still get the same results with the individual quality we have.
posted on 18/10/21
He's got a massive problem with Ronaldo now. If he drops him or subs him there's hell on (remember the Everton game?), if he picks him we don't have a strategy to get the best out of him. This signing might be what actually does for Ole in the end if he can't work out the answer.
posted on 18/10/21
Hes a bit of a luxury, probably the best luxury out there and utd arent good enough to have a luxury player up top. Paul merson doesnt say much correct football wise but he said at start of season, ronaldo will score plenty of goals but against better sides it will be like utd are playing with 10 men. That appears to be the case thus far.
That being said your midfield is utterly appalling at times. I dont watch much utd but I watched your villareal game the other week and couldnt believe the ease with which your midfield was bypassed time and time and time again. Ive no idea if thats a personnel thing, a coaching thing or a bit of both but that the biggest issue at the minute. For a team who have title aspirations its nowhere near good enough.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 14 seconds ago
Ronaldo is there to score goals. I'm sure he's been told to stay up top, but whatever tactics Ole and his coaches are using are clearly not working. We are already one of the worst teams without the ball and I guess having Ronaldo there doesn't help but he's not the only issue. I don't think even a good holding midfielder would make a difference with the way team plays.
Just watch us without the the ball nobody bothers to try and win it back, its an easy ride to the defence for the opposing team, and if De Gea hadn't been back to his best, we would be leaking way more goals. I'm sorry but this is all coaching, none of the players know what to do to defend as a team. Its like school playground football where everyone wants to have individual glory for themselves. Never working hard when out of possession. Even Bruno doesn't press any more, when he first arrived he had a rocket up his ar$e. No discipline from the manager, all hugs and smiles and feel good. Don't worry boys you tried, pathetic. We're better off having no manager at all, doubt it would make much of a difference. Still get the same results with the individual quality we have.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can be a friendly/relaxed/calm manager and still get the team going in fairness. Klopp does it, Wenger did it etc. It's different styles but it worked wonders. On the flip side plenty of angry, shout in your face managers from Souness to Keane have flopped badly
With Ole he just clearly can't motivate particularly well but more than that hasn't successfully developed any sort of workable system
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, OOOOOOHHHHHH YAAAAAAA BEEEAAAUUUTTTYYYYY!!!!!!!!! (U1859)
posted 36 seconds ago
I watched your villareal game the other week and couldnt believe the ease with which your midfield was bypassed time and time and time again. Ive no idea if thats a personnel thing, a coaching thing or a bit of both but that the biggest issue at the minute.
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It's not just the Villareal game, it's most games.
It's a result of having to shoehorn Bruno and Pogba into the same team without any sort of quality around them in the middle to allow them to go off and do their own thing, with Sancho and Greenwood playing purely up front and Ronaldo doing what Ronaldo does. So you're left with McTominay, Fred or Matic, who are variously immobile or don't read the game that well, left to stick their finger in the dyke if an attack breaks down with five players left standing around up front.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by The Post Nearly Man. Ex Lion Tamer. (U1270)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, OOOOOOHHHHHH YAAAAAAA BEEEAAAUUUTTTYYYYY!!!!!!!!! (U1859)
posted 36 seconds ago
I watched your villareal game the other week and couldnt believe the ease with which your midfield was bypassed time and time and time again. Ive no idea if thats a personnel thing, a coaching thing or a bit of both but that the biggest issue at the minute.
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It's not just the Villareal game, it's most games.
It's a result of having to shoehorn Bruno and Pogba into the same team without any sort of quality around them in the middle to allow them to go off and do their own thing, with Sancho and Greenwood playing purely up front and Ronaldo doing what Ronaldo does. So you're left with McTominay, Fred or Matic, who are variously immobile or don't read the game that well, left to stick their finger in the dyke if an attack breaks down with five players left standing around up front.
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Fair enough mate as I say I cant say Ive seen much of you this season but if the villareal game was one of many then thats a huge concern.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, OOOOOOHHHHHH YAAAAAAA BEEEAAAUUUTTTYYYYY!!!!!!!!! (U1859)
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Fair enough mate as I say I cant say Ive seen much of you this season but if the villareal game was one of many then thats a huge concern.
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It's just the wrong shape for the players we've got, but the only shape he can play to get all the players he wants on the pitch. Bit of a shiiit paradox, really.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
He would be a great signing if we had a proper midfield behind him and didn’t have to carry him
—-
You should have finished here.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
He would be a great signing if we had a proper midfield behind him and didn’t have to carry him
—-
You should have finished here.
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I assume you haven’t read what Gary Neville said.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 57 minutes ago
You can have more than one problem in a team. Ronaldo has come into a team with existing problems, but he has exacerbated them. We weren't good at pressing, and now we have a player who is in the lowest percentile for pressing who will occupy a place in the side at the expense of a player who will run much more than him. We have a poor build-up structure and a poor / incoherent midfield that can't dominate possession and create lots of chances, and now we have a striker (apparently undroppable) who is good at finding pockets of space and finishing but not capable of creating something out of nothing or making lung-bursting runs to create gaps for others.
Without Ronaldo we'd still be held back by the absurd failure to recruit elite CMs, by the problem that you can only get the best out of Fernandes in a 4-2-3-1 and only the best out of Pogba in a 4-3-3, and by Solskjaer's shortcomings as a manager. But the recruitment of Sancho and Varane this summer at least gave us the option of having more dynamism, fluidity and strength in depth in attack, together with the opportunity to play a little bit further up the pitch. Having Ronaldo in the side undermines both of those. If he really were the goal-scoring monster who only needs one chance to score, then the trade-off would probably be worth it. But we've seen a few games already where it hasn't worked out that way (in addition to games where he scored but we were awful and should have lost anyway).
Put it another way, if we'd channelled that Ronaldo investment into a good DM (Soumaré was very good for Leicester on Saturday, recruited from Lille for just £17m, following the excellent purchases of Ndidi and Tielemans) I think we'd be in a better position right now.
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I was going to say pretty much this. I was even going to use the word exacerbated.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
He would be a great signing if we had a proper midfield behind him and didn’t have to carry him
—-
You should have finished here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume you haven’t read what Gary Neville said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What Gary Neville said doesn’t make any difference. Back then making up for Ronaldo’s deficiencies was minor considering his output. His output now is minor compared to then. And that is why we should not have brought him back.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
He would be a great signing if we had a proper midfield behind him and didn’t have to carry him
—-
You should have finished here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume you haven’t read what Gary Neville said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What Gary Neville said doesn’t make any difference. Back then making up for Ronaldo’s deficiencies was minor considering his output. His output now is minor compared to then. And that is why we should not have brought him back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree he was a bad signing for Ole but that’s not to say with the right players behind him he can’t be a good signing under the next manager. Yes, we should have invested in a CM instead of Ronaldo. I think 99% of this board agree. But that doesn’t mean we can’t make the signing a success, even a short term one with a more balanced line up. Hopefully if/when Conte comes in he’ll set us up better and play to Ronaldo’s strengths and have the other 9 outfield players work harder with the reward of Ronaldos goals.
posted on 18/10/21
If anyone here thinks that this team would've been doing any better without the signing of Ronaldo, I suggest you wake up
……
Why? I think that as a team we would be playing better with Cavani up front.
posted on 18/10/21
Is it just me who think that since we've signed Ronaldo we're actually crossing the ball into the box even less?
He's now a penalty box player so I think, if he is going to play, we should start playing to his strengths. Get it into the mixer and see where that takes us.
I think Ole needs to decide now on who to choose between Pogba and Bruno. It's clear to me now he can't get both into the team and playing well. If it were up to me I'd revert back to McFred (I know I know!) and get Bruno dropping a little deeper into the inside right channel at times to create an overload for the cross. Then play three forwards up top and not shoehorn Pogba in there.
For the Liverpool game I'd actually go (although Ronaldo is never getting 'dropped' with a midfield of McFred with Bruno just in front and then a forward three of Rashford, Cavani and Lingard. Each and every one of those will work hard and also there's enough quality there to do something when on the attack. The likes of Greenwood, Sancho, Pogba and Ronaldo would be subs.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 58 seconds ago
Is it just me who think that since we've signed Ronaldo we're actually crossing the ball into the box even less?
He's now a penalty box player so I think, if he is going to play, we should start playing to his strengths. Get it into the mixer and see where that takes us.
I think Ole needs to decide now on who to choose between Pogba and Bruno. It's clear to me now he can't get both into the team and playing well. If it were up to me I'd revert back to McFred (I know I know!) and get Bruno dropping a little deeper into the inside right channel at times to create an overload for the cross. Then play three forwards up top and not shoehorn Pogba in there.
For the Liverpool game I'd actually go (although Ronaldo is never getting 'dropped'with a midfield of McFred with Bruno just in front and then a forward three of Rashford, Cavani and Lingard. Each and every one of those will work hard and also there's enough quality there to do something when on the attack. The likes of Greenwood, Sancho, Pogba and Ronaldo would be subs.
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That sounds suspiciously like a different formation. I wouldn't hold your breath.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
He would be a great signing if we had a proper midfield behind him and didn’t have to carry him
—-
You should have finished here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume you haven’t read what Gary Neville said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What Gary Neville said doesn’t make any difference. Back then making up for Ronaldo’s deficiencies was minor considering his output. His output now is minor compared to then. And that is why we should not have brought him back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree he was a bad signing for Ole but that’s not to say with the right players behind him he can’t be a good signing under the next manager. Yes, we should have invested in a CM instead of Ronaldo. I think 99% of this board agree. But that doesn’t mean we can’t make the signing a success, even a short term one with a more balanced line up. Hopefully if/when Conte comes in he’ll set us up better and play to Ronaldo’s strengths and have the other 9 outfield players work harder with the reward of Ronaldos goals.
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I agree Robb but we don’t have the right players behind him. We don’t have the right players to suit Pogba either. And that was abundantly clear on Saturday. Neither player rated above four for me.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by The Post Nearly Man. Ex Lion Tamer. (U1270)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 58 seconds ago
Is it just me who think that since we've signed Ronaldo we're actually crossing the ball into the box even less?
He's now a penalty box player so I think, if he is going to play, we should start playing to his strengths. Get it into the mixer and see where that takes us.
I think Ole needs to decide now on who to choose between Pogba and Bruno. It's clear to me now he can't get both into the team and playing well. If it were up to me I'd revert back to McFred (I know I know!) and get Bruno dropping a little deeper into the inside right channel at times to create an overload for the cross. Then play three forwards up top and not shoehorn Pogba in there.
For the Liverpool game I'd actually go (although Ronaldo is never getting 'dropped'with a midfield of McFred with Bruno just in front and then a forward three of Rashford, Cavani and Lingard. Each and every one of those will work hard and also there's enough quality there to do something when on the attack. The likes of Greenwood, Sancho, Pogba and Ronaldo would be subs.
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That sounds suspiciously like a different formation. I wouldn't hold your breath.
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It's just a minor tweak really just to get Bruno a bit more involved on the right (could be the left as well) side of midfield. Get Lingard, Rashford and Cavani to do the pressing.
There was a reason Ole played Dan James in some of the bigger games. I think we realise now just how important hard work is (if we didn't before).
posted on 18/10/21
Just read an article on the Athletic (I know, I keep plugging that, but it's where I'm finding the best content these days) by Michael Cox, who is the best tactical analyst I've come across. It gives me no pleasure at all to report that he basically validates what I just wrote - but in a much more authoritative way. He describes in great detail how bad our structure is when we're out of possession, giving lots of examples of disorganised pressing and poor shape enabling Leicester to pass through us with relative ease. This is totally on the management - down to fairly basic coaching stuff combined with incoherent squad building (e.g. still being in a position where Pogba is playing in a two-man midfield).
Cox also makes the point that it was entirely foreseeable that Ronaldo would magnify this existing shortcoming. He notes that whenever Ronaldo has left a club, the strike partner has had a big uptick in goals the following season because he's not having to do so much unselfish running to build the side around Ronaldo. Points out that Fernandes is indeed doing more running but risks being unable to contribute as much when he gets on the ball as a result. Points out that Greenwood was starting the season as a centre forward and can't be expected to morph into Park Ji-Sung the moment he gets shifted to the wing. Points out that Sancho is a very attacking winger and used to playing in front of a Dortmund side that excelled at pressing. So we're a side that was particularly poorly prepared to accommodate and make the most of Ronaldo's talent, and his arrival really has exacerbated what was already an issue for us.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think Ole needs to decide now on who to choose between Pogba and Bruno. It's clear to me now he can't get both into the team and playing well.
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worked well enough against leeds, but then the manager changed the line-up and formation. we have 16 pl goals this season, 14 of which have generated an assist, with 7 of those going to pogba. plus when he nominally plays as a "wide forward" he basically plays as a 3rd midfielder, which helps us avoid being swamped in the middle (which happens almost every match, because we play fewer midfielders than the opposition).
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Conte (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
He would be a great signing if we had a proper midfield behind him and didn’t have to carry him
—-
You should have finished here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume you haven’t read what Gary Neville said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What Gary Neville said doesn’t make any difference. Back then making up for Ronaldo’s deficiencies was minor considering his output. His output now is minor compared to then. And that is why we should not have brought him back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree he was a bad signing for Ole but that’s not to say with the right players behind him he can’t be a good signing under the next manager. Yes, we should have invested in a CM instead of Ronaldo. I think 99% of this board agree. But that doesn’t mean we can’t make the signing a success, even a short term one with a more balanced line up. Hopefully if/when Conte comes in he’ll set us up better and play to Ronaldo’s strengths and have the other 9 outfield players work harder with the reward of Ronaldos goals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree Robb but we don’t have the right players behind him. We don’t have the right players to suit Pogba either. And that was abundantly clear on Saturday. Neither player rated above four for me.
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I do think United struggle to get both Pogba and Bruno into the team, but that's probably because your midfield almost necessitates two of McTominay, Fred or Matic to give you that balance.
It just seems like an unbalanced squad still, especially in midfield and that's a key area, probably the area where you'd want the most balance as a lot of games in the PL especially are won/lost in the midfield due to the physicality of the league.
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