I said at the start of the season there were question marks over every single one of Utd's signings this season and got laughed at a bit and yet here we are.
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
I said at the start of the season there were question marks over every single one of Utd's signings this season and got laughed at a bit and yet here we are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You told me that you highly rated Sancho, Hoody.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 15 minutes ago
If anyone here thinks that this team would've been doing any better without the signing of Ronaldo, I suggest you wake up
……
Why? I think that as a team we would be playing better with Cavani up front.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erm, the context of this conversation is people voicing concerns over Ronaldo so far this season! I am sure you are aware Cavani has not been available so far far this season. Your prerogative to think that, but I think otherwise
It would be nice if we played Sancho, our new right winger on … the right. Think he’s played there for an entire 10 mins this season
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think Ole needs to decide now on who to choose between Pogba and Bruno. It's clear to me now he can't get both into the team and playing well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
worked well enough against leeds, but then the manager changed the line-up and formation. we have 16 pl goals this season, 14 of which have generated an assist, with 7 of those going to pogba. plus when he nominally plays as a "wide forward" he basically plays as a 3rd midfielder, which helps us avoid being swamped in the middle (which happens almost every match, because we play fewer midfielders than the opposition).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it worked well against Leeds to be fair but since then I don't think it has. I just don't think we have the sitting player, nor the coach, to get Bruno and Pogba playing in a midfield two or three. I wish I'd be proven wrong though!
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just read an article on the Athletic (I know, I keep plugging that, but it's where I'm finding the best content these days) by Michael Cox, who is the best tactical analyst I've come across. It gives me no pleasure at all to report that he basically validates what I just wrote - but in a much more authoritative way. He describes in great detail how bad our structure is when we're out of possession, giving lots of examples of disorganised pressing and poor shape enabling Leicester to pass through us with relative ease. This is totally on the management - down to fairly basic coaching stuff combined with incoherent squad building (e.g. still being in a position where Pogba is playing in a two-man midfield).
Cox also makes the point that it was entirely foreseeable that Ronaldo would magnify this existing shortcoming. He notes that whenever Ronaldo has left a club, the strike partner has had a big uptick in goals the following season because he's not having to do so much unselfish running to build the side around Ronaldo. Points out that Fernandes is indeed doing more running but risks being unable to contribute as much when he gets on the ball as a result. Points out that Greenwood was starting the season as a centre forward and can't be expected to morph into Park Ji-Sung the moment he gets shifted to the wing. Points out that Sancho is a very attacking winger and used to playing in front of a Dortmund side that excelled at pressing. So we're a side that was particularly poorly prepared to accommodate and make the most of Ronaldo's talent, and his arrival really has exacerbated what was already an issue for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could see all this when we were being linked with him and said so on here. Why people who should be much more knowledgeable than me at football (our manager and coaches) couldn’t see it is staggering.
I think Ronaldo being at the club for a year and a half may well put off some potential Ole replacements.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 43 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just read an article on the Athletic (I know, I keep plugging that, but it's where I'm finding the best content these days) by Michael Cox, who is the best tactical analyst I've come across. It gives me no pleasure at all to report that he basically validates what I just wrote - but in a much more authoritative way. He describes in great detail how bad our structure is when we're out of possession, giving lots of examples of disorganised pressing and poor shape enabling Leicester to pass through us with relative ease. This is totally on the management - down to fairly basic coaching stuff combined with incoherent squad building (e.g. still being in a position where Pogba is playing in a two-man midfield).
Cox also makes the point that it was entirely foreseeable that Ronaldo would magnify this existing shortcoming. He notes that whenever Ronaldo has left a club, the strike partner has had a big uptick in goals the following season because he's not having to do so much unselfish running to build the side around Ronaldo. Points out that Fernandes is indeed doing more running but risks being unable to contribute as much when he gets on the ball as a result. Points out that Greenwood was starting the season as a centre forward and can't be expected to morph into Park Ji-Sung the moment he gets shifted to the wing. Points out that Sancho is a very attacking winger and used to playing in front of a Dortmund side that excelled at pressing. So we're a side that was particularly poorly prepared to accommodate and make the most of Ronaldo's talent, and his arrival really has exacerbated what was already an issue for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could see all this when we were being linked with him and said so on here. Why people who should be much more knowledgeable than me at football (our manager and coaches) couldn’t see it is staggering.
I think Ronaldo being at the club for a year and a half may well put off some potential Ole replacements.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What I do find incredibly baffling though is, after actually buying Ronaldo, we're not actually getting the ball into the box for him and aren't really busting a gut to get in there with him either. For all Ronaldo's negative points in terms of pressing etc he'll still attract defenders when in and around the box. The state may tell a different story of course but my eyes tell me we're getting the ball into the box even less now. At least play to his strengths ffs and stop pu$$y-footing around!
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
I just don't think we have the sitting player, nor the coach, to get Bruno and Pogba playing in a midfield two or three.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
we certainly don't have that player at the club now, and it's almost certainly true we don't have the manager. bear in mind though that against leeds pogba nominally played in the group of 3 forwards, ahead of mcfred. based on this season if it is a straight choice between pogba (7 assists) and sancho (0 goals, 0 assists) for that left-sided role, it isn't much of a decision.
in fact, across this season and last, when pogba has played as a "left midfielder/forward", ie broadly equivalent to his juve role (just with a sh!tter supporting cast), he has 2 goals and 10 assists in 18 appearances.
his 5 assists in the opening 2 pl games was a pl record, but his reward for that was to be shunted back into a midfield two, from where he has played roughly half his games since.
Erm, the context of this conversation is people voicing concerns over Ronaldo so far this season
……
My concern is for the whole season.
Before Ronaldo we defended poorly as a team. With Ronaldo we defend even worse as a team.
This is what I see.
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
I just don't think we have the sitting player, nor the coach, to get Bruno and Pogba playing in a midfield two or three.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
we certainly don't have that player at the club now, and it's almost certainly true we don't have the manager. bear in mind though that against leeds pogba nominally played in the group of 3 forwards, ahead of mcfred. based on this season if it is a straight choice between pogba (7 assists) and sancho (0 goals, 0 assists) for that left-sided role, it isn't much of a decision.
in fact, across this season and last, when pogba has played as a "left midfielder/forward", ie broadly equivalent to his juve role (just with a sh!tter supporting cast), he has 2 goals and 10 assists in 18 appearances.
his 5 assists in the opening 2 pl games was a pl record, but his reward for that was to be shunted back into a midfield two, from where he has played roughly half his games since.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which do you choose between him and Bruno, or can you think of a way to accomodate both?
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just read an article on the Athletic (I know, I keep plugging that, but it's where I'm finding the best content these days) by Michael Cox, who is the best tactical analyst I've come across. It gives me no pleasure at all to report that he basically validates what I just wrote - but in a much more authoritative way. He describes in great detail how bad our structure is when we're out of possession, giving lots of examples of disorganised pressing and poor shape enabling Leicester to pass through us with relative ease. This is totally on the management - down to fairly basic coaching stuff combined with incoherent squad building (e.g. still being in a position where Pogba is playing in a two-man midfield).
Cox also makes the point that it was entirely foreseeable that Ronaldo would magnify this existing shortcoming. He notes that whenever Ronaldo has left a club, the strike partner has had a big uptick in goals the following season because he's not having to do so much unselfish running to build the side around Ronaldo. Points out that Fernandes is indeed doing more running but risks being unable to contribute as much when he gets on the ball as a result. Points out that Greenwood was starting the season as a centre forward and can't be expected to morph into Park Ji-Sung the moment he gets shifted to the wing. Points out that Sancho is a very attacking winger and used to playing in front of a Dortmund side that excelled at pressing. So we're a side that was particularly poorly prepared to accommodate and make the most of Ronaldo's talent, and his arrival really has exacerbated what was already an issue for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could see all this when we were being linked with him and said so on here. Why people who should be much more knowledgeable than me at football (our manager and coaches) couldn’t see it is staggering.
I think Ronaldo being at the club for a year and a half may well put off some potential Ole replacements.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not going to put off Zidane I tell you that. An elite manager like Conte I also do not see being put off by working with an elite player. Pep wanted to work with this player, so I question any manager put off by us having Ronaldo. A mediocre manager unable to find solutions to a problem does not mean elite managers out there are not going to take the fantastic job that is being manager of Manchester United.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
Erm, the context of this conversation is people voicing concerns over Ronaldo so far this season
……
My concern is for the whole season.
Before Ronaldo we defended poorly as a team. With Ronaldo we defend even worse as a team.
This is what I see.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough. My response was about so far this season. Cavani has either not been available or not fit enough. Rasshford has been out and Martial is well Martial. With only Sancho, Maguire looking so poor, I would go as far as say we would be in a worse position right now.
I actually think Ole might leave out Ronaldo in the next game or two. He might not be Klopp or Guardiola but neither is he a complete idiot - I’m sure he’ll have had some of the same reservations about signing Ronaldo and from his point of view he might see, rightly or wrongly, Ronaldo’s inclusion as the main reason why we look worse than last season.
When he said after the game that ‘something has to give’, I wondered then if he was thinking about dropping a big name, maybe Ronaldo.
comment by The Post Nearly Man. Ex Lion Tamer. (U1270)
posted 2 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which do you choose between him and Bruno, or can you think of a way to accomodate both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well, against leeds and southampton, we didn't need to choose. of course one reason pogba gets stuck in a midfield two is not because he doesn't contribute further forward, but because our other midfielders are rubbish, so the theory is that pogba in midfield plus sancho/rashford on the pitch is better than mcfred taking up two spots.
one question i guess should be - if ronaldo plays all the time, do we a) want other players who can chip in with goals, or b) people to feed ronaldo (and greenwood, who is basically a 2nd striker rather than a genuine wide forward).
pogba is more creative, and a better passer, than bruno, which is one reason why bruno has 1 assist in his last 23 pl games (2 if you really want to count saturday). and the same question applies to bruno - now that we have 2 proper goalscorers in ronaldo and cavani, and a wide forward in greenwood who is more a scorer than a creator, do you want bruno in the team to score goals, or to create goals. if the answer is to create, then he can do that as much from midfield as from a more forward position.
i can say that for someone labelled as inconsistent, pogba's productivity when played further forward over the last season and a bit is on a par with bruno and rashford, and miles ahead of greenwood and sancho.
his 5 assists in the opening 2 pl games was a pl record, but his reward for that was to be shunted back into a midfield two, from where he has played roughly half his games since.
---------------------------------------------------------------
This comes from having an incoherent squad. If we want to get the most out of Bruno (our most productive attacker) he needs to play as a 10, which means we have to play two in midfield. You can't get the most out of Pogba (our most creative player) in a double pivot. If Pogba plays on the left, we have a ridiculous amount of talent (and % of wage bill) sitting on the bench. If Ronaldo plays, this exacerbates the same problem of not being able to accommodate enough of the forwards - shifting Greenwood to the right (because we need his goals), which in turn takes Sancho out of the position where he can create the most chances, while requiring everyone to do more selfless running to cover for his immobility.
Solskjaer hasn't done himself any favours tactically and on the coaching fields lately, and I'm sure some coaches would find better solutions. But these would be tactically paradoxes with any coach, and I think the ultimate way that a new coach could solve the problem would be by dropping at least one of the undroppable players.
From the same Michael Cox article I paraphrased above:
"Solskjaer feels like a Galactico-era Real Madrid manager, compelled to start certain players because of their reputation, and largely in a job because he’s happy to placate them rather than make tough tactical decisions. Omitting Ronaldo or Fernandes feels impossible, he can’t be seen to be wasting the £73 million Sancho, Greenwood deserves to start based on form and Pogba started the season brilliantly. But these five can’t play together."
I actually think Ole might leave out Ronaldo in the next game or two. He might not be Klopp or Guardiola but neither is he a complete idiot
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
He is an complete idiot. He has refused to make basic changes like not upgrade from McFred, AWB, employ stupid idiots as his staff and make same mistakes as he did in 2019.
Scholay
Ronaldo is not an elite player any more. He is 36 and is only going to decline more from here.
Yes he will score goals, that never goes away, but the rest of his game is now poor. Especially for the PL.
Jonny Evans easily handled him on Saturday.
We have plenty of money. Could we not consult a manager to see what they would do with this United squad and how they would set a team up? We don't need to hire them full time, just like a week of their time on zoom calls to ask them how to do tactics and shape etc? Could record the calls so Ole doesn't have to take notes there and then so can fully concentrate on listening to the tactics?
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
Scholay
Ronaldo is not an elite player any more. He is 36 and is only going to decline more from here.
Yes he will score goals, that never goes away, but the rest of his game is now poor. Especially for the PL.
Jonny Evans easily handled him on Saturday.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only go by what he did last year VC, wherein he outscored 98 million quid player Lukaku. If he goes on to bang 25/30 goals this season, I am sorry that is an elite player still playing football.
Ronaldo had a couple of chances on Saturday. A shot that was too close to the keeper and a nice ball that he didn't quite latch on to. Neither were disgraceful failures. But the calculus that justifies deploying Ronaldo at 36 is that it's worth sacrificing the movement that a more dynamic player would give you because he's a world class finisher: we'll create less chances, but he'll score so many of the ones that come his way, it will be a net gain. The jury is very much out on that.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
I said at the start of the season there were question marks over every single one of Utd's signings this season and got laughed at a bit and yet here we are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You told me that you highly rated Sancho, Hoody.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do and still do, but there are definite question marks over anyone from Germany really. Very rare the same numbers are posted over here.
He'll work out just fine though. Ronaldo and Varane not so much I suspect.
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
I said at the start of the season there were question marks over every single one of Utd's signings this season and got laughed at a bit and yet here we are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You told me that you highly rated Sancho, Hoody.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do and still do, but there are definite question marks over anyone from Germany really. Very rare the same numbers are posted over here.
He'll work out just fine though. Ronaldo and Varane not so much I suspect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd like to see a three of Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho. Probably not the right time for it just yet, but that's got the potential to be fluid, clever in posession and lethal on the break. Might be pie in the sky but I'd love to see it tried out.
I am not surprised at some of these takes but I am actually very surprised with VC here. Contrary to our regular spats, I will admit you know football a bit. My concern here this manager has now got fans like yourself questioning why we signed RONALDO!!!
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
I said at the start of the season there were question marks over every single one of Utd's signings this season and got laughed at a bit and yet here we are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You told me that you highly rated Sancho, Hoody.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do and still do, but there are definite question marks over anyone from Germany really. Very rare the same numbers are posted over here.
He'll work out just fine though. Ronaldo and Varane not so much I suspect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the question mark is more on whether he's the right fit for this Utd side, certainly under the current management anyway.
"I will admit you know football a bit"
That's you damned with faint praise, VC
Sign in if you want to comment
Your problem is CR7
Page 3 of 5
posted on 18/10/21
I said at the start of the season there were question marks over every single one of Utd's signings this season and got laughed at a bit and yet here we are.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
I said at the start of the season there were question marks over every single one of Utd's signings this season and got laughed at a bit and yet here we are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You told me that you highly rated Sancho, Hoody.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 15 minutes ago
If anyone here thinks that this team would've been doing any better without the signing of Ronaldo, I suggest you wake up
……
Why? I think that as a team we would be playing better with Cavani up front.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erm, the context of this conversation is people voicing concerns over Ronaldo so far this season! I am sure you are aware Cavani has not been available so far far this season. Your prerogative to think that, but I think otherwise
posted on 18/10/21
It would be nice if we played Sancho, our new right winger on … the right. Think he’s played there for an entire 10 mins this season
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think Ole needs to decide now on who to choose between Pogba and Bruno. It's clear to me now he can't get both into the team and playing well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
worked well enough against leeds, but then the manager changed the line-up and formation. we have 16 pl goals this season, 14 of which have generated an assist, with 7 of those going to pogba. plus when he nominally plays as a "wide forward" he basically plays as a 3rd midfielder, which helps us avoid being swamped in the middle (which happens almost every match, because we play fewer midfielders than the opposition).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it worked well against Leeds to be fair but since then I don't think it has. I just don't think we have the sitting player, nor the coach, to get Bruno and Pogba playing in a midfield two or three. I wish I'd be proven wrong though!
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just read an article on the Athletic (I know, I keep plugging that, but it's where I'm finding the best content these days) by Michael Cox, who is the best tactical analyst I've come across. It gives me no pleasure at all to report that he basically validates what I just wrote - but in a much more authoritative way. He describes in great detail how bad our structure is when we're out of possession, giving lots of examples of disorganised pressing and poor shape enabling Leicester to pass through us with relative ease. This is totally on the management - down to fairly basic coaching stuff combined with incoherent squad building (e.g. still being in a position where Pogba is playing in a two-man midfield).
Cox also makes the point that it was entirely foreseeable that Ronaldo would magnify this existing shortcoming. He notes that whenever Ronaldo has left a club, the strike partner has had a big uptick in goals the following season because he's not having to do so much unselfish running to build the side around Ronaldo. Points out that Fernandes is indeed doing more running but risks being unable to contribute as much when he gets on the ball as a result. Points out that Greenwood was starting the season as a centre forward and can't be expected to morph into Park Ji-Sung the moment he gets shifted to the wing. Points out that Sancho is a very attacking winger and used to playing in front of a Dortmund side that excelled at pressing. So we're a side that was particularly poorly prepared to accommodate and make the most of Ronaldo's talent, and his arrival really has exacerbated what was already an issue for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could see all this when we were being linked with him and said so on here. Why people who should be much more knowledgeable than me at football (our manager and coaches) couldn’t see it is staggering.
I think Ronaldo being at the club for a year and a half may well put off some potential Ole replacements.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 43 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just read an article on the Athletic (I know, I keep plugging that, but it's where I'm finding the best content these days) by Michael Cox, who is the best tactical analyst I've come across. It gives me no pleasure at all to report that he basically validates what I just wrote - but in a much more authoritative way. He describes in great detail how bad our structure is when we're out of possession, giving lots of examples of disorganised pressing and poor shape enabling Leicester to pass through us with relative ease. This is totally on the management - down to fairly basic coaching stuff combined with incoherent squad building (e.g. still being in a position where Pogba is playing in a two-man midfield).
Cox also makes the point that it was entirely foreseeable that Ronaldo would magnify this existing shortcoming. He notes that whenever Ronaldo has left a club, the strike partner has had a big uptick in goals the following season because he's not having to do so much unselfish running to build the side around Ronaldo. Points out that Fernandes is indeed doing more running but risks being unable to contribute as much when he gets on the ball as a result. Points out that Greenwood was starting the season as a centre forward and can't be expected to morph into Park Ji-Sung the moment he gets shifted to the wing. Points out that Sancho is a very attacking winger and used to playing in front of a Dortmund side that excelled at pressing. So we're a side that was particularly poorly prepared to accommodate and make the most of Ronaldo's talent, and his arrival really has exacerbated what was already an issue for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could see all this when we were being linked with him and said so on here. Why people who should be much more knowledgeable than me at football (our manager and coaches) couldn’t see it is staggering.
I think Ronaldo being at the club for a year and a half may well put off some potential Ole replacements.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What I do find incredibly baffling though is, after actually buying Ronaldo, we're not actually getting the ball into the box for him and aren't really busting a gut to get in there with him either. For all Ronaldo's negative points in terms of pressing etc he'll still attract defenders when in and around the box. The state may tell a different story of course but my eyes tell me we're getting the ball into the box even less now. At least play to his strengths ffs and stop pu$$y-footing around!
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
I just don't think we have the sitting player, nor the coach, to get Bruno and Pogba playing in a midfield two or three.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
we certainly don't have that player at the club now, and it's almost certainly true we don't have the manager. bear in mind though that against leeds pogba nominally played in the group of 3 forwards, ahead of mcfred. based on this season if it is a straight choice between pogba (7 assists) and sancho (0 goals, 0 assists) for that left-sided role, it isn't much of a decision.
in fact, across this season and last, when pogba has played as a "left midfielder/forward", ie broadly equivalent to his juve role (just with a sh!tter supporting cast), he has 2 goals and 10 assists in 18 appearances.
his 5 assists in the opening 2 pl games was a pl record, but his reward for that was to be shunted back into a midfield two, from where he has played roughly half his games since.
posted on 18/10/21
Erm, the context of this conversation is people voicing concerns over Ronaldo so far this season
……
My concern is for the whole season.
Before Ronaldo we defended poorly as a team. With Ronaldo we defend even worse as a team.
This is what I see.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
I just don't think we have the sitting player, nor the coach, to get Bruno and Pogba playing in a midfield two or three.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
we certainly don't have that player at the club now, and it's almost certainly true we don't have the manager. bear in mind though that against leeds pogba nominally played in the group of 3 forwards, ahead of mcfred. based on this season if it is a straight choice between pogba (7 assists) and sancho (0 goals, 0 assists) for that left-sided role, it isn't much of a decision.
in fact, across this season and last, when pogba has played as a "left midfielder/forward", ie broadly equivalent to his juve role (just with a sh!tter supporting cast), he has 2 goals and 10 assists in 18 appearances.
his 5 assists in the opening 2 pl games was a pl record, but his reward for that was to be shunted back into a midfield two, from where he has played roughly half his games since.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which do you choose between him and Bruno, or can you think of a way to accomodate both?
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just read an article on the Athletic (I know, I keep plugging that, but it's where I'm finding the best content these days) by Michael Cox, who is the best tactical analyst I've come across. It gives me no pleasure at all to report that he basically validates what I just wrote - but in a much more authoritative way. He describes in great detail how bad our structure is when we're out of possession, giving lots of examples of disorganised pressing and poor shape enabling Leicester to pass through us with relative ease. This is totally on the management - down to fairly basic coaching stuff combined with incoherent squad building (e.g. still being in a position where Pogba is playing in a two-man midfield).
Cox also makes the point that it was entirely foreseeable that Ronaldo would magnify this existing shortcoming. He notes that whenever Ronaldo has left a club, the strike partner has had a big uptick in goals the following season because he's not having to do so much unselfish running to build the side around Ronaldo. Points out that Fernandes is indeed doing more running but risks being unable to contribute as much when he gets on the ball as a result. Points out that Greenwood was starting the season as a centre forward and can't be expected to morph into Park Ji-Sung the moment he gets shifted to the wing. Points out that Sancho is a very attacking winger and used to playing in front of a Dortmund side that excelled at pressing. So we're a side that was particularly poorly prepared to accommodate and make the most of Ronaldo's talent, and his arrival really has exacerbated what was already an issue for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could see all this when we were being linked with him and said so on here. Why people who should be much more knowledgeable than me at football (our manager and coaches) couldn’t see it is staggering.
I think Ronaldo being at the club for a year and a half may well put off some potential Ole replacements.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not going to put off Zidane I tell you that. An elite manager like Conte I also do not see being put off by working with an elite player. Pep wanted to work with this player, so I question any manager put off by us having Ronaldo. A mediocre manager unable to find solutions to a problem does not mean elite managers out there are not going to take the fantastic job that is being manager of Manchester United.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
Erm, the context of this conversation is people voicing concerns over Ronaldo so far this season
……
My concern is for the whole season.
Before Ronaldo we defended poorly as a team. With Ronaldo we defend even worse as a team.
This is what I see.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough. My response was about so far this season. Cavani has either not been available or not fit enough. Rasshford has been out and Martial is well Martial. With only Sancho, Maguire looking so poor, I would go as far as say we would be in a worse position right now.
posted on 18/10/21
I actually think Ole might leave out Ronaldo in the next game or two. He might not be Klopp or Guardiola but neither is he a complete idiot - I’m sure he’ll have had some of the same reservations about signing Ronaldo and from his point of view he might see, rightly or wrongly, Ronaldo’s inclusion as the main reason why we look worse than last season.
When he said after the game that ‘something has to give’, I wondered then if he was thinking about dropping a big name, maybe Ronaldo.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by The Post Nearly Man. Ex Lion Tamer. (U1270)
posted 2 minutes ago
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Which do you choose between him and Bruno, or can you think of a way to accomodate both?
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well, against leeds and southampton, we didn't need to choose. of course one reason pogba gets stuck in a midfield two is not because he doesn't contribute further forward, but because our other midfielders are rubbish, so the theory is that pogba in midfield plus sancho/rashford on the pitch is better than mcfred taking up two spots.
one question i guess should be - if ronaldo plays all the time, do we a) want other players who can chip in with goals, or b) people to feed ronaldo (and greenwood, who is basically a 2nd striker rather than a genuine wide forward).
pogba is more creative, and a better passer, than bruno, which is one reason why bruno has 1 assist in his last 23 pl games (2 if you really want to count saturday). and the same question applies to bruno - now that we have 2 proper goalscorers in ronaldo and cavani, and a wide forward in greenwood who is more a scorer than a creator, do you want bruno in the team to score goals, or to create goals. if the answer is to create, then he can do that as much from midfield as from a more forward position.
i can say that for someone labelled as inconsistent, pogba's productivity when played further forward over the last season and a bit is on a par with bruno and rashford, and miles ahead of greenwood and sancho.
posted on 18/10/21
his 5 assists in the opening 2 pl games was a pl record, but his reward for that was to be shunted back into a midfield two, from where he has played roughly half his games since.
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This comes from having an incoherent squad. If we want to get the most out of Bruno (our most productive attacker) he needs to play as a 10, which means we have to play two in midfield. You can't get the most out of Pogba (our most creative player) in a double pivot. If Pogba plays on the left, we have a ridiculous amount of talent (and % of wage bill) sitting on the bench. If Ronaldo plays, this exacerbates the same problem of not being able to accommodate enough of the forwards - shifting Greenwood to the right (because we need his goals), which in turn takes Sancho out of the position where he can create the most chances, while requiring everyone to do more selfless running to cover for his immobility.
Solskjaer hasn't done himself any favours tactically and on the coaching fields lately, and I'm sure some coaches would find better solutions. But these would be tactically paradoxes with any coach, and I think the ultimate way that a new coach could solve the problem would be by dropping at least one of the undroppable players.
From the same Michael Cox article I paraphrased above:
"Solskjaer feels like a Galactico-era Real Madrid manager, compelled to start certain players because of their reputation, and largely in a job because he’s happy to placate them rather than make tough tactical decisions. Omitting Ronaldo or Fernandes feels impossible, he can’t be seen to be wasting the £73 million Sancho, Greenwood deserves to start based on form and Pogba started the season brilliantly. But these five can’t play together."
posted on 18/10/21
I actually think Ole might leave out Ronaldo in the next game or two. He might not be Klopp or Guardiola but neither is he a complete idiot
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He is an complete idiot. He has refused to make basic changes like not upgrade from McFred, AWB, employ stupid idiots as his staff and make same mistakes as he did in 2019.
posted on 18/10/21
Scholay
Ronaldo is not an elite player any more. He is 36 and is only going to decline more from here.
Yes he will score goals, that never goes away, but the rest of his game is now poor. Especially for the PL.
Jonny Evans easily handled him on Saturday.
posted on 18/10/21
We have plenty of money. Could we not consult a manager to see what they would do with this United squad and how they would set a team up? We don't need to hire them full time, just like a week of their time on zoom calls to ask them how to do tactics and shape etc? Could record the calls so Ole doesn't have to take notes there and then so can fully concentrate on listening to the tactics?
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
Scholay
Ronaldo is not an elite player any more. He is 36 and is only going to decline more from here.
Yes he will score goals, that never goes away, but the rest of his game is now poor. Especially for the PL.
Jonny Evans easily handled him on Saturday.
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I can only go by what he did last year VC, wherein he outscored 98 million quid player Lukaku. If he goes on to bang 25/30 goals this season, I am sorry that is an elite player still playing football.
posted on 18/10/21
Ronaldo had a couple of chances on Saturday. A shot that was too close to the keeper and a nice ball that he didn't quite latch on to. Neither were disgraceful failures. But the calculus that justifies deploying Ronaldo at 36 is that it's worth sacrificing the movement that a more dynamic player would give you because he's a world class finisher: we'll create less chances, but he'll score so many of the ones that come his way, it will be a net gain. The jury is very much out on that.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
I said at the start of the season there were question marks over every single one of Utd's signings this season and got laughed at a bit and yet here we are.
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You told me that you highly rated Sancho, Hoody.
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I do and still do, but there are definite question marks over anyone from Germany really. Very rare the same numbers are posted over here.
He'll work out just fine though. Ronaldo and Varane not so much I suspect.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
I said at the start of the season there were question marks over every single one of Utd's signings this season and got laughed at a bit and yet here we are.
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You told me that you highly rated Sancho, Hoody.
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I do and still do, but there are definite question marks over anyone from Germany really. Very rare the same numbers are posted over here.
He'll work out just fine though. Ronaldo and Varane not so much I suspect.
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I'd like to see a three of Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho. Probably not the right time for it just yet, but that's got the potential to be fluid, clever in posession and lethal on the break. Might be pie in the sky but I'd love to see it tried out.
posted on 18/10/21
I am not surprised at some of these takes but I am actually very surprised with VC here. Contrary to our regular spats, I will admit you know football a bit. My concern here this manager has now got fans like yourself questioning why we signed RONALDO!!!
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
I said at the start of the season there were question marks over every single one of Utd's signings this season and got laughed at a bit and yet here we are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You told me that you highly rated Sancho, Hoody.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do and still do, but there are definite question marks over anyone from Germany really. Very rare the same numbers are posted over here.
He'll work out just fine though. Ronaldo and Varane not so much I suspect.
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I think the question mark is more on whether he's the right fit for this Utd side, certainly under the current management anyway.
posted on 18/10/21
"I will admit you know football a bit"
That's you damned with faint praise, VC
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