comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 23 minutes ago
You watch. I reckon the derby game against Arsenal will be sobering for us. We'll realise how far we've regressed when we end up with 30% possession at home against our biggest rivals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In the big games it's the results that matter.
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That's where we differ Dev. I don't believe that for a second. I'd be annoyed losing a game but if we dominated and had plenty of chances, I'd be happy with the performance and the progression. You could see where progress was being made. Scraping a 1-0 win when Lloris has had to be on world class form or the post and crossbar has helped us out might see us get three points but it would paper over the cracks.
For me it's ALL about the performance. Get that right and the results over time improve. Focusing entirely on the result doesn't set you up for long term success as you end up altering the way you play throughout a match just to get the result. Often when we lost under Poch, you'd watch the highlights and see we had a hatful of chances but on the day just couldn't take them. That's a far better barometer for a squads level than any one isolated result.
A lot of lazy pundits will say "it's a good sign when you're picking up points if you're playing badly". No it's not. It's a sign that you got lucky and it'll likely run out if you keep it up. The sign of true champions is winning games by dominating them, not riding your luck.
I'd have no problem losing to Arsenal if I thought I could see a major breakthrough in the way that we were playing and ended up losing but dominating the game.
Your argument only applies in cup finals for me.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 8 minutes ago
Arsenal are not far better than us, what nonesense.
They're a bit better right now and in reasonable form.
We've stuttered and need to get going again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I say that, I'm not just talking about individual talent. I think it's fair to see that it would be a pretty equal split when it came to making up an 11 of both teams. I'm talking more about philosophy. Something has clicked over there and they're now all singing from the same hymn sheet. They're dominating games more than they used to and they're getting results because of it.
Ask yourself this - with a full first team squad involved do you think Arsenal would have been torn apart by Middlesborough the way we were? Do you think they'd have played 3 at the back and 2 holding? Not. A. Chance.
We have a stale squad with an uninspired, cautious style. That's why there's a chasm between the two teams.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 27 minutes ago
People keep talking about this one game a week stuff benefiting Arsenal hugely. Regardless of whether that's true or not, no-one, including Arsenal fans, would have had us 4th with 3 games in hand in March at the start of the season. If anyone had suggested this, they'd have been publicly ridiculed.
I know it must burn some of you to give us our flowers, but we do actually have some decent players you know. That's why we're currently in the position we're in.
Saying we're there because we only play 1 game a week is lazy analysis. Otherwise why don't loads of other teams who play 1 game a week compete for 4th?
And no, this does not mean we will get 4th. I've said several times I'm sceptical of our chances. But if we can't be taken seriously as a legitimate top-4 contender now, then we never will.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not everyone is saying that to be fair. Personally I've been saying that Arsenal are a lot better than us Spurs fans and the likes of Gary Neville and Roy Keane are giving them credit for. Your defence is beginning to click, you now have a top class keeper and you've also got a number of bright young talents emerging like Saka, Smith Rowe and Martinelli. Then there's the shrewd signings like Odergaard and another youngster whose name escapes me who's supposed to be huge (think he played in the Forest game).
For me it's about trajectory. You're heading upwards and we're going the other way. Maybe it comes from my desire to see football played the right way where your plan is to win by playing football not waiting for the opposition to make a mistake before pouncing. I hate the counter attacking style we've become accustomed to. Poch had us playing a way that never changed whoever we played. It was about controlling the game. Arteta is doing the same thing. That's how you truly build.
Arsenal are far better than us. Even when we beat you, there's the knowledge that you might have had more possession and more shots on goal. I'm not happy with just the result. I want to see the progress on the pitch, not on the table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal are currently a few points in front in the table. But to say they are a lot better than Spurs is not true. They have beaten lots of bottom of the table teams in the past couple of months. You are making out like that they are peak Barcelona and are on an unstoppable roll. They have a very average squad, so let`s not get to carried away. And I would expect Spurs to be beating them in front of a full WHL when they meet.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 8 minutes ago
Arsenal are not far better than us, what nonesense.
They're a bit better right now and in reasonable form.
We've stuttered and need to get going again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I say that, I'm not just talking about individual talent. I think it's fair to see that it would be a pretty equal split when it came to making up an 11 of both teams. I'm talking more about philosophy. Something has clicked over there and they're now all singing from the same hymn sheet. They're dominating games more than they used to and they're getting results because of it.
Ask yourself this - with a full first team squad involved do you think Arsenal would have been torn apart by Middlesborough the way we were? Do you think they'd have played 3 at the back and 2 holding? Not. A. Chance.
We have a stale squad with an uninspired, cautious style. That's why there's a chasm between the two teams.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal lost to Nottm Forest a few weeks back in the FA Cup, a team of similar quality to Middlesborough.
fridgeboy,
My comment wasn't directed toward you, but to some of the other nonsense I've been reading on here.
A lot of people always seems to put in caveats when they talk about us. And our games against the top-6 aren't that important if we continue what we've been doing and getting results against the other sides. Which Spurs and Man United haven't been doing.
It's all well and good beating City x2, but what's the point if you're then losing to Burnley, Wolves, Southampton etc?
I wouldn't say we're far better than you, but I do prefer most of our players to yours, aside from the obvious 2. Although I have liked the look of Kulusevski and I think Skipp is very talented.
However, we have a young squad - newly assembled for the most part - and many have not been in a position where the pressure is on us to get top-4.
That has/soon will change and I want to see whether we cower under the pressure, like we did in some of Wenger's latter years and during Emery's tenure, or whether we'll rise to the occasion and get the job done.
I do personally think we have a mentally stronger side than teams we've had in the past, but they have to prove it on the pitch.
The race for CL football is by no means over. Not by a long shot.
I’m with fridgeboy on this one. Arsenal are definitely better than us at the minute. You only have to look at the way the two teams play. Arsenal are starting to play a dynamic, attacking game, whereas we are cautious. Our style of football is awful to watch, and we’re a poor passing team.
It’s not just a few points or results. I want us to start controlling games and asserting ourselves, not to watch this awful defensive counter attacking. I’m happy for us to play that way against City and Liverpool (possibly also Chelsea), who, let’s face it are light years ahead of the rest, but we should be taking the game to other teams.
We’ve been played off the park by Southampton, Wolves, Burnley and fecking Boro in recent weeks snd it’s dreadful to watch.
I think we are better than you at the moment (and league table obviously shows that too), but I don't think the gap is insurmountable.
And from our remaining fixtures, 4 of them are home and 7 are away. Many of which are tricky games.
Right now, we deserve credit for quietly going about our business and winning games, but crunch time is coming and it remains to be seen whether we can maintain our position.
We have the better 1st team and manager, and Arsenal has the better mentality or spirit.
Arsenal should get top 4 but it could be very close.
I used to think we had a better first team but I think it’s quite close. My first eleven round be:
Lloris
Tierney
Gabriel
Romero
Tomiyasu
ESR
Hojbjerg
Partey / Skipp
Saka
Son
Kane
Quite even overall
comment by palmers_spur (U8896)
posted 1 minute ago
I used to think we had a better first team but I think it’s quite close. My first eleven round be:
Lloris
Tierney
Gabriel
Romero
Tomiyasu
ESR
Hojbjerg
Partey / Skipp
Saka
Son
Kane
Quite even overall
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well when Son and in particular Kane are on it, they are superb and way out in front of everyone else. I don't think any of Arsenal's players are world class but Kane and Son are, or at least have been.
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 35 minutes ago
fridgeboy,
My comment wasn't directed toward you, but to some of the other nonsense I've been reading on here.
A lot of people always seems to put in caveats when they talk about us. And our games against the top-6 aren't that important if we continue what we've been doing and getting results against the other sides. Which Spurs and Man United haven't been doing.
It's all well and good beating City x2, but what's the point if you're then losing to Burnley, Wolves, Southampton etc?
I wouldn't say we're far better than you, but I do prefer most of our players to yours, aside from the obvious 2. Although I have liked the look of Kulusevski and I think Skipp is very talented.
However, we have a young squad - newly assembled for the most part - and many have not been in a position where the pressure is on us to get top-4.
That has/soon will change and I want to see whether we cower under the pressure, like we did in some of Wenger's latter years and during Emery's tenure, or whether we'll rise to the occasion and get the job done.
I do personally think we have a mentally stronger side than teams we've had in the past, but they have to prove it on the pitch.
The race for CL football is by no means over. Not by a long shot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, and for me it's about performances, not necessarily results. I like to watch a lot of games as, first and foremost, I'm a football fan as well as being a Spurs fan so maybe I'm not as tribalistic as most. I've seen a fair few Arsenal games and though you've lost the occasional game you'd expect to lose, you've won against the rest and the one thing that doesn't change is your approach. That for me is key. You now have willing runners and a positive way of playing, regardless of the occasional defeat. That happens to the best of teams. Personally I find it annoying how lazy pundits have all but written off Arsenal's chances as I'd prefer you to feel the weight of expectation to see how that impacts on results.
You're not given enough credit as far as I'm concerned, fan rivalry aside. I mean, I still hate you guys but I'm beginning to see something take shape, in the right way.
Those Spurs fans saying we're practically on the same level aren't looking at the bigger picture. Results, style of play, attacking intent, goal difference, recruitment, manager, player age, club cohesion. There's so much different at both clubs and it's not just about the last four results. I think you're being undersold and we're being oversold, to tell the truth.
I don't think any of Arsenal's players are world class but Kane and Son are, or at least have been.
--------
Agreed, but most of our players are 23 or below in fairness.
Xhaka and Partey are the two most experienced 1st team players and they're both 28/29.
Saka, Odegaard, Smith-Rowe, Martinelli, Tomiyasu, Gabriel, White and Ramsdale all have lots of potential to improve.
Ramsdale/Lloris
Tomiyasu White Gabriel Tierney
Partey
Odegaard Skipp
Saka Kane Son
People sneaking in hojberg and Romero like nobody would notice
(Just to add, I've not seen much of Skipp, but spurs fans on here seem to like him so I've plumped for him instead of xhaka)
Son is only properly useful when you're on the counter, he's pretty crap in general play
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 5 minutes ago
I don't think any of Arsenal's players are world class but Kane and Son are, or at least have been.
--------
Agreed, but most of our players are 23 or below in fairness.
Xhaka and Partey are the two most experienced 1st team players and they're both 28/29.
Saka, Odegaard, Smith-Rowe, Martinelli, Tomiyasu, Gabriel, White and Ramsdale all have lots of potential to improve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True, they are young and have potential. Give it a couple of years and ESR and/or Saka could be world class. But they are not at that level just yet. That's why I'd say our 1st team is a bit stronger. It might share an even number of players in a combined XI, but Kane and Son put it in our favour because at their best they are above everyone else. I mean Kane is arguably the best player in the league.
fridgeboy I can respect that, and totally understand why you feel the way you do.
What I will say is it has taken Arteta 2 years to get to this point where we have something that resembles the team he wants and the style of play he wants to cultivate.
Before that, and I include our run to winning the FA Cup in this, we certainly didn't play attractive football He made us a solid side who were positionally secure and relied on the pace of Aubameyang/Pepe/Saka to take advantage of turnovers and transitions. We'd also have chaotic states in games where we'd cede too much control to the opposition and had to defend deep. It wasn't pretty.
And even last season, which was horrendous, he was lucky to keep his job with some of the awful stuff being served up. His tactics weren't working, we were dominating the ball but not creating any chances and nothing was changing up until he introduced Smith-Rowe/Odegaard and got rid of Willian from the 1st team. He also made a series of bizarre team selections and substitutions periodically. Which IMO cost us a place in the EL final.
Even this season, I wouldn't say we've consistently played fluid, attacking football. We've had periods when we do, but rarely sustained it over 90 minutes.
Like you say, things are gradually starting to take shape, yet look how long its taken to get to this point.
You'll have to do something similar in this respect, whether Conte is your manager next season or not.
Currently, you have a squad that is mix of different players built for different managers who had different styles and the revolving door means there's been no consistency in implementing a football philosophy that should be the foundation of your club and should overarch any manager.
I know things look a bit bleak right now, but your circumstances in football can turn around fast. Things in football aren't always as bad as we think they are.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 35 minutes ago
fridgeboy,
My comment wasn't directed toward you, but to some of the other nonsense I've been reading on here.
A lot of people always seems to put in caveats when they talk about us. And our games against the top-6 aren't that important if we continue what we've been doing and getting results against the other sides. Which Spurs and Man United haven't been doing.
It's all well and good beating City x2, but what's the point if you're then losing to Burnley, Wolves, Southampton etc?
I wouldn't say we're far better than you, but I do prefer most of our players to yours, aside from the obvious 2. Although I have liked the look of Kulusevski and I think Skipp is very talented.
However, we have a young squad - newly assembled for the most part - and many have not been in a position where the pressure is on us to get top-4.
That has/soon will change and I want to see whether we cower under the pressure, like we did in some of Wenger's latter years and during Emery's tenure, or whether we'll rise to the occasion and get the job done.
I do personally think we have a mentally stronger side than teams we've had in the past, but they have to prove it on the pitch.
The race for CL football is by no means over. Not by a long shot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, and for me it's about performances, not necessarily results. I like to watch a lot of games as, first and foremost, I'm a football fan as well as being a Spurs fan so maybe I'm not as tribalistic as most. I've seen a fair few Arsenal games and though you've lost the occasional game you'd expect to lose, you've won against the rest and the one thing that doesn't change is your approach. That for me is key. You now have willing runners and a positive way of playing, regardless of the occasional defeat. That happens to the best of teams. Personally I find it annoying how lazy pundits have all but written off Arsenal's chances as I'd prefer you to feel the weight of expectation to see how that impacts on results.
You're not given enough credit as far as I'm concerned, fan rivalry aside. I mean, I still hate you guysbut I'm beginning to see something take shape, in the right way.
Those Spurs fans saying we're practically on the same level aren't looking at the bigger picture. Results, style of play, attacking intent, goal difference, recruitment, manager, player age, club cohesion. There's so much different at both clubs and it's not just about the last four results. I think you're being undersold and we're being oversold, to tell the truth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
that's basically what I have been saying all thread..I've read the one game a week, playing rubbish teams, gonna lose to big teams, gonna crumble in March etc and thinking wtf, hold up, we've actually been pretty decent so far
comment by King TUt - I Need a Hiro (U3732)
posted 36 seconds ago
When he's playing city.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah City, that rubbish team who aren't one of the best teams in Europe.
What's your record been like against them away from home, and did anyone put in as good a shift as Kane did?
I think a lot are going way overboard over Arsenal youngsters. Saka is OK, the rest are average at best. You would think they were storming clear at the top of the table with the hype over them.
They are doing what all Arsenal teams have been doing for decades, flat track bullying teams in the bottom half a dozen.
I would not be getting that carried away at the moment if I was an Arsenal fan.
comment by King TUt - I Need a Hiro (U3732)
posted 14 minutes ago
"Partey/Skipp"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I couldn’t think of anyone really. And tbf whenever I’ve watched Partey (which admittedly hasn’t been that much) he’s looked quite clumsy in possession
Perhaps he’s improved.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by King TUt - I Need a Hiro (U3732)
posted 36 seconds ago
When he's playing city.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah City, that rubbish team who aren't one of the best teams in Europe.
What's your record been like against them away from home, and did anyone put in as good a shift as Kane did?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That wasn't my point.
comment by palmers_spur (U8896)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by King TUt - I Need a Hiro (U3732)
posted 14 minutes ago
"Partey/Skipp"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I couldn’t think of anyone really. And tbf whenever I’ve watched Partey (which admittedly hasn’t been that much) he’s looked quite clumsy in possession
Perhaps he’s improved.
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He's been excellent since he got over his injuries.
comment by King TUt - I Need a Hiro (U3732)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by King TUt - I Need a Hiro (U3732)
posted 36 seconds ago
When he's playing city.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah City, that rubbish team who aren't one of the best teams in Europe.
What's your record been like against them away from home, and did anyone put in as good a shift as Kane did?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That wasn't my point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The real point is, that we know what he's capable of with performances like that against City. Clearly we know he's by far the best player from either Arsenal's or Spurs's teams. He's having a season below his usual standards but has been good under Conte overall.
Sign in if you want to comment
I did have Arsenal down as nailed
Page 4 of 6
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posted on 7/3/22
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 23 minutes ago
You watch. I reckon the derby game against Arsenal will be sobering for us. We'll realise how far we've regressed when we end up with 30% possession at home against our biggest rivals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In the big games it's the results that matter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's where we differ Dev. I don't believe that for a second. I'd be annoyed losing a game but if we dominated and had plenty of chances, I'd be happy with the performance and the progression. You could see where progress was being made. Scraping a 1-0 win when Lloris has had to be on world class form or the post and crossbar has helped us out might see us get three points but it would paper over the cracks.
For me it's ALL about the performance. Get that right and the results over time improve. Focusing entirely on the result doesn't set you up for long term success as you end up altering the way you play throughout a match just to get the result. Often when we lost under Poch, you'd watch the highlights and see we had a hatful of chances but on the day just couldn't take them. That's a far better barometer for a squads level than any one isolated result.
A lot of lazy pundits will say "it's a good sign when you're picking up points if you're playing badly". No it's not. It's a sign that you got lucky and it'll likely run out if you keep it up. The sign of true champions is winning games by dominating them, not riding your luck.
I'd have no problem losing to Arsenal if I thought I could see a major breakthrough in the way that we were playing and ended up losing but dominating the game.
Your argument only applies in cup finals for me.
posted on 7/3/22
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 8 minutes ago
Arsenal are not far better than us, what nonesense.
They're a bit better right now and in reasonable form.
We've stuttered and need to get going again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I say that, I'm not just talking about individual talent. I think it's fair to see that it would be a pretty equal split when it came to making up an 11 of both teams. I'm talking more about philosophy. Something has clicked over there and they're now all singing from the same hymn sheet. They're dominating games more than they used to and they're getting results because of it.
Ask yourself this - with a full first team squad involved do you think Arsenal would have been torn apart by Middlesborough the way we were? Do you think they'd have played 3 at the back and 2 holding? Not. A. Chance.
We have a stale squad with an uninspired, cautious style. That's why there's a chasm between the two teams.
posted on 7/3/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 27 minutes ago
People keep talking about this one game a week stuff benefiting Arsenal hugely. Regardless of whether that's true or not, no-one, including Arsenal fans, would have had us 4th with 3 games in hand in March at the start of the season. If anyone had suggested this, they'd have been publicly ridiculed.
I know it must burn some of you to give us our flowers, but we do actually have some decent players you know. That's why we're currently in the position we're in.
Saying we're there because we only play 1 game a week is lazy analysis. Otherwise why don't loads of other teams who play 1 game a week compete for 4th?
And no, this does not mean we will get 4th. I've said several times I'm sceptical of our chances. But if we can't be taken seriously as a legitimate top-4 contender now, then we never will.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not everyone is saying that to be fair. Personally I've been saying that Arsenal are a lot better than us Spurs fans and the likes of Gary Neville and Roy Keane are giving them credit for. Your defence is beginning to click, you now have a top class keeper and you've also got a number of bright young talents emerging like Saka, Smith Rowe and Martinelli. Then there's the shrewd signings like Odergaard and another youngster whose name escapes me who's supposed to be huge (think he played in the Forest game).
For me it's about trajectory. You're heading upwards and we're going the other way. Maybe it comes from my desire to see football played the right way where your plan is to win by playing football not waiting for the opposition to make a mistake before pouncing. I hate the counter attacking style we've become accustomed to. Poch had us playing a way that never changed whoever we played. It was about controlling the game. Arteta is doing the same thing. That's how you truly build.
Arsenal are far better than us. Even when we beat you, there's the knowledge that you might have had more possession and more shots on goal. I'm not happy with just the result. I want to see the progress on the pitch, not on the table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal are currently a few points in front in the table. But to say they are a lot better than Spurs is not true. They have beaten lots of bottom of the table teams in the past couple of months. You are making out like that they are peak Barcelona and are on an unstoppable roll. They have a very average squad, so let`s not get to carried away. And I would expect Spurs to be beating them in front of a full WHL when they meet.
posted on 7/3/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 8 minutes ago
Arsenal are not far better than us, what nonesense.
They're a bit better right now and in reasonable form.
We've stuttered and need to get going again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I say that, I'm not just talking about individual talent. I think it's fair to see that it would be a pretty equal split when it came to making up an 11 of both teams. I'm talking more about philosophy. Something has clicked over there and they're now all singing from the same hymn sheet. They're dominating games more than they used to and they're getting results because of it.
Ask yourself this - with a full first team squad involved do you think Arsenal would have been torn apart by Middlesborough the way we were? Do you think they'd have played 3 at the back and 2 holding? Not. A. Chance.
We have a stale squad with an uninspired, cautious style. That's why there's a chasm between the two teams.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal lost to Nottm Forest a few weeks back in the FA Cup, a team of similar quality to Middlesborough.
posted on 7/3/22
fridgeboy,
My comment wasn't directed toward you, but to some of the other nonsense I've been reading on here.
A lot of people always seems to put in caveats when they talk about us. And our games against the top-6 aren't that important if we continue what we've been doing and getting results against the other sides. Which Spurs and Man United haven't been doing.
It's all well and good beating City x2, but what's the point if you're then losing to Burnley, Wolves, Southampton etc?
I wouldn't say we're far better than you, but I do prefer most of our players to yours, aside from the obvious 2. Although I have liked the look of Kulusevski and I think Skipp is very talented.
However, we have a young squad - newly assembled for the most part - and many have not been in a position where the pressure is on us to get top-4.
That has/soon will change and I want to see whether we cower under the pressure, like we did in some of Wenger's latter years and during Emery's tenure, or whether we'll rise to the occasion and get the job done.
I do personally think we have a mentally stronger side than teams we've had in the past, but they have to prove it on the pitch.
The race for CL football is by no means over. Not by a long shot.
posted on 7/3/22
I’m with fridgeboy on this one. Arsenal are definitely better than us at the minute. You only have to look at the way the two teams play. Arsenal are starting to play a dynamic, attacking game, whereas we are cautious. Our style of football is awful to watch, and we’re a poor passing team.
It’s not just a few points or results. I want us to start controlling games and asserting ourselves, not to watch this awful defensive counter attacking. I’m happy for us to play that way against City and Liverpool (possibly also Chelsea), who, let’s face it are light years ahead of the rest, but we should be taking the game to other teams.
We’ve been played off the park by Southampton, Wolves, Burnley and fecking Boro in recent weeks snd it’s dreadful to watch.
posted on 7/3/22
I think we are better than you at the moment (and league table obviously shows that too), but I don't think the gap is insurmountable.
And from our remaining fixtures, 4 of them are home and 7 are away. Many of which are tricky games.
Right now, we deserve credit for quietly going about our business and winning games, but crunch time is coming and it remains to be seen whether we can maintain our position.
posted on 7/3/22
We have the better 1st team and manager, and Arsenal has the better mentality or spirit.
Arsenal should get top 4 but it could be very close.
posted on 7/3/22
I used to think we had a better first team but I think it’s quite close. My first eleven round be:
Lloris
Tierney
Gabriel
Romero
Tomiyasu
ESR
Hojbjerg
Partey / Skipp
Saka
Son
Kane
Quite even overall
posted on 7/3/22
comment by palmers_spur (U8896)
posted 1 minute ago
I used to think we had a better first team but I think it’s quite close. My first eleven round be:
Lloris
Tierney
Gabriel
Romero
Tomiyasu
ESR
Hojbjerg
Partey / Skipp
Saka
Son
Kane
Quite even overall
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well when Son and in particular Kane are on it, they are superb and way out in front of everyone else. I don't think any of Arsenal's players are world class but Kane and Son are, or at least have been.
posted on 7/3/22
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 35 minutes ago
fridgeboy,
My comment wasn't directed toward you, but to some of the other nonsense I've been reading on here.
A lot of people always seems to put in caveats when they talk about us. And our games against the top-6 aren't that important if we continue what we've been doing and getting results against the other sides. Which Spurs and Man United haven't been doing.
It's all well and good beating City x2, but what's the point if you're then losing to Burnley, Wolves, Southampton etc?
I wouldn't say we're far better than you, but I do prefer most of our players to yours, aside from the obvious 2. Although I have liked the look of Kulusevski and I think Skipp is very talented.
However, we have a young squad - newly assembled for the most part - and many have not been in a position where the pressure is on us to get top-4.
That has/soon will change and I want to see whether we cower under the pressure, like we did in some of Wenger's latter years and during Emery's tenure, or whether we'll rise to the occasion and get the job done.
I do personally think we have a mentally stronger side than teams we've had in the past, but they have to prove it on the pitch.
The race for CL football is by no means over. Not by a long shot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, and for me it's about performances, not necessarily results. I like to watch a lot of games as, first and foremost, I'm a football fan as well as being a Spurs fan so maybe I'm not as tribalistic as most. I've seen a fair few Arsenal games and though you've lost the occasional game you'd expect to lose, you've won against the rest and the one thing that doesn't change is your approach. That for me is key. You now have willing runners and a positive way of playing, regardless of the occasional defeat. That happens to the best of teams. Personally I find it annoying how lazy pundits have all but written off Arsenal's chances as I'd prefer you to feel the weight of expectation to see how that impacts on results.
You're not given enough credit as far as I'm concerned, fan rivalry aside. I mean, I still hate you guys but I'm beginning to see something take shape, in the right way.
Those Spurs fans saying we're practically on the same level aren't looking at the bigger picture. Results, style of play, attacking intent, goal difference, recruitment, manager, player age, club cohesion. There's so much different at both clubs and it's not just about the last four results. I think you're being undersold and we're being oversold, to tell the truth.
posted on 7/3/22
I don't think any of Arsenal's players are world class but Kane and Son are, or at least have been.
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Agreed, but most of our players are 23 or below in fairness.
Xhaka and Partey are the two most experienced 1st team players and they're both 28/29.
Saka, Odegaard, Smith-Rowe, Martinelli, Tomiyasu, Gabriel, White and Ramsdale all have lots of potential to improve.
posted on 7/3/22
"Partey/Skipp"
posted on 7/3/22
Ramsdale/Lloris
Tomiyasu White Gabriel Tierney
Partey
Odegaard Skipp
Saka Kane Son
People sneaking in hojberg and Romero like nobody would notice
(Just to add, I've not seen much of Skipp, but spurs fans on here seem to like him so I've plumped for him instead of xhaka)
posted on 7/3/22
Son is only properly useful when you're on the counter, he's pretty crap in general play
posted on 7/3/22
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 5 minutes ago
I don't think any of Arsenal's players are world class but Kane and Son are, or at least have been.
--------
Agreed, but most of our players are 23 or below in fairness.
Xhaka and Partey are the two most experienced 1st team players and they're both 28/29.
Saka, Odegaard, Smith-Rowe, Martinelli, Tomiyasu, Gabriel, White and Ramsdale all have lots of potential to improve.
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True, they are young and have potential. Give it a couple of years and ESR and/or Saka could be world class. But they are not at that level just yet. That's why I'd say our 1st team is a bit stronger. It might share an even number of players in a combined XI, but Kane and Son put it in our favour because at their best they are above everyone else. I mean Kane is arguably the best player in the league.
posted on 7/3/22
When he's playing city.
posted on 7/3/22
fridgeboy I can respect that, and totally understand why you feel the way you do.
What I will say is it has taken Arteta 2 years to get to this point where we have something that resembles the team he wants and the style of play he wants to cultivate.
Before that, and I include our run to winning the FA Cup in this, we certainly didn't play attractive football He made us a solid side who were positionally secure and relied on the pace of Aubameyang/Pepe/Saka to take advantage of turnovers and transitions. We'd also have chaotic states in games where we'd cede too much control to the opposition and had to defend deep. It wasn't pretty.
And even last season, which was horrendous, he was lucky to keep his job with some of the awful stuff being served up. His tactics weren't working, we were dominating the ball but not creating any chances and nothing was changing up until he introduced Smith-Rowe/Odegaard and got rid of Willian from the 1st team. He also made a series of bizarre team selections and substitutions periodically. Which IMO cost us a place in the EL final.
Even this season, I wouldn't say we've consistently played fluid, attacking football. We've had periods when we do, but rarely sustained it over 90 minutes.
Like you say, things are gradually starting to take shape, yet look how long its taken to get to this point.
You'll have to do something similar in this respect, whether Conte is your manager next season or not.
Currently, you have a squad that is mix of different players built for different managers who had different styles and the revolving door means there's been no consistency in implementing a football philosophy that should be the foundation of your club and should overarch any manager.
I know things look a bit bleak right now, but your circumstances in football can turn around fast. Things in football aren't always as bad as we think they are.
posted on 7/3/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 35 minutes ago
fridgeboy,
My comment wasn't directed toward you, but to some of the other nonsense I've been reading on here.
A lot of people always seems to put in caveats when they talk about us. And our games against the top-6 aren't that important if we continue what we've been doing and getting results against the other sides. Which Spurs and Man United haven't been doing.
It's all well and good beating City x2, but what's the point if you're then losing to Burnley, Wolves, Southampton etc?
I wouldn't say we're far better than you, but I do prefer most of our players to yours, aside from the obvious 2. Although I have liked the look of Kulusevski and I think Skipp is very talented.
However, we have a young squad - newly assembled for the most part - and many have not been in a position where the pressure is on us to get top-4.
That has/soon will change and I want to see whether we cower under the pressure, like we did in some of Wenger's latter years and during Emery's tenure, or whether we'll rise to the occasion and get the job done.
I do personally think we have a mentally stronger side than teams we've had in the past, but they have to prove it on the pitch.
The race for CL football is by no means over. Not by a long shot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, and for me it's about performances, not necessarily results. I like to watch a lot of games as, first and foremost, I'm a football fan as well as being a Spurs fan so maybe I'm not as tribalistic as most. I've seen a fair few Arsenal games and though you've lost the occasional game you'd expect to lose, you've won against the rest and the one thing that doesn't change is your approach. That for me is key. You now have willing runners and a positive way of playing, regardless of the occasional defeat. That happens to the best of teams. Personally I find it annoying how lazy pundits have all but written off Arsenal's chances as I'd prefer you to feel the weight of expectation to see how that impacts on results.
You're not given enough credit as far as I'm concerned, fan rivalry aside. I mean, I still hate you guysbut I'm beginning to see something take shape, in the right way.
Those Spurs fans saying we're practically on the same level aren't looking at the bigger picture. Results, style of play, attacking intent, goal difference, recruitment, manager, player age, club cohesion. There's so much different at both clubs and it's not just about the last four results. I think you're being undersold and we're being oversold, to tell the truth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
that's basically what I have been saying all thread..I've read the one game a week, playing rubbish teams, gonna lose to big teams, gonna crumble in March etc and thinking wtf, hold up, we've actually been pretty decent so far
posted on 7/3/22
comment by King TUt - I Need a Hiro (U3732)
posted 36 seconds ago
When he's playing city.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah City, that rubbish team who aren't one of the best teams in Europe.
What's your record been like against them away from home, and did anyone put in as good a shift as Kane did?
posted on 7/3/22
I think a lot are going way overboard over Arsenal youngsters. Saka is OK, the rest are average at best. You would think they were storming clear at the top of the table with the hype over them.
They are doing what all Arsenal teams have been doing for decades, flat track bullying teams in the bottom half a dozen.
I would not be getting that carried away at the moment if I was an Arsenal fan.
posted on 7/3/22
comment by King TUt - I Need a Hiro (U3732)
posted 14 minutes ago
"Partey/Skipp"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I couldn’t think of anyone really. And tbf whenever I’ve watched Partey (which admittedly hasn’t been that much) he’s looked quite clumsy in possession
Perhaps he’s improved.
posted on 7/3/22
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by King TUt - I Need a Hiro (U3732)
posted 36 seconds ago
When he's playing city.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah City, that rubbish team who aren't one of the best teams in Europe.
What's your record been like against them away from home, and did anyone put in as good a shift as Kane did?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That wasn't my point.
posted on 7/3/22
comment by palmers_spur (U8896)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by King TUt - I Need a Hiro (U3732)
posted 14 minutes ago
"Partey/Skipp"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I couldn’t think of anyone really. And tbf whenever I’ve watched Partey (which admittedly hasn’t been that much) he’s looked quite clumsy in possession
Perhaps he’s improved.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's been excellent since he got over his injuries.
posted on 7/3/22
comment by King TUt - I Need a Hiro (U3732)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by King TUt - I Need a Hiro (U3732)
posted 36 seconds ago
When he's playing city.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah City, that rubbish team who aren't one of the best teams in Europe.
What's your record been like against them away from home, and did anyone put in as good a shift as Kane did?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That wasn't my point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The real point is, that we know what he's capable of with performances like that against City. Clearly we know he's by far the best player from either Arsenal's or Spurs's teams. He's having a season below his usual standards but has been good under Conte overall.
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