Yeh, again I am with Amiga on this one - some people are better at driving today - but even that is maybe countable on a few hands, its not many, people are bad at driving! And in 10 years nope it wont even be close even F1 AI would dominate.
Ok, it will be boring as feck to watch as the AI will always be taking the perfect line, and maybe there will be 1 time in a hundred that a person could win. Yeh, there will maybe be a niche (drifting, stunt driving etc) that survives longer but even that a computer could become better at in time if it was needed.
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yeh, again I am with Amiga on this one - some people are better at driving today - but even that is maybe countable on a few hands, its not many, people are bad at driving! And in 10 years nope it wont even be close even F1 AI would dominate.
Ok, it will be boring as feck to watch as the AI will always be taking the perfect line, and maybe there will be 1 time in a hundred that a person could win. Yeh, there will maybe be a niche (drifting, stunt driving etc) that survives longer but even that a computer could become better at in time if it was needed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
again like I said Simon i was pedantic anc using "racing" a car as a barometer of driving skill , when I know its not.
Everything I said is 100% true however, there has bene a lot of talk, research and practice put in terms of racing and AI.
In a real race AI cannot in real life a race car is not in " control " its technically out of control because you need ti bypass the limits of grip to get the most out of car. AI cannot do this in real life. it can drive up to the limit of grip and no more. It cannot break that grip cos when it does it starts to lose information and cannot make the calculations it needs to.
Im not saying it wouldnt be possible to develop AI that could base it decisions without information and be able to pre-empt things but thats miles off and would require sentient AI.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 3 minutes ago
And come on Amiga..... im a sim racer. In regards to Polyphonys "SOFIE" AI ... thats first of not a great sim, its not based on real life physics. its all based on logic and info. Info and data it wouldnt have in real life.
All SOFIE did was calculate the quickest lines on a track. it has zero relevance to real life
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are talking about two different things. This was not programmed it was learn't. Whatever you might think about Gan Tourismo as a sim, it still has racing parameters that are the same for everyone. It learn'y the fastest way around the track within those parameters.
Ai makes it's own decisions, very much like the same as a human, but without the human limitations.
I will go back to the game of GO. It was considered impossible for a computer to be able to think out of the box like it's human opponent. It did exactly that, and it won 4 games to 1.
And again I will emphasise, it will only ever get better.
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 3 minutes ago
And come on Amiga..... im a sim racer. In regards to Polyphonys "SOFIE" AI ... thats first of not a great sim, its not based on real life physics. its all based on logic and info. Info and data it wouldnt have in real life.
All SOFIE did was calculate the quickest lines on a track. it has zero relevance to real life
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are talking about two different things. This was not programmed it was learn't. Whatever you might think about Gan Tourismo as a sim, it still has racing parameters that are the same for everyone. It learn'y the fastest way around the track within those parameters.
Ai makes it's own decisions, very much like the same as a human, but without the human limitations.
I will go back to the game of GO. It was considered impossible for a computer to be able to think out of the box like it's human opponent. It did exactly that, and it won 4 games to 1.
And again I will emphasise, it will only ever get better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it was programmed.... based on logic that is not variable and not real. Its basing of a sim racing game that does not apply real life physics.
Look its up to you if you wanna believe me or not. You know certain things about certain things im not disputing that.
But I know racing, I have raced Clio cups, Radicals and karting. I race on sims every single day, I have attended demonstration days and tournaments in Berlin hosted by SMS (makers of Project Cars).
Its something I have valid interest in and did a decent bit of research as you can imagine.
It shouldnt be too difficult to work out why a massive sim enthusiast would have great interest in AI racing.
Oh I might also add, it learn't by driving against the best Gran Tourismo drivers in the world. It of course lost early on but grew over time to compete then beat the competition.
this is why you get racing drivers that will "outperform" the car. the AI will calculate how much grip it should have how fast it can go but the driver can outperform it.
why cos the driver is not driving to the limits of information he is driving beyond it. he is going beyond the limits of information available and technically driving the car out of control.
There have been plenty of AI cars (PLENTY!!!) tested out round the Nürburgring and they cannot get near the levels of the real racers... cos its basing all its logic on rules and cannot pre-empt and drive beyond the "limit of the car" or the limits of the information it has.
whodunnit
it was programmed.... based on logic that is not variable and not real. Its basing of a sim racing game that does not apply real life physics.
Look its up to you if you wanna believe me or not. You know certain things about certain things im not disputing that.
But I know racing, I have raced Clio cups, Radicals and karting. I race on sims every single day, I have attended demonstration days and tournaments in Berlin hosted by SMS (makers of Project Cars).
Its something I have valid interest in and did a decent bit of research as you can imagine.
It shouldnt be too difficult to work out why a massive sim enthusiast would have great interest in AI racing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was not programmed it was learnt. I respect your knowledge of racing and tip my hat to you, I'm sure you would leave me in your wake. But modern ai is mind boggling in it's potential, and we are just scratching the surface of what is possible.
It is a brand new frontier, and a top ai programmer is worth his weight in gold.
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 4 minutes ago
Oh I might also add, it learn't by driving against the best Gran Tourismo drivers in the world. It of course lost early on but grew over time to compete then beat the competition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
dude thats not real !
to achieve that all they had to do was turn the AI speed up 1% and ont have to worry about if thats actually possible. if you actually watched and studied that stuff about SOFIE you would know it was cutting corners and taking lines that were not possible ot explointing the lack of physics (knowing which parts of the circuit it could run off and get real grip ie the programmers had programmed (or made mistakes more accurately) so in some races the AI would be driving on the grass that wasnt actually programmed as grass even though onscreen it looked like it.
Like I said I am very familiar with this subject
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 1 minute ago
whodunnit
it was programmed.... based on logic that is not variable and not real. Its basing of a sim racing game that does not apply real life physics.
Look its up to you if you wanna believe me or not. You know certain things about certain things im not disputing that.
But I know racing, I have raced Clio cups, Radicals and karting. I race on sims every single day, I have attended demonstration days and tournaments in Berlin hosted by SMS (makers of Project Cars).
Its something I have valid interest in and did a decent bit of research as you can imagine.
It shouldnt be too difficult to work out why a massive sim enthusiast would have great interest in AI racing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was not programmed it was learnt. I respect your knowledge of racing and tip my hat to you, I'm sure you would leave me in your wake. But modern ai is mind boggling in it's potential, and we are just scratching the surface of what is possible.
It is a brand new frontier, and a top ai programmer is worth his weight in gold.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it was programmed ... it knew where the grip was (off the circuit) and followed it... ie went off track onto the grass (on first attempted race) knowing fine well that the "grass" was actually the same grip as tarmac and the programmers had missed a glitch. It was genuinely exploiting glitches in the programming straight of the bat, first time and first lap around. it didnt learn these from practice laps it didnt learn it from the pro's it already knew cos it was playing of the coding of the game.
it was not real life and it based all its decisions 100% on the rules/logic and info based in the game. none of which it would have in real life. it wouldnt have that info.
You are familiar to a point. And again I am not talking about Gran Tourismo specifically, just pointing out how Ai was able to beat the best in the world.
I have no doubt, it the best ai teams were set the task of beating the best humans around a track, Ai would win the day. It may take a decade, but it would inevitably win.
There are some great Ai programmers working on self driving. It is no surprise to me to see Tesla dominating, as they have the cream of the crop working for them.
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 1 minute ago
You are familiar to a point. And again I am not talking about Gran Tourismo specifically, just pointing out how Ai was able to beat the best in the world.
I have no doubt, it the best ai teams were set the task of beating the best humans around a track, Ai would win the day. It may take a decade, but it would inevitably win.
There are some great Ai programmers working on self driving. It is no surprise to me to see Tesla dominating, as they have the cream of the crop working for them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it hasnt and cant in real life that what im telling you.
it cannot base decisions of losing data or lack of data.
when the car and tyres start to lose grip the AI loses info and data, they cannot do it. they can only take it to the limit of grip and no more, this is much faster tha the average person yes but racing drivers drive beyond the level of grip beyond the "limits" as they say of the car. When every AI and system tells you thats its not possible.
As I said they do test regularly in race spec cars, on road spec cars with AI and like I have told you the AI cannot compete cause it can only take the car to its perceived limit cased on the info it uses to make calculations.
You can dismiss it if you want or you can actually go and research it. No AI car is faster round a track than the pro's.
If they were trust me we would know about it !!!
in the real world applying to real life circumstances to the average person of course AI will be better and safer.
but in terms of racing nope, as things stand they cannot and with current technologies , they wont/cant.
Alright we are going around in circles. I am telling you we are just scratching the surface of what Ai is capable of. It will inevitably outperform humans. You don't believe that is possible, I am telling you it is inevitable.
I will just leave this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNrXgpSEEIE
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 2 minutes ago
Alright we are going around in circles. I am telling you we are just scratching the surface of what Ai is capable of. It will inevitably outperform humans. You don't believe that is possible, I am telling you it is inevitable.
I will just leave this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNrXgpSEEIE
----------------------------------------------------------------------
your just not understanding at all. Amiga do some research into AI racing.
with current technology AI cannot race quicker than humans ad they will not ... there will need to be a change to the technology in order to do so. thats the facts and I have given you the reasons why.
Current technology means that AI cannot go as quickly cos its all a matter of grip and AI cannot compute when it loses the information its using to compute. in order to go as fast as possible drivers need to break the levels of grip which the AI cannot do.
the link and example you gave proves you are missing the point and dont understand why current technology cannot and will not out perform race car drivers. im not saying that it cant be done just that with current technology it cannot be done.
that will inevitable change no doubt. but i dont think its ever a route anyone will go down as there is no point.
The point I am making is people have already dismissed what Ai is capable of. There is a massive revolution taking place, and Ai is part of that.
The best Ai programmers are not working in race teams. The Tesla Ai team is doing something very different from everyone else, they are thinking outside the box, and from what I am seeing will reap huge rewards.
I am telling you, Ai will inevitably outperform humans. It is only a matter of time.
give me one example of an AI race car being better than a pro race car.
there have been thousands and thousands of laps done on the Nürburgring in AI cars why are they not quicker than the race drivers? I have told you why they are not but you refuse to acknowledge it. Can you explain why the reasons I gave are not true and therefore explain what I am missing?! Why are the AI not as fast as the race drivers over he last 4 years.
Why hasnt the king of marketing not used this as a marketing tool for his AI tesla's being quicker round a track than pro drivers. You dont think if Musk could get his cars to outperform the best humans on the planet he wouldnt let the world know?
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 51 seconds ago
I am telling you, Ai will inevitably outperform humans. It is only a matter of time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AI in its current state will never beat a human pro driver round a track (within reason). It never has, and there is no evidence to show that under current technology that it can or will.
prove me wrong
I can't give you that example. It is not the biggest thing being worked on. If the best resources were poured into beating a human racing driver, it would happen.
To be honest solving the complexities of self driving seems a far bigger problem
I have said numerous times that AI will and can outperform the average human who has not been taught how to drive a car round a track and quickly before.
It wont and cant outperform the pros.
"Ai will inevitably outperform humans." just a pointless open ended statement that means nothing.
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 1 minute ago
I can't give you that example. It is not the biggest thing being worked on. If the best resources were poured into beating a human racing driver, it would happen.
To be honest solving the complexities of self driving seems a far bigger problem
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BMW have put over 4 years testing into this. pretty much all the major race car manufacturers are using AI race cars for development. Like I said in this particular part of this subject im fairly well educated.
I hear what you are saying, and it is no different to what professional GO players were saying.
And yes it is an open ended statement. because it is a whole new world, that most people including me know little about. But Ai is changing the world we live in, and nobody working in the ai field will know we are just scratching the surface of what's possible.
sakes Amiga, take the small tiny insignificant loss.
you made a claim, most of it correct, some of it incorrect or misleading all I did was point it out given that I have a fair amount of knowledge about the subject and is slap bang in the middle of my field of interest.
yes AI cars will be better and safer and quicker than the average human. they will be safer than the very best drivers.
they are and will not (with current technology) be faster than the best drivers.
BMW have not got the Tesla team working for them. There is a reason they have gone a very different route to everyone else.
There is a woman working in Ai, who in her own words says there are very few elite Ai programmers. They are not just the best they are on a whole different level. puts them as god like.
Tesla have these people, and are doing things others can't even imagine. They are not working in race teams.
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 4 minutes ago
BMW have not got the Tesla team working for them. There is a reason they have gone a very different route to everyone else.
There is a woman working in Ai, who in her own words says there are very few elite Ai programmers. They are not just the best they are on a whole different level. puts them as god like.
Tesla have these people, and are doing things others can't even imagine. They are not working in race teams.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tesla are testing the Nurbergring. I only used BMW as an example because I was more familiar with the research and testing they have been doing.
Tesla are testing there all the time also.
Tesla also do a lot of testing at American tracks (in fact im fairly certain Musk purchased a track for testing) regardless of how talented the programmers are they are still working with technology that has limitations and base their calculations on information the can gather and process. Until there is technology available that doesnt require processed information to make decisions then AI will not be quicker round tracks than pro drivers. AI will tell you that what a pro driver i doing is not possible and if does try to mimic what the pro does it loses control cause it cannot predict or make calculations with info it does not have.
this woman you speak of .... she works for Tesla I assume?
yeah they dont lie at all !?!
No she has her own Ai company. She watched Tesla's Ai day, and realised how far ahead they were, and in fact lost her best talent to them after it. She is now heavily investing in Tesla, and has switched her Ai strategy, realising it would be stupid to compete with them.
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posted on 23/8/22
Yeh, again I am with Amiga on this one - some people are better at driving today - but even that is maybe countable on a few hands, its not many, people are bad at driving! And in 10 years nope it wont even be close even F1 AI would dominate.
Ok, it will be boring as feck to watch as the AI will always be taking the perfect line, and maybe there will be 1 time in a hundred that a person could win. Yeh, there will maybe be a niche (drifting, stunt driving etc) that survives longer but even that a computer could become better at in time if it was needed.
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yeh, again I am with Amiga on this one - some people are better at driving today - but even that is maybe countable on a few hands, its not many, people are bad at driving! And in 10 years nope it wont even be close even F1 AI would dominate.
Ok, it will be boring as feck to watch as the AI will always be taking the perfect line, and maybe there will be 1 time in a hundred that a person could win. Yeh, there will maybe be a niche (drifting, stunt driving etc) that survives longer but even that a computer could become better at in time if it was needed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
again like I said Simon i was pedantic anc using "racing" a car as a barometer of driving skill , when I know its not.
Everything I said is 100% true however, there has bene a lot of talk, research and practice put in terms of racing and AI.
In a real race AI cannot in real life a race car is not in " control " its technically out of control because you need ti bypass the limits of grip to get the most out of car. AI cannot do this in real life. it can drive up to the limit of grip and no more. It cannot break that grip cos when it does it starts to lose information and cannot make the calculations it needs to.
Im not saying it wouldnt be possible to develop AI that could base it decisions without information and be able to pre-empt things but thats miles off and would require sentient AI.
posted on 23/8/22
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 3 minutes ago
And come on Amiga..... im a sim racer. In regards to Polyphonys "SOFIE" AI ... thats first of not a great sim, its not based on real life physics. its all based on logic and info. Info and data it wouldnt have in real life.
All SOFIE did was calculate the quickest lines on a track. it has zero relevance to real life
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are talking about two different things. This was not programmed it was learn't. Whatever you might think about Gan Tourismo as a sim, it still has racing parameters that are the same for everyone. It learn'y the fastest way around the track within those parameters.
Ai makes it's own decisions, very much like the same as a human, but without the human limitations.
I will go back to the game of GO. It was considered impossible for a computer to be able to think out of the box like it's human opponent. It did exactly that, and it won 4 games to 1.
And again I will emphasise, it will only ever get better.
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 3 minutes ago
And come on Amiga..... im a sim racer. In regards to Polyphonys "SOFIE" AI ... thats first of not a great sim, its not based on real life physics. its all based on logic and info. Info and data it wouldnt have in real life.
All SOFIE did was calculate the quickest lines on a track. it has zero relevance to real life
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are talking about two different things. This was not programmed it was learn't. Whatever you might think about Gan Tourismo as a sim, it still has racing parameters that are the same for everyone. It learn'y the fastest way around the track within those parameters.
Ai makes it's own decisions, very much like the same as a human, but without the human limitations.
I will go back to the game of GO. It was considered impossible for a computer to be able to think out of the box like it's human opponent. It did exactly that, and it won 4 games to 1.
And again I will emphasise, it will only ever get better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it was programmed.... based on logic that is not variable and not real. Its basing of a sim racing game that does not apply real life physics.
Look its up to you if you wanna believe me or not. You know certain things about certain things im not disputing that.
But I know racing, I have raced Clio cups, Radicals and karting. I race on sims every single day, I have attended demonstration days and tournaments in Berlin hosted by SMS (makers of Project Cars).
Its something I have valid interest in and did a decent bit of research as you can imagine.
It shouldnt be too difficult to work out why a massive sim enthusiast would have great interest in AI racing.
posted on 23/8/22
Oh I might also add, it learn't by driving against the best Gran Tourismo drivers in the world. It of course lost early on but grew over time to compete then beat the competition.
posted on 23/8/22
this is why you get racing drivers that will "outperform" the car. the AI will calculate how much grip it should have how fast it can go but the driver can outperform it.
why cos the driver is not driving to the limits of information he is driving beyond it. he is going beyond the limits of information available and technically driving the car out of control.
There have been plenty of AI cars (PLENTY!!!) tested out round the Nürburgring and they cannot get near the levels of the real racers... cos its basing all its logic on rules and cannot pre-empt and drive beyond the "limit of the car" or the limits of the information it has.
posted on 23/8/22
whodunnit
it was programmed.... based on logic that is not variable and not real. Its basing of a sim racing game that does not apply real life physics.
Look its up to you if you wanna believe me or not. You know certain things about certain things im not disputing that.
But I know racing, I have raced Clio cups, Radicals and karting. I race on sims every single day, I have attended demonstration days and tournaments in Berlin hosted by SMS (makers of Project Cars).
Its something I have valid interest in and did a decent bit of research as you can imagine.
It shouldnt be too difficult to work out why a massive sim enthusiast would have great interest in AI racing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was not programmed it was learnt. I respect your knowledge of racing and tip my hat to you, I'm sure you would leave me in your wake. But modern ai is mind boggling in it's potential, and we are just scratching the surface of what is possible.
It is a brand new frontier, and a top ai programmer is worth his weight in gold.
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 4 minutes ago
Oh I might also add, it learn't by driving against the best Gran Tourismo drivers in the world. It of course lost early on but grew over time to compete then beat the competition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
dude thats not real !
to achieve that all they had to do was turn the AI speed up 1% and ont have to worry about if thats actually possible. if you actually watched and studied that stuff about SOFIE you would know it was cutting corners and taking lines that were not possible ot explointing the lack of physics (knowing which parts of the circuit it could run off and get real grip ie the programmers had programmed (or made mistakes more accurately) so in some races the AI would be driving on the grass that wasnt actually programmed as grass even though onscreen it looked like it.
Like I said I am very familiar with this subject
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 1 minute ago
whodunnit
it was programmed.... based on logic that is not variable and not real. Its basing of a sim racing game that does not apply real life physics.
Look its up to you if you wanna believe me or not. You know certain things about certain things im not disputing that.
But I know racing, I have raced Clio cups, Radicals and karting. I race on sims every single day, I have attended demonstration days and tournaments in Berlin hosted by SMS (makers of Project Cars).
Its something I have valid interest in and did a decent bit of research as you can imagine.
It shouldnt be too difficult to work out why a massive sim enthusiast would have great interest in AI racing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was not programmed it was learnt. I respect your knowledge of racing and tip my hat to you, I'm sure you would leave me in your wake. But modern ai is mind boggling in it's potential, and we are just scratching the surface of what is possible.
It is a brand new frontier, and a top ai programmer is worth his weight in gold.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it was programmed ... it knew where the grip was (off the circuit) and followed it... ie went off track onto the grass (on first attempted race) knowing fine well that the "grass" was actually the same grip as tarmac and the programmers had missed a glitch. It was genuinely exploiting glitches in the programming straight of the bat, first time and first lap around. it didnt learn these from practice laps it didnt learn it from the pro's it already knew cos it was playing of the coding of the game.
it was not real life and it based all its decisions 100% on the rules/logic and info based in the game. none of which it would have in real life. it wouldnt have that info.
posted on 23/8/22
You are familiar to a point. And again I am not talking about Gran Tourismo specifically, just pointing out how Ai was able to beat the best in the world.
I have no doubt, it the best ai teams were set the task of beating the best humans around a track, Ai would win the day. It may take a decade, but it would inevitably win.
There are some great Ai programmers working on self driving. It is no surprise to me to see Tesla dominating, as they have the cream of the crop working for them.
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 1 minute ago
You are familiar to a point. And again I am not talking about Gran Tourismo specifically, just pointing out how Ai was able to beat the best in the world.
I have no doubt, it the best ai teams were set the task of beating the best humans around a track, Ai would win the day. It may take a decade, but it would inevitably win.
There are some great Ai programmers working on self driving. It is no surprise to me to see Tesla dominating, as they have the cream of the crop working for them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it hasnt and cant in real life that what im telling you.
it cannot base decisions of losing data or lack of data.
when the car and tyres start to lose grip the AI loses info and data, they cannot do it. they can only take it to the limit of grip and no more, this is much faster tha the average person yes but racing drivers drive beyond the level of grip beyond the "limits" as they say of the car. When every AI and system tells you thats its not possible.
As I said they do test regularly in race spec cars, on road spec cars with AI and like I have told you the AI cannot compete cause it can only take the car to its perceived limit cased on the info it uses to make calculations.
You can dismiss it if you want or you can actually go and research it. No AI car is faster round a track than the pro's.
If they were trust me we would know about it !!!
in the real world applying to real life circumstances to the average person of course AI will be better and safer.
but in terms of racing nope, as things stand they cannot and with current technologies , they wont/cant.
posted on 23/8/22
Alright we are going around in circles. I am telling you we are just scratching the surface of what Ai is capable of. It will inevitably outperform humans. You don't believe that is possible, I am telling you it is inevitable.
I will just leave this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNrXgpSEEIE
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 2 minutes ago
Alright we are going around in circles. I am telling you we are just scratching the surface of what Ai is capable of. It will inevitably outperform humans. You don't believe that is possible, I am telling you it is inevitable.
I will just leave this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNrXgpSEEIE
----------------------------------------------------------------------
your just not understanding at all. Amiga do some research into AI racing.
with current technology AI cannot race quicker than humans ad they will not ... there will need to be a change to the technology in order to do so. thats the facts and I have given you the reasons why.
Current technology means that AI cannot go as quickly cos its all a matter of grip and AI cannot compute when it loses the information its using to compute. in order to go as fast as possible drivers need to break the levels of grip which the AI cannot do.
the link and example you gave proves you are missing the point and dont understand why current technology cannot and will not out perform race car drivers. im not saying that it cant be done just that with current technology it cannot be done.
that will inevitable change no doubt. but i dont think its ever a route anyone will go down as there is no point.
posted on 23/8/22
The point I am making is people have already dismissed what Ai is capable of. There is a massive revolution taking place, and Ai is part of that.
The best Ai programmers are not working in race teams. The Tesla Ai team is doing something very different from everyone else, they are thinking outside the box, and from what I am seeing will reap huge rewards.
I am telling you, Ai will inevitably outperform humans. It is only a matter of time.
posted on 23/8/22
give me one example of an AI race car being better than a pro race car.
there have been thousands and thousands of laps done on the Nürburgring in AI cars why are they not quicker than the race drivers? I have told you why they are not but you refuse to acknowledge it. Can you explain why the reasons I gave are not true and therefore explain what I am missing?! Why are the AI not as fast as the race drivers over he last 4 years.
Why hasnt the king of marketing not used this as a marketing tool for his AI tesla's being quicker round a track than pro drivers. You dont think if Musk could get his cars to outperform the best humans on the planet he wouldnt let the world know?
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 51 seconds ago
I am telling you, Ai will inevitably outperform humans. It is only a matter of time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AI in its current state will never beat a human pro driver round a track (within reason). It never has, and there is no evidence to show that under current technology that it can or will.
prove me wrong
posted on 23/8/22
I can't give you that example. It is not the biggest thing being worked on. If the best resources were poured into beating a human racing driver, it would happen.
To be honest solving the complexities of self driving seems a far bigger problem
posted on 23/8/22
I have said numerous times that AI will and can outperform the average human who has not been taught how to drive a car round a track and quickly before.
It wont and cant outperform the pros.
"Ai will inevitably outperform humans." just a pointless open ended statement that means nothing.
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 1 minute ago
I can't give you that example. It is not the biggest thing being worked on. If the best resources were poured into beating a human racing driver, it would happen.
To be honest solving the complexities of self driving seems a far bigger problem
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BMW have put over 4 years testing into this. pretty much all the major race car manufacturers are using AI race cars for development. Like I said in this particular part of this subject im fairly well educated.
posted on 23/8/22
I hear what you are saying, and it is no different to what professional GO players were saying.
And yes it is an open ended statement. because it is a whole new world, that most people including me know little about. But Ai is changing the world we live in, and nobody working in the ai field will know we are just scratching the surface of what's possible.
posted on 23/8/22
sakes Amiga, take the small tiny insignificant loss.
you made a claim, most of it correct, some of it incorrect or misleading all I did was point it out given that I have a fair amount of knowledge about the subject and is slap bang in the middle of my field of interest.
yes AI cars will be better and safer and quicker than the average human. they will be safer than the very best drivers.
they are and will not (with current technology) be faster than the best drivers.
posted on 23/8/22
BMW have not got the Tesla team working for them. There is a reason they have gone a very different route to everyone else.
There is a woman working in Ai, who in her own words says there are very few elite Ai programmers. They are not just the best they are on a whole different level. puts them as god like.
Tesla have these people, and are doing things others can't even imagine. They are not working in race teams.
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 4 minutes ago
BMW have not got the Tesla team working for them. There is a reason they have gone a very different route to everyone else.
There is a woman working in Ai, who in her own words says there are very few elite Ai programmers. They are not just the best they are on a whole different level. puts them as god like.
Tesla have these people, and are doing things others can't even imagine. They are not working in race teams.
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Tesla are testing the Nurbergring. I only used BMW as an example because I was more familiar with the research and testing they have been doing.
Tesla are testing there all the time also.
Tesla also do a lot of testing at American tracks (in fact im fairly certain Musk purchased a track for testing) regardless of how talented the programmers are they are still working with technology that has limitations and base their calculations on information the can gather and process. Until there is technology available that doesnt require processed information to make decisions then AI will not be quicker round tracks than pro drivers. AI will tell you that what a pro driver i doing is not possible and if does try to mimic what the pro does it loses control cause it cannot predict or make calculations with info it does not have.
posted on 23/8/22
this woman you speak of .... she works for Tesla I assume?
yeah they dont lie at all !?!
posted on 23/8/22
No she has her own Ai company. She watched Tesla's Ai day, and realised how far ahead they were, and in fact lost her best talent to them after it. She is now heavily investing in Tesla, and has switched her Ai strategy, realising it would be stupid to compete with them.
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