To answer the questions above.
I'm into a civic nationism. Anybody who comes to live here is welcome and if they feel Welsh or at least a part of Wales then that's good enough for me.
I'd rather we were an independent republic but, if we do have to have a PoW that isn't Welsh, then if they live here and contribute positively to the country I suppose that would be palatable.
With regards independence then that is what I'd ultimately like. I may not see it in my lifetime though therefore a federal republic would be kind of acceptable I suppose. My fear with that though is that we'd still slip back into how it is now over time.
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - Whiteside has done it again (U21434)
posted 38 seconds ago
Is anyone being critical of the queen as a person? I haven’t seen that, at all.
It’s the institution people cannot bear, not each and every one of the individuals representing it.
++++
This.
Its the lack of ability to be objective about the role of the Monarchy in the UK over being subjective about the behaviour of certain members of the current Royal Family.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do whatever mental gymnastics you need to to make yourself feel better, using the death of the Queen to lament the institution she represented for longer than most of us have been alive is disrespectful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it disrespectful? What's the measuring criteria here?
And who is it disrespectful of? The Queen is dead, so isn't around to hear this discussion (so is incapable of being offended), her family aren't on JA606 to read this and the discussion is about the ongoing existence of the institution, not casting shade upon an individual.
So can you be more specific about the claimed 'disrespect' you think you're observing here? It seems a little vague.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Boy From the South... well?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't spot this.
I don't think think your reply merits much of a response tbh. Many folks on here are clearly using the death of somebody to promote their agenda.
If that's not disrespectful, either to those who may actually be upset about it (not me) or to the institution itself them I'm really not sure what is.
Considering the monarchy is part of the very fabric of this nation, I personally find what you're saying quite offensive.
Not that it matters, in order to think you have to risk being offensive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The status of the monarchy has been discussed on here many, many times over. That the head of that monarchy is no longer around quite naturally elicits the response... 'What now?'. The monarchy is all over the news on every channel and in many parts of the world RIGHT NOW. Having a calm discussion about its ongoing going existence is very timely. There's literally nothing 'disrespectful' about it, and you've still not detailed what makes talking about this subject disrespectful. You're just reasserting that you think it's disrespectful without showing any of your workings out.
You think abolitionist positions are 'offensive'? How? And why? And what do you mean by "the very fabric of this nation", exactly? Having a monarchy isn't a law of physics. It's not etched permanently into the fibres of the universe. It's a set of easily changeable human choices, which should be made on merit and in accordance with an agreed and coherent set of ethical principles.
I'm not even sure you know what you're saying anymore. I certainly don't!
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 3 hours, 50 minutes ago
comment by Eagle Fang (U9028)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 10 minutes ago
The UK is failing with a monarchy so they're obviously not helping. If that's the case what's the point in keeping the planets biggest spongers when so many hard working people struggle just to make ends meet?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How’s the monarchy to blame for whats going on?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the point, with or without them the UK is circling the drain. So I ask again why keep the world's biggest spongers when so many people in the country are struggling to make ends meet?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you realise how much the UK benefits financially from the Royal Family?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This myth again.
Do you realise the UK would benefit financially even more without them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it a myth that Their contribution is 1.8bn a year , 550mill in tourism and 150 mill in trade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where does the other 1.1bn come from?
comment by RB&W - Whiteside has done it again (U21434)
posted 1 minute ago
My dads family was evacuated to Colwyn Bay from Manchester as so many were to N Wales during WW2. It was there as a child that my Dads interest in N Wales grew and they did not return to Stockport until the mid 50s as the Luftwaffe flattened it.
From being a UK child myself, under the influence of my father's inspiration I have either visited, holidayed, and championed N Wales scores of times and have even worked in North Wales myself as an adult and know this area of the UK like the back of my own hand.
To be still regarded as an outsider by some indigenous residents of N Wales I regretfully find...with respect, and without trying to antagonise anybody, a bit of a kick in the nuts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My Gran was evacuated from Liverpool during WW2 as well. I know the UK is unique in many ways in terms of how close the countries are but, with respect, I still think William is an outsider. You have history here so that's a different matter. I didn't mean to be disrespectful to you by the way as I know you've championed here in the past. Where I live now is 400 yards from the Mountain Zoo by the way!
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
Considering the monarchy is part of the very fabric of this nation, I personally find what you're saying quite offensive.
———
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly the reaction I expected, right on cue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, with genuine respect... That's pretty ridiculous and hilarious in equal measure.
The first half of that sentence is plainly untrue and completely undefined, and the second half is ludicrous given the discussion is both timely and more or less in good faith and reasonably conducted among participants.
And as a bonus, being "offended" is entirely a choice you're making. You can choose not to be offended. In any case, nothing actually happens if you decide in your own head that you are offended by words on a screen that you happen to disagree with. Literally nothing happens either way.
It’s the reaction it deserved.
Diafol, I get there would always be that fear, so an independent Wales would be preferable. I guess the way of speculating on it, however, is that England would likely be a very different place to what it is now were a Federal Republic to ever happen - it’s certainly not something we’d see whilst there’s still so many right wing nationalists, Tories and Monarchists that are ruining the country and Union.
From my own perspective it would be interesting to see. I think there’s value in the Union if there are more equal partners.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - Whiteside has done it again (U21434)
posted 38 seconds ago
Is anyone being critical of the queen as a person? I haven’t seen that, at all.
It’s the institution people cannot bear, not each and every one of the individuals representing it.
++++
This.
Its the lack of ability to be objective about the role of the Monarchy in the UK over being subjective about the behaviour of certain members of the current Royal Family.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do whatever mental gymnastics you need to to make yourself feel better, using the death of the Queen to lament the institution she represented for longer than most of us have been alive is disrespectful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it disrespectful? What's the measuring criteria here?
And who is it disrespectful of? The Queen is dead, so isn't around to hear this discussion (so is incapable of being offended), her family aren't on JA606 to read this and the discussion is about the ongoing existence of the institution, not casting shade upon an individual.
So can you be more specific about the claimed 'disrespect' you think you're observing here? It seems a little vague.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Boy From the South... well?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't spot this.
I don't think think your reply merits much of a response tbh. Many folks on here are clearly using the death of somebody to promote their agenda.
If that's not disrespectful, either to those who may actually be upset about it (not me) or to the institution itself them I'm really not sure what is.
Considering the monarchy is part of the very fabric of this nation, I personally find what you're saying quite offensive.
Not that it matters, in order to think you have to risk being offensive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The status of the monarchy has been discussed on here many, many times over. That the head of that monarchy is no longer around quite naturally elicits the response... 'What now?'. The monarchy is all over the news on every channel and in many parts of the world RIGHT NOW. Having a calm discussion about its ongoing going existence is very timely. There's literally nothing 'disrespectful' about it, and you've still not detailed what makes talking about this subject disrespectful. You're just reasserting that you think it's disrespectful without showing any of your workings out.
You think abolitionist positions are 'offensive'? How? And why? And what do you mean by "the very fabric of this nation", exactly? Having a monarchy isn't a law of physics. It's not etched permanently into the fibres of the universe. It's a set of easily changeable human choices, which should be made on merit and in accordance with an agreed and coherent set of ethical principles.
I'm not even sure you know what you're saying anymore. I certainly don't!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't illicit the response "what now" because the "what now" has been decided and planned for decades. The conversation will always happen and so it should and at such a point that 50% and more are pro-abolition in this country then it should cease to exist (a sad day).
But I stand by the fact that it's disrespectful to use the death of anybody to try and further your own agenda. Especially when that individual is not even in the ground at this point.
I don't think abolitionist views are generally offensive, you've deliberately misinterpreted my point.
I personally (great emphasis on personally) find it offensive that individuals, for the sake of nothing but modernity and some misguided utopian view of equality want to get rid of a millennia old tradition that is uniquely British. Tradition should be cherished.
But me finding it offensive does not mean the conversation shouldn't happen, as I've said.
But frankly, we can go round and round in circles on this and I know that your mind will never be changed, and my personal opinion will also not change on this subject.
So I'd suggest we leave it there.
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
It’s the reaction it deserved.
Diafol, I get there would always be that fear, so an independent Wales would be preferable. I guess the way of speculating on it, however, is that England would likely be a very different place to what it is now were a Federal Republic to ever happen - it’s certainly not something we’d see whilst there’s still so many right wing nationalists, Tories and Monarchists that are ruining the country and Union.
From my own perspective it would be interesting to see. I think there’s value in the Union if there are more equal partners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't care much for indy here before Brexit though. That's when it changed for me. I have no appetite at all to fall out with our neighbours but I also don't want decisions for us made from over the border either. Perhaps if we had a better UK Gov my views wouldn't be the same? I don't know. What I do know is I believe England deserves better too. Thank goodness we have some checks and balances here via devolution.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
Considering the monarchy is part of the very fabric of this nation, I personally find what you're saying quite offensive.
———
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly the reaction I expected, right on cue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, with genuine respect... That's pretty ridiculous and hilarious in equal measure.
The first half of that sentence is plainly untrue and completely undefined, and the second half is ludicrous given the discussion is both timely and more or less in good faith and reasonably conducted among participants.
And as a bonus, being "offended" is entirely a choice you're making. You can choose not to be offended. In any case, nothing actually happens if you decide in your own head that you are offended by words on a screen that you happen to disagree with. Literally nothing happens either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is exactly what I've said twice now?
"I personally (great emphasis on personally) find it offensive that individuals, for the sake of nothing but modernity and some misguided utopian view of equality want to get rid of a millennia old tradition that is uniquely British. Tradition should be cherished.
But me finding it offensive does not mean the conversation shouldn't happen, as I've said."
I'm really not sure how you personally don't class the 1,000 year old monarchy as part of the fabric and culture of this country but again, we will never agree on that so there's absolutely no point continuing to ram our opinions down each other's throats.
Also "with genuine respect" when proceeding to tell somebody how ridiculous and hilarious their personal opinion is, is not showing respect . Couldn't really care less whether you respect what I say or not, just found that amusing.
Brexit is kind of why I think a Federal Republic would be more beneficial for the rest of the home nations, particularly if it’s in the model of Germany. The economy of England would give the rest of them more clout in the event of returning to the EU. This is obviously not something that would happen in our lifetime.
"It doesn't illicit the response "what now" because the "what now" has been decided and planned for decades"
-----------------------------------------------
As I said, the monarchy is not a law of physics. Times change, attitudes evolve, and popular heads of monarchies die. There's no right or wrong time to talk about this subject on a football forum. Doing so is harming no one.
-----------------------------------------------
"But I stand by the fact that it's disrespectful to use the death of anybody to try and further your own agenda."
-----------------------------------------------
But I'm not. I've spoken more or less the same words on this subject for years. And why are you introducing the spooky sounding word "agenda" here? If I have an "agenda", it's to have a rational discussion about unaccountable & unelected power, wealth & privilege. As far as "agendas" go, that's pretty healthy, right?
------------------------------------------------
"Tradition should be cherished."
-------------------------------------------------
Unconditionally? By default? Without critical scrutiny or possible improvements? You surely don't mean this, or simply haven't thought about it enough. Traditions are fine as long as they harm no one. We have plenty of examples of the Royal institution being complicit in harm at both an institutional level and an individual one.
--------------------------------------------------
"But frankly, we can go round and round in circles on this and I know that your mind will never be changed, and my personal opinion will also not change on this subject."
---------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite; I'll gladly flag a union jack and sing God Save the Queen if some arguments for the ongoing existence of a British monarchy can stand up to scrutiny. Vague appeals to "tradition" and sentimentality are not (and rarely are) good arguments. They certainly aren't self-justifying.
I personally (great emphasis on personally) find it offensive that individuals, for the sake of nothing but modernity and some misguided utopian view of equality want to get rid of a millennia old tradition that is uniquely British.
———
This is even better than the last one.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 minute ago
"It doesn't illicit the response "what now" because the "what now" has been decided and planned for decades"
-----------------------------------------------
As I said, the monarchy is not a law of physics. Times change, attitudes evolve, and popular heads of monarchies die. There's no right or wrong time to talk about this subject on a football forum. Doing so is harming no one.
-----------------------------------------------
"But I stand by the fact that it's disrespectful to use the death of anybody to try and further your own agenda."
-----------------------------------------------
But I'm not. I've spoken more or less the same words on this subject for years. And why are you introducing the spooky sounding word "agenda" here? If I have an "agenda", it's to have a rational discussion about unaccountable & unelected power, wealth & privilege. As far as "agendas" go, that's pretty healthy, right?
------------------------------------------------
"Tradition should be cherished."
-------------------------------------------------
Unconditionally? By default? Without critical scrutiny or possible improvements? You surely don't mean this, or simply haven't thought about it enough. Traditions are fine as long as they harm no one. We have plenty of examples of the Royal institution being complicit in harm at both an institutional level and an individual one.
--------------------------------------------------
"But frankly, we can go round and round in circles on this and I know that your mind will never be changed, and my personal opinion will also not change on this subject."
---------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite; I'll gladly flag a union jack and sing God Save the Queen if some arguments for the ongoing existence of a British monarchy can stand up to scrutiny. Vague appeals to "tradition" and sentimentality are not (and rarely are) good arguments. They certainly aren't self-justifying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's your opinion and I respect it.
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
I personally (great emphasis on personally) find it offensive that individuals, for the sake of nothing but modernity and some misguided utopian view of equality want to get rid of a millennia old tradition that is uniquely British.
———
This is even better than the last one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Berba is at least engaging in debate whether I agree with him or not.
You're just a facking idiot
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
Considering the monarchy is part of the very fabric of this nation, I personally find what you're saying quite offensive.
———
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly the reaction I expected, right on cue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, with genuine respect... That's pretty ridiculous and hilarious in equal measure.
The first half of that sentence is plainly untrue and completely undefined, and the second half is ludicrous given the discussion is both timely and more or less in good faith and reasonably conducted among participants.
And as a bonus, being "offended" is entirely a choice you're making. You can choose not to be offended. In any case, nothing actually happens if you decide in your own head that you are offended by words on a screen that you happen to disagree with. Literally nothing happens either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is exactly what I've said twice now?
"I personally (great emphasis on personally) find it offensive that individuals, for the sake of nothing but modernity and some misguided utopian view of equality want to get rid of a millennia old tradition that is uniquely British. Tradition should be cherished.
But me finding it offensive does not mean the conversation shouldn't happen, as I've said."
I'm really not sure how you personally don't class the 1,000 year old monarchy as part of the fabric and culture of this country but again, we will never agree on that so there's absolutely no point continuing to ram our opinions down each other's throats.
Also "with genuine respect" when proceeding to tell somebody how ridiculous and hilarious their personal opinion is, is not showing respect. Couldn't really care less whether you respect what I say or not, just found that amusing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually I'm saying that you should just choose to not be offended, given it is a choice. Disagree by all means, by choose to take offence when you can... Choose not to? It's a curious phenomenon to me. There's nothing that can be said to me that I find offensive because I can simply choose not to take offence. So I'm just wondered why you're offended given your ability to choose literally any other type of response you wish?
And you'd only made that point once by the time I'd written the above.
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 6 minutes ago
Brexit is kind of why I think a Federal Republic would be more beneficial for the rest of the home nations, particularly if it’s in the model of Germany. The economy of England would give the rest of them more clout in the event of returning to the EU. This is obviously not something that would happen in our lifetime.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
These last few years if I didn't know any better I'd say that the Tories have been actively trying to break up the UK! Independence supporters in Scotland and here couldn't have done a better job drumming up support!
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
I personally (great emphasis on personally) find it offensive that individuals, for the sake of nothing but modernity and some misguided utopian view of equality want to get rid of a millennia old tradition that is uniquely British.
———
This is even better than the last one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Berba is at least engaging in debate whether I agree with him or not.
You're just a facking idiot
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There’s not really any point in ‘engaging in debate’ with such hilariously stupid opinions.
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
I personally (great emphasis on personally) find it offensive that individuals, for the sake of nothing but modernity and some misguided utopian view of equality want to get rid of a millennia old tradition that is uniquely British.
———
This is even better than the last one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Berba is at least engaging in debate whether I agree with him or not.
You're just a facking idiot
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There’s not really any point in ‘engaging in debate’ with such hilariously stupid opinions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahh. Modern society in a nutshell.
"YOU'RE STUPID"
"NO, YOU'RE STUPID".
We should be so proud.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 6 minutes ago
Brexit is kind of why I think a Federal Republic would be more beneficial for the rest of the home nations, particularly if it’s in the model of Germany. The economy of England would give the rest of them more clout in the event of returning to the EU. This is obviously not something that would happen in our lifetime.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
These last few years if I didn't know any better I'd say that the Tories have been actively trying to break up the UK! Independence supporters in Scotland and here couldn't have done a better job drumming up support!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You overestimate their competence.
You continually make stupid posts, get offended and then cry when people inevitably just laugh at you. Crying Tories are the problem with society.
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 54 minutes ago
Mentioned it last night, but would be interesting to hear your views, Diafol/Babyen.
How would you feel about a Federal Republic of Britain?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven’t given it much thought to be honest. I suppose the devil would be in the detail. Anything that gives more powers to run Wales from Wales would be a step in the right direction for me. The ideal though would be independence. Although things like security and military would need very careful consideration.
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
You continually make stupid posts, get offended and then cry when people inevitably just laugh at you. Crying Tories are the problem with society.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not a Tory, your continuing to label me as such makes you look incredibly immature and foolish.
The first national anthem with the king.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6YsHmyQQWU
Can anyone spot Boris?
Berbaking, where's that "accountability" you were talking about with politicians?
comment by 🏴 (U9094)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 54 minutes ago
Mentioned it last night, but would be interesting to hear your views, Diafol/Babyen.
How would you feel about a Federal Republic of Britain?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven’t given it much thought to be honest. I suppose the devil would be in the detail. Anything that gives more powers to run Wales from Wales would be a step in the right direction for me. The ideal though would be independence. Although things like security and military would need very careful consideration.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve never really seen much discourse on it. Was just something that occurred to me. I guess the issue with the German model is that they didn’t have quite the same balance of power towards one state in a way Britain does.
Though it would be interesting to see whether a federal system could see more autonomy across the counties, to alleviate that issue, especially considering how centralised everything is in London - it’s not just the Welsh, Scottish and NI that suffer because of this.
comment by 🏴 (U9094)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by GregUnited (U1192)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by RB&W - Whiteside has done it again (U21434)
posted 18 seconds ago
Come on, Diafol, labelling non-welsh British people as outsiders isn't a helpful term in this day and age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are though to be fair. There's nothing wrong with that and I'd always advocate a warm welcome for the representatives of any country who visit here but the title is a bit of an insult IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How welcoming are the Welsh, to the English? Genuine question.
I spent a couple weeks in multiple towns across Wales, each one I was in I had feelings of being unwelcomed. Conversations quickly went from English to Welsh when they realised an English person was in the vicinity, the not so happy looks directed towards me.
Of course there were plenty of nice people too, but that is the feeling I got while there.
Does that happen to the Welsh when they visit England?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Conversations quickly turned to Welsh when they realised an English person was in the vicinity?
Was this maybe because they are Welsh speakers that are used to conversing with eachother in Welsh do you think? Or do you believe that they did this on purpose because you were there?
Maybe the not so happy looks directed towards you wasn’t because you were English? Just a thought.
And yes, I’ve often had a funny look when I converse in Welsh whilst in England.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As you know Diafol, I have holidayed many times in Wales, and worked there too in Holywell and Ynys Mon.
Nearly all the people I met were great and I got on well with them. They spoke Welsh because they were Welsh and lived in Wales, but would speak in English to include me. Just as they speak French here in France.
Sign in if you want to comment
The constitution
Page 15 of 21
16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20
posted on 12/9/22
To answer the questions above.
I'm into a civic nationism. Anybody who comes to live here is welcome and if they feel Welsh or at least a part of Wales then that's good enough for me.
I'd rather we were an independent republic but, if we do have to have a PoW that isn't Welsh, then if they live here and contribute positively to the country I suppose that would be palatable.
With regards independence then that is what I'd ultimately like. I may not see it in my lifetime though therefore a federal republic would be kind of acceptable I suppose. My fear with that though is that we'd still slip back into how it is now over time.
posted on 12/9/22
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - Whiteside has done it again (U21434)
posted 38 seconds ago
Is anyone being critical of the queen as a person? I haven’t seen that, at all.
It’s the institution people cannot bear, not each and every one of the individuals representing it.
++++
This.
Its the lack of ability to be objective about the role of the Monarchy in the UK over being subjective about the behaviour of certain members of the current Royal Family.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do whatever mental gymnastics you need to to make yourself feel better, using the death of the Queen to lament the institution she represented for longer than most of us have been alive is disrespectful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it disrespectful? What's the measuring criteria here?
And who is it disrespectful of? The Queen is dead, so isn't around to hear this discussion (so is incapable of being offended), her family aren't on JA606 to read this and the discussion is about the ongoing existence of the institution, not casting shade upon an individual.
So can you be more specific about the claimed 'disrespect' you think you're observing here? It seems a little vague.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Boy From the South... well?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't spot this.
I don't think think your reply merits much of a response tbh. Many folks on here are clearly using the death of somebody to promote their agenda.
If that's not disrespectful, either to those who may actually be upset about it (not me) or to the institution itself them I'm really not sure what is.
Considering the monarchy is part of the very fabric of this nation, I personally find what you're saying quite offensive.
Not that it matters, in order to think you have to risk being offensive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The status of the monarchy has been discussed on here many, many times over. That the head of that monarchy is no longer around quite naturally elicits the response... 'What now?'. The monarchy is all over the news on every channel and in many parts of the world RIGHT NOW. Having a calm discussion about its ongoing going existence is very timely. There's literally nothing 'disrespectful' about it, and you've still not detailed what makes talking about this subject disrespectful. You're just reasserting that you think it's disrespectful without showing any of your workings out.
You think abolitionist positions are 'offensive'? How? And why? And what do you mean by "the very fabric of this nation", exactly? Having a monarchy isn't a law of physics. It's not etched permanently into the fibres of the universe. It's a set of easily changeable human choices, which should be made on merit and in accordance with an agreed and coherent set of ethical principles.
I'm not even sure you know what you're saying anymore. I certainly don't!
posted on 12/9/22
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 3 hours, 50 minutes ago
comment by Eagle Fang (U9028)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 10 minutes ago
The UK is failing with a monarchy so they're obviously not helping. If that's the case what's the point in keeping the planets biggest spongers when so many hard working people struggle just to make ends meet?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How’s the monarchy to blame for whats going on?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the point, with or without them the UK is circling the drain. So I ask again why keep the world's biggest spongers when so many people in the country are struggling to make ends meet?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you realise how much the UK benefits financially from the Royal Family?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This myth again.
Do you realise the UK would benefit financially even more without them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it a myth that Their contribution is 1.8bn a year , 550mill in tourism and 150 mill in trade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where does the other 1.1bn come from?
posted on 12/9/22
comment by RB&W - Whiteside has done it again (U21434)
posted 1 minute ago
My dads family was evacuated to Colwyn Bay from Manchester as so many were to N Wales during WW2. It was there as a child that my Dads interest in N Wales grew and they did not return to Stockport until the mid 50s as the Luftwaffe flattened it.
From being a UK child myself, under the influence of my father's inspiration I have either visited, holidayed, and championed N Wales scores of times and have even worked in North Wales myself as an adult and know this area of the UK like the back of my own hand.
To be still regarded as an outsider by some indigenous residents of N Wales I regretfully find...with respect, and without trying to antagonise anybody, a bit of a kick in the nuts.
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My Gran was evacuated from Liverpool during WW2 as well. I know the UK is unique in many ways in terms of how close the countries are but, with respect, I still think William is an outsider. You have history here so that's a different matter. I didn't mean to be disrespectful to you by the way as I know you've championed here in the past. Where I live now is 400 yards from the Mountain Zoo by the way!
posted on 12/9/22
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
Considering the monarchy is part of the very fabric of this nation, I personally find what you're saying quite offensive.
———
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Exactly the reaction I expected, right on cue.
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I mean, with genuine respect... That's pretty ridiculous and hilarious in equal measure.
The first half of that sentence is plainly untrue and completely undefined, and the second half is ludicrous given the discussion is both timely and more or less in good faith and reasonably conducted among participants.
And as a bonus, being "offended" is entirely a choice you're making. You can choose not to be offended. In any case, nothing actually happens if you decide in your own head that you are offended by words on a screen that you happen to disagree with. Literally nothing happens either way.
posted on 12/9/22
It’s the reaction it deserved.
Diafol, I get there would always be that fear, so an independent Wales would be preferable. I guess the way of speculating on it, however, is that England would likely be a very different place to what it is now were a Federal Republic to ever happen - it’s certainly not something we’d see whilst there’s still so many right wing nationalists, Tories and Monarchists that are ruining the country and Union.
From my own perspective it would be interesting to see. I think there’s value in the Union if there are more equal partners.
posted on 12/9/22
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - Whiteside has done it again (U21434)
posted 38 seconds ago
Is anyone being critical of the queen as a person? I haven’t seen that, at all.
It’s the institution people cannot bear, not each and every one of the individuals representing it.
++++
This.
Its the lack of ability to be objective about the role of the Monarchy in the UK over being subjective about the behaviour of certain members of the current Royal Family.
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Do whatever mental gymnastics you need to to make yourself feel better, using the death of the Queen to lament the institution she represented for longer than most of us have been alive is disrespectful.
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Why is it disrespectful? What's the measuring criteria here?
And who is it disrespectful of? The Queen is dead, so isn't around to hear this discussion (so is incapable of being offended), her family aren't on JA606 to read this and the discussion is about the ongoing existence of the institution, not casting shade upon an individual.
So can you be more specific about the claimed 'disrespect' you think you're observing here? It seems a little vague.
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Boy From the South... well?
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Didn't spot this.
I don't think think your reply merits much of a response tbh. Many folks on here are clearly using the death of somebody to promote their agenda.
If that's not disrespectful, either to those who may actually be upset about it (not me) or to the institution itself them I'm really not sure what is.
Considering the monarchy is part of the very fabric of this nation, I personally find what you're saying quite offensive.
Not that it matters, in order to think you have to risk being offensive.
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The status of the monarchy has been discussed on here many, many times over. That the head of that monarchy is no longer around quite naturally elicits the response... 'What now?'. The monarchy is all over the news on every channel and in many parts of the world RIGHT NOW. Having a calm discussion about its ongoing going existence is very timely. There's literally nothing 'disrespectful' about it, and you've still not detailed what makes talking about this subject disrespectful. You're just reasserting that you think it's disrespectful without showing any of your workings out.
You think abolitionist positions are 'offensive'? How? And why? And what do you mean by "the very fabric of this nation", exactly? Having a monarchy isn't a law of physics. It's not etched permanently into the fibres of the universe. It's a set of easily changeable human choices, which should be made on merit and in accordance with an agreed and coherent set of ethical principles.
I'm not even sure you know what you're saying anymore. I certainly don't!
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It doesn't illicit the response "what now" because the "what now" has been decided and planned for decades. The conversation will always happen and so it should and at such a point that 50% and more are pro-abolition in this country then it should cease to exist (a sad day).
But I stand by the fact that it's disrespectful to use the death of anybody to try and further your own agenda. Especially when that individual is not even in the ground at this point.
I don't think abolitionist views are generally offensive, you've deliberately misinterpreted my point.
I personally (great emphasis on personally) find it offensive that individuals, for the sake of nothing but modernity and some misguided utopian view of equality want to get rid of a millennia old tradition that is uniquely British. Tradition should be cherished.
But me finding it offensive does not mean the conversation shouldn't happen, as I've said.
But frankly, we can go round and round in circles on this and I know that your mind will never be changed, and my personal opinion will also not change on this subject.
So I'd suggest we leave it there.
posted on 12/9/22
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
It’s the reaction it deserved.
Diafol, I get there would always be that fear, so an independent Wales would be preferable. I guess the way of speculating on it, however, is that England would likely be a very different place to what it is now were a Federal Republic to ever happen - it’s certainly not something we’d see whilst there’s still so many right wing nationalists, Tories and Monarchists that are ruining the country and Union.
From my own perspective it would be interesting to see. I think there’s value in the Union if there are more equal partners.
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I didn't care much for indy here before Brexit though. That's when it changed for me. I have no appetite at all to fall out with our neighbours but I also don't want decisions for us made from over the border either. Perhaps if we had a better UK Gov my views wouldn't be the same? I don't know. What I do know is I believe England deserves better too. Thank goodness we have some checks and balances here via devolution.
posted on 12/9/22
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
Considering the monarchy is part of the very fabric of this nation, I personally find what you're saying quite offensive.
———
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly the reaction I expected, right on cue.
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I mean, with genuine respect... That's pretty ridiculous and hilarious in equal measure.
The first half of that sentence is plainly untrue and completely undefined, and the second half is ludicrous given the discussion is both timely and more or less in good faith and reasonably conducted among participants.
And as a bonus, being "offended" is entirely a choice you're making. You can choose not to be offended. In any case, nothing actually happens if you decide in your own head that you are offended by words on a screen that you happen to disagree with. Literally nothing happens either way.
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Which is exactly what I've said twice now?
"I personally (great emphasis on personally) find it offensive that individuals, for the sake of nothing but modernity and some misguided utopian view of equality want to get rid of a millennia old tradition that is uniquely British. Tradition should be cherished.
But me finding it offensive does not mean the conversation shouldn't happen, as I've said."
I'm really not sure how you personally don't class the 1,000 year old monarchy as part of the fabric and culture of this country but again, we will never agree on that so there's absolutely no point continuing to ram our opinions down each other's throats.
Also "with genuine respect" when proceeding to tell somebody how ridiculous and hilarious their personal opinion is, is not showing respect . Couldn't really care less whether you respect what I say or not, just found that amusing.
posted on 12/9/22
Brexit is kind of why I think a Federal Republic would be more beneficial for the rest of the home nations, particularly if it’s in the model of Germany. The economy of England would give the rest of them more clout in the event of returning to the EU. This is obviously not something that would happen in our lifetime.
posted on 12/9/22
"It doesn't illicit the response "what now" because the "what now" has been decided and planned for decades"
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As I said, the monarchy is not a law of physics. Times change, attitudes evolve, and popular heads of monarchies die. There's no right or wrong time to talk about this subject on a football forum. Doing so is harming no one.
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"But I stand by the fact that it's disrespectful to use the death of anybody to try and further your own agenda."
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But I'm not. I've spoken more or less the same words on this subject for years. And why are you introducing the spooky sounding word "agenda" here? If I have an "agenda", it's to have a rational discussion about unaccountable & unelected power, wealth & privilege. As far as "agendas" go, that's pretty healthy, right?
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"Tradition should be cherished."
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Unconditionally? By default? Without critical scrutiny or possible improvements? You surely don't mean this, or simply haven't thought about it enough. Traditions are fine as long as they harm no one. We have plenty of examples of the Royal institution being complicit in harm at both an institutional level and an individual one.
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"But frankly, we can go round and round in circles on this and I know that your mind will never be changed, and my personal opinion will also not change on this subject."
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Quite the opposite; I'll gladly flag a union jack and sing God Save the Queen if some arguments for the ongoing existence of a British monarchy can stand up to scrutiny. Vague appeals to "tradition" and sentimentality are not (and rarely are) good arguments. They certainly aren't self-justifying.
posted on 12/9/22
I personally (great emphasis on personally) find it offensive that individuals, for the sake of nothing but modernity and some misguided utopian view of equality want to get rid of a millennia old tradition that is uniquely British.
———
This is even better than the last one.
posted on 12/9/22
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 minute ago
"It doesn't illicit the response "what now" because the "what now" has been decided and planned for decades"
-----------------------------------------------
As I said, the monarchy is not a law of physics. Times change, attitudes evolve, and popular heads of monarchies die. There's no right or wrong time to talk about this subject on a football forum. Doing so is harming no one.
-----------------------------------------------
"But I stand by the fact that it's disrespectful to use the death of anybody to try and further your own agenda."
-----------------------------------------------
But I'm not. I've spoken more or less the same words on this subject for years. And why are you introducing the spooky sounding word "agenda" here? If I have an "agenda", it's to have a rational discussion about unaccountable & unelected power, wealth & privilege. As far as "agendas" go, that's pretty healthy, right?
------------------------------------------------
"Tradition should be cherished."
-------------------------------------------------
Unconditionally? By default? Without critical scrutiny or possible improvements? You surely don't mean this, or simply haven't thought about it enough. Traditions are fine as long as they harm no one. We have plenty of examples of the Royal institution being complicit in harm at both an institutional level and an individual one.
--------------------------------------------------
"But frankly, we can go round and round in circles on this and I know that your mind will never be changed, and my personal opinion will also not change on this subject."
---------------------------------------------------
Quite the opposite; I'll gladly flag a union jack and sing God Save the Queen if some arguments for the ongoing existence of a British monarchy can stand up to scrutiny. Vague appeals to "tradition" and sentimentality are not (and rarely are) good arguments. They certainly aren't self-justifying.
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That's your opinion and I respect it.
posted on 12/9/22
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
I personally (great emphasis on personally) find it offensive that individuals, for the sake of nothing but modernity and some misguided utopian view of equality want to get rid of a millennia old tradition that is uniquely British.
———
This is even better than the last one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Berba is at least engaging in debate whether I agree with him or not.
You're just a facking idiot
posted on 12/9/22
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
Considering the monarchy is part of the very fabric of this nation, I personally find what you're saying quite offensive.
———
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly the reaction I expected, right on cue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, with genuine respect... That's pretty ridiculous and hilarious in equal measure.
The first half of that sentence is plainly untrue and completely undefined, and the second half is ludicrous given the discussion is both timely and more or less in good faith and reasonably conducted among participants.
And as a bonus, being "offended" is entirely a choice you're making. You can choose not to be offended. In any case, nothing actually happens if you decide in your own head that you are offended by words on a screen that you happen to disagree with. Literally nothing happens either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is exactly what I've said twice now?
"I personally (great emphasis on personally) find it offensive that individuals, for the sake of nothing but modernity and some misguided utopian view of equality want to get rid of a millennia old tradition that is uniquely British. Tradition should be cherished.
But me finding it offensive does not mean the conversation shouldn't happen, as I've said."
I'm really not sure how you personally don't class the 1,000 year old monarchy as part of the fabric and culture of this country but again, we will never agree on that so there's absolutely no point continuing to ram our opinions down each other's throats.
Also "with genuine respect" when proceeding to tell somebody how ridiculous and hilarious their personal opinion is, is not showing respect. Couldn't really care less whether you respect what I say or not, just found that amusing.
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Actually I'm saying that you should just choose to not be offended, given it is a choice. Disagree by all means, by choose to take offence when you can... Choose not to? It's a curious phenomenon to me. There's nothing that can be said to me that I find offensive because I can simply choose not to take offence. So I'm just wondered why you're offended given your ability to choose literally any other type of response you wish?
And you'd only made that point once by the time I'd written the above.
posted on 12/9/22
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 6 minutes ago
Brexit is kind of why I think a Federal Republic would be more beneficial for the rest of the home nations, particularly if it’s in the model of Germany. The economy of England would give the rest of them more clout in the event of returning to the EU. This is obviously not something that would happen in our lifetime.
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These last few years if I didn't know any better I'd say that the Tories have been actively trying to break up the UK! Independence supporters in Scotland and here couldn't have done a better job drumming up support!
posted on 12/9/22
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
I personally (great emphasis on personally) find it offensive that individuals, for the sake of nothing but modernity and some misguided utopian view of equality want to get rid of a millennia old tradition that is uniquely British.
———
This is even better than the last one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Berba is at least engaging in debate whether I agree with him or not.
You're just a facking idiot
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There’s not really any point in ‘engaging in debate’ with such hilariously stupid opinions.
posted on 12/9/22
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Boy From The South (U3979)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
I personally (great emphasis on personally) find it offensive that individuals, for the sake of nothing but modernity and some misguided utopian view of equality want to get rid of a millennia old tradition that is uniquely British.
———
This is even better than the last one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Berba is at least engaging in debate whether I agree with him or not.
You're just a facking idiot
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There’s not really any point in ‘engaging in debate’ with such hilariously stupid opinions.
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Ahh. Modern society in a nutshell.
"YOU'RE STUPID"
"NO, YOU'RE STUPID".
We should be so proud.
posted on 12/9/22
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 6 minutes ago
Brexit is kind of why I think a Federal Republic would be more beneficial for the rest of the home nations, particularly if it’s in the model of Germany. The economy of England would give the rest of them more clout in the event of returning to the EU. This is obviously not something that would happen in our lifetime.
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These last few years if I didn't know any better I'd say that the Tories have been actively trying to break up the UK! Independence supporters in Scotland and here couldn't have done a better job drumming up support!
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You overestimate their competence.
posted on 12/9/22
You continually make stupid posts, get offended and then cry when people inevitably just laugh at you. Crying Tories are the problem with society.
posted on 12/9/22
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 54 minutes ago
Mentioned it last night, but would be interesting to hear your views, Diafol/Babyen.
How would you feel about a Federal Republic of Britain?
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I haven’t given it much thought to be honest. I suppose the devil would be in the detail. Anything that gives more powers to run Wales from Wales would be a step in the right direction for me. The ideal though would be independence. Although things like security and military would need very careful consideration.
posted on 12/9/22
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
You continually make stupid posts, get offended and then cry when people inevitably just laugh at you. Crying Tories are the problem with society.
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I'm not a Tory, your continuing to label me as such makes you look incredibly immature and foolish.
posted on 12/9/22
The first national anthem with the king.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6YsHmyQQWU
Can anyone spot Boris?
Berbaking, where's that "accountability" you were talking about with politicians?
posted on 12/9/22
comment by 🏴 (U9094)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Marcus The Triumvir Antony (U10026)
posted 54 minutes ago
Mentioned it last night, but would be interesting to hear your views, Diafol/Babyen.
How would you feel about a Federal Republic of Britain?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven’t given it much thought to be honest. I suppose the devil would be in the detail. Anything that gives more powers to run Wales from Wales would be a step in the right direction for me. The ideal though would be independence. Although things like security and military would need very careful consideration.
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I’ve never really seen much discourse on it. Was just something that occurred to me. I guess the issue with the German model is that they didn’t have quite the same balance of power towards one state in a way Britain does.
Though it would be interesting to see whether a federal system could see more autonomy across the counties, to alleviate that issue, especially considering how centralised everything is in London - it’s not just the Welsh, Scottish and NI that suffer because of this.
posted on 12/9/22
comment by 🏴 (U9094)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by GregUnited (U1192)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by RB&W - Whiteside has done it again (U21434)
posted 18 seconds ago
Come on, Diafol, labelling non-welsh British people as outsiders isn't a helpful term in this day and age.
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They are though to be fair. There's nothing wrong with that and I'd always advocate a warm welcome for the representatives of any country who visit here but the title is a bit of an insult IMO.
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How welcoming are the Welsh, to the English? Genuine question.
I spent a couple weeks in multiple towns across Wales, each one I was in I had feelings of being unwelcomed. Conversations quickly went from English to Welsh when they realised an English person was in the vicinity, the not so happy looks directed towards me.
Of course there were plenty of nice people too, but that is the feeling I got while there.
Does that happen to the Welsh when they visit England?
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Conversations quickly turned to Welsh when they realised an English person was in the vicinity?
Was this maybe because they are Welsh speakers that are used to conversing with eachother in Welsh do you think? Or do you believe that they did this on purpose because you were there?
Maybe the not so happy looks directed towards you wasn’t because you were English? Just a thought.
And yes, I’ve often had a funny look when I converse in Welsh whilst in England.
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As you know Diafol, I have holidayed many times in Wales, and worked there too in Holywell and Ynys Mon.
Nearly all the people I met were great and I got on well with them. They spoke Welsh because they were Welsh and lived in Wales, but would speak in English to include me. Just as they speak French here in France.
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