Southgate is a decent manager and my only criticism of him is that he plays his faves.
One way to stop Mbappe today was to give them cause the other way. Rashford should have started that game.
I also do not know what he sees in Rice. He's a mediocre football player.
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 minutes ago
Southgate is a decent manager and my only criticism of him is that he plays his faves.
One way to stop Mbappe today was to give them cause the other way. Rashford should have started that game.
I also do not know what he sees in Rice. He's a mediocre football player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Irony there is pre-tournament he was lambasted for playing his favorite Maguire and yet Maguire was a stand out for us all tournament.
Sometimes I think keeping the faith with a nucleus for the internationals works better than the club game
I don't think Southgate gets much "hate" at all, obviously if you look at hs record pre England, it suggests he is a mediocre coach so there will always be questions when England exit tournaments.
People will have different opinions on his record so far, if you look at major tournaments, semi, final, quarters. Great record. If you look a bit deeper at the context, in those 3 tournaments, we beat one team which wouldn't have been a complete shock if we lost to, and that was a Germany team who has struggled at every tournament since.
Every other good team we have played have beaten us... Croatia, Belgium, Italy, France.
The best thing about this england team has been like you say the like of drama, and the perception of team spirit.
The actual results, has been like the majority of england teams over the last 20 years, as soon as we face a quality team in the knockout stages we tend to get beat.
He's far too cautious and, as previously mentioned, insists on playing his favourites. If Sterling and Mount are the answer, then gawd knows the question. I was genuinely baffled that he didn't bring Wilson on as an extra threat in the air. French struggled with high balls all game.
Were there far better England squads than this one?
We've had better first choice defences and midfield but never the attacking depth that this squad has, and I think that's the point when criticising Southgate.
For me there are two things that turn me off Southgate:
his tendency to go negative and defensive - which I'm not criticising him for yesterday
His in game management and use of substitutions, which I am criticising him for yesterday.
When has England ever had far better squads?
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 40 minutes ago
Southgate is a decent manager and my only criticism of him is that he plays his faves.
One way to stop Mbappe today was to give them cause the other way. Rashford should have started that game.
I also do not know what he sees in Rice. He's a mediocre football player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mbappe was stopped yesterday, so not sure what you mean here. Who should Rashford have replaced in the starting 11? Saka was MOTM (and shouldn't have been subbed). Foden's played well since starting in the groups. Both have also been far better than Rashford for at least 2 seasons, so why would he start above them in a big knockout match?
Rice was also one of the best players yesterday, so not sure how he gets criticism here. Odd.
It was a decent England performance but in the end toothless. If your only goal threat comes from pens, you won’t win tournaments. But just look who is left: dour and defensive Morocco and Croatia, and pretty average France and Argentina teams. It’s been a strange World Cup all in all.
comment by Dwight K Schrute (U22590)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 minutes ago
Southgate is a decent manager and my only criticism of him is that he plays his faves.
One way to stop Mbappe today was to give them cause the other way. Rashford should have started that game.
I also do not know what he sees in Rice. He's a mediocre football player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Irony there is pre-tournament he was lambasted for playing his favorite Maguire and yet Maguire was a stand out for us all tournament.
Sometimes I think keeping the faith with a nucleus for the internationals works better than the club game
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His Maguire was at fault for Giroud goal. Yes he was a threat from set pieces on other end, but his defensive frailties showed up when it mattered. At the end, Southgate favs were the downfall. But he’s created stability, yet there’s no tactical nous to beat teams better than them on paper.
We need Selina Weighman to take over
Thought he did everything right last night until he had to make subs, the subs killed the game for us.
First of all, there were goal threats besides penalties. Indeed it was because we had a goal threat that they fouled us.
We were playing the world champions and matched them.
Harry missing a penalty isn't down to Southgate. We should have got to extra time.
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 4 minutes ago
First of all, there were goal threats besides penalties. Indeed it was because we had a goal threat that they fouled us.
We were playing the world champions and matched them.
Harry missing a penalty isn't down to Southgate. We should have got to extra time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bringing on sterling and mount (admittedly he won the pen) was down to him though.
Chasing a game and bringing on Sterling is criminal, he’s been in awful form all season.
England did OK, but the bar is not set that high these days in International football. Standard is pretty low right now.
comment by Christ We Won (TENƎꓕ) (U17162)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
When has England ever had far better squads?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eriksson and Capello both had far better squads to work with, IMO.
Southgate is a decent bloke and has done well to unite the squad and country.
But that's now 3 good chances of a major trophy gone. Last night we were OK, but still created very little. We were also better when losing and France sat off. After we equalised the game was there for the taking but France looked the more likely and eventually scored.
I feel like he's had his chance now. We have seriously good young attackers and Kane probably only has two more tournaments left in him. Now would be a good time for a change to a more attacking manager.
It was a decent England performance but in the end toothless. If your only goal threat comes from pens, you won’t win tournaments.
—————
Well, it doesn’t, does it? France committed three fouls in their box last night as they were under pressure. Maguire also missed a header he’d score most times, Bellingham had a great hit tipped over…
In a game between two top sides, you’re not going to carve out loads of chances. The fact that England had two penalties and should have had three suggests that France were struggling to stop England creating.
If Kane scored both penalties and we went into ET at 2-2, we’d have deserved it - regardless of how the goals went in.
comment by Prof Rosso Curtice - mapping SOTY polling trends in real time (U17054)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Christ We Won (TENƎꓕ) (U17162)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
When has England ever had far better squads?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eriksson and Capello both had far better squads to work with, IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those managers never had a chance, rivalry in club football was too bitter to allow any sort of togetherness.
comment by Prof Rosso Curtice - mapping SOTY polling trends in real time (U17054)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Christ We Won (TENƎꓕ) (U17162)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
When has England ever had far better squads?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eriksson and Capello both had far better squads to work with, IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm… I’m not sure. Eriksson had an incredible England defence (on paper) for a while. There was always a question mark about the left-midfield spot, with the likes of Wayne Bridge, Owen Hargreaves, Scholes and Heskey all being tried out there before Joe Cole. 2010… just checked and Shaun Wright-Phillips was in that World Cup squad!
I’m not sure we’ve ever been as blessed in attack as we are now.
Never been his biggest fan but that was largely to playing incredibly defensive football with 3 CBs and 2 CDMs in the past. My opinion of him this tournament has definitely gone up as he got his tactics pretty much spot on, and I'd like to see him persist with them into the Euros.
Shame it took him 3 goes though.
I’d take prime Rooney, Owen and Walcott over Kane, Rashford and Wilson.
Southgate has better wingers and support players, but Eriksson’s midfield and defensive options were a level above the current batch.
If Eriksson matched up against Southgate’s midfield three, he’d be able to select from Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick and Hargreaves.
In 2006, he had a back four of Neville, Ferdinand, Terry/Campbell and Cole.
Different class, IMO.
As many have said, Southgate beats the expected teams and then loses to the first decent outfit.
England were the better team last night and it should have gone on to extra time, cant say what would have happened but the dreaded penalty shootout was looming
We definitely have better wide forward players now but the game has changed
Going back further McManaman, anderton etc would have played those roles just as well maybe better
This is the worse striker options I can remember having …we have Kane and that’s it …Wilson is only there cos there is no one else
I Remember when there was shearer. Sheringham , Ferdinand , Fowler , wright (who couldn’t get to a tournament)
Those were all top class options
Eriksen definitely had a better squad as did Capello
Southgate is doing okay with the striker options he has which is naff all
comment by Prof Rosso Curtice - mapping SOTY polling trends in real time (U17054)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Christ We Won (TENƎꓕ) (U17162)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
When has England ever had far better squads?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eriksson and Capello both had far better squads to work with, IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eriksson's 2002 squad only had world class quality in defense. No Gerrard and Lampard in midfield (think Gerrard was injured). Still fielding the likes of Heskey and Vassell in attack. Too many plodders in that team.
2006 and 2010 had quality in defense and midfield. But still short of quality in attack (both forwards and wide players), bar Rooney. Likes of Downing, Wright-Phillips, Walcott, Aaron Lennon, Milner, Crouch, and even a facking 32-year-old Heskey. Just too much mediocrity there.
This is the best balanced England team. Defense is not as good individually as the heyday of Campbell, Ferdinand, Terry, Ashley Cole etc, and midfield doesn't have the same individual quality, but there's balance in those areas, AND that attack is much better and more fluid.
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Southgate Hate
Page 1 of 5
posted on 11/12/22
Southgate is a decent manager and my only criticism of him is that he plays his faves.
One way to stop Mbappe today was to give them cause the other way. Rashford should have started that game.
I also do not know what he sees in Rice. He's a mediocre football player.
posted on 11/12/22
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 minutes ago
Southgate is a decent manager and my only criticism of him is that he plays his faves.
One way to stop Mbappe today was to give them cause the other way. Rashford should have started that game.
I also do not know what he sees in Rice. He's a mediocre football player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Irony there is pre-tournament he was lambasted for playing his favorite Maguire and yet Maguire was a stand out for us all tournament.
Sometimes I think keeping the faith with a nucleus for the internationals works better than the club game
posted on 11/12/22
I don't think Southgate gets much "hate" at all, obviously if you look at hs record pre England, it suggests he is a mediocre coach so there will always be questions when England exit tournaments.
People will have different opinions on his record so far, if you look at major tournaments, semi, final, quarters. Great record. If you look a bit deeper at the context, in those 3 tournaments, we beat one team which wouldn't have been a complete shock if we lost to, and that was a Germany team who has struggled at every tournament since.
Every other good team we have played have beaten us... Croatia, Belgium, Italy, France.
The best thing about this england team has been like you say the like of drama, and the perception of team spirit.
The actual results, has been like the majority of england teams over the last 20 years, as soon as we face a quality team in the knockout stages we tend to get beat.
posted on 11/12/22
He's far too cautious and, as previously mentioned, insists on playing his favourites. If Sterling and Mount are the answer, then gawd knows the question. I was genuinely baffled that he didn't bring Wilson on as an extra threat in the air. French struggled with high balls all game.
posted on 11/12/22
Were there far better England squads than this one?
We've had better first choice defences and midfield but never the attacking depth that this squad has, and I think that's the point when criticising Southgate.
For me there are two things that turn me off Southgate:
his tendency to go negative and defensive - which I'm not criticising him for yesterday
His in game management and use of substitutions, which I am criticising him for yesterday.
posted on 11/12/22
When has England ever had far better squads?
posted on 11/12/22
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 40 minutes ago
Southgate is a decent manager and my only criticism of him is that he plays his faves.
One way to stop Mbappe today was to give them cause the other way. Rashford should have started that game.
I also do not know what he sees in Rice. He's a mediocre football player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mbappe was stopped yesterday, so not sure what you mean here. Who should Rashford have replaced in the starting 11? Saka was MOTM (and shouldn't have been subbed). Foden's played well since starting in the groups. Both have also been far better than Rashford for at least 2 seasons, so why would he start above them in a big knockout match?
posted on 11/12/22
Rice was also one of the best players yesterday, so not sure how he gets criticism here. Odd.
posted on 11/12/22
It was a decent England performance but in the end toothless. If your only goal threat comes from pens, you won’t win tournaments. But just look who is left: dour and defensive Morocco and Croatia, and pretty average France and Argentina teams. It’s been a strange World Cup all in all.
posted on 11/12/22
comment by Dwight K Schrute (U22590)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 minutes ago
Southgate is a decent manager and my only criticism of him is that he plays his faves.
One way to stop Mbappe today was to give them cause the other way. Rashford should have started that game.
I also do not know what he sees in Rice. He's a mediocre football player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Irony there is pre-tournament he was lambasted for playing his favorite Maguire and yet Maguire was a stand out for us all tournament.
Sometimes I think keeping the faith with a nucleus for the internationals works better than the club game
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His Maguire was at fault for Giroud goal. Yes he was a threat from set pieces on other end, but his defensive frailties showed up when it mattered. At the end, Southgate favs were the downfall. But he’s created stability, yet there’s no tactical nous to beat teams better than them on paper.
posted on 11/12/22
We need Selina Weighman to take over
posted on 11/12/22
Thought he did everything right last night until he had to make subs, the subs killed the game for us.
posted on 11/12/22
First of all, there were goal threats besides penalties. Indeed it was because we had a goal threat that they fouled us.
We were playing the world champions and matched them.
Harry missing a penalty isn't down to Southgate. We should have got to extra time.
posted on 11/12/22
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 4 minutes ago
First of all, there were goal threats besides penalties. Indeed it was because we had a goal threat that they fouled us.
We were playing the world champions and matched them.
Harry missing a penalty isn't down to Southgate. We should have got to extra time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bringing on sterling and mount (admittedly he won the pen) was down to him though.
Chasing a game and bringing on Sterling is criminal, he’s been in awful form all season.
posted on 11/12/22
England did OK, but the bar is not set that high these days in International football. Standard is pretty low right now.
posted on 11/12/22
comment by Christ We Won (TENƎꓕ) (U17162)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
When has England ever had far better squads?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eriksson and Capello both had far better squads to work with, IMO.
posted on 11/12/22
Southgate is a decent bloke and has done well to unite the squad and country.
But that's now 3 good chances of a major trophy gone. Last night we were OK, but still created very little. We were also better when losing and France sat off. After we equalised the game was there for the taking but France looked the more likely and eventually scored.
I feel like he's had his chance now. We have seriously good young attackers and Kane probably only has two more tournaments left in him. Now would be a good time for a change to a more attacking manager.
posted on 11/12/22
It was a decent England performance but in the end toothless. If your only goal threat comes from pens, you won’t win tournaments.
—————
Well, it doesn’t, does it? France committed three fouls in their box last night as they were under pressure. Maguire also missed a header he’d score most times, Bellingham had a great hit tipped over…
In a game between two top sides, you’re not going to carve out loads of chances. The fact that England had two penalties and should have had three suggests that France were struggling to stop England creating.
If Kane scored both penalties and we went into ET at 2-2, we’d have deserved it - regardless of how the goals went in.
posted on 11/12/22
comment by Prof Rosso Curtice - mapping SOTY polling trends in real time (U17054)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Christ We Won (TENƎꓕ) (U17162)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
When has England ever had far better squads?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eriksson and Capello both had far better squads to work with, IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those managers never had a chance, rivalry in club football was too bitter to allow any sort of togetherness.
posted on 11/12/22
comment by Prof Rosso Curtice - mapping SOTY polling trends in real time (U17054)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Christ We Won (TENƎꓕ) (U17162)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
When has England ever had far better squads?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eriksson and Capello both had far better squads to work with, IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm… I’m not sure. Eriksson had an incredible England defence (on paper) for a while. There was always a question mark about the left-midfield spot, with the likes of Wayne Bridge, Owen Hargreaves, Scholes and Heskey all being tried out there before Joe Cole. 2010… just checked and Shaun Wright-Phillips was in that World Cup squad!
I’m not sure we’ve ever been as blessed in attack as we are now.
posted on 11/12/22
Never been his biggest fan but that was largely to playing incredibly defensive football with 3 CBs and 2 CDMs in the past. My opinion of him this tournament has definitely gone up as he got his tactics pretty much spot on, and I'd like to see him persist with them into the Euros.
Shame it took him 3 goes though.
posted on 11/12/22
I’d take prime Rooney, Owen and Walcott over Kane, Rashford and Wilson.
Southgate has better wingers and support players, but Eriksson’s midfield and defensive options were a level above the current batch.
If Eriksson matched up against Southgate’s midfield three, he’d be able to select from Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick and Hargreaves.
In 2006, he had a back four of Neville, Ferdinand, Terry/Campbell and Cole.
Different class, IMO.
posted on 11/12/22
As many have said, Southgate beats the expected teams and then loses to the first decent outfit.
England were the better team last night and it should have gone on to extra time, cant say what would have happened but the dreaded penalty shootout was looming
posted on 11/12/22
We definitely have better wide forward players now but the game has changed
Going back further McManaman, anderton etc would have played those roles just as well maybe better
This is the worse striker options I can remember having …we have Kane and that’s it …Wilson is only there cos there is no one else
I Remember when there was shearer. Sheringham , Ferdinand , Fowler , wright (who couldn’t get to a tournament)
Those were all top class options
Eriksen definitely had a better squad as did Capello
Southgate is doing okay with the striker options he has which is naff all
posted on 11/12/22
comment by Prof Rosso Curtice - mapping SOTY polling trends in real time (U17054)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Christ We Won (TENƎꓕ) (U17162)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
When has England ever had far better squads?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eriksson and Capello both had far better squads to work with, IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eriksson's 2002 squad only had world class quality in defense. No Gerrard and Lampard in midfield (think Gerrard was injured). Still fielding the likes of Heskey and Vassell in attack. Too many plodders in that team.
2006 and 2010 had quality in defense and midfield. But still short of quality in attack (both forwards and wide players), bar Rooney. Likes of Downing, Wright-Phillips, Walcott, Aaron Lennon, Milner, Crouch, and even a facking 32-year-old Heskey. Just too much mediocrity there.
This is the best balanced England team. Defense is not as good individually as the heyday of Campbell, Ferdinand, Terry, Ashley Cole etc, and midfield doesn't have the same individual quality, but there's balance in those areas, AND that attack is much better and more fluid.
Page 1 of 5