For what it’s worth, I listened to a podcast the other day about Saudi Arabia and their human rights record. It seems the current ruler is a bit more liberal and has allowed women to drive, travel abroad without permission, access to healthcare and government services without a males permission. Since 2011 women have been allowed to vote. Their female representation in the Consultative Assembly is higher than in Congress in the USA.
I’m not an apologist and they clearly have an extremely long way to go, specifically around things like capital punishment and their way of law, but progress has been made.
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 0 seconds ago
For what it’s worth, I listened to a podcast the other day about Saudi Arabia and their human rights record. It seems the current ruler is a bit more liberal and has allowed women to drive, travel abroad without permission, access to healthcare and government services without a males permission. Since 2011 women have been allowed to vote. Their female representation in the Consultative Assembly is higher than in Congress in the USA.
I’m not an apologist and they clearly have an extremely long way to go, specifically around things like capital punishment and their way of law, but progress has been made.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Forgot to mention it was a podcast on the Athletic that presented both sides of the argument. It wasn’t one sided propaganda.
A large chunk of Utd fans only want Qataris because of City.
Without Abu Dhabi and potentially the Saudis at Newcastle......there would be far less appetite for Oil/gas money from our fanbase. A lot less.
Still not a fan of if. I think the PL is eating itself alive through greed. These buyouts should never have been allowed from the off. Sheikh Mansoor has been to two games in 13 years and City have hardly been a difficult watch in that time have they?
PL all to blame. They shouldn't have allowed it from the start
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 0 seconds ago
For what it’s worth, I listened to a podcast the other day about Saudi Arabia and their human rights record. It seems the current ruler is a bit more liberal and has allowed women to drive, travel abroad without permission, access to healthcare and government services without a males permission. Since 2011 women have been allowed to vote. Their female representation in the Consultative Assembly is higher than in Congress in the USA.
I’m not an apologist and they clearly have an extremely long way to go, specifically around things like capital punishment and their way of law, but progress has been made.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Forgot to mention it was a podcast on the Athletic that presented both sides of the argument. It wasn’t one sided propaganda.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To put 'a long way to go but progress has been made' in some context:
Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, with no popular participation in central government at all. Basically all political parties are banned and dissidents have tortured, imprisoned and murdered. The voting you refer to is in municipal elections, where there is nothing like the kind of competing political platforms you would be familiar with. The country beheads people found guilty of crimes including apostasy, sedition, sorcery, adultery and homosexuality. As per Wikipedia, "on 23 April 2019, Saudi Arabia carried out mass executions of 37 imprisoned civilians who had been convicted mostly on the basis of confessions obtained under torture or written by the accused's torturers. Most of the executed belonged to the country's Shia minority."
It’s not like the good old days at United when local heroes like Robert Maxwell and Rupert Murdoch were investing heavily to build the club brand.
Even recently, Joel Glazer showed his commitment to his childhood club by going to the FA Cup final - Where was the Skeikh people asked?
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 0 seconds ago
For what it’s worth, I listened to a podcast the other day about Saudi Arabia and their human rights record. It seems the current ruler is a bit more liberal and has allowed women to drive, travel abroad without permission, access to healthcare and government services without a males permission. Since 2011 women have been allowed to vote. Their female representation in the Consultative Assembly is higher than in Congress in the USA.
I’m not an apologist and they clearly have an extremely long way to go, specifically around things like capital punishment and their way of law, but progress has been made.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Forgot to mention it was a podcast on the Athletic that presented both sides of the argument. It wasn’t one sided propaganda.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To put 'a long way to go but progress has been made' in some context:
Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, with no popular participation in central government at all. Basically all political parties are banned and dissidents have tortured, imprisoned and murdered. The voting you refer to is in municipal elections, where there is nothing like the kind of competing political platforms you would be familiar with. The country beheads people found guilty of crimes including apostasy, sedition, sorcery, adultery and homosexuality. As per Wikipedia, "on 23 April 2019, Saudi Arabia carried out mass executions of 37 imprisoned civilians who had been convicted mostly on the basis of confessions obtained under torture or written by the accused's torturers. Most of the executed belonged to the country's Shia minority."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So basically what I said.
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 18 minutes ago
A large chunk of Utd fans only want Qataris because of City.
Without Abu Dhabi and potentially the Saudis at Newcastle......there would be far less appetite for Oil/gas money from our fanbase. A lot less.
Still not a fan of if. I think the PL is eating itself alive through greed. These buyouts should never have been allowed from the off. Sheikh Mansoor has been to two games in 13 years and City have hardly been a difficult watch in that time have they?
PL all to blame. They shouldn't have allowed it from the start
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They should have blocked the Newcastle deal given what’s come to light in the states since.
Not sure how they could have blocked ours though.
Agree with the sentiment in some of that but bear in mind the pl was set up for greed in the first place too. They really should have blocked other ownership models too that leveraged debt on the clubs.
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Make Mine a Treble (U5901)
posted 23 minutes ago
It’s not like the good old days at United when local heroes like Robert Maxwell and Rupert Murdoch were investing heavily to build the club brand.
Even recently, Joel Glazer showed his commitment to his childhood club by going to the FA Cup final - Where was the Skeikh people asked?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not like the good old days at City though, is it ?
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 0 seconds ago
For what it’s worth, I listened to a podcast the other day about Saudi Arabia and their human rights record. It seems the current ruler is a bit more liberal and has allowed women to drive, travel abroad without permission, access to healthcare and government services without a males permission. Since 2011 women have been allowed to vote. Their female representation in the Consultative Assembly is higher than in Congress in the USA.
I’m not an apologist and they clearly have an extremely long way to go, specifically around things like capital punishment and their way of law, but progress has been made.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Forgot to mention it was a podcast on the Athletic that presented both sides of the argument. It wasn’t one sided propaganda.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To put 'a long way to go but progress has been made' in some context:
Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, with no popular participation in central government at all. Basically all political parties are banned and dissidents have tortured, imprisoned and murdered. The voting you refer to is in municipal elections, where there is nothing like the kind of competing political platforms you would be familiar with. The country beheads people found guilty of crimes including apostasy, sedition, sorcery, adultery and homosexuality. As per Wikipedia, "on 23 April 2019, Saudi Arabia carried out mass executions of 37 imprisoned civilians who had been convicted mostly on the basis of confessions obtained under torture or written by the accused's torturers. Most of the executed belonged to the country's Shia minority."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So basically what I said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If what you meant to say was that Saudi Arabia is a vicious dictatorship with one of the worst human rights records in the world, then yes. What some might have taken away from your post was "it's not perfect, but it's on the right track".
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
Who killed David Kelly again
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 hours, 20 minutes ago
A large chunk of Utd fans only want Qataris because of City.
Without Abu Dhabi and potentially the Saudis at Newcastle......there would be far less appetite for Oil/gas money from our fanbase. A lot less.
Still not a fan of if. I think the PL is eating itself alive through greed. These buyouts should never have been allowed from the off. Sheikh Mansoor has been to two games in 13 years and City have hardly been a difficult watch in that time have they?
PL all to blame. They shouldn't have allowed it from the start
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I disagree.
I'd imagine the majority of Utd fans just want us to be debt free and the clubs revenue used towards....the club.
We don't want to sign 10 Galactico's, we don't want or need substantial investment.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is abject, disingenuous BS.
You consistently leap to the defence of a Tory government that has been dismantling human rights and mechanisms of democratic accountability and presiding over a transfer of wealth from poorer to richer people through austerity and deregulation. The members of this forum who are most uncomfortable with ownership by an authoritarian state are largely the ones who are most opposed to both the rising inequality you alluded to and the growing authoritarianism of the Western political right. You are instinctively sympathetic to authoritarians and hard-right economic policies. (But no, you're not a Tory!)
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is abject, disingenuous BS.
You consistently leap to the defence of a Tory government that has been dismantling human rights and mechanisms of democratic accountability and presiding over a transfer of wealth from poorer to richer people through austerity and deregulation. The members of this forum who are most uncomfortable with ownership by an authoritarian state are largely the ones who are most opposed to both the rising inequality you alluded to and the growing authoritarianism of the Western political right. You are instinctively sympathetic to authoritarians and hard-right economic policies. (But no, you're not a Tory!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok so he posted a well reasoned post and you made it personal with the normal identity stuff.
Somehow I doubt he constantly leaps to the defence of a Tory government, but you probably leap on him if he doesn't follow the black and white good and bad narrative you've created.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is abject, disingenuous BS.
You consistently leap to the defence of a Tory government that has been dismantling human rights and mechanisms of democratic accountability and presiding over a transfer of wealth from poorer to richer people through austerity and deregulation. The members of this forum who are most uncomfortable with ownership by an authoritarian state are largely the ones who are most opposed to both the rising inequality you alluded to and the growing authoritarianism of the Western political right. You are instinctively sympathetic to authoritarians and hard-right economic policies. (But no, you're not a Tory!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 hours, 11 minutes ago
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You ignore:
- Many of us take issue with various issues affecting human rights and quality of living, and comment accordingly.
- There’s not a binary total of two boxes where you have to enter each injustice or problem into one or the other. There’s a scale, in our own lives, where we’re entitled to judge accordingly as to how serious an issue one particular matter is.
- Referencing other problems as a method deflecting from criticism of a specific issue is a really crass and imo, despicable form of whataboutery.
Stop trying to qualify the debate and just discuss the issues at hand.
If you really must do what you’re doing, then call out hypocrisy to an individual.
In short, grow up.
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 3 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is abject, disingenuous BS.
You consistently leap to the defence of a Tory government that has been dismantling human rights and mechanisms of democratic accountability and presiding over a transfer of wealth from poorer to richer people through austerity and deregulation. The members of this forum who are most uncomfortable with ownership by an authoritarian state are largely the ones who are most opposed to both the rising inequality you alluded to and the growing authoritarianism of the Western political right. You are instinctively sympathetic to authoritarians and hard-right economic policies. (But no, you're not a Tory!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok so he posted a well reasoned post and you made it personal with the normal identity stuff.
Somehow I doubt he constantly leaps to the defence of a Tory government, but you probably leap on him if he doesn't follow the black and white good and bad narrative you've created.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much. I criticise the state of the country and that makes me a Tory
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 3 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is abject, disingenuous BS.
You consistently leap to the defence of a Tory government that has been dismantling human rights and mechanisms of democratic accountability and presiding over a transfer of wealth from poorer to richer people through austerity and deregulation. The members of this forum who are most uncomfortable with ownership by an authoritarian state are largely the ones who are most opposed to both the rising inequality you alluded to and the growing authoritarianism of the Western political right. You are instinctively sympathetic to authoritarians and hard-right economic policies. (But no, you're not a Tory!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok so he posted a well reasoned post and you made it personal with the normal identity stuff.
Somehow I doubt he constantly leaps to the defence of a Tory government, but you probably leap on him if he doesn't follow the black and white good and bad narrative you've created.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much. I criticise the state of the country and that makes me a Tory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, your advocacy for socially conservative and low tax policies makes you a Tory.
Anyone who doesn't support City is a Tory.
‘A Tory’
Very few people actually identify themselves based on a political party they might vote for. It’s distracting from the actual point.
RR’s point was right, so let’s not drag this into silly, cheap insults about who votes for who.
Plenty of people who vote conservative are good people. Plenty of people change their vote in each election.
A bit of grown up debate wouldn’t go amiss.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 3 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is abject, disingenuous BS.
You consistently leap to the defence of a Tory government that has been dismantling human rights and mechanisms of democratic accountability and presiding over a transfer of wealth from poorer to richer people through austerity and deregulation. The members of this forum who are most uncomfortable with ownership by an authoritarian state are largely the ones who are most opposed to both the rising inequality you alluded to and the growing authoritarianism of the Western political right. You are instinctively sympathetic to authoritarians and hard-right economic policies. (But no, you're not a Tory!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok so he posted a well reasoned post and you made it personal with the normal identity stuff.
Somehow I doubt he constantly leaps to the defence of a Tory government, but you probably leap on him if he doesn't follow the black and white good and bad narrative you've created.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much. I criticise the state of the country and that makes me a Tory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, your advocacy for socially conservative and low tax policies makes you a Tory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We're on a football forum
" Nobody serious about political change can shirk the fact that the game has to be abolished. "
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jun/15/football-socialism-crack-cocaine-people
Sign in if you want to comment
Silly rants about oil money
Page 3 of 7
6 | 7
posted on 13/6/23
For what it’s worth, I listened to a podcast the other day about Saudi Arabia and their human rights record. It seems the current ruler is a bit more liberal and has allowed women to drive, travel abroad without permission, access to healthcare and government services without a males permission. Since 2011 women have been allowed to vote. Their female representation in the Consultative Assembly is higher than in Congress in the USA.
I’m not an apologist and they clearly have an extremely long way to go, specifically around things like capital punishment and their way of law, but progress has been made.
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 0 seconds ago
For what it’s worth, I listened to a podcast the other day about Saudi Arabia and their human rights record. It seems the current ruler is a bit more liberal and has allowed women to drive, travel abroad without permission, access to healthcare and government services without a males permission. Since 2011 women have been allowed to vote. Their female representation in the Consultative Assembly is higher than in Congress in the USA.
I’m not an apologist and they clearly have an extremely long way to go, specifically around things like capital punishment and their way of law, but progress has been made.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Forgot to mention it was a podcast on the Athletic that presented both sides of the argument. It wasn’t one sided propaganda.
posted on 13/6/23
What is this silly rant?
posted on 13/6/23
A large chunk of Utd fans only want Qataris because of City.
Without Abu Dhabi and potentially the Saudis at Newcastle......there would be far less appetite for Oil/gas money from our fanbase. A lot less.
Still not a fan of if. I think the PL is eating itself alive through greed. These buyouts should never have been allowed from the off. Sheikh Mansoor has been to two games in 13 years and City have hardly been a difficult watch in that time have they?
PL all to blame. They shouldn't have allowed it from the start
posted on 13/6/23
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 0 seconds ago
For what it’s worth, I listened to a podcast the other day about Saudi Arabia and their human rights record. It seems the current ruler is a bit more liberal and has allowed women to drive, travel abroad without permission, access to healthcare and government services without a males permission. Since 2011 women have been allowed to vote. Their female representation in the Consultative Assembly is higher than in Congress in the USA.
I’m not an apologist and they clearly have an extremely long way to go, specifically around things like capital punishment and their way of law, but progress has been made.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Forgot to mention it was a podcast on the Athletic that presented both sides of the argument. It wasn’t one sided propaganda.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To put 'a long way to go but progress has been made' in some context:
Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, with no popular participation in central government at all. Basically all political parties are banned and dissidents have tortured, imprisoned and murdered. The voting you refer to is in municipal elections, where there is nothing like the kind of competing political platforms you would be familiar with. The country beheads people found guilty of crimes including apostasy, sedition, sorcery, adultery and homosexuality. As per Wikipedia, "on 23 April 2019, Saudi Arabia carried out mass executions of 37 imprisoned civilians who had been convicted mostly on the basis of confessions obtained under torture or written by the accused's torturers. Most of the executed belonged to the country's Shia minority."
posted on 13/6/23
It’s not like the good old days at United when local heroes like Robert Maxwell and Rupert Murdoch were investing heavily to build the club brand.
Even recently, Joel Glazer showed his commitment to his childhood club by going to the FA Cup final - Where was the Skeikh people asked?
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 0 seconds ago
For what it’s worth, I listened to a podcast the other day about Saudi Arabia and their human rights record. It seems the current ruler is a bit more liberal and has allowed women to drive, travel abroad without permission, access to healthcare and government services without a males permission. Since 2011 women have been allowed to vote. Their female representation in the Consultative Assembly is higher than in Congress in the USA.
I’m not an apologist and they clearly have an extremely long way to go, specifically around things like capital punishment and their way of law, but progress has been made.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Forgot to mention it was a podcast on the Athletic that presented both sides of the argument. It wasn’t one sided propaganda.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To put 'a long way to go but progress has been made' in some context:
Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, with no popular participation in central government at all. Basically all political parties are banned and dissidents have tortured, imprisoned and murdered. The voting you refer to is in municipal elections, where there is nothing like the kind of competing political platforms you would be familiar with. The country beheads people found guilty of crimes including apostasy, sedition, sorcery, adultery and homosexuality. As per Wikipedia, "on 23 April 2019, Saudi Arabia carried out mass executions of 37 imprisoned civilians who had been convicted mostly on the basis of confessions obtained under torture or written by the accused's torturers. Most of the executed belonged to the country's Shia minority."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So basically what I said.
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 18 minutes ago
A large chunk of Utd fans only want Qataris because of City.
Without Abu Dhabi and potentially the Saudis at Newcastle......there would be far less appetite for Oil/gas money from our fanbase. A lot less.
Still not a fan of if. I think the PL is eating itself alive through greed. These buyouts should never have been allowed from the off. Sheikh Mansoor has been to two games in 13 years and City have hardly been a difficult watch in that time have they?
PL all to blame. They shouldn't have allowed it from the start
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They should have blocked the Newcastle deal given what’s come to light in the states since.
Not sure how they could have blocked ours though.
Agree with the sentiment in some of that but bear in mind the pl was set up for greed in the first place too. They really should have blocked other ownership models too that leveraged debt on the clubs.
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Make Mine a Treble (U5901)
posted 23 minutes ago
It’s not like the good old days at United when local heroes like Robert Maxwell and Rupert Murdoch were investing heavily to build the club brand.
Even recently, Joel Glazer showed his commitment to his childhood club by going to the FA Cup final - Where was the Skeikh people asked?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not like the good old days at City though, is it ?
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Melbourne Red (U5417)
posted 0 seconds ago
For what it’s worth, I listened to a podcast the other day about Saudi Arabia and their human rights record. It seems the current ruler is a bit more liberal and has allowed women to drive, travel abroad without permission, access to healthcare and government services without a males permission. Since 2011 women have been allowed to vote. Their female representation in the Consultative Assembly is higher than in Congress in the USA.
I’m not an apologist and they clearly have an extremely long way to go, specifically around things like capital punishment and their way of law, but progress has been made.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Forgot to mention it was a podcast on the Athletic that presented both sides of the argument. It wasn’t one sided propaganda.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To put 'a long way to go but progress has been made' in some context:
Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, with no popular participation in central government at all. Basically all political parties are banned and dissidents have tortured, imprisoned and murdered. The voting you refer to is in municipal elections, where there is nothing like the kind of competing political platforms you would be familiar with. The country beheads people found guilty of crimes including apostasy, sedition, sorcery, adultery and homosexuality. As per Wikipedia, "on 23 April 2019, Saudi Arabia carried out mass executions of 37 imprisoned civilians who had been convicted mostly on the basis of confessions obtained under torture or written by the accused's torturers. Most of the executed belonged to the country's Shia minority."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So basically what I said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If what you meant to say was that Saudi Arabia is a vicious dictatorship with one of the worst human rights records in the world, then yes. What some might have taken away from your post was "it's not perfect, but it's on the right track".
posted on 13/6/23
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
posted on 13/6/23
Who killed David Kelly again
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 hours, 20 minutes ago
A large chunk of Utd fans only want Qataris because of City.
Without Abu Dhabi and potentially the Saudis at Newcastle......there would be far less appetite for Oil/gas money from our fanbase. A lot less.
Still not a fan of if. I think the PL is eating itself alive through greed. These buyouts should never have been allowed from the off. Sheikh Mansoor has been to two games in 13 years and City have hardly been a difficult watch in that time have they?
PL all to blame. They shouldn't have allowed it from the start
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I disagree.
I'd imagine the majority of Utd fans just want us to be debt free and the clubs revenue used towards....the club.
We don't want to sign 10 Galactico's, we don't want or need substantial investment.
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is abject, disingenuous BS.
You consistently leap to the defence of a Tory government that has been dismantling human rights and mechanisms of democratic accountability and presiding over a transfer of wealth from poorer to richer people through austerity and deregulation. The members of this forum who are most uncomfortable with ownership by an authoritarian state are largely the ones who are most opposed to both the rising inequality you alluded to and the growing authoritarianism of the Western political right. You are instinctively sympathetic to authoritarians and hard-right economic policies. (But no, you're not a Tory!)
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is abject, disingenuous BS.
You consistently leap to the defence of a Tory government that has been dismantling human rights and mechanisms of democratic accountability and presiding over a transfer of wealth from poorer to richer people through austerity and deregulation. The members of this forum who are most uncomfortable with ownership by an authoritarian state are largely the ones who are most opposed to both the rising inequality you alluded to and the growing authoritarianism of the Western political right. You are instinctively sympathetic to authoritarians and hard-right economic policies. (But no, you're not a Tory!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok so he posted a well reasoned post and you made it personal with the normal identity stuff.
Somehow I doubt he constantly leaps to the defence of a Tory government, but you probably leap on him if he doesn't follow the black and white good and bad narrative you've created.
posted on 13/6/23
Busby Rees Mogg
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is abject, disingenuous BS.
You consistently leap to the defence of a Tory government that has been dismantling human rights and mechanisms of democratic accountability and presiding over a transfer of wealth from poorer to richer people through austerity and deregulation. The members of this forum who are most uncomfortable with ownership by an authoritarian state are largely the ones who are most opposed to both the rising inequality you alluded to and the growing authoritarianism of the Western political right. You are instinctively sympathetic to authoritarians and hard-right economic policies. (But no, you're not a Tory!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 hours, 11 minutes ago
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You ignore:
- Many of us take issue with various issues affecting human rights and quality of living, and comment accordingly.
- There’s not a binary total of two boxes where you have to enter each injustice or problem into one or the other. There’s a scale, in our own lives, where we’re entitled to judge accordingly as to how serious an issue one particular matter is.
- Referencing other problems as a method deflecting from criticism of a specific issue is a really crass and imo, despicable form of whataboutery.
Stop trying to qualify the debate and just discuss the issues at hand.
If you really must do what you’re doing, then call out hypocrisy to an individual.
In short, grow up.
posted on 13/6/23
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 3 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is abject, disingenuous BS.
You consistently leap to the defence of a Tory government that has been dismantling human rights and mechanisms of democratic accountability and presiding over a transfer of wealth from poorer to richer people through austerity and deregulation. The members of this forum who are most uncomfortable with ownership by an authoritarian state are largely the ones who are most opposed to both the rising inequality you alluded to and the growing authoritarianism of the Western political right. You are instinctively sympathetic to authoritarians and hard-right economic policies. (But no, you're not a Tory!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok so he posted a well reasoned post and you made it personal with the normal identity stuff.
Somehow I doubt he constantly leaps to the defence of a Tory government, but you probably leap on him if he doesn't follow the black and white good and bad narrative you've created.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much. I criticise the state of the country and that makes me a Tory
posted on 13/6/23
They're all just jealous
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 3 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is abject, disingenuous BS.
You consistently leap to the defence of a Tory government that has been dismantling human rights and mechanisms of democratic accountability and presiding over a transfer of wealth from poorer to richer people through austerity and deregulation. The members of this forum who are most uncomfortable with ownership by an authoritarian state are largely the ones who are most opposed to both the rising inequality you alluded to and the growing authoritarianism of the Western political right. You are instinctively sympathetic to authoritarians and hard-right economic policies. (But no, you're not a Tory!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok so he posted a well reasoned post and you made it personal with the normal identity stuff.
Somehow I doubt he constantly leaps to the defence of a Tory government, but you probably leap on him if he doesn't follow the black and white good and bad narrative you've created.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much. I criticise the state of the country and that makes me a Tory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, your advocacy for socially conservative and low tax policies makes you a Tory.
posted on 13/6/23
Anyone who doesn't support City is a Tory.
posted on 13/6/23
‘A Tory’
Very few people actually identify themselves based on a political party they might vote for. It’s distracting from the actual point.
RR’s point was right, so let’s not drag this into silly, cheap insults about who votes for who.
Plenty of people who vote conservative are good people. Plenty of people change their vote in each election.
A bit of grown up debate wouldn’t go amiss.
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 3 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
Funny that we cry about human rights when it suits us.
We're currently in a position people can't heat their homes, work yet need food banks, live in a home free of deadly mould, the middle and working class are becoming poorer and poorer, the BoE care only about banks profiting, we've got the blood of millions from Afghan and Iraq on our hands, we voted to leave the EU.
The ME have cultural issues, they're ran by some very rich and oppressive regimes. However we also live in a system designed to ensure employees can't really prosper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is abject, disingenuous BS.
You consistently leap to the defence of a Tory government that has been dismantling human rights and mechanisms of democratic accountability and presiding over a transfer of wealth from poorer to richer people through austerity and deregulation. The members of this forum who are most uncomfortable with ownership by an authoritarian state are largely the ones who are most opposed to both the rising inequality you alluded to and the growing authoritarianism of the Western political right. You are instinctively sympathetic to authoritarians and hard-right economic policies. (But no, you're not a Tory!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok so he posted a well reasoned post and you made it personal with the normal identity stuff.
Somehow I doubt he constantly leaps to the defence of a Tory government, but you probably leap on him if he doesn't follow the black and white good and bad narrative you've created.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much. I criticise the state of the country and that makes me a Tory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, your advocacy for socially conservative and low tax policies makes you a Tory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We're on a football forum
" Nobody serious about political change can shirk the fact that the game has to be abolished. "
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jun/15/football-socialism-crack-cocaine-people
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