People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We could all play that Whatabouttery game, which gets no one anywhere, ever.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 23 seconds ago
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We could all play that Whatabouttery game, which gets no one anywhere, ever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh?
What whitabootery?
A claim was made trying to portray train workers as having some ridiculous level of liability when compared to other jobs.
Pointing out that it's a false assumption is in no way or manner whitabootery for goodness sake
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 23 seconds ago
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We could all play that Whatabouttery game, which gets no one anywhere, ever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh?
What whitabootery?
A claim was made trying to portray train workers as having some ridiculous level of liability when compared to other jobs.
Pointing out that it's a false assumption is in no way or manner whitabootery for goodness sake
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually it was Pawl’s ‘I have a degree etc’ who drew the comparison. I didn’t bring doctors, nurses and those on the building up. You brought those up for lols I assume.
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 23 seconds ago
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We could all play that Whatabouttery game, which gets no one anywhere, ever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh?
What whitabootery?
A claim was made trying to portray train workers as having some ridiculous level of liability when compared to other jobs.
Pointing out that it's a false assumption is in no way or manner whitabootery for goodness sake
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually it was Pawl’s ‘I have a degree etc’ who drew the comparison. I didn’t bring doctors, nurses and those on the building up. You brought those up for lols I assume.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah. It was lols
Still failing to get the accusation of whitabootery
sigh
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be the job of a forklift driver who has to have the relevant training, licence and insurance to go the job safely. Forklift drivers are also paid more than brickies as a result.
Any other random comparisons you want to chuck in
Dev not Pawl, all these Cockneys sound alike
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 23 seconds ago
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We could all play that Whatabouttery game, which gets no one anywhere, ever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh?
What whitabootery?
A claim was made trying to portray train workers as having some ridiculous level of liability when compared to other jobs.
Pointing out that it's a false assumption is in no way or manner whitabootery for goodness sake
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imo, when your talking about train drivers, then you start bringing in other professions to further you point, the original discussion then gets lost because it just turns into a 'who has it harder' contest and the whole debate is out the window.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure your employer appreciates your loyalty and diligence, you're still just a salary number to them, if they respected and appreciated you they'd understand the extra work and either pay you OT or adjust your salary accordingly.
I learned long ago that you get no thanks for those extra hours, that it becomes expected. Maybe you could get your union to fight for the pay your owed
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be the job of a forklift driver who has to have the relevant training, licence and insurance to go the job safely. Forklift drivers are also paid more than brickies as a result.
Any other random comparisons you want to chuck in
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most brick gangs have one of them who operate the fork lift. The don't sit around waiting on being asked to drive over as and when required.
and as to your other point, if you think setting out one job with inherent liabilities settles some debate without being countered by other jobs with equal or more liability, or instead label them as nonsensical; then by all means fill your boots. I'll leave you to it as this is beginning to look for an argument for its own sake and not a discussion,
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 23 seconds ago
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We could all play that Whatabouttery game, which gets no one anywhere, ever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh?
What whitabootery?
A claim was made trying to portray train workers as having some ridiculous level of liability when compared to other jobs.
Pointing out that it's a false assumption is in no way or manner whitabootery for goodness sake
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imo, when your talking about train drivers, then you start bringing in other professions to further you point, the original discussion then gets lost because it just turns into a 'who has it harder' contest and the whole debate is out the window.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point about other professions being brought in was to simply counter the suggestion that train drivers or operators have some level of liability which is far more onerous. That was all. It's now being used as to "who has it tougher" when it's fair to say that many professions have significant levels of liability in one form or another.
I just don't happen to believe that train staff have liability outside the norms of their occupation is all, and no more so than many others.
Back to the original discussion on the strikes, I think I've given my opinion quite fairly and clearly. I don't expect everyone to agree with it.
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 9 minutes ago
Dev not Pawl, all these Cockneys sound alike
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 23 seconds ago
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We could all play that Whatabouttery game, which gets no one anywhere, ever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh?
What whitabootery?
A claim was made trying to portray train workers as having some ridiculous level of liability when compared to other jobs.
Pointing out that it's a false assumption is in no way or manner whitabootery for goodness sake
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imo, when your talking about train drivers, then you start bringing in other professions to further you point, the original discussion then gets lost because it just turns into a 'who has it harder' contest and the whole debate is out the window.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point about other professions being brought in was to simply counter the suggestion that train drivers or operators have some level of liability which is far more onerous. That was all. It's now being used as to "who has it tougher" when it's fair to say that many professions have significant levels of liability in one form or another.
I just don't happen to believe that train staff have liability outside the norms of their occupation is all, and no more so than many others.
Back to the original discussion on the strikes, I think I've given my opinion quite fairly and clearly. I don't expect everyone to agree with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, your completely entitled to your opinions.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be the job of a forklift driver who has to have the relevant training, licence and insurance to go the job safely. Forklift drivers are also paid more than brickies as a result.
Any other random comparisons you want to chuck in
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most brick gangs have one of them who operate the fork lift. The don't sit around waiting on being asked to drive over as and when required.
and as to your other point, if you think setting out one job with inherent liabilities settles some debate without being countered by other jobs with equal or more liability, or instead label them as nonsensical; then by all means fill your boots. I'll leave you to it as this is beginning to look for an argument for its own sake and not a discussion,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said the only comparison made was Dev trying to compare his job and qualifications to those of a train driver.
Bring in whatever daft comparisons you want. End of the day of a train driver does their job wrong you’re talking potentially deaths in the tens to hundreds. Personally I’d want those people paid properly.
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be the job of a forklift driver who has to have the relevant training, licence and insurance to go the job safely. Forklift drivers are also paid more than brickies as a result.
Any other random comparisons you want to chuck in
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most brick gangs have one of them who operate the fork lift. The don't sit around waiting on being asked to drive over as and when required.
and as to your other point, if you think setting out one job with inherent liabilities settles some debate without being countered by other jobs with equal or more liability, or instead label them as nonsensical; then by all means fill your boots. I'll leave you to it as this is beginning to look for an argument for its own sake and not a discussion,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said the only comparison made was Dev trying to compare his job and qualifications to those of a train driver.
Bring in whatever daft comparisons you want. End of the day of a train driver does their job wrong you’re talking potentially deaths in the tens to hundreds. Personally I’d want those people paid properly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think they are paid properly as it is. Plus they've been offered above the norm pay rises.
Then take into account their more than significant pension schemes and other benefits and you arrive at very healthy earnings with so far no threats of working practices or modernisation leading to potential redundancies regardless of however the business is doing.
To use the public as ransom and cause maximum disruption to get even more is a scandal as far as I'm concerned.
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be the job of a forklift driver who has to have the relevant training, licence and insurance to go the job safely. Forklift drivers are also paid more than brickies as a result.
Any other random comparisons you want to chuck in
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most brick gangs have one of them who operate the fork lift. The don't sit around waiting on being asked to drive over as and when required.
and as to your other point, if you think setting out one job with inherent liabilities settles some debate without being countered by other jobs with equal or more liability, or instead label them as nonsensical; then by all means fill your boots. I'll leave you to it as this is beginning to look for an argument for its own sake and not a discussion,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said the only comparison made was Dev trying to compare his job and qualifications to those of a train driver.
Bring in whatever daft comparisons you want. End of the day of a train driver does their job wrong you’re talking potentially deaths in the tens to hundreds. Personally I’d want those people paid properly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those "daft" comparisons seem to somehow have the same awful consequences should they do their job "wrong".
have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
..........
Nobody claimed it was harder, don't be making things up.
If you feel valued and fairly rewarded in your private sector then good for you, the train staff obviously don't in theirs and they're willing to take legal collective action to improve their lot, more power too them.
I hope those barely educated anarcho-communists get everything they're fighting for.
And deaths as a result of driver error are in single figures and have been for decades.
Good training and use of fail safe systems at work. Ironically it's generally system failure that has led to deaths. Train drivers are not ( and nor should they be) liable for that.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be the job of a forklift driver who has to have the relevant training, licence and insurance to go the job safely. Forklift drivers are also paid more than brickies as a result.
Any other random comparisons you want to chuck in
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most brick gangs have one of them who operate the fork lift. The don't sit around waiting on being asked to drive over as and when required.
and as to your other point, if you think setting out one job with inherent liabilities settles some debate without being countered by other jobs with equal or more liability, or instead label them as nonsensical; then by all means fill your boots. I'll leave you to it as this is beginning to look for an argument for its own sake and not a discussion,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said the only comparison made was Dev trying to compare his job and qualifications to those of a train driver.
Bring in whatever daft comparisons you want. End of the day of a train driver does their job wrong you’re talking potentially deaths in the tens to hundreds. Personally I’d want those people paid properly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think they are paid properly as it is. Plus they've been offered above the norm pay rises.
Then take into account their more than significant pension schemes and other benefits and you arrive at very healthy earnings with so far no threats of working practices or modernisation leading to potential redundancies regardless of however the business is doing.
To use the public as ransom and cause maximum disruption to get even more is a scandal as far as I'm concerned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They haven’t had a pay rise for 4 years.How much has everything gone up since then? This is an aside though as it’s the RMT that is going on strike not the drivers union ASLEF. It’s the guards, station staff and cleaners.
Not surprised Dev has got it wrong in his OP though.
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be the job of a forklift driver who has to have the relevant training, licence and insurance to go the job safely. Forklift drivers are also paid more than brickies as a result.
Any other random comparisons you want to chuck in
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most brick gangs have one of them who operate the fork lift. The don't sit around waiting on being asked to drive over as and when required.
and as to your other point, if you think setting out one job with inherent liabilities settles some debate without being countered by other jobs with equal or more liability, or instead label them as nonsensical; then by all means fill your boots. I'll leave you to it as this is beginning to look for an argument for its own sake and not a discussion,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said the only comparison made was Dev trying to compare his job and qualifications to those of a train driver.
Bring in whatever daft comparisons you want. End of the day of a train driver does their job wrong you’re talking potentially deaths in the tens to hundreds. Personally I’d want those people paid properly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think they are paid properly as it is. Plus they've been offered above the norm pay rises.
Then take into account their more than significant pension schemes and other benefits and you arrive at very healthy earnings with so far no threats of working practices or modernisation leading to potential redundancies regardless of however the business is doing.
To use the public as ransom and cause maximum disruption to get even more is a scandal as far as I'm concerned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They haven’t had a pay rise for 4 years.How much has everything gone up since then? This is an aside though as it’s the RMT that is going on strike not the drivers union ASLEF. It’s the guards, station staff and cleaners.
Not surprised Dev has got it wrong in his OP though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah ffs
Let's all start again
Seriously though, they haven't had a wage rise for 4 years?
They haven’t had a pay rise for 4 years.How much has everything gone up since then? This is an aside though as it’s the RMT that is going on strike not the drivers union ASLEF. It’s the guards, station staff and cleaners.
Not surprised Dev has got it wrong in his OP though.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This...when you bring cleaners, security etc into the convo, the numbers they have are low therefore don't fit the agenda that they're greedy...hence why we're lead to believe that it's the people earning good money with good pensions that are 'holding people to ransom'.
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 6 minutes ago
They haven’t had a pay rise for 4 years.How much has everything gone up since then? This is an aside though as it’s the RMT that is going on strike not the drivers union ASLEF. It’s the guards, station staff and cleaners.
Not surprised Dev has got it wrong in his OP though.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This...when you bring cleaners, security etc into the convo, the numbers they have are low therefore don't fit the agenda that they're greedy...hence why we're lead to believe that it's the people earning good money with good pensions that are 'holding people to ransom'.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This happens every time they go an strike. You have to remind certain people, along with the Mail, Express et al that they’re getting angry at the wrong people.
It’s like Groundhog Day.
“This” is from what I read, incorrect.
RMT workers have had pay rises in the last four years. They’ve also received bonuses.
Prior to this they continually received wage increases far in excess of inflation over the previous 10 years. Their awards continue to outstrip almost any other sector and the current offer also reflects this.
Ginge
Drivers (ASLEF) haven’t had a pay rise for 4 years. Guards, station staff and cleaners (RMT) probably have. Can’t really call them greedy though
Sign in if you want to comment
Train Strikes
Page 4 of 5
posted on 23/6/23
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We could all play that Whatabouttery game, which gets no one anywhere, ever.
posted on 23/6/23
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
posted on 23/6/23
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 23 seconds ago
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We could all play that Whatabouttery game, which gets no one anywhere, ever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh?
What whitabootery?
A claim was made trying to portray train workers as having some ridiculous level of liability when compared to other jobs.
Pointing out that it's a false assumption is in no way or manner whitabootery for goodness sake
posted on 23/6/23
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
posted on 23/6/23
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 23 seconds ago
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We could all play that Whatabouttery game, which gets no one anywhere, ever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh?
What whitabootery?
A claim was made trying to portray train workers as having some ridiculous level of liability when compared to other jobs.
Pointing out that it's a false assumption is in no way or manner whitabootery for goodness sake
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually it was Pawl’s ‘I have a degree etc’ who drew the comparison. I didn’t bring doctors, nurses and those on the building up. You brought those up for lols I assume.
posted on 23/6/23
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 23 seconds ago
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We could all play that Whatabouttery game, which gets no one anywhere, ever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh?
What whitabootery?
A claim was made trying to portray train workers as having some ridiculous level of liability when compared to other jobs.
Pointing out that it's a false assumption is in no way or manner whitabootery for goodness sake
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually it was Pawl’s ‘I have a degree etc’ who drew the comparison. I didn’t bring doctors, nurses and those on the building up. You brought those up for lols I assume.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah. It was lols
Still failing to get the accusation of whitabootery
sigh
posted on 23/6/23
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be the job of a forklift driver who has to have the relevant training, licence and insurance to go the job safely. Forklift drivers are also paid more than brickies as a result.
Any other random comparisons you want to chuck in
posted on 23/6/23
Dev not Pawl, all these Cockneys sound alike
posted on 23/6/23
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 23 seconds ago
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We could all play that Whatabouttery game, which gets no one anywhere, ever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh?
What whitabootery?
A claim was made trying to portray train workers as having some ridiculous level of liability when compared to other jobs.
Pointing out that it's a false assumption is in no way or manner whitabootery for goodness sake
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imo, when your talking about train drivers, then you start bringing in other professions to further you point, the original discussion then gets lost because it just turns into a 'who has it harder' contest and the whole debate is out the window.
posted on 23/6/23
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure your employer appreciates your loyalty and diligence, you're still just a salary number to them, if they respected and appreciated you they'd understand the extra work and either pay you OT or adjust your salary accordingly.
I learned long ago that you get no thanks for those extra hours, that it becomes expected. Maybe you could get your union to fight for the pay your owed
posted on 23/6/23
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be the job of a forklift driver who has to have the relevant training, licence and insurance to go the job safely. Forklift drivers are also paid more than brickies as a result.
Any other random comparisons you want to chuck in
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most brick gangs have one of them who operate the fork lift. The don't sit around waiting on being asked to drive over as and when required.
and as to your other point, if you think setting out one job with inherent liabilities settles some debate without being countered by other jobs with equal or more liability, or instead label them as nonsensical; then by all means fill your boots. I'll leave you to it as this is beginning to look for an argument for its own sake and not a discussion,
posted on 23/6/23
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 23 seconds ago
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We could all play that Whatabouttery game, which gets no one anywhere, ever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh?
What whitabootery?
A claim was made trying to portray train workers as having some ridiculous level of liability when compared to other jobs.
Pointing out that it's a false assumption is in no way or manner whitabootery for goodness sake
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imo, when your talking about train drivers, then you start bringing in other professions to further you point, the original discussion then gets lost because it just turns into a 'who has it harder' contest and the whole debate is out the window.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point about other professions being brought in was to simply counter the suggestion that train drivers or operators have some level of liability which is far more onerous. That was all. It's now being used as to "who has it tougher" when it's fair to say that many professions have significant levels of liability in one form or another.
I just don't happen to believe that train staff have liability outside the norms of their occupation is all, and no more so than many others.
Back to the original discussion on the strikes, I think I've given my opinion quite fairly and clearly. I don't expect everyone to agree with it.
posted on 23/6/23
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 9 minutes ago
Dev not Pawl, all these Cockneys sound alike
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 23/6/23
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 23 seconds ago
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We could all play that Whatabouttery game, which gets no one anywhere, ever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh?
What whitabootery?
A claim was made trying to portray train workers as having some ridiculous level of liability when compared to other jobs.
Pointing out that it's a false assumption is in no way or manner whitabootery for goodness sake
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imo, when your talking about train drivers, then you start bringing in other professions to further you point, the original discussion then gets lost because it just turns into a 'who has it harder' contest and the whole debate is out the window.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point about other professions being brought in was to simply counter the suggestion that train drivers or operators have some level of liability which is far more onerous. That was all. It's now being used as to "who has it tougher" when it's fair to say that many professions have significant levels of liability in one form or another.
I just don't happen to believe that train staff have liability outside the norms of their occupation is all, and no more so than many others.
Back to the original discussion on the strikes, I think I've given my opinion quite fairly and clearly. I don't expect everyone to agree with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, your completely entitled to your opinions.
posted on 23/6/23
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be the job of a forklift driver who has to have the relevant training, licence and insurance to go the job safely. Forklift drivers are also paid more than brickies as a result.
Any other random comparisons you want to chuck in
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most brick gangs have one of them who operate the fork lift. The don't sit around waiting on being asked to drive over as and when required.
and as to your other point, if you think setting out one job with inherent liabilities settles some debate without being countered by other jobs with equal or more liability, or instead label them as nonsensical; then by all means fill your boots. I'll leave you to it as this is beginning to look for an argument for its own sake and not a discussion,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said the only comparison made was Dev trying to compare his job and qualifications to those of a train driver.
Bring in whatever daft comparisons you want. End of the day of a train driver does their job wrong you’re talking potentially deaths in the tens to hundreds. Personally I’d want those people paid properly.
posted on 23/6/23
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be the job of a forklift driver who has to have the relevant training, licence and insurance to go the job safely. Forklift drivers are also paid more than brickies as a result.
Any other random comparisons you want to chuck in
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most brick gangs have one of them who operate the fork lift. The don't sit around waiting on being asked to drive over as and when required.
and as to your other point, if you think setting out one job with inherent liabilities settles some debate without being countered by other jobs with equal or more liability, or instead label them as nonsensical; then by all means fill your boots. I'll leave you to it as this is beginning to look for an argument for its own sake and not a discussion,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said the only comparison made was Dev trying to compare his job and qualifications to those of a train driver.
Bring in whatever daft comparisons you want. End of the day of a train driver does their job wrong you’re talking potentially deaths in the tens to hundreds. Personally I’d want those people paid properly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think they are paid properly as it is. Plus they've been offered above the norm pay rises.
Then take into account their more than significant pension schemes and other benefits and you arrive at very healthy earnings with so far no threats of working practices or modernisation leading to potential redundancies regardless of however the business is doing.
To use the public as ransom and cause maximum disruption to get even more is a scandal as far as I'm concerned.
posted on 23/6/23
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be the job of a forklift driver who has to have the relevant training, licence and insurance to go the job safely. Forklift drivers are also paid more than brickies as a result.
Any other random comparisons you want to chuck in
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most brick gangs have one of them who operate the fork lift. The don't sit around waiting on being asked to drive over as and when required.
and as to your other point, if you think setting out one job with inherent liabilities settles some debate without being countered by other jobs with equal or more liability, or instead label them as nonsensical; then by all means fill your boots. I'll leave you to it as this is beginning to look for an argument for its own sake and not a discussion,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said the only comparison made was Dev trying to compare his job and qualifications to those of a train driver.
Bring in whatever daft comparisons you want. End of the day of a train driver does their job wrong you’re talking potentially deaths in the tens to hundreds. Personally I’d want those people paid properly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those "daft" comparisons seem to somehow have the same awful consequences should they do their job "wrong".
posted on 23/6/23
have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
..........
Nobody claimed it was harder, don't be making things up.
If you feel valued and fairly rewarded in your private sector then good for you, the train staff obviously don't in theirs and they're willing to take legal collective action to improve their lot, more power too them.
I hope those barely educated anarcho-communists get everything they're fighting for.
posted on 23/6/23
And deaths as a result of driver error are in single figures and have been for decades.
Good training and use of fail safe systems at work. Ironically it's generally system failure that has led to deaths. Train drivers are not ( and nor should they be) liable for that.
posted on 23/6/23
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be the job of a forklift driver who has to have the relevant training, licence and insurance to go the job safely. Forklift drivers are also paid more than brickies as a result.
Any other random comparisons you want to chuck in
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most brick gangs have one of them who operate the fork lift. The don't sit around waiting on being asked to drive over as and when required.
and as to your other point, if you think setting out one job with inherent liabilities settles some debate without being countered by other jobs with equal or more liability, or instead label them as nonsensical; then by all means fill your boots. I'll leave you to it as this is beginning to look for an argument for its own sake and not a discussion,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said the only comparison made was Dev trying to compare his job and qualifications to those of a train driver.
Bring in whatever daft comparisons you want. End of the day of a train driver does their job wrong you’re talking potentially deaths in the tens to hundreds. Personally I’d want those people paid properly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think they are paid properly as it is. Plus they've been offered above the norm pay rises.
Then take into account their more than significant pension schemes and other benefits and you arrive at very healthy earnings with so far no threats of working practices or modernisation leading to potential redundancies regardless of however the business is doing.
To use the public as ransom and cause maximum disruption to get even more is a scandal as far as I'm concerned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They haven’t had a pay rise for 4 years.How much has everything gone up since then? This is an aside though as it’s the RMT that is going on strike not the drivers union ASLEF. It’s the guards, station staff and cleaners.
Not surprised Dev has got it wrong in his OP though.
posted on 23/6/23
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
Good for them and their negotiating reps.
You have to take into account the training required, the legal personal liabilities, the shift work, the time away from home, rising inflation, rising housing costs, rising inflation blah-de-blah.
I'll say it again, I believe no wage dependant workers wants to strike and it's a ludicrous situation where our government refuses to negotiate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same for a lot of private company employees.
I probably do 5-10 hours a week over my contracted hours and dont get paid for it. I hope it gets recognised and im viewed as an important cog in the machine and rewarded accordingly but part of the reason why i do it is because we have clients, who pay the fees and they want and need their work done asap, so it gets done and that can mean a lot of hard work and long hours. If i dont then the company loses money, loses client and its very viability suffers.
I have a degree and a Masters and did 3 years in-job training before being qualified and able to practice fully...a train driver needs a few GCSEs and 9 months training, so lets not pretend that their life is any tougher or harder work than your average career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many lives you responsible for on a day to day basis?
FFS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of not crashing your method of transport when there is every failsafe device available to man?
Or failing to warn people not to stand too close to passing trains?
People on construction sites have far more responsibility, as do nurses, doctors, the care sector, airline staff etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t see anyone arguing Doctors and nurses having less responsibility. Amusing you think someone laying one brick on top of another has more responsibility than a train driver who transports thousands of people safely on an average shift.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you want to pick that construction job do you?
What about when that bricklayer is moving those huge pallets of bricks on forklift or when he's up on high scaffold?
Christ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be the job of a forklift driver who has to have the relevant training, licence and insurance to go the job safely. Forklift drivers are also paid more than brickies as a result.
Any other random comparisons you want to chuck in
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most brick gangs have one of them who operate the fork lift. The don't sit around waiting on being asked to drive over as and when required.
and as to your other point, if you think setting out one job with inherent liabilities settles some debate without being countered by other jobs with equal or more liability, or instead label them as nonsensical; then by all means fill your boots. I'll leave you to it as this is beginning to look for an argument for its own sake and not a discussion,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said the only comparison made was Dev trying to compare his job and qualifications to those of a train driver.
Bring in whatever daft comparisons you want. End of the day of a train driver does their job wrong you’re talking potentially deaths in the tens to hundreds. Personally I’d want those people paid properly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think they are paid properly as it is. Plus they've been offered above the norm pay rises.
Then take into account their more than significant pension schemes and other benefits and you arrive at very healthy earnings with so far no threats of working practices or modernisation leading to potential redundancies regardless of however the business is doing.
To use the public as ransom and cause maximum disruption to get even more is a scandal as far as I'm concerned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They haven’t had a pay rise for 4 years.How much has everything gone up since then? This is an aside though as it’s the RMT that is going on strike not the drivers union ASLEF. It’s the guards, station staff and cleaners.
Not surprised Dev has got it wrong in his OP though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah ffs
Let's all start again
Seriously though, they haven't had a wage rise for 4 years?
posted on 23/6/23
They haven’t had a pay rise for 4 years.How much has everything gone up since then? This is an aside though as it’s the RMT that is going on strike not the drivers union ASLEF. It’s the guards, station staff and cleaners.
Not surprised Dev has got it wrong in his OP though.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This...when you bring cleaners, security etc into the convo, the numbers they have are low therefore don't fit the agenda that they're greedy...hence why we're lead to believe that it's the people earning good money with good pensions that are 'holding people to ransom'.
posted on 23/6/23
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 6 minutes ago
They haven’t had a pay rise for 4 years.How much has everything gone up since then? This is an aside though as it’s the RMT that is going on strike not the drivers union ASLEF. It’s the guards, station staff and cleaners.
Not surprised Dev has got it wrong in his OP though.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This...when you bring cleaners, security etc into the convo, the numbers they have are low therefore don't fit the agenda that they're greedy...hence why we're lead to believe that it's the people earning good money with good pensions that are 'holding people to ransom'.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This happens every time they go an strike. You have to remind certain people, along with the Mail, Express et al that they’re getting angry at the wrong people.
It’s like Groundhog Day.
posted on 23/6/23
“This” is from what I read, incorrect.
RMT workers have had pay rises in the last four years. They’ve also received bonuses.
Prior to this they continually received wage increases far in excess of inflation over the previous 10 years. Their awards continue to outstrip almost any other sector and the current offer also reflects this.
posted on 23/6/23
Ginge
Drivers (ASLEF) haven’t had a pay rise for 4 years. Guards, station staff and cleaners (RMT) probably have. Can’t really call them greedy though
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