Interesting that Prigozhin has gone after the oligarchs - "the clan which in practice rules Russia today" - too, blaming them for the war.
I mean, he’s not entirely wrong; but you’d have thought that if this is a real play for power, despite having to win over popular support amongst troops and the public, that’s a pretty risky move. Is he really the guy to dismantle (or trigger the dismantling of) the Russian elite?
My guess is that he’ll be dead, apprehended by the FSB and locked up somewhere very dark and cold, or out of the country on a pretty permanent basis by the end of next week.
Normally I'd 'follow the money' in most situations but this is Russia and normal rules may not work. That said US have pumped in $75bn so far and could easily see at least the same again with no certainty of outcome so perhaps that would be better spent elsewhere...?
Similarly, and much less likely, the elite will have found life a good bit less comfortable since the occupation and asset seizures so support may be waning?
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Robb Cummins-Lyon (U22716)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by peks - Aliens are here 👽 (U6618)
posted 2 minutes ago
Bet the Americans are behind this
Initiating Coups's in Countries were they want leadership change is their modus operandi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are the Americans in the room with you now Peks?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
JA606 members will be amongst the first in the West to know once Wagner has assumed control of the Russian web brigades.
Peks and spyro will suddenly start lauding Prigozhin as the leader the Russian people have been demanding all along.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's going to hinge on whether Prigozhin can win over the botfarms or not.
Also slightly suspicious that CNN's international coverage which is normally pretty moribund during the US night has been right on point these last hours.
comment by HB Fashion Sakala is offside again (U21935)
posted 29 seconds ago
Where are the Chechens?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chechnya, most likely.
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by HB Fashion Sakala is offside again (U21935)
posted 29 seconds ago
Where are the Chechens?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chechnya, most likely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looked it up, Goatfooker has said they are on the way to fight Wagner
In Game of Thrones parlance this is like the Lannisters descending on Kings Landing to fight the Targaryens
comment by Cloggy (U1250)
posted 3 hours, 33 minutes ago
The mercenary boss who scored Russia its only significant success in months, at Bakhmut, has told the Russian people the whole pretext for the invasion was a lie, that the threat from Ukraine was invented
----------------
Let's hope the Russian people will rise to the occasion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This worries me, he also complains that he is being starved of supplies. This gives me 2 concerns.
As has been mentioned, they have given Russia some of their most successful operations. If they can do this under the leadership of some one that believes lies led to this war and is short of supplies, imaginevwhat he could do if he became a more political part of the regime rather than the hammer and had more influence in tactics and supplies. Things could get a lot worse rather than better. I'll just keep my fingers crossed for now and hope for the best for every single country involved, including those suffering from lack of supplies, be that oil in Europe to Grain in Africa.
comment by JFDI (U1657)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Cloggy (U1250)
posted 3 hours, 33 minutes ago
The mercenary boss who scored Russia its only significant success in months, at Bakhmut, has told the Russian people the whole pretext for the invasion was a lie, that the threat from Ukraine was invented
----------------
Let's hope the Russian people will rise to the occasion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This worries me, he also complains that he is being starved of supplies. This gives me 2 concerns.
As has been mentioned, they have given Russia some of their most successful operations. If they can do this under the leadership of some one that believes lies led to this war and is short of supplies, imaginevwhat he could do if he became a more political part of the regime rather than the hammer and had more influence in tactics and supplies. Things could get a lot worse rather than better. I'll just keep my fingers crossed for now and hope for the best for every single country involved, including those suffering from lack of supplies, be that oil in Europe to Grain in Africa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In fairness the strategy which gained Wagner the win is something hard to maintain. I.e, throwing hundreds and hundreds of prisoners at the enemy for fear of being shot if they refused taking inch by inch of land.
There just isn’t enough prisoners and grunts out there to take a whole country.
Robert Wagner ?
I thought he was an American actor from the 70s
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 hours, 57 minutes ago
I'm watching this closely.
Two things I'd say: the most informed Russia specialists are being very open about having no idea at all how this will pan out. Only thing we can say for sure is it's a sign of Putin's weakness, and exposes the lack of genuine support behind his supposed popularity and lack of substance behind his power.
Secondly, in case anyone is tempted to see this as a righteous uprising, Prigozhin has presided over a Wagner operation with overt fascist elements, which has committed atrocities in Africa and Syria as well as Ukraine, and videoed the execution by sledgehammer of a deserter. He has urged being more aggressive and merciless against Ukraine in the past. He's a career criminal who did time in prison in the 80s and emerged, like Putin, from the mafia boom of the 90s. He may currently be the enemy's enemy (though we don't know what his calculations are, or whether he is acting rationally or rashly) but he's definitely no good guy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's much more likely to have an accidental incident with an S.A.S hit squad though isn't he?
Supposedly one of the Wagnerites tried to assassinate Prigozhin this morning, missed and was executed.
comment by Robb Cummins-Lyon (U22716)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by JFDI (U1657)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Cloggy (U1250)
posted 3 hours, 33 minutes ago
The mercenary boss who scored Russia its only significant success in months, at Bakhmut, has told the Russian people the whole pretext for the invasion was a lie, that the threat from Ukraine was invented
----------------
Let's hope the Russian people will rise to the occasion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This worries me, he also complains that he is being starved of supplies. This gives me 2 concerns.
As has been mentioned, they have given Russia some of their most successful operations. If they can do this under the leadership of some one that believes lies led to this war and is short of supplies, imaginevwhat he could do if he became a more political part of the regime rather than the hammer and had more influence in tactics and supplies. Things could get a lot worse rather than better. I'll just keep my fingers crossed for now and hope for the best for every single country involved, including those suffering from lack of supplies, be that oil in Europe to Grain in Africa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In fairness the strategy which gained Wagner the win is something hard to maintain. I.e, throwing hundreds and hundreds of prisoners at the enemy for fear of being shot if they refused taking inch by inch of land.
There just isn’t enough prisoners and grunts out there to take a whole country.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, there are many ways this could play out, some positive some negative.
comment by KLS - Mick Lynch for prime minister (U1695)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 hours, 57 minutes ago
I'm watching this closely.
Two things I'd say: the most informed Russia specialists are being very open about having no idea at all how this will pan out. Only thing we can say for sure is it's a sign of Putin's weakness, and exposes the lack of genuine support behind his supposed popularity and lack of substance behind his power.
Secondly, in case anyone is tempted to see this as a righteous uprising, Prigozhin has presided over a Wagner operation with overt fascist elements, which has committed atrocities in Africa and Syria as well as Ukraine, and videoed the execution by sledgehammer of a deserter. He has urged being more aggressive and merciless against Ukraine in the past. He's a career criminal who did time in prison in the 80s and emerged, like Putin, from the mafia boom of the 90s. He may currently be the enemy's enemy (though we don't know what his calculations are, or whether he is acting rationally or rashly) but he's definitely no good guy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's much more likely to have an accidental incident with an S.A.S hit squad though isn't he?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Took the seals a while to fond and take out Bin Laden, a lot of damage was done in the meantime. Once the fighting stops the politics kick in, that too can lead to conflict as much as peace. It could go many ways even though I've only given two opposing scenarios.
There is quite a famous video out there of US forces absolutely stomping Wagner forces in Syria
Apparently the Belarus president actually fled with his family, can't see it confirmed anywhere though
Gonna be more Netflix opportunities out of this. One side or the other being taken out slo-mo to the strains of Tannhäuser.
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 58 seconds ago
Apparently the Belarus president actually fled with his family, can't see it confirmed anywhere though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If true perhaps he thought if Putin fell then his country would get together and boot him out too
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 20 seconds ago
Apparently the Belarus president actually fled with his family, can't see it confirmed anywhere though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/24/7408310/
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 1 minute ago
Gonna be more Netflix opportunities out of this. One side or the other being taken out slo-mo to the strains of Tannhäuser.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well season one of Titanic just finished so now we’re onto season two of Russia
Kadyrov comes out in support of Putin. Somebody really needs to tell him that beard does nothing to help.
I’d love to see Kadyrov thrown out of a 12 story building beard first
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 12 minutes ago
Kadyrov comes out in support of Putin. Somebody really needs to tell him that beard does nothing to help.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cause he will... Put in let's him do what he wants
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 20 seconds ago
Apparently the Belarus president actually fled with his family, can't see it confirmed anywhere though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/24/7408310/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A site called Ukrainska Pravda doesn't immediately strike me as the most reliable source on bad news for the enemies of Ukraine.
Sign in if you want to comment
Wagner vs Russia
Page 4 of 16
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
posted on 24/6/23
Interesting that Prigozhin has gone after the oligarchs - "the clan which in practice rules Russia today" - too, blaming them for the war.
I mean, he’s not entirely wrong; but you’d have thought that if this is a real play for power, despite having to win over popular support amongst troops and the public, that’s a pretty risky move. Is he really the guy to dismantle (or trigger the dismantling of) the Russian elite?
My guess is that he’ll be dead, apprehended by the FSB and locked up somewhere very dark and cold, or out of the country on a pretty permanent basis by the end of next week.
posted on 24/6/23
Normally I'd 'follow the money' in most situations but this is Russia and normal rules may not work. That said US have pumped in $75bn so far and could easily see at least the same again with no certainty of outcome so perhaps that would be better spent elsewhere...?
Similarly, and much less likely, the elite will have found life a good bit less comfortable since the occupation and asset seizures so support may be waning?
posted on 24/6/23
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Robb Cummins-Lyon (U22716)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by peks - Aliens are here 👽 (U6618)
posted 2 minutes ago
Bet the Americans are behind this
Initiating Coups's in Countries were they want leadership change is their modus operandi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are the Americans in the room with you now Peks?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
JA606 members will be amongst the first in the West to know once Wagner has assumed control of the Russian web brigades.
Peks and spyro will suddenly start lauding Prigozhin as the leader the Russian people have been demanding all along.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's going to hinge on whether Prigozhin can win over the botfarms or not.
posted on 24/6/23
Also slightly suspicious that CNN's international coverage which is normally pretty moribund during the US night has been right on point these last hours.
posted on 24/6/23
Where are the Chechens?
posted on 24/6/23
comment by HB Fashion Sakala is offside again (U21935)
posted 29 seconds ago
Where are the Chechens?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chechnya, most likely.
posted on 24/6/23
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by HB Fashion Sakala is offside again (U21935)
posted 29 seconds ago
Where are the Chechens?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chechnya, most likely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looked it up, Goatfooker has said they are on the way to fight Wagner
posted on 24/6/23
In Game of Thrones parlance this is like the Lannisters descending on Kings Landing to fight the Targaryens
posted on 24/6/23
comment by Cloggy (U1250)
posted 3 hours, 33 minutes ago
The mercenary boss who scored Russia its only significant success in months, at Bakhmut, has told the Russian people the whole pretext for the invasion was a lie, that the threat from Ukraine was invented
----------------
Let's hope the Russian people will rise to the occasion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This worries me, he also complains that he is being starved of supplies. This gives me 2 concerns.
As has been mentioned, they have given Russia some of their most successful operations. If they can do this under the leadership of some one that believes lies led to this war and is short of supplies, imaginevwhat he could do if he became a more political part of the regime rather than the hammer and had more influence in tactics and supplies. Things could get a lot worse rather than better. I'll just keep my fingers crossed for now and hope for the best for every single country involved, including those suffering from lack of supplies, be that oil in Europe to Grain in Africa.
posted on 24/6/23
comment by JFDI (U1657)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Cloggy (U1250)
posted 3 hours, 33 minutes ago
The mercenary boss who scored Russia its only significant success in months, at Bakhmut, has told the Russian people the whole pretext for the invasion was a lie, that the threat from Ukraine was invented
----------------
Let's hope the Russian people will rise to the occasion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This worries me, he also complains that he is being starved of supplies. This gives me 2 concerns.
As has been mentioned, they have given Russia some of their most successful operations. If they can do this under the leadership of some one that believes lies led to this war and is short of supplies, imaginevwhat he could do if he became a more political part of the regime rather than the hammer and had more influence in tactics and supplies. Things could get a lot worse rather than better. I'll just keep my fingers crossed for now and hope for the best for every single country involved, including those suffering from lack of supplies, be that oil in Europe to Grain in Africa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In fairness the strategy which gained Wagner the win is something hard to maintain. I.e, throwing hundreds and hundreds of prisoners at the enemy for fear of being shot if they refused taking inch by inch of land.
There just isn’t enough prisoners and grunts out there to take a whole country.
posted on 24/6/23
Robert Wagner ?
I thought he was an American actor from the 70s
posted on 24/6/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 hours, 57 minutes ago
I'm watching this closely.
Two things I'd say: the most informed Russia specialists are being very open about having no idea at all how this will pan out. Only thing we can say for sure is it's a sign of Putin's weakness, and exposes the lack of genuine support behind his supposed popularity and lack of substance behind his power.
Secondly, in case anyone is tempted to see this as a righteous uprising, Prigozhin has presided over a Wagner operation with overt fascist elements, which has committed atrocities in Africa and Syria as well as Ukraine, and videoed the execution by sledgehammer of a deserter. He has urged being more aggressive and merciless against Ukraine in the past. He's a career criminal who did time in prison in the 80s and emerged, like Putin, from the mafia boom of the 90s. He may currently be the enemy's enemy (though we don't know what his calculations are, or whether he is acting rationally or rashly) but he's definitely no good guy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's much more likely to have an accidental incident with an S.A.S hit squad though isn't he?
posted on 24/6/23
Supposedly one of the Wagnerites tried to assassinate Prigozhin this morning, missed and was executed.
posted on 24/6/23
comment by Robb Cummins-Lyon (U22716)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by JFDI (U1657)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Cloggy (U1250)
posted 3 hours, 33 minutes ago
The mercenary boss who scored Russia its only significant success in months, at Bakhmut, has told the Russian people the whole pretext for the invasion was a lie, that the threat from Ukraine was invented
----------------
Let's hope the Russian people will rise to the occasion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This worries me, he also complains that he is being starved of supplies. This gives me 2 concerns.
As has been mentioned, they have given Russia some of their most successful operations. If they can do this under the leadership of some one that believes lies led to this war and is short of supplies, imaginevwhat he could do if he became a more political part of the regime rather than the hammer and had more influence in tactics and supplies. Things could get a lot worse rather than better. I'll just keep my fingers crossed for now and hope for the best for every single country involved, including those suffering from lack of supplies, be that oil in Europe to Grain in Africa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In fairness the strategy which gained Wagner the win is something hard to maintain. I.e, throwing hundreds and hundreds of prisoners at the enemy for fear of being shot if they refused taking inch by inch of land.
There just isn’t enough prisoners and grunts out there to take a whole country.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, there are many ways this could play out, some positive some negative.
posted on 24/6/23
comment by KLS - Mick Lynch for prime minister (U1695)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 hours, 57 minutes ago
I'm watching this closely.
Two things I'd say: the most informed Russia specialists are being very open about having no idea at all how this will pan out. Only thing we can say for sure is it's a sign of Putin's weakness, and exposes the lack of genuine support behind his supposed popularity and lack of substance behind his power.
Secondly, in case anyone is tempted to see this as a righteous uprising, Prigozhin has presided over a Wagner operation with overt fascist elements, which has committed atrocities in Africa and Syria as well as Ukraine, and videoed the execution by sledgehammer of a deserter. He has urged being more aggressive and merciless against Ukraine in the past. He's a career criminal who did time in prison in the 80s and emerged, like Putin, from the mafia boom of the 90s. He may currently be the enemy's enemy (though we don't know what his calculations are, or whether he is acting rationally or rashly) but he's definitely no good guy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's much more likely to have an accidental incident with an S.A.S hit squad though isn't he?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Took the seals a while to fond and take out Bin Laden, a lot of damage was done in the meantime. Once the fighting stops the politics kick in, that too can lead to conflict as much as peace. It could go many ways even though I've only given two opposing scenarios.
posted on 24/6/23
There is quite a famous video out there of US forces absolutely stomping Wagner forces in Syria
posted on 24/6/23
Apparently the Belarus president actually fled with his family, can't see it confirmed anywhere though
posted on 24/6/23
Gonna be more Netflix opportunities out of this. One side or the other being taken out slo-mo to the strains of Tannhäuser.
posted on 24/6/23
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 58 seconds ago
Apparently the Belarus president actually fled with his family, can't see it confirmed anywhere though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If true perhaps he thought if Putin fell then his country would get together and boot him out too
posted on 24/6/23
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 20 seconds ago
Apparently the Belarus president actually fled with his family, can't see it confirmed anywhere though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/24/7408310/
posted on 24/6/23
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 1 minute ago
Gonna be more Netflix opportunities out of this. One side or the other being taken out slo-mo to the strains of Tannhäuser.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well season one of Titanic just finished so now we’re onto season two of Russia
posted on 24/6/23
Kadyrov comes out in support of Putin. Somebody really needs to tell him that beard does nothing to help.
posted on 24/6/23
I’d love to see Kadyrov thrown out of a 12 story building beard first
posted on 24/6/23
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 12 minutes ago
Kadyrov comes out in support of Putin. Somebody really needs to tell him that beard does nothing to help.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cause he will... Put in let's him do what he wants
posted on 24/6/23
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 20 seconds ago
Apparently the Belarus president actually fled with his family, can't see it confirmed anywhere though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/24/7408310/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A site called Ukrainska Pravda doesn't immediately strike me as the most reliable source on bad news for the enemies of Ukraine.
Page 4 of 16
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10