apparently it's this:

"Moloch, also spelled Molech, a Canaanite deity associated in biblical sources with the practice of child sacrifice"

no i wasn't being anti-jewish

relax

Who knows how this is going to end, but it could the start of the end of putin..

comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by peks - Aliens are here 👽 (U6618)
posted 4 minutes ago
when the war starts, the politicians sell the weapons and military equipment, the rich people give the food, and the poor people their sons.. when the war comes to an end, the politicians shake hands, the rich people get richer by increasing the price of their goods and foods, and the poor people start seeking dead children

moloch is hungry again
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That's your second Judaic reference. Are you trying to get some kind of anti-Semitic message across?
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Don’t ask him difficult questions, ffs.

His job is just to copy-paste whatever his handler sends him.

comment by peks - Aliens are here 👽 (U6618)
posted 49 minutes ago
no i wasn't being anti-jewish

relax
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Well, that was the second time your 'mate' posted Jewish references, and the second time you didn't even use quotation marks to indicate you were quoting that fella.

Seems he is a bit hung up about Jews. You asked him about that?

comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 hours, 15 minutes ago
comment by devilsknight101 (U4670)
posted 46 minutes ago
So the Russian Armed forces have gone from 2nd best in the world, to 2nd best in Ukraine, to 2nd best in Russia?
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I must have missed when they were second best in the world

About time somebody stood up to Putin. Al thought I think Prigozhin‘s issue is more with the people around putin feeding him false intel.

Their intel is so bad, even the start of the invasion was a disaster for them

comment by HB Fashion Sakala is offside again (U21935)
posted 4 hours, 39 minutes ago
Where are the Chechens?
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Yeah they may have a few issues of their own they are dealing with

comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 50 seconds ago
About time somebody stood up to Putin. Al thought I think Prigozhin‘s issue is more with the people around putin feeding him false intel.

Their intel is so bad, even the start of the invasion was a disaster for them
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Amazing they correctly identified Ukraine on map

comment by Got_Better (U6241)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
Who knows how this is going to end, but it could the start of the end of putin..
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I guess the problem is, there could be far worse leaders of Russia than Putin, and whatever you think of their military right now, their nuclear capabilities are extraordinary.

Anyway, as for this, it will fizzle out by next weekend and Prigozhin will about turn and steam back into the Ukraine with more vigour than before.

comment by Robb Cummins-Lyon (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 46 minutes ago
One possibly very crazy theory I saw was this was all a ruse to get Wagner out of Ukraine before tactical nukes are unleashed there.
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You think it’s only ‘possibly very crazy’?

comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
Interesting that Prigozhin has gone after the oligarchs - "the clan which in practice rules Russia today" - too, blaming them for the war.

I mean, he’s not entirely wrong; but you’d have thought that if this is a real play for power, despite having to win over popular support amongst troops and the public, that’s a pretty risky move. Is he really the guy to dismantle (or trigger the dismantling of) the Russian elite?

My guess is that he’ll be dead, apprehended by the FSB and locked up somewhere very dark and cold, or out of the country on a pretty permanent basis by the end of next week.
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The oligarchs today rely entirely on Putin's patronage to hold on to their wealth. It's lent to them by the security state.

I agree that the odds don't favour Prigozhin, but I wouldn't overstate the capacity of the oligarchy to act autonomously. Wagner's hope is to appeal to lower ranks being unwilling to fire on their forces, so the anti-elitist tone has some rationale.
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And not forgetting that Prigozhin is essentially an oligarch as well.
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Good point. Prigozhin is an example of the new type of oligarch class that emerged after Putin liquidated any of the original ones who (unlike e.g. Abramovich) didn't show total loyalty to him. Most of them have personal connections to Putin from the 1990s St Petersburg security services / crime milieu. That said, those who know this world better than me observe that Prigozhin (nicknamed The Chef due to providing catering services among many other ventures) was always more of a fixer for the Kremlin and not part of the inner political circle. The guys who really benefit from Putin's patronage tend to have jobs that involve managing (and syphoning off) budgets of major state-controlled enterprises and extraction industries.

comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Got_Better (U6241)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
Who knows how this is going to end, but it could the start of the end of putin..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess the problem is, there could be far worse leaders of Russia than Putin, and whatever you think of their military right now, their nuclear capabilities are extraordinary.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, at least he has a measure or at least gives the illusion of control, which is probably why the West has left him alone. He gets ousted and the danger is that Russia becomes a fractured and rogue state. Then the fun will really begin.

RR, what are the experts saying about potential support for Prigozhin from within the establishment?

Interesting angle on Al-Jazeera just now about the repercussions of a potential Wagner collapse for conflicts in other countries where they have an active or tacit presence, such as Sudan, Mali, Libya or Syria.

I bet Trump is very interested if Wagner marches into Moscow n depose Putin.

He will be contacting proud boys n oath jeepets toit sweet

Things progressing

Wagner control the military city of Rostov n r heading 2ward Moscow with no resustance

Not sure the relevance of anything anti-semitic in the context of this other than the group is named after the supposedly anti-semite composer though more probably because of his polemic and nationalism? Ironically Prigozhin is of Jewish origin.

Has Putin shat it from Moscow as well?

Putin's plane - special aircraft Il-96-300PU - left Moscow at 14:16 (11:16 GMT), and headed north-west, according to the FlightRadar tracking service.

comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 16 minutes ago
RR, what are the experts saying about potential support for Prigozhin from within the establishment?
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I think it's useful to define what we mean by 'establishment' in Putin's Russia. Under Yeltsin the oligarchs were powerful. The president was arguably a figure who exercised authority to the extent that he served the interests of the ruling class. On rising to power, Putin moved quickly, using his control of the FSB, to flip that situation. Since his consolidation of power, the billionaires (many of them installed by Putin) get to enjoy their money only to the extent that they serve the interests of the state, as defined by Putin. Private wealth can easily be expropriated or made inaccessible if you're thrown in jail (or out of a window). Moreover, much of the wealth that the new aristocracy enjoys isn't actually in their own name, but sits in shell companies / enterprises with budgets they control. That can be taken away as easily as it can be awarded.

In this scenario, the Russian elite is dependent on Putin, and to that extent can be relied upon to be loyal to him. But this shouldn't be confused with 'support' for him. If it starts to look as though Putin's power is vulnerable, then self-interest dictates that they may look elsewhere for security. If he falls, there will be an almighty scramble - not just the big one to control the Russian state, but on a lower level to protect fortunes and fiefdoms. I'd envisage that transferal of loyalty will be rapid and unsentimental when Putin starts to look too weak to guarantee the elite's stake in the economy.

These people won't support Prigozhin and I'd say it's unlikely that the mutiny will succeed. But there's still very serious damage in the way it has exposed lack of authority over lower ranks, and the fact that it has progressed this far.

This Wagner guy created all thetroll n bot farms from 2016-

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 16 minutes ago
RR, what are the experts saying about potential support for Prigozhin from within the establishment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it's useful to define what we mean by 'establishment' in Putin's Russia. Under Yeltsin the oligarchs were powerful. The president was arguably a figure who exercised authority to the extent that he served the interests of the ruling class. On rising to power, Putin moved quickly, using his control of the FSB, to flip that situation. Since his consolidation of power, the billionaires (many of them installed by Putin) get to enjoy their money only to the extent that they serve the interests of the state, as defined by Putin. Private wealth can easily be expropriated or made inaccessible if you're thrown in jail (or out of a window). Moreover, much of the wealth that the new aristocracy enjoys isn't actually in their own name, but sits in shell companies / enterprises with budgets they control. That can be taken away as easily as it can be awarded.

In this scenario, the Russian elite is dependent on Putin, and to that extent can be relied upon to be loyal to him. But this shouldn't be confused with 'support' for him. If it starts to look as though Putin's power is vulnerable, then self-interest dictates that they may look elsewhere for security. If he falls, there will be an almighty scramble - not just the big one to control the Russian state, but on a lower level to protect fortunes and fiefdoms. I'd envisage that transferal of loyalty will be rapid and unsentimental when Putin starts to look too weak to guarantee the elite's stake in the economy.

These people won't support Prigozhin and I'd say it's unlikely that the mutiny will succeed. But there's still very serious damage in the way it has exposed lack of authority over lower ranks, and the fact that it has progressed this far.
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Yup

The overpowerful nobility

Kings need the nobility 2 support them butt when the nobility get to rich n powerful the king pisition is weak

comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 7 minutes ago
Has Putin shat it from Moscow as well?

Putin's plane - special aircraft Il-96-300PU - left Moscow at 14:16 (11:16 GMT), and headed north-west, according to the FlightRadar tracking service.
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Would think his fear is a full uprising right now from the people so his whereabouts will be hard to pin for a bit i suspect

Not seen any news so are they saying the russian army have effectively downed tools and are not confronting Prigozhin?