Slight tangent but a bloke I used to work with, his wife was one of the very few (circa 50 I believe) who did die as a result of the vaccine.
He wrote a posted a message afterwards imploring people to go and get a vaccine. Through unimaginable grief he still encouraged people to get vaccinated because he believed it was the right thing to do and what his wife would have wanted to do.
I was absolutely floored reading it. The guys an absolute champ in my eyes.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 16 minutes ago
My view on Covid was that it was very much a threat and that, for some, that threat was deadly.
The vaccines saved a number of lives but sadly, like with any drug, some experienced side-effects.
What I've found is that conspiracy theories will jump at any 'unexplained death' and state it's to do with the vaccine but they never seem to consider it could be due to Covid itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The way some people react you'd think that they didn't believe death existed before the covid vaccine, as if it was the apple that cast us from the Garden of Eden.
Admittedly it's mostly online stuff by a guy in his 80s can die in a car crash and people treat it as if it's a coverup for "another" vaccine death.
Hospitals were as empty as they have ever been in years during covid in this country. If there was really a deadly virus going around then surely this would not have been the case even with the lockdowns.
======
I am surprised that hospitals in Ireland are and always have been empty. Maybe drinking 10 pints of Guiness everyday really does cure all.
We should try it in the UK. It would solve the NHS crisis overnight.
comment by Drunken Hobo (U7360)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 16 minutes ago
My view on Covid was that it was very much a threat and that, for some, that threat was deadly.
The vaccines saved a number of lives but sadly, like with any drug, some experienced side-effects.
What I've found is that conspiracy theories will jump at any 'unexplained death' and state it's to do with the vaccine but they never seem to consider it could be due to Covid itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The way some people react you'd think that they didn't believe death existed before the covid vaccine, as if it was the apple that cast us from the Garden of Eden.
Admittedly it's mostly online stuff by a guy in his 80s can die in a car crash and people treat it as if it's a coverup for "another" vaccine death.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My Dad had a heart attack when he was 48yo in 1999. Way before any vaccine!
I'm not for one second suggesting the vaccine didn't cause illness/death in some people but if it was as dangerous as some people state there'd be far more casualties.
comment by RB&W - One man down, One nil up (U21434)
posted 4 minutes ago
Hospitals were as empty as they have ever been in years during covid in this country. If there was really a deadly virus going around then surely this would not have been the case even with the lockdowns.
======
I am surprised that hospitals in Ireland are and always have been empty. Maybe drinking 10 pints of Guiness everyday really does cure all.
We should try it in the UK. It would solve the NHS crisis overnight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hospitals in Ireland are never empty. It’s a joke here.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - One man down, One nil up (U21434)
posted 4 minutes ago
Hospitals were as empty as they have ever been in years during covid in this country. If there was really a deadly virus going around then surely this would not have been the case even with the lockdowns.
======
I am surprised that hospitals in Ireland are and always have been empty. Maybe drinking 10 pints of Guiness everyday really does cure all.
We should try it in the UK. It would solve the NHS crisis overnight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hospitals in Ireland are never empty. It’s a joke here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
oh ok. You got confused then?
Hospitals were as empty as they have ever been in years during covid in this country. If there was really a deadly virus going around then surely this would not have been the case even with the lockdowns.
-----------------------------------------------
I can't speak for Ireland, but in the UK a lot of medical treatments were suspended due to Covid during peaks of infection, for the valid reason that having crowded waiting rooms etc. would have contributed significant numbers of new infections, disproportionately impacting sick and immuno-compromised people who were at most risk of serious illness and death. Others on this forum have argued that creating a backlog in cancer care wasn't worth the Covid-prevention methods, because more people may have died from late detection/treatment than from Covid. I think we have to be very careful about these claims. Firstly, I haven't seen evidence to support the trope that a substantial portion of the tens of thousands of recorded Covid deaths were people who died merely 'with' Covid rather than because of it. Secondly, if we want to argue that the preventative measures caused more damage than good, then we need to prove that deaths caused by lockdowns/vaccinations exceed not the number of deaths that actually happened, but the number of deaths that would have occurred without those measures. What the lockdown 'sceptics' were effectively arguing for was giving Covid the same free hit at hospitals and GP surgeries as it had in care homes when the government decided it was OK for infected and untested people to be admitted.
A final point on Covid arguments: we should all be cautious about applying anecdotal evidence. Personally, I lost my father to Covid, my mother-in-law came within a whisker of dying and there were several acquaintances / friends of friends around me who passed away in 2020 and early 2021, and I know of several people whose lives have been debilitated by Long Covid on that same level of personal sphere. But we have to rely on data and on qualified professionals to interpret it, and that's what convinces me that the UK's response to Covid tended more to complacency than excess, and that Long Covid is going to be a significant public health and economic productivity problem for many years.
comment by RB&W - One man down, One nil up (U21434)
posted 18 minutes ago
Hospitals were as empty as they have ever been in years during covid in this country. If there was really a deadly virus going around then surely this would not have been the case even with the lockdowns.
======
I am surprised that hospitals in Ireland are and always have been empty. Maybe drinking 10 pints of Guiness everyday really does cure all.
We should try it in the UK. It would solve the NHS crisis overnight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Certainly wasn't my understanding from the analysis carried out pre & post covid. Whilst Ireland faired better than the UK, hospitals were far from empty. Where wasn't!
"Prior to the pandemic, the Irish public hospital and community care system had severe capacity constraints"
https://www.economicsobservatory.com/how-irelands-healthcare-system-coping-coronavirus#:~:text=While%20the%20economic%20situation%20in,Smith%20et%20al%2C%202019).
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/why-icu-beds-are-at-the-heart-of-irelands-latest-covid-crisis-1216600.html
Hospitals here in the North also struggled to meet demand, with ambulances queued outside and patients being treated in car parks etc. Was absolutely grim.
Hospital ER were overwhelmed becuz there r not many ER spots anyways as they r 2 expensive 2 run if not fill at all times. So when there is lotsa people needed em they run outta room immediately.
I was in Manhattan every few days during the initial height n it was scary.
I’ve left nursing but my brother is still a nurse practitioner and he said the hospitals, nurses and doctors were absolutely overwhelmed.
I find it quite annoying that people doubt this tbh. They are the best of us.
comment by Forzus Maximus Dickwaddus (U22472)
posted 13 minutes ago
Hospital ER were overwhelmed becuz there r not many ER spots anyways as they r 2 expensive 2 run if not fill at all times. So when there is lotsa people needed em they run outta room immediately.
I was in Manhattan every few days during the initial height n it was scary.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you sure? 'Cos Tracy off Facebook says you're lying.
Her mate's uncle's dog's sister is a nurse and she says her hospital in Tameside was empty all through the pandemic.
comment by Jalisco Red (U4195)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Forzus Maximus Dickwaddus (U22472)
posted 13 minutes ago
Hospital ER were overwhelmed becuz there r not many ER spots anyways as they r 2 expensive 2 run if not fill at all times. So when there is lotsa people needed em they run outta room immediately.
I was in Manhattan every few days during the initial height n it was scary.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you sure? 'Cos Tracy off Facebook says you're lying.
Her mate's uncle's dog's sister is a nurse and she says her hospital in Tameside was empty all through the pandemic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ikr
I spent my time going around the hispitals n organizing flow of physical logistics.
It is annoying when people say ignirant/romg stuff but whutever
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 36 minutes ago
A final point on Covid arguments: we should all be cautious about applying anecdotal evidence. Personally, I lost my father to Covid, my mother-in-law came within a whisker of dying and there were several acquaintances / friends of friends around me who passed away in 2020 and early 2021, and I know of several people whose lives have been debilitated by Long Covid on that same level of personal sphere. But we have to rely on data and on qualified professionals to interpret it, and that's what convinces me that the UK's response to Covid tended more to complacency than excess, and that Long Covid is going to be a significant public health and economic productivity problem for many years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is basically my response to any such argument. What does the data say? How much of a problem is this really in reality? Then they will come back with "yeah but I know someone who etc." "I saw this, therefore this"
The use of anecdotal evidence ultimately causes Brexit, genocide etc. These are really big things to cause when that form of evidence is actually of little value when looking at the bigger picture.
Comment deleted by Article Creator
I would avoid Covid deniers - definitely dangerous. I can’t lump flat earthers in with them though. Flat earthers are utterly mental but ultimately harmless. I’ve never met a flat earther who truly believes what they are re saying and it’s dead easy to pick holes in everything they say.
For those that haven’t seen it - watch the documentary “behind the curve” it’s faaacking hilarious
BBC Sounds has Jon Ronsons Things fell apart about conspiracy theory and culture war origin stories, great listen, how people and the outthere things they believe in are just plain weird!
comment by Frank van Eijs (U1734)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 36 minutes ago
A final point on Covid arguments: we should all be cautious about applying anecdotal evidence. Personally, I lost my father to Covid, my mother-in-law came within a whisker of dying and there were several acquaintances / friends of friends around me who passed away in 2020 and early 2021, and I know of several people whose lives have been debilitated by Long Covid on that same level of personal sphere. But we have to rely on data and on qualified professionals to interpret it, and that's what convinces me that the UK's response to Covid tended more to complacency than excess, and that Long Covid is going to be a significant public health and economic productivity problem for many years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is basically my response to any such argument. What does the data say? How much of a problem is this really in reality? Then they will come back with "yeah but I know someone who etc." "I saw this, therefore this"
The use of anecdotal evidence ultimately causes Brexit, genocide etc. These are really big things to cause when that form of evidence is actually of little value when looking at the bigger picture.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry
The world is now so incredibly complex that there are things we have to accept are beyond our comprehension as far as truly in depth understanding goes. RNA vaccines, Crispr, moon landings, 5G, subatomic particles etc etc.
Throw in a person's ego and unwillingness to accept that without a life specialising in that field they probably won't have more than a rudimentary comprehension, then it's far easier for them to accept the conspiracy theory than to accept they have to defer a degree of trust to experts at multi billion dollar companies.
I have noticed a new form of anecdotal evidence which is even worse than real anecdotal evidence. I shall refer to it as inferred anecdotal evidence.
For example, a headline can be written in a certain way that it can get its audience to make up people in their head and get angry at them. So you get lots of people getting angry at essentially anecdotal evidence that is just made up in their head. They aren't actually reading or hearing someone's actual views.
Obvious examples such as everyone commenting on a facebook post "bloody snowflakes getting offended by everything" when no one has expressed any such views. It can apply to many aspects of life.
Admit it, who else gets annoyed at some made up conspiracy nut in their own head? Imagining what you think they WOULD say on a certain issue?
Maybe imagined anecdotal evidence is a better term.
Pre-Covid I think I found most conspiracy theorists kind of interesting, or I was at least curious about them. Some of the conspiracy theories around terror attacks irritated me, but generally I considered these people pretty much harmless (if misguided), and mildly amusing, non-sinister fringe element of society.
Anti-vaxxers I didn't really know anything about, and thought they were too small in number to be significant. They had their views, and that was that.
Boy, have I changed my opinions in the last 3-4 years.
Be more mental than them.
When they say the earth is flat, say you don't listen to them mainstream nutjobs. The world is actually cone shaped.
They say something crazy like the Saudi's did 9/11 and not the yanks. I say the towers were never even there, they were holograms.
When they say we never landed on the moon, it was done in a hollywood studio. I say you don't believe Hollywood exists do you. Pfft you haven't even begun to understand keep digging then when they ask for an explanation, say you need to get there yourself, do the research.
Use their silly tactics against them.
comment by HB Maybe Beale wasn't the mastermind (U21935)
posted 2 minutes ago
Be more mental than them.
When they say the earth is flat, say you don't listen to them mainstream nutjobs. The world is actually cone shaped.
They say something crazy like the Saudi's did 9/11 and not the yanks. I say the towers were never even there, they were holograms.
When they say we never landed on the moon, it was done in a hollywood studio. I say you don't believe Hollywood exists do you. Pfft you haven't even begun to understand keep digging then when they ask for an explanation, say you need to get there yourself, do the research.
Use their silly tactics against them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Admin1 (U1)
posted 2 minutes ago
The world is now so incredibly complex that there are things we have to accept are beyond our comprehension as far as truly in depth understanding goes. RNA vaccines, Crispr, moon landings, 5G, subatomic particles etc etc.
Throw in a person's ego and unwillingness to accept that without a life specialising in that field they probably won't have more than a rudimentary comprehension, then it's far easier for them to accept the conspiracy theory than to accept they have to defer a degree of trust to experts at multi billion dollar companies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
People tend to prefer a real world explanation for something rather than statistics or complex science. So if I were to say that smoking 10 cigarettes per day gives you a 60% chance of developing lung cancer when you are over 50, and show some data to support it, people whose brains are not capable of understanding statistics might be inclined to reject it because they haven't seen real life evidence of it.
BUT if they saw their dad die of lung cancer at aged 60 and he smoked 10 cigs a day then they would put far more emphasis on that, despite it being completely insignificant compared to the stats you have shown them.
Unfortunately the majority of people think like this, because they are stupid, so you end up with outrage at things that are statistically not a problem, but people have seen one or two real life examples of them.
People (remember the majority are stupid) and their perception are a huge problem and they need to be eliminated from any important decisions due to their very limited ability to interpret the world. AI can solve things in the future.
You wouldn't type something into ChatGPT and it comes back with "well I once saw this so that's the definitive answer" Then use that as the basis of governing a country, yet, indirectly we do that with our crappy limited humans that live here.
I HATE us.
comment by Forzus Maximus Dickwaddus (U22472)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by HB Maybe Beale wasn't the mastermind (U21935)
posted 2 minutes ago
Be more mental than them.
When they say the earth is flat, say you don't listen to them mainstream nutjobs. The world is actually cone shaped.
They say something crazy like the Saudi's did 9/11 and not the yanks. I say the towers were never even there, they were holograms.
When they say we never landed on the moon, it was done in a hollywood studio. I say you don't believe Hollywood exists do you. Pfft you haven't even begun to understand keep digging then when they ask for an explanation, say you need to get there yourself, do the research.
Use their silly tactics against them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And accuse them of being 'controlled opposition'
Sign in if you want to comment
OT: How to deal with full-on conspiracists?
Page 2 of 6
6
posted on 24/1/24
Slight tangent but a bloke I used to work with, his wife was one of the very few (circa 50 I believe) who did die as a result of the vaccine.
He wrote a posted a message afterwards imploring people to go and get a vaccine. Through unimaginable grief he still encouraged people to get vaccinated because he believed it was the right thing to do and what his wife would have wanted to do.
I was absolutely floored reading it. The guys an absolute champ in my eyes.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 16 minutes ago
My view on Covid was that it was very much a threat and that, for some, that threat was deadly.
The vaccines saved a number of lives but sadly, like with any drug, some experienced side-effects.
What I've found is that conspiracy theories will jump at any 'unexplained death' and state it's to do with the vaccine but they never seem to consider it could be due to Covid itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The way some people react you'd think that they didn't believe death existed before the covid vaccine, as if it was the apple that cast us from the Garden of Eden.
Admittedly it's mostly online stuff by a guy in his 80s can die in a car crash and people treat it as if it's a coverup for "another" vaccine death.
posted on 24/1/24
Hospitals were as empty as they have ever been in years during covid in this country. If there was really a deadly virus going around then surely this would not have been the case even with the lockdowns.
======
I am surprised that hospitals in Ireland are and always have been empty. Maybe drinking 10 pints of Guiness everyday really does cure all.
We should try it in the UK. It would solve the NHS crisis overnight.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Drunken Hobo (U7360)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 16 minutes ago
My view on Covid was that it was very much a threat and that, for some, that threat was deadly.
The vaccines saved a number of lives but sadly, like with any drug, some experienced side-effects.
What I've found is that conspiracy theories will jump at any 'unexplained death' and state it's to do with the vaccine but they never seem to consider it could be due to Covid itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The way some people react you'd think that they didn't believe death existed before the covid vaccine, as if it was the apple that cast us from the Garden of Eden.
Admittedly it's mostly online stuff by a guy in his 80s can die in a car crash and people treat it as if it's a coverup for "another" vaccine death.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My Dad had a heart attack when he was 48yo in 1999. Way before any vaccine!
I'm not for one second suggesting the vaccine didn't cause illness/death in some people but if it was as dangerous as some people state there'd be far more casualties.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by RB&W - One man down, One nil up (U21434)
posted 4 minutes ago
Hospitals were as empty as they have ever been in years during covid in this country. If there was really a deadly virus going around then surely this would not have been the case even with the lockdowns.
======
I am surprised that hospitals in Ireland are and always have been empty. Maybe drinking 10 pints of Guiness everyday really does cure all.
We should try it in the UK. It would solve the NHS crisis overnight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hospitals in Ireland are never empty. It’s a joke here.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - One man down, One nil up (U21434)
posted 4 minutes ago
Hospitals were as empty as they have ever been in years during covid in this country. If there was really a deadly virus going around then surely this would not have been the case even with the lockdowns.
======
I am surprised that hospitals in Ireland are and always have been empty. Maybe drinking 10 pints of Guiness everyday really does cure all.
We should try it in the UK. It would solve the NHS crisis overnight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hospitals in Ireland are never empty. It’s a joke here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
oh ok. You got confused then?
posted on 24/1/24
Hospitals were as empty as they have ever been in years during covid in this country. If there was really a deadly virus going around then surely this would not have been the case even with the lockdowns.
-----------------------------------------------
I can't speak for Ireland, but in the UK a lot of medical treatments were suspended due to Covid during peaks of infection, for the valid reason that having crowded waiting rooms etc. would have contributed significant numbers of new infections, disproportionately impacting sick and immuno-compromised people who were at most risk of serious illness and death. Others on this forum have argued that creating a backlog in cancer care wasn't worth the Covid-prevention methods, because more people may have died from late detection/treatment than from Covid. I think we have to be very careful about these claims. Firstly, I haven't seen evidence to support the trope that a substantial portion of the tens of thousands of recorded Covid deaths were people who died merely 'with' Covid rather than because of it. Secondly, if we want to argue that the preventative measures caused more damage than good, then we need to prove that deaths caused by lockdowns/vaccinations exceed not the number of deaths that actually happened, but the number of deaths that would have occurred without those measures. What the lockdown 'sceptics' were effectively arguing for was giving Covid the same free hit at hospitals and GP surgeries as it had in care homes when the government decided it was OK for infected and untested people to be admitted.
posted on 24/1/24
A final point on Covid arguments: we should all be cautious about applying anecdotal evidence. Personally, I lost my father to Covid, my mother-in-law came within a whisker of dying and there were several acquaintances / friends of friends around me who passed away in 2020 and early 2021, and I know of several people whose lives have been debilitated by Long Covid on that same level of personal sphere. But we have to rely on data and on qualified professionals to interpret it, and that's what convinces me that the UK's response to Covid tended more to complacency than excess, and that Long Covid is going to be a significant public health and economic productivity problem for many years.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by RB&W - One man down, One nil up (U21434)
posted 18 minutes ago
Hospitals were as empty as they have ever been in years during covid in this country. If there was really a deadly virus going around then surely this would not have been the case even with the lockdowns.
======
I am surprised that hospitals in Ireland are and always have been empty. Maybe drinking 10 pints of Guiness everyday really does cure all.
We should try it in the UK. It would solve the NHS crisis overnight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Certainly wasn't my understanding from the analysis carried out pre & post covid. Whilst Ireland faired better than the UK, hospitals were far from empty. Where wasn't!
"Prior to the pandemic, the Irish public hospital and community care system had severe capacity constraints"
https://www.economicsobservatory.com/how-irelands-healthcare-system-coping-coronavirus#:~:text=While%20the%20economic%20situation%20in,Smith%20et%20al%2C%202019).
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/why-icu-beds-are-at-the-heart-of-irelands-latest-covid-crisis-1216600.html
Hospitals here in the North also struggled to meet demand, with ambulances queued outside and patients being treated in car parks etc. Was absolutely grim.
posted on 24/1/24
Hospital ER were overwhelmed becuz there r not many ER spots anyways as they r 2 expensive 2 run if not fill at all times. So when there is lotsa people needed em they run outta room immediately.
I was in Manhattan every few days during the initial height n it was scary.
posted on 24/1/24
I’ve left nursing but my brother is still a nurse practitioner and he said the hospitals, nurses and doctors were absolutely overwhelmed.
I find it quite annoying that people doubt this tbh. They are the best of us.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Forzus Maximus Dickwaddus (U22472)
posted 13 minutes ago
Hospital ER were overwhelmed becuz there r not many ER spots anyways as they r 2 expensive 2 run if not fill at all times. So when there is lotsa people needed em they run outta room immediately.
I was in Manhattan every few days during the initial height n it was scary.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you sure? 'Cos Tracy off Facebook says you're lying.
Her mate's uncle's dog's sister is a nurse and she says her hospital in Tameside was empty all through the pandemic.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Jalisco Red (U4195)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Forzus Maximus Dickwaddus (U22472)
posted 13 minutes ago
Hospital ER were overwhelmed becuz there r not many ER spots anyways as they r 2 expensive 2 run if not fill at all times. So when there is lotsa people needed em they run outta room immediately.
I was in Manhattan every few days during the initial height n it was scary.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you sure? 'Cos Tracy off Facebook says you're lying.
Her mate's uncle's dog's sister is a nurse and she says her hospital in Tameside was empty all through the pandemic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ikr
I spent my time going around the hispitals n organizing flow of physical logistics.
It is annoying when people say ignirant/romg stuff but whutever
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 36 minutes ago
A final point on Covid arguments: we should all be cautious about applying anecdotal evidence. Personally, I lost my father to Covid, my mother-in-law came within a whisker of dying and there were several acquaintances / friends of friends around me who passed away in 2020 and early 2021, and I know of several people whose lives have been debilitated by Long Covid on that same level of personal sphere. But we have to rely on data and on qualified professionals to interpret it, and that's what convinces me that the UK's response to Covid tended more to complacency than excess, and that Long Covid is going to be a significant public health and economic productivity problem for many years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is basically my response to any such argument. What does the data say? How much of a problem is this really in reality? Then they will come back with "yeah but I know someone who etc." "I saw this, therefore this"
The use of anecdotal evidence ultimately causes Brexit, genocide etc. These are really big things to cause when that form of evidence is actually of little value when looking at the bigger picture.
posted on 24/1/24
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 24/1/24
I would avoid Covid deniers - definitely dangerous. I can’t lump flat earthers in with them though. Flat earthers are utterly mental but ultimately harmless. I’ve never met a flat earther who truly believes what they are re saying and it’s dead easy to pick holes in everything they say.
For those that haven’t seen it - watch the documentary “behind the curve” it’s faaacking hilarious
posted on 24/1/24
BBC Sounds has Jon Ronsons Things fell apart about conspiracy theory and culture war origin stories, great listen, how people and the outthere things they believe in are just plain weird!
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Frank van Eijs (U1734)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 36 minutes ago
A final point on Covid arguments: we should all be cautious about applying anecdotal evidence. Personally, I lost my father to Covid, my mother-in-law came within a whisker of dying and there were several acquaintances / friends of friends around me who passed away in 2020 and early 2021, and I know of several people whose lives have been debilitated by Long Covid on that same level of personal sphere. But we have to rely on data and on qualified professionals to interpret it, and that's what convinces me that the UK's response to Covid tended more to complacency than excess, and that Long Covid is going to be a significant public health and economic productivity problem for many years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is basically my response to any such argument. What does the data say? How much of a problem is this really in reality? Then they will come back with "yeah but I know someone who etc." "I saw this, therefore this"
The use of anecdotal evidence ultimately causes Brexit, genocide etc. These are really big things to cause when that form of evidence is actually of little value when looking at the bigger picture.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry
posted on 24/1/24
The world is now so incredibly complex that there are things we have to accept are beyond our comprehension as far as truly in depth understanding goes. RNA vaccines, Crispr, moon landings, 5G, subatomic particles etc etc.
Throw in a person's ego and unwillingness to accept that without a life specialising in that field they probably won't have more than a rudimentary comprehension, then it's far easier for them to accept the conspiracy theory than to accept they have to defer a degree of trust to experts at multi billion dollar companies.
posted on 24/1/24
I have noticed a new form of anecdotal evidence which is even worse than real anecdotal evidence. I shall refer to it as inferred anecdotal evidence.
For example, a headline can be written in a certain way that it can get its audience to make up people in their head and get angry at them. So you get lots of people getting angry at essentially anecdotal evidence that is just made up in their head. They aren't actually reading or hearing someone's actual views.
Obvious examples such as everyone commenting on a facebook post "bloody snowflakes getting offended by everything" when no one has expressed any such views. It can apply to many aspects of life.
Admit it, who else gets annoyed at some made up conspiracy nut in their own head? Imagining what you think they WOULD say on a certain issue?
Maybe imagined anecdotal evidence is a better term.
posted on 24/1/24
Pre-Covid I think I found most conspiracy theorists kind of interesting, or I was at least curious about them. Some of the conspiracy theories around terror attacks irritated me, but generally I considered these people pretty much harmless (if misguided), and mildly amusing, non-sinister fringe element of society.
Anti-vaxxers I didn't really know anything about, and thought they were too small in number to be significant. They had their views, and that was that.
Boy, have I changed my opinions in the last 3-4 years.
posted on 24/1/24
Be more mental than them.
When they say the earth is flat, say you don't listen to them mainstream nutjobs. The world is actually cone shaped.
They say something crazy like the Saudi's did 9/11 and not the yanks. I say the towers were never even there, they were holograms.
When they say we never landed on the moon, it was done in a hollywood studio. I say you don't believe Hollywood exists do you. Pfft you haven't even begun to understand keep digging then when they ask for an explanation, say you need to get there yourself, do the research.
Use their silly tactics against them.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by HB Maybe Beale wasn't the mastermind (U21935)
posted 2 minutes ago
Be more mental than them.
When they say the earth is flat, say you don't listen to them mainstream nutjobs. The world is actually cone shaped.
They say something crazy like the Saudi's did 9/11 and not the yanks. I say the towers were never even there, they were holograms.
When they say we never landed on the moon, it was done in a hollywood studio. I say you don't believe Hollywood exists do you. Pfft you haven't even begun to understand keep digging then when they ask for an explanation, say you need to get there yourself, do the research.
Use their silly tactics against them.
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posted on 24/1/24
comment by Admin1 (U1)
posted 2 minutes ago
The world is now so incredibly complex that there are things we have to accept are beyond our comprehension as far as truly in depth understanding goes. RNA vaccines, Crispr, moon landings, 5G, subatomic particles etc etc.
Throw in a person's ego and unwillingness to accept that without a life specialising in that field they probably won't have more than a rudimentary comprehension, then it's far easier for them to accept the conspiracy theory than to accept they have to defer a degree of trust to experts at multi billion dollar companies.
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People tend to prefer a real world explanation for something rather than statistics or complex science. So if I were to say that smoking 10 cigarettes per day gives you a 60% chance of developing lung cancer when you are over 50, and show some data to support it, people whose brains are not capable of understanding statistics might be inclined to reject it because they haven't seen real life evidence of it.
BUT if they saw their dad die of lung cancer at aged 60 and he smoked 10 cigs a day then they would put far more emphasis on that, despite it being completely insignificant compared to the stats you have shown them.
Unfortunately the majority of people think like this, because they are stupid, so you end up with outrage at things that are statistically not a problem, but people have seen one or two real life examples of them.
People (remember the majority are stupid) and their perception are a huge problem and they need to be eliminated from any important decisions due to their very limited ability to interpret the world. AI can solve things in the future.
You wouldn't type something into ChatGPT and it comes back with "well I once saw this so that's the definitive answer" Then use that as the basis of governing a country, yet, indirectly we do that with our crappy limited humans that live here.
I HATE us.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Forzus Maximus Dickwaddus (U22472)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by HB Maybe Beale wasn't the mastermind (U21935)
posted 2 minutes ago
Be more mental than them.
When they say the earth is flat, say you don't listen to them mainstream nutjobs. The world is actually cone shaped.
They say something crazy like the Saudi's did 9/11 and not the yanks. I say the towers were never even there, they were holograms.
When they say we never landed on the moon, it was done in a hollywood studio. I say you don't believe Hollywood exists do you. Pfft you haven't even begun to understand keep digging then when they ask for an explanation, say you need to get there yourself, do the research.
Use their silly tactics against them.
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And accuse them of being 'controlled opposition'
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