comment by ambivalent (U22347)
posted 2 minutes ago
He should. We only got the final because we faced far inferior teams, and still struggled to beat them.
Realistically, I think our choice of replacements are Poch, Potter or Howe. My preference would be Poch, but would take the other two.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How has Poch shown a winning mentality to compete in major finals or to be able to handle the massive pressure of managing a big club and winning things in the process?
I’m not sure he has that track record. I think ultimately we are looking for someone very very special because it needs to be someone who can tactically evolve us while also managing the ridiculous level of expectation and pressure this country puts its players under
We should keep unless a genuinely better candidate wants the job.
No point rolling the dice only to end up with Wizard or Howe who have won the Swedish cup between them.
If we can get Ancellotti, Pep, Klopp - then go for it
A 16 year old for Spain had a much better tournament than Saka. Our players are massively overrated.
Welcome Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
I also think a similar question could be asked of Arteta - he has got Arsenal close a couple of times now but can’t get them over the line - do you stick or go with another manager who might do it?
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
A 16 year old for Spain had a much better tournament than Saka. Our players are massively overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That 16 year old outshone just about everyone. 1 phenom does not negate the ability of every other player on the continent you whopper
Thanks and goodbye to Southgate.
He's done some good things in terms of mentality that can now be carried on by the next manager, who hopefully has a more modern and progressive way of playing football.
I'd sound out Eddie Howe.
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 4 minutes ago
I also think a similar question could be asked of Arteta - he has got Arsenal close a couple of times now but can’t get them over the line - do you stick or go with another manager who might do it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Finishing 2nd to a doped super club while playing good football vs scraping through every game, then running
out of luck in the final. Quite different.
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 14 minutes ago
A 16 year old for Spain had a much better tournament than Saka. Our players are massively overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The lengths people go to to criticise Saka
Yamal was one of the best players of the tournament, should almost every other player be going home in shame?
Saka was one of England's better players which is some going for a wide player in Safegate's system whereby wingers are isolated with no support from full backs and either have to pass it back to the full back or risk dribbling a few players to find space to pass to a teammate.
A lot of times you'll have situations where people say its easy to blame the managers and how we should be blaming the players for underperforming.
However this time the buck really does stop with the manager. As much as I've criticised Kane as an example, I can see that he's underperformed because he's playing in a system and set of tactics that don't suit him.
The only player that has underperformed regardless of Southgate's faults is Walker imo. He was defensively worse than he is for City, and the defence was the best part of Southgate's management.
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
A 16 year old for Spain had a much better tournament than Saka. Our players are massively overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That 16 year old outshone just about everyone. 1 phenom does not negate the ability of every other player on the continent you whopper
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Score Kane, Foden Bellingham Saka and Rice out of 10 for the tournament.
If you give any of them above a 6 you're delusional.
Kane and Foden would be as low as a 3/4 for me. Rice probably 5. Saka and Bellingham a generous 6.
None of our so called stars showed up.
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 2 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 6 minutes ago
“ Don’t want to waste another tournament with the best players in the international game”
Shocked people still believe this to be honest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This "best squad" thing is a red herring. There are huge gaps in our squad, especially in central defence and midfield. But I do think that the Spanish coach would have got a tune out of our squad. We have no patterns of play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok what squad is better?
Some squads have a couple of better players, maybe a better keeper, maybe a better defence, but who had a better 26 players than England at that tournament?
A lot of people saying players underperform because of tactics - then it's the manager's fault. Or he adapts the tactics to his players, or he picks players who suit his tactics. Playing long balls up to Kane is futile, he doesn't have the strength to shield the ball like Toney for example. Likewise, Kane likes to drop deep, a bit useless when you are playing counter attack as there is never anyone in the box to pass to.
In essence, we picked our best players on paper, even though they were out of form and didn't suit the system. Result, 3 players fighting for the space in the number 10 position, no control or possession in midfield, and no attacking shape.
We always looked better with Toney/Watkins/Palmer on the pitch, so why not bite the bullet and start with two of these three players?
Immediately after the game the likes of Lineker etc were saying they think Southgate will walk away this time. Wasn’t this the general consensus after the last WC? Then Southgate pretended he was considering his future for a short time, before predictably signing up again to the best paid cushy number in football. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the same from him again. He’d be mad to walk away, surely, given it’s the best job he’s ever getting in football? All for it personally.
comment by Dave The Jackal (U22179)
posted 3 minutes ago
Immediately after the game the likes of Lineker etc were saying they think Southgate will walk away this time. Wasn’t this the general consensus after the last WC? Then Southgate pretended he was considering his future for a short time, before predictably signing up again to the best paid cushy number in football. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the same from him again. He’d be mad to walk away, surely, given it’s the best job he’s ever getting in football? All for it personally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure it’s that cushy. The level of pressure and expectation from this country and the entitled media is immense. The level of personal abuse is pretty horrific. The amount of stress you go through in tournament football is very intense.
I think he’ll stay because he’ll feel like he can take England one step further. The reality is he can’t. And I don’t there are many managers who could such is the insane level of expectation
Being a nice guy and saying the right things can get you far and Southgate is living proof of that....it won't make you a winner though.
He needs to walk away now. He has proven he can't get over the line time and time again.
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 4 minutes ago
A lot of people saying players underperform because of tactics - then it's the manager's fault. Or he adapts the tactics to his players, or he picks players who suit his tactics. Playing long balls up to Kane is futile, he doesn't have the strength to shield the ball like Toney for example. Likewise, Kane likes to drop deep, a bit useless when you are playing counter attack as there is never anyone in the box to pass to.
In essence, we picked our best players on paper, even though they were out of form and didn't suit the system. Result, 3 players fighting for the space in the number 10 position, no control or possession in midfield, and no attacking shape.
We always looked better with Toney/Watkins/Palmer on the pitch, so why not bite the bullet and start with two of these three players?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this. I feel like we got to the final in spite of Southgate, not because of him. His team selections and tactics are pretty poor. Time for him to move on, or we risk losing the opportunity we have with this group of players.
Would love Klopp to come in and take us into the world cup. I feel that he could really do a great job with the crop of players we currently have.
Got a feeling Michael Carrick is going to be the next England manager if they insist on the 'must be English' rule.
Can't see Eddie Howe wanting the job so that leaves Potter and Carrick really. McKenna could be a shout too but seems like club football suits him perfectly.
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
A 16 year old for Spain had a much better tournament than Saka. Our players are massively overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That 16 year old outshone just about everyone. 1 phenom does not negate the ability of every other player on the continent you whopper
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Score Kane, Foden Bellingham Saka and Rice out of 10 for the tournament.
If you give any of them above a 6 you're delusional.
Kane and Foden would be as low as a 3/4 for me. Rice probably 5. Saka and Bellingham a generous 6.
None of our so called stars showed up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Id have Saka slightly higher but the rest a 3 or 4.
The biggest issue to me throughout was Bellinghams position and how he played it, said it after the first game and it remained right through to the final.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
A 16 year old for Spain had a much better tournament than Saka. Our players are massively overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That 16 year old outshone just about everyone. 1 phenom does not negate the ability of every other player on the continent you whopper
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Score Kane, Foden Bellingham Saka and Rice out of 10 for the tournament.
If you give any of them above a 6 you're delusional.
Kane and Foden would be as low as a 3/4 for me. Rice probably 5. Saka and Bellingham a generous 6.
None of our so called stars showed up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Id have Saka slightly higher but the rest a 3 or 4.
The biggest issue to me throughout was Bellinghams position and how he played it, said it after the first game and it remained right through to the final.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was being generous but yeah I don't disagree with you. Saka probably the best of a bad bunch but even he wasn't that great.
The manager has to take a lot of the blame too. How you can have those attacking players at your disposal and look so toothless is anyone's guess.
Kane wasn't fit enough to be called up in my opinion. He's playing through pain quite evidently because he was barely running and it cost us big time.
Foden is a real mystery. Wonderful for Pep but he's always pretty pointless for England. Rashford has performed far better for the national team than he has. Stats back that up too.
I put it entirely on the manager, as bad as some players were, they were thrown under the bus a fair bit by him and he didn’t once react to what was the really obvious issue with Bellingham as he was banking on him continuously coming up with individual moments, which was always going to run out at some point.
Foden I thought was our best player against the Netherlands, which was the only time Southgate used him like Pep does and because he was getting the ball directly from the midfield and Saka, he was much more involved. Last night, having him man mark Rodri neutered him a fair bit again.
Kane, if you’re going to play him, he needs runners on the wings so players like a Rashford or a Sterling. That and he naturally drops into the position Bellingham mostly plays, I just don’t think the two of them work.
Like I said, the frustrating thing this time was it was so obvious right from the first game.
Sala showed up for parts of the last two games. Foden had a half decent first 45 in the semis. Stones and Guehi were fairly solid throughout and Shaw made a difference. But the reality is that none of our starting eleven were ever any more than functional.
Pickford can't pass, Walker is no centre back, Trippier 8s a third choice right back, Rice was anonymous or error strewn all tournament, Kane a waste of space. You can't carry so many deficiencies throughout a tournament, you have to change it, unless you are Mr Southgate that is. Awful!
yeah I think it's time to go after that - obviously Spain were a better side but it feels like we're always gonna go into these finals saying that because of this manager's style of play
It's telling that we went behind in all 4 of the knockout games. Whatever the plan was it didn't work did it?
We managed to claw our way back against 3 average opponents. Spain was a step too far though.
I have never rated him as a coach. Think he's a nice guy and that's about it. He's never going to be a winner at club or international level. You need more than good manners and a smart suit to win at the elite level. He hasn't got it.
Sign in if you want to comment
Southgate
Page 2 of 4
posted on 15/7/24
comment by ambivalent (U22347)
posted 2 minutes ago
He should. We only got the final because we faced far inferior teams, and still struggled to beat them.
Realistically, I think our choice of replacements are Poch, Potter or Howe. My preference would be Poch, but would take the other two.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How has Poch shown a winning mentality to compete in major finals or to be able to handle the massive pressure of managing a big club and winning things in the process?
I’m not sure he has that track record. I think ultimately we are looking for someone very very special because it needs to be someone who can tactically evolve us while also managing the ridiculous level of expectation and pressure this country puts its players under
posted on 15/7/24
We should keep unless a genuinely better candidate wants the job.
No point rolling the dice only to end up with Wizard or Howe who have won the Swedish cup between them.
If we can get Ancellotti, Pep, Klopp - then go for it
posted on 15/7/24
A 16 year old for Spain had a much better tournament than Saka. Our players are massively overrated.
posted on 15/7/24
Welcome Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
posted on 15/7/24
I also think a similar question could be asked of Arteta - he has got Arsenal close a couple of times now but can’t get them over the line - do you stick or go with another manager who might do it?
posted on 15/7/24
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
A 16 year old for Spain had a much better tournament than Saka. Our players are massively overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That 16 year old outshone just about everyone. 1 phenom does not negate the ability of every other player on the continent you whopper
posted on 15/7/24
Thanks and goodbye to Southgate.
He's done some good things in terms of mentality that can now be carried on by the next manager, who hopefully has a more modern and progressive way of playing football.
I'd sound out Eddie Howe.
posted on 15/7/24
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 4 minutes ago
I also think a similar question could be asked of Arteta - he has got Arsenal close a couple of times now but can’t get them over the line - do you stick or go with another manager who might do it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Finishing 2nd to a doped super club while playing good football vs scraping through every game, then running
out of luck in the final. Quite different.
posted on 15/7/24
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 14 minutes ago
A 16 year old for Spain had a much better tournament than Saka. Our players are massively overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The lengths people go to to criticise Saka
Yamal was one of the best players of the tournament, should almost every other player be going home in shame?
posted on 15/7/24
Saka was one of England's better players which is some going for a wide player in Safegate's system whereby wingers are isolated with no support from full backs and either have to pass it back to the full back or risk dribbling a few players to find space to pass to a teammate.
posted on 15/7/24
A lot of times you'll have situations where people say its easy to blame the managers and how we should be blaming the players for underperforming.
However this time the buck really does stop with the manager. As much as I've criticised Kane as an example, I can see that he's underperformed because he's playing in a system and set of tactics that don't suit him.
The only player that has underperformed regardless of Southgate's faults is Walker imo. He was defensively worse than he is for City, and the defence was the best part of Southgate's management.
posted on 15/7/24
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
A 16 year old for Spain had a much better tournament than Saka. Our players are massively overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That 16 year old outshone just about everyone. 1 phenom does not negate the ability of every other player on the continent you whopper
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Score Kane, Foden Bellingham Saka and Rice out of 10 for the tournament.
If you give any of them above a 6 you're delusional.
Kane and Foden would be as low as a 3/4 for me. Rice probably 5. Saka and Bellingham a generous 6.
None of our so called stars showed up.
posted on 15/7/24
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 2 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 6 minutes ago
“ Don’t want to waste another tournament with the best players in the international game”
Shocked people still believe this to be honest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This "best squad" thing is a red herring. There are huge gaps in our squad, especially in central defence and midfield. But I do think that the Spanish coach would have got a tune out of our squad. We have no patterns of play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok what squad is better?
Some squads have a couple of better players, maybe a better keeper, maybe a better defence, but who had a better 26 players than England at that tournament?
posted on 15/7/24
A lot of people saying players underperform because of tactics - then it's the manager's fault. Or he adapts the tactics to his players, or he picks players who suit his tactics. Playing long balls up to Kane is futile, he doesn't have the strength to shield the ball like Toney for example. Likewise, Kane likes to drop deep, a bit useless when you are playing counter attack as there is never anyone in the box to pass to.
In essence, we picked our best players on paper, even though they were out of form and didn't suit the system. Result, 3 players fighting for the space in the number 10 position, no control or possession in midfield, and no attacking shape.
We always looked better with Toney/Watkins/Palmer on the pitch, so why not bite the bullet and start with two of these three players?
posted on 15/7/24
Immediately after the game the likes of Lineker etc were saying they think Southgate will walk away this time. Wasn’t this the general consensus after the last WC? Then Southgate pretended he was considering his future for a short time, before predictably signing up again to the best paid cushy number in football. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the same from him again. He’d be mad to walk away, surely, given it’s the best job he’s ever getting in football? All for it personally.
posted on 15/7/24
comment by Dave The Jackal (U22179)
posted 3 minutes ago
Immediately after the game the likes of Lineker etc were saying they think Southgate will walk away this time. Wasn’t this the general consensus after the last WC? Then Southgate pretended he was considering his future for a short time, before predictably signing up again to the best paid cushy number in football. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the same from him again. He’d be mad to walk away, surely, given it’s the best job he’s ever getting in football? All for it personally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure it’s that cushy. The level of pressure and expectation from this country and the entitled media is immense. The level of personal abuse is pretty horrific. The amount of stress you go through in tournament football is very intense.
I think he’ll stay because he’ll feel like he can take England one step further. The reality is he can’t. And I don’t there are many managers who could such is the insane level of expectation
posted on 15/7/24
Being a nice guy and saying the right things can get you far and Southgate is living proof of that....it won't make you a winner though.
He needs to walk away now. He has proven he can't get over the line time and time again.
posted on 15/7/24
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 4 minutes ago
A lot of people saying players underperform because of tactics - then it's the manager's fault. Or he adapts the tactics to his players, or he picks players who suit his tactics. Playing long balls up to Kane is futile, he doesn't have the strength to shield the ball like Toney for example. Likewise, Kane likes to drop deep, a bit useless when you are playing counter attack as there is never anyone in the box to pass to.
In essence, we picked our best players on paper, even though they were out of form and didn't suit the system. Result, 3 players fighting for the space in the number 10 position, no control or possession in midfield, and no attacking shape.
We always looked better with Toney/Watkins/Palmer on the pitch, so why not bite the bullet and start with two of these three players?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this. I feel like we got to the final in spite of Southgate, not because of him. His team selections and tactics are pretty poor. Time for him to move on, or we risk losing the opportunity we have with this group of players.
Would love Klopp to come in and take us into the world cup. I feel that he could really do a great job with the crop of players we currently have.
posted on 15/7/24
Got a feeling Michael Carrick is going to be the next England manager if they insist on the 'must be English' rule.
Can't see Eddie Howe wanting the job so that leaves Potter and Carrick really. McKenna could be a shout too but seems like club football suits him perfectly.
posted on 15/7/24
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
A 16 year old for Spain had a much better tournament than Saka. Our players are massively overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That 16 year old outshone just about everyone. 1 phenom does not negate the ability of every other player on the continent you whopper
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Score Kane, Foden Bellingham Saka and Rice out of 10 for the tournament.
If you give any of them above a 6 you're delusional.
Kane and Foden would be as low as a 3/4 for me. Rice probably 5. Saka and Bellingham a generous 6.
None of our so called stars showed up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Id have Saka slightly higher but the rest a 3 or 4.
The biggest issue to me throughout was Bellinghams position and how he played it, said it after the first game and it remained right through to the final.
posted on 15/7/24
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
A 16 year old for Spain had a much better tournament than Saka. Our players are massively overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That 16 year old outshone just about everyone. 1 phenom does not negate the ability of every other player on the continent you whopper
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Score Kane, Foden Bellingham Saka and Rice out of 10 for the tournament.
If you give any of them above a 6 you're delusional.
Kane and Foden would be as low as a 3/4 for me. Rice probably 5. Saka and Bellingham a generous 6.
None of our so called stars showed up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Id have Saka slightly higher but the rest a 3 or 4.
The biggest issue to me throughout was Bellinghams position and how he played it, said it after the first game and it remained right through to the final.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was being generous but yeah I don't disagree with you. Saka probably the best of a bad bunch but even he wasn't that great.
The manager has to take a lot of the blame too. How you can have those attacking players at your disposal and look so toothless is anyone's guess.
Kane wasn't fit enough to be called up in my opinion. He's playing through pain quite evidently because he was barely running and it cost us big time.
Foden is a real mystery. Wonderful for Pep but he's always pretty pointless for England. Rashford has performed far better for the national team than he has. Stats back that up too.
posted on 15/7/24
I put it entirely on the manager, as bad as some players were, they were thrown under the bus a fair bit by him and he didn’t once react to what was the really obvious issue with Bellingham as he was banking on him continuously coming up with individual moments, which was always going to run out at some point.
Foden I thought was our best player against the Netherlands, which was the only time Southgate used him like Pep does and because he was getting the ball directly from the midfield and Saka, he was much more involved. Last night, having him man mark Rodri neutered him a fair bit again.
Kane, if you’re going to play him, he needs runners on the wings so players like a Rashford or a Sterling. That and he naturally drops into the position Bellingham mostly plays, I just don’t think the two of them work.
Like I said, the frustrating thing this time was it was so obvious right from the first game.
posted on 15/7/24
Sala showed up for parts of the last two games. Foden had a half decent first 45 in the semis. Stones and Guehi were fairly solid throughout and Shaw made a difference. But the reality is that none of our starting eleven were ever any more than functional.
Pickford can't pass, Walker is no centre back, Trippier 8s a third choice right back, Rice was anonymous or error strewn all tournament, Kane a waste of space. You can't carry so many deficiencies throughout a tournament, you have to change it, unless you are Mr Southgate that is. Awful!
posted on 15/7/24
yeah I think it's time to go after that - obviously Spain were a better side but it feels like we're always gonna go into these finals saying that because of this manager's style of play
posted on 15/7/24
It's telling that we went behind in all 4 of the knockout games. Whatever the plan was it didn't work did it?
We managed to claw our way back against 3 average opponents. Spain was a step too far though.
I have never rated him as a coach. Think he's a nice guy and that's about it. He's never going to be a winner at club or international level. You need more than good manners and a smart suit to win at the elite level. He hasn't got it.
Page 2 of 4