Nothing is going to happen to City. Their lawyers will be better than the cheap ones the Premier League have.
Even if they get found guilty, they will find some way of winning an appeal. Money talks.
I don’t believe anyone who finished 2nd to them should be awarded the title.
We need to be careful about handing titles to teams finishing second. If we do the most hilarious PL moment ever (THE slip) won't matter.
Can they be relegated a few divisions down or can the PL only effectively relegate them from the top league? I suppose the Football League would need to have a say too.
It's all very murky. IN many ways I think it'd be better for City fans that they are punished heavily otherwise, if they get let off, then the question marks will always be there over past, present and future success.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 minute ago
I don’t believe anyone who finished 2nd to them should be awarded the title.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it really depends. Did we finish second to them more than Liverpool? Or the other way around? That would be the deciding factor for me as to whether it would be fair.
Kind of depends what charges they are found guilty of, and how egregious the offences are, doesn't it? Figuring out the punishment before the verdict has, shall we say, unfortunate historical echoes.
Personally, being awarded titles retrospectively feels hollow. It's the memories of successful seasons that matter, not the number of titles, and having 2012 awarded to us doesn't take away the gut punch of the Aguero moment, nor are we going to celebrate winning the league in second place 14 years later. If City were found to have acted in a way that invalidates some of the titles they won, I think it's more fitting just to have those seasons null and void.
More important is the future. Establish stronger guardrails to prevent financial doping and opaque reporting going forward. Establish, if appropriate, that City's ownership doesn't meet the 'fit and proper' test.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
Nothing is going to happen to City. Their lawyers will be better than the cheap ones the Premier League have.
Even if they get found guilty, they will find some way of winning an appeal. Money talks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From what I've read, City don't have much leeway to appeal. However, they are threatening to take the PL to court to challenge the legality of their rules. Observers have suggested this is as much a power-play as an attempt to overturn a decision: it presents the possibility of a legal battle that could go on for years, and that would be very expensive for the PL.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
Kind of depends what charges they are found guilty of, and how egregious the offences are, doesn't it? Figuring out the punishment before the verdict has, shall we say, unfortunate historical echoes.
Personally, being awarded titles retrospectively feels hollow. It's the memories of successful seasons that matter, not the number of titles, and having 2012 awarded to us doesn't take away the gut punch of the Aguero moment, nor are we going to celebrate winning the league in second place 14 years later. If City were found to have acted in a way that invalidates some of the titles they won, I think it's more fitting just to have those seasons null and void.
More important is the future. Establish stronger guardrails to prevent financial doping and opaque reporting going forward. Establish, if appropriate, that City's ownership doesn't meet the 'fit and proper' test.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's why it is so beneficial to cheat because football can't be played retrospectively and people generally don't want to admit that 10 years was a lie. It is why I think we should cheat. I'd take 10 years of success and then a fine and someone saying it didn't happen 10 years later.
I don't get the hollow argument. Teams put in great performances and effort to effectively have a legit title win voided by cheats.
Keep the titles, they are done and dusted, but everyone will know that they are hollow wins.
Relegate them to the conference and have them work their way up.
Just for the record.
The Premier League is a breakaway league. A private members club that has spent the past 32 years cultivating a financial working relationship with both the 72-member EFL and the National League.
A private members club dominated by American owners who would sooner vote themselves down to a potentially more lucrative 18-club league format.
Kicking City out does not guarantee them relegation to anywhere in the English football pyramid.
And any club bumped down to accommodate them would quickly run to court.
A fine or they'll start pulling massive contracts/investments.
any club bumped down to accommodate them would quickly run to court.
------------------------------------------------------
On that specific point, is there any reason why teams couldn't be bumped up to accommodate them instead?
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 3 minutes ago
A fine or they'll start pulling massive contracts/investments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is sadly what it comes down to.
Any potential stiff sanction against City/Abu Dhabi will be weighed against the possible loss of a multi-billion pound weapons contract. Or worse.
It’s so unfair, yeah yeah
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
any club bumped down to accommodate them would quickly run to court.
------------------------------------------------------
On that specific point, is there any reason why teams couldn't be bumped up to accommodate them instead?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This would probably open up a bigger can of worms, as someone would end up missing out on an immensely lucrative promotion.
No titles taken away, I wouldn't celebrate of we are given it .
Point deduction for each offence carried over.
comment by Gillespie Road. (U18361)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
any club bumped down to accommodate them would quickly run to court.
------------------------------------------------------
On that specific point, is there any reason why teams couldn't be bumped up to accommodate them instead?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This would probably open up a bigger can of worms, as someone would end up missing out on an immensely lucrative promotion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If the PL relegates bottom 3 + City, then the Championship can promote 4 and relegate the usual 3.
Robb, you seem to be convinced City are guilty of all charges plus some extra ones you decided to add.
Which piece of evidence brought you to that conclusion?
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Gillespie Road. (U18361)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
any club bumped down to accommodate them would quickly run to court.
------------------------------------------------------
On that specific point, is there any reason why teams couldn't be bumped up to accommodate them instead?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This would probably open up a bigger can of worms, as someone would end up missing out on an immensely lucrative promotion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If the PL relegates bottom 3 + City, then the Championship can promote 4 and relegate the usual 3.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hypothetically, if City go down more than one division, say League One, then the Championship can relegate just two teams and accept three promoted sides, while promoting four to the PL.
I'm not saying it's within the rules, just that it's mathematically possible!
130 point deduction. They're not directly relegated but it wastes a season for them in which it's impossible to escape relegation. Then they go down to the Championship, probably come straight back up but with a much $hitter squad.
Strip all the titles but don't re-award. Relegate to the bottom of the football pyramid.
Conference has to be minimum punishment. What would be the point of the Championship, when they would come straight back up in a season. It needs to take a minimum of five seasons, that way most of their better players would have left, and they will have zero advantage.
I assume all these punishments are tongue-in-cheek, as we don't if and how many breaches City are guilty of. And they aren't all the same breaches, so some will have different punishments to others.
If it did come to taking titles away, I wouldn't want to see them 're-awarded' etc. For me that's the saddest thing if such a punishment is appropriate - the moment has gone and it just wouldn't feel the same if you were the 2nd placed team.
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 1 minute ago
Conference has to be minimum punishment. What would be the point of the Championship, when they would come straight back up in a season. It needs to take a minimum of five seasons, that way most of their better players would have left, and they will have zero advantage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Great Post sandy
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Gillespie Road. (U18361)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
any club bumped down to accommodate them would quickly run to court.
------------------------------------------------------
On that specific point, is there any reason why teams couldn't be bumped up to accommodate them instead?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This would probably open up a bigger can of worms, as someone would end up missing out on an immensely lucrative promotion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If the PL relegates bottom 3 + City, then the Championship can promote 4 and relegate the usual 3.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hypothetically, if City go down more than one division, say League One, then the Championship can relegate just two teams and accept three promoted sides, while promoting four to the PL.
I'm not saying it's within the rules, just that it's mathematically possible!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it's possible. But human beings are selfish creatures.
Every promotion/relegation between the Premier League, the EFL, and the National League is ultimately subject to a vote.
The Championship, and the EFL at large, is made up of a bunch of backstabbing club chairmen. Every single one of whom believes they are just one season away from the promised land.
Good luck trying to get any of them to vote for one extra club standing in their way.
Sign in if you want to comment
City’s punishment
Page 1 of 4
posted on 17/9/24
Nothing is going to happen to City. Their lawyers will be better than the cheap ones the Premier League have.
Even if they get found guilty, they will find some way of winning an appeal. Money talks.
posted on 17/9/24
I don’t believe anyone who finished 2nd to them should be awarded the title.
posted on 17/9/24
We need to be careful about handing titles to teams finishing second. If we do the most hilarious PL moment ever (THE slip) won't matter.
Can they be relegated a few divisions down or can the PL only effectively relegate them from the top league? I suppose the Football League would need to have a say too.
It's all very murky. IN many ways I think it'd be better for City fans that they are punished heavily otherwise, if they get let off, then the question marks will always be there over past, present and future success.
posted on 17/9/24
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 minute ago
I don’t believe anyone who finished 2nd to them should be awarded the title.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it really depends. Did we finish second to them more than Liverpool? Or the other way around? That would be the deciding factor for me as to whether it would be fair.
posted on 17/9/24
Kind of depends what charges they are found guilty of, and how egregious the offences are, doesn't it? Figuring out the punishment before the verdict has, shall we say, unfortunate historical echoes.
Personally, being awarded titles retrospectively feels hollow. It's the memories of successful seasons that matter, not the number of titles, and having 2012 awarded to us doesn't take away the gut punch of the Aguero moment, nor are we going to celebrate winning the league in second place 14 years later. If City were found to have acted in a way that invalidates some of the titles they won, I think it's more fitting just to have those seasons null and void.
More important is the future. Establish stronger guardrails to prevent financial doping and opaque reporting going forward. Establish, if appropriate, that City's ownership doesn't meet the 'fit and proper' test.
posted on 17/9/24
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
Nothing is going to happen to City. Their lawyers will be better than the cheap ones the Premier League have.
Even if they get found guilty, they will find some way of winning an appeal. Money talks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From what I've read, City don't have much leeway to appeal. However, they are threatening to take the PL to court to challenge the legality of their rules. Observers have suggested this is as much a power-play as an attempt to overturn a decision: it presents the possibility of a legal battle that could go on for years, and that would be very expensive for the PL.
posted on 17/9/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
Kind of depends what charges they are found guilty of, and how egregious the offences are, doesn't it? Figuring out the punishment before the verdict has, shall we say, unfortunate historical echoes.
Personally, being awarded titles retrospectively feels hollow. It's the memories of successful seasons that matter, not the number of titles, and having 2012 awarded to us doesn't take away the gut punch of the Aguero moment, nor are we going to celebrate winning the league in second place 14 years later. If City were found to have acted in a way that invalidates some of the titles they won, I think it's more fitting just to have those seasons null and void.
More important is the future. Establish stronger guardrails to prevent financial doping and opaque reporting going forward. Establish, if appropriate, that City's ownership doesn't meet the 'fit and proper' test.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's why it is so beneficial to cheat because football can't be played retrospectively and people generally don't want to admit that 10 years was a lie. It is why I think we should cheat. I'd take 10 years of success and then a fine and someone saying it didn't happen 10 years later.
posted on 17/9/24
I don't get the hollow argument. Teams put in great performances and effort to effectively have a legit title win voided by cheats.
posted on 17/9/24
Keep the titles, they are done and dusted, but everyone will know that they are hollow wins.
Relegate them to the conference and have them work their way up.
posted on 17/9/24
Just for the record.
The Premier League is a breakaway league. A private members club that has spent the past 32 years cultivating a financial working relationship with both the 72-member EFL and the National League.
A private members club dominated by American owners who would sooner vote themselves down to a potentially more lucrative 18-club league format.
Kicking City out does not guarantee them relegation to anywhere in the English football pyramid.
And any club bumped down to accommodate them would quickly run to court.
posted on 17/9/24
A fine or they'll start pulling massive contracts/investments.
posted on 17/9/24
any club bumped down to accommodate them would quickly run to court.
------------------------------------------------------
On that specific point, is there any reason why teams couldn't be bumped up to accommodate them instead?
posted on 17/9/24
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 3 minutes ago
A fine or they'll start pulling massive contracts/investments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is sadly what it comes down to.
Any potential stiff sanction against City/Abu Dhabi will be weighed against the possible loss of a multi-billion pound weapons contract. Or worse.
posted on 17/9/24
It’s so unfair, yeah yeah
posted on 17/9/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
any club bumped down to accommodate them would quickly run to court.
------------------------------------------------------
On that specific point, is there any reason why teams couldn't be bumped up to accommodate them instead?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This would probably open up a bigger can of worms, as someone would end up missing out on an immensely lucrative promotion.
posted on 17/9/24
No titles taken away, I wouldn't celebrate of we are given it .
Point deduction for each offence carried over.
posted on 17/9/24
comment by Gillespie Road. (U18361)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
any club bumped down to accommodate them would quickly run to court.
------------------------------------------------------
On that specific point, is there any reason why teams couldn't be bumped up to accommodate them instead?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This would probably open up a bigger can of worms, as someone would end up missing out on an immensely lucrative promotion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If the PL relegates bottom 3 + City, then the Championship can promote 4 and relegate the usual 3.
posted on 17/9/24
Robb, you seem to be convinced City are guilty of all charges plus some extra ones you decided to add.
Which piece of evidence brought you to that conclusion?
posted on 17/9/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Gillespie Road. (U18361)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
any club bumped down to accommodate them would quickly run to court.
------------------------------------------------------
On that specific point, is there any reason why teams couldn't be bumped up to accommodate them instead?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This would probably open up a bigger can of worms, as someone would end up missing out on an immensely lucrative promotion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If the PL relegates bottom 3 + City, then the Championship can promote 4 and relegate the usual 3.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hypothetically, if City go down more than one division, say League One, then the Championship can relegate just two teams and accept three promoted sides, while promoting four to the PL.
I'm not saying it's within the rules, just that it's mathematically possible!
posted on 17/9/24
130 point deduction. They're not directly relegated but it wastes a season for them in which it's impossible to escape relegation. Then they go down to the Championship, probably come straight back up but with a much $hitter squad.
posted on 17/9/24
Strip all the titles but don't re-award. Relegate to the bottom of the football pyramid.
posted on 17/9/24
Conference has to be minimum punishment. What would be the point of the Championship, when they would come straight back up in a season. It needs to take a minimum of five seasons, that way most of their better players would have left, and they will have zero advantage.
posted on 17/9/24
I assume all these punishments are tongue-in-cheek, as we don't if and how many breaches City are guilty of. And they aren't all the same breaches, so some will have different punishments to others.
If it did come to taking titles away, I wouldn't want to see them 're-awarded' etc. For me that's the saddest thing if such a punishment is appropriate - the moment has gone and it just wouldn't feel the same if you were the 2nd placed team.
posted on 17/9/24
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 1 minute ago
Conference has to be minimum punishment. What would be the point of the Championship, when they would come straight back up in a season. It needs to take a minimum of five seasons, that way most of their better players would have left, and they will have zero advantage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Great Post sandy
posted on 17/9/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Gillespie Road. (U18361)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
any club bumped down to accommodate them would quickly run to court.
------------------------------------------------------
On that specific point, is there any reason why teams couldn't be bumped up to accommodate them instead?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This would probably open up a bigger can of worms, as someone would end up missing out on an immensely lucrative promotion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If the PL relegates bottom 3 + City, then the Championship can promote 4 and relegate the usual 3.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hypothetically, if City go down more than one division, say League One, then the Championship can relegate just two teams and accept three promoted sides, while promoting four to the PL.
I'm not saying it's within the rules, just that it's mathematically possible!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it's possible. But human beings are selfish creatures.
Every promotion/relegation between the Premier League, the EFL, and the National League is ultimately subject to a vote.
The Championship, and the EFL at large, is made up of a bunch of backstabbing club chairmen. Every single one of whom believes they are just one season away from the promised land.
Good luck trying to get any of them to vote for one extra club standing in their way.
Page 1 of 4