posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
Also, why are we giving handouts to try and save a failing industry? We didn't help the coal mines when they were failing.
The reality is that times have changed. No one wants to eat turnip and straw soup anymore. Why are we giving farmers subsidies to grow 12th century food?
The vast majority of people now eat curries, pizza and chinese for dinner most nights. And when is the last time you saw a curry farm in the UK? Exactly, it is all imported from countries who produce these in demand foods.
Stop complaining that no one wants to drink your turnip juice an start diversifying to succeed in the modern world.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 5 minutes ago
NFU will cherrypick whatever study they want.
Fact is the % of exemptions claimed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No.....it's not a study, it's the Department of Food & Rural Affairs statistics.
The same department that stated it was not consulted properly on these NI changes.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else
——————————————-
It’s a mental business model. It seems to me we pay through tax the subsidies that the farmers need to operate at a loss.
Meanwhile Tesco are back to record profits đ¤ˇđťâď¸
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
Farming in the UK has been in massive decline for decades. The root cause has never been addressed. And Brexit + Covid has sent it into overdrive.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
Also, why are we giving handouts to try and save a failing industry? We didn't help the coal mines when they were failing.
The reality is that times have changed. No one wants to eat turnip and straw soup anymore. Why are we giving farmers subsidies to grow 12th century food?
The vast majority of people now eat curries, pizza and chinese for dinner most nights. And when is the last time you saw a curry farm in the UK? Exactly, it is all imported from countries who produce these in demand foods.
Stop complaining that no one wants to drink your turnip juice an start diversifying to succeed in the modern world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I grow my own turnips and make my own turnip and straw soups.
As for farmers, more farm shops is the answer.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
Rural affairs are far more diverse and complex than their urban equivalent. Rural affairs affect people you know, people you work with and your family.
For example, if I was to have an affair in the city, it would likely be anonymous and the person I am having an affair with would be unknown to myself, to my family and to my colleagues.
However, rural affairs are very different. There is a lack of choice, it may end up being my best friend's wife or a colleague. As mentioned, it may also end up being a family member. Some places are very remote and underpopulated.
So before you belittle the importance of rural affairs, think about how little choice there is in the first place. You are very likely to end up with a crappy wife from the nearest village. Rural affairs are therefore far more needed than urban ones.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
Rural affairs are far more diverse and complex than their urban equivalent. Rural affairs affect people you know, people you work with and your family.
For example, if I was to have an affair in the city, it would likely be anonymous and the person I am having an affair with would be unknown to myself, to my family and to my colleagues.
However, rural affairs are very different. There is a lack of choice, it may end up being my best friend's wife or a colleague. As mentioned, it may also end up being a family member. Some places are very remote and underpopulated.
So before you belittle the importance of rural affairs, think about how little choice there is in the first place. You are very likely to end up with a crappy wife from the nearest village. Rural affairs are therefore far more needed than urban ones.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lot more sheep though.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else
——————————————-
It’s a mental business model. It seems to me we pay through tax the subsidies that the farmers need to operate at a loss.
Meanwhile Tesco are back to record profits đ¤ˇđťâď¸
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
Farming in the UK has been in massive decline for decades. The root cause has never been addressed. And Brexit + Covid has sent it into overdrive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tories don’t like it when they are hoisted by their own petard.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
All of you talking about the problems and not offering a single solution. What happens to inheritance? It gets past down, always down. So you are losing money on it.
But what happens if it gets past up? Simply create loop in the system where you shaag your own dad and then when a daughter is born, that daughter is also your dad's wife so also your mum in a legal sense. So when you die, you pass your money up to your daughter, who is also your mum. It creates a constant loop of circulating money in the family where you gain the tax back from passing the money up instead of down.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
Rural affairs are far more diverse and complex than their urban equivalent. Rural affairs affect people you know, people you work with and your family.
For example, if I was to have an affair in the city, it would likely be anonymous and the person I am having an affair with would be unknown to myself, to my family and to my colleagues.
However, rural affairs are very different. There is a lack of choice, it may end up being my best friend's wife or a colleague. As mentioned, it may also end up being a family member. Some places are very remote and underpopulated.
So before you belittle the importance of rural affairs, think about how little choice there is in the first place. You are very likely to end up with a crappy wife from the nearest village. Rural affairs are therefore far more needed than urban ones
——————————————
Royston Vasey proofs that pudding đ
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else
——————————————-
It’s a mental business model. It seems to me we pay through tax the subsidies that the farmers need to operate at a loss.
Meanwhile Tesco are back to record profits đ¤ˇđťâď¸
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
Farming in the UK has been in massive decline for decades. The root cause has never been addressed. And Brexit + Covid has sent it into overdrive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tories don’t like it when they are hoisted by their own petard.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep.
And they'll happily support a system that benefits the obscene rich to screw them over. Like we're seeing here. True of all tory voters tbf.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 4 minutes ago
All of you talking about the problems and not offering a single solution. What happens to inheritance? It gets past down, always down. So you are losing money on it.
But what happens if it gets past up? Simply create loop in the system where you shaag your own dad and then when a daughter is born, that daughter is also your dad's wife so also your mum in a legal sense. So when you die, you pass your money up to your daughter, who is also your mum. It creates a constant loop of circulating money in the family where you gain the tax back from passing the money up instead of down.
————————————————-
This overlooks the average farmers attraction to Ewe’s, it’s shocking that given farmers have higher fertility rates than forager’s, they let lust get in the way of their reproductive duties.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
If the farming industry goes into terminal decline there will be a knock on effect to other smaller professions which rely on farms to survive, such as fly tipping and sheep rustling
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its far more complex than that.
Part of the importation is because of what we eat now and when we want to eat it. There's no seasons in the supermarket.
We also have some of the highest standards across the world. As a side, I always find it funny that there is a certain temperature above which you cannot transport livestock. The tube is routinely way above this temp, so its ok to transport humans
Like I say, its an essential service. The trains cost us £3bn plus a year. Should we scrap them? Should be pump up prices to make it break even?
If you want to find efficiencies, to make farming 'wash its face' then the way to do it is to go mass production on every level. This will destroy the countryside, rural economies, many traditional elements about this country, its landscape and its history.
That is what the IHT will lead to, much more big business farming and that is not a good thing.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else
——————————————-
It’s a mental business model. It seems to me we pay through tax the subsidies that the farmers need to operate at a loss.
Meanwhile Tesco are back to record profits đ¤ˇđťâď¸
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
Farming in the UK has been in massive decline for decades. The root cause has never been addressed. And Brexit + Covid has sent it into overdrive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tories don’t like it when they are hoisted by their own petard.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep.
And they'll happily support a system that benefits the obscene rich to screw them over. Like we're seeing here. True of all tory voters tbf.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your ignorance is staggering.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Glen Bulb (U1449)
posted 1 minute ago
If the farming industry goes into terminal decline there will be a knock on effect to other smaller professions which rely on farms to survive, such as fly tipping and sheep rustling
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also rural funeral businesses. If there are fewer farmers, then there will be fewer suicide cases which is bad business for funeral businesses. Everything is interconnected. But in a modern world, businesses diversify so if the previous farmer's kid doesn't go into the farming industry, the funeral business could just set up a facebook account and bully the farmer's son online until they kill themselves.
In modern business, you cannot just sit about and wait for things to happen. You need a proactive approach.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Glen Bulb (U1449)
posted 7 minutes ago
If the farming industry goes into terminal decline there will be a knock on effect to other smaller professions which rely on farms to survive, such as fly tipping and sheep rustling
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not to mention diafol's ovine escort service side hustle
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3c/d4/5a/3cd45aee5f5a3ef8fc23e68d51dc2e87.jpg
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 10 minutes ago
The reason why such exemption existence in the first instance is still valid in the case of family farms.
There is a lot about farming that makes it unique to other industries and therefore requires a bespoke approach to how it is taxed.
The fact the OP said "he looked into it" points to knowing little about the farming industry and the nuances of it are not understood from a cursory google search.
Agriculture has benefitted from the common agricultural policy which see huge levels of subsidies etc to support farming and make sure it is viable and supply is retained. This points to its unique nature and its sensitivities which have driven the need for the CAP.
There has been an issue in this exemption being taken advantage of and the wealthy have exploited it by buying land, letting it out to be farmed and then it is exempt from 40% of IHT. It has contributed to driving land values up. This is a practice that is rightly being targeted by the Govt.
However the collateral damage from this policy will be quite damaging especially for family farms.
There are a multitude of issues but the key concern is that the impact on family farsm will lead to the sale of such farms and agricultural becoming bigger and bigger business.
The issue with that is environmental but also quality.
If you take a high street for example, it is not healthy for such to be occupied solely by the big names. Diversity, local businesses, local goods/service, small independent shops all add to the quality but more significantly the economic health of an area.
The same applies to agriculture. The tradition of handing a farm down through the generations the passing on of knowledge and skills and the ongoing entrepreneurship that derives from these farms enriches local economies and this country as a whole. Also, and very significantly, these smaller scale farms are the ones that deliver the greater environmental gain. Many truly act as stewards of the land and this drives the regeneration of the countryside. Big businesses, as they do, drive bigger returns, economies of scale, greater profit and while this may put some cheaper food on the shelves, it is typically the most exploitative process.
The imposition of IHT will put a lot of family farms in a position where to hand over their farm to the following generation will cost them 100s of thousands of pounds.
Research by the Country & Land Business Assoc concluded that a typical family farm would have to put 159% of annual profits into paying the new inheritance tax every year for a decade and could have to sell 20% of their land.
Their analysis showed that a typical 200-acre farm owned by one person with an expected profit of £27,300 would face a £435,000 inheritance tax bill.
This will drive families out of the business, paving the way for big business to step in, and this country will be much poorer for it.
What is most ridiculous about the application of this policy (and I am not against it in part to address the loop hole the wealthy are exploiting) is that it has been imposed after Defra was not properly consulted over the change (source: Newsnight) and that the NFU were not consulted at all. Both these bodies state that the Govt's. figures on how many would be impacted are wrong.
The policy is ill-considered and its impacts are indiscriminate. It's equivalent to wanting to tax the rich more by adding 2p to the basic rate of tax.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spot on
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its far more complex than that.
Part of the importation is because of what we eat now and when we want to eat it. There's no seasons in the supermarket.
We also have some of the highest standards across the world. As a side, I always find it funny that there is a certain temperature above which you cannot transport livestock. The tube is routinely way above this temp, so its ok to transport humans
Like I say, its an essential service. The trains cost us £3bn plus a year. Should we scrap them? Should be pump up prices to make it break even?
If you want to find efficiencies, to make farming 'wash its face' then the way to do it is to go mass production on every level. This will destroy the countryside, rural economies, many traditional elements about this country, its landscape and its history.
That is what the IHT will lead to, much more big business farming and that is not a good thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it's far more complex, no one should say it's easy but one the one hand you're saying farmers are finding it hard to break even, then when it suits you say they're doing well. And you choose which depending which suits your argument against IHT.
It's not IHT that will tip UK farming towards mass production, that's happening already with exports, and come on, IHT or no IHT we all know that's the way it's headed anyway because of the economic model UK farmers already work within. To blame IHT is being disingenuous tbf.
As I've posted before many of the minority of farmers affected by this change can mitigate against it by gifting part of their land to their sons/daughters, many of whom are running the farms anyway.
Farmers will get little sympathy over this. We need taxes to sort out the public services we ALL rely on that have been stripped bare by 14 years of tory rule, whether it's water, sewage, public transport, the funding for local governments, policing, doctors, nurses, magistrates, all to line the pockets of tory donors and their bezzy mates. Farmers crying about paying tax everyone else who is eligible to pay is really not a good look. You want public support, go after the kants who are bleeding you dry, but I doubt you'll do that.
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
The big supermarkets have preached about milk being from UK dairies whilst selling it as a loss leader knowing the money is made in both processed crap or all year round fruit and veg imported from abroad. This has been a bigger threat to UK farming than IHT tax IMO.
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its far more complex than that.
Part of the importation is because of what we eat now and when we want to eat it. There's no seasons in the supermarket.
We also have some of the highest standards across the world. As a side, I always find it funny that there is a certain temperature above which you cannot transport livestock. The tube is routinely way above this temp, so its ok to transport humans
Like I say, its an essential service. The trains cost us £3bn plus a year. Should we scrap them? Should be pump up prices to make it break even?
If you want to find efficiencies, to make farming 'wash its face' then the way to do it is to go mass production on every level. This will destroy the countryside, rural economies, many traditional elements about this country, its landscape and its history.
That is what the IHT will lead to, much more big business farming and that is not a good thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it's far more complex, no one should say it's easy but one the one hand you're saying farmers are finding it hard to break even, then when it suits you say they're doing well. And you choose which depending which suits your argument against IHT.
It's not IHT that will tip UK farming towards mass production, that's happening already with exports, and come on, IHT or no IHT we all know that's the way it's headed anyway because of the economic model UK farmers already work within. To blame IHT is being disingenuous tbf.
As I've posted before many of the minority of farmers affected by this change can mitigate against it by gifting part of their land to their sons/daughters, many of whom are running the farms anyway.
Farmers will get little sympathy over this. We need taxes to sort out the public services we ALL rely on that have been stripped bare by 14 years of tory rule, whether it's water, sewage, public transport, the funding for local governments, policing, doctors, nurses, magistrates, all to line the pockets of tory donors and their bezzy mates. Farmers crying about paying tax everyone else who is eligible to pay is really not a good look. You want public support, go after the kants who are bleeding you dry, but I doubt you'll do that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Farmers have a huge public support so we can put the myth of having no sympathy to bed pretty quickly.
As for “gifting” their estate, the maximum you can do for your children is £325k, so no idea how you think they can avoid this tax at these values.
And how do you split a farmhouse and land between children to equally inherit to run a farm?
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its far more complex than that.
Part of the importation is because of what we eat now and when we want to eat it. There's no seasons in the supermarket.
We also have some of the highest standards across the world. As a side, I always find it funny that there is a certain temperature above which you cannot transport livestock. The tube is routinely way above this temp, so its ok to transport humans
Like I say, its an essential service. The trains cost us £3bn plus a year. Should we scrap them? Should be pump up prices to make it break even?
If you want to find efficiencies, to make farming 'wash its face' then the way to do it is to go mass production on every level. This will destroy the countryside, rural economies, many traditional elements about this country, its landscape and its history.
That is what the IHT will lead to, much more big business farming and that is not a good thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it's far more complex, no one should say it's easy but one the one hand you're saying farmers are finding it hard to break even, then when it suits you say they're doing well. And you choose which depending which suits your argument against IHT.
It's not IHT that will tip UK farming towards mass production, that's happening already with exports, and come on, IHT or no IHT we all know that's the way it's headed anyway because of the economic model UK farmers already work within. To blame IHT is being disingenuous tbf.
As I've posted before many of the minority of farmers affected by this change can mitigate against it by gifting part of their land to their sons/daughters, many of whom are running the farms anyway.
Farmers will get little sympathy over this. We need taxes to sort out the public services we ALL rely on that have been stripped bare by 14 years of tory rule, whether it's water, sewage, public transport, the funding for local governments, policing, doctors, nurses, magistrates, all to line the pockets of tory donors and their bezzy mates. Farmers crying about paying tax everyone else who is eligible to pay is really not a good look. You want public support, go after the kants who are bleeding you dry, but I doubt you'll do that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I havent said farmers are finding it hard to break even. It is a difficult industry but that is not my main point.
If you look at the examples I quoted from research, farms do not make huge profits. What are very valuable and unavoidable expensive assets (a combine harvester costs £0.5m, substantial farm tractors cost +£150k) do not produce much return on investment but one cannot operate without them. Similarly land. 200 acres is a typical family farm size and that's £2 - £2.5m
It is a sector that requires huge investment to secure a fairly modest return.
To hand it on to your son, if that is going to wipe out profits for a period of time, then why would anyone make that choice.
You completely miss the point about nuances of agriculture and the tax regime.
If i die and my house goes to my kids then they'll sell it, be much better off and pay tax on it.
If a farmer dies and hands the business to his son, then that tax bill threatens the very viability of the farm, requiring them to sell part (no easy at all) of the whole to pay the tax.
To say we are all subject to the same tax rules is to completely misunderstand the intricacies of this situation.
As said above, if son has no intention to farm and will sell, then tax him. It doesn't impact on viability, just what he receives for the business. That is fair.
What isn't fair is to impose this tax in situations where farms handed down through the generations is not about pocketing valuable assets, its about allowing farming practices and traditions, which are a big part of the rural economy, and this country's history, to continue, and not forcing sales which will only have harmful impacts
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its far more complex than that.
Part of the importation is because of what we eat now and when we want to eat it. There's no seasons in the supermarket.
We also have some of the highest standards across the world. As a side, I always find it funny that there is a certain temperature above which you cannot transport livestock. The tube is routinely way above this temp, so its ok to transport humans
Like I say, its an essential service. The trains cost us £3bn plus a year. Should we scrap them? Should be pump up prices to make it break even?
If you want to find efficiencies, to make farming 'wash its face' then the way to do it is to go mass production on every level. This will destroy the countryside, rural economies, many traditional elements about this country, its landscape and its history.
That is what the IHT will lead to, much more big business farming and that is not a good thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it's far more complex, no one should say it's easy but one the one hand you're saying farmers are finding it hard to break even, then when it suits you say they're doing well. And you choose which depending which suits your argument against IHT.
It's not IHT that will tip UK farming towards mass production, that's happening already with exports, and come on, IHT or no IHT we all know that's the way it's headed anyway because of the economic model UK farmers already work within. To blame IHT is being disingenuous tbf.
As I've posted before many of the minority of farmers affected by this change can mitigate against it by gifting part of their land to their sons/daughters, many of whom are running the farms anyway.
Farmers will get little sympathy over this. We need taxes to sort out the public services we ALL rely on that have been stripped bare by 14 years of tory rule, whether it's water, sewage, public transport, the funding for local governments, policing, doctors, nurses, magistrates, all to line the pockets of tory donors and their bezzy mates. Farmers crying about paying tax everyone else who is eligible to pay is really not a good look. You want public support, go after the kants who are bleeding you dry, but I doubt you'll do that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Farmers have a huge public support so we can put the myth of having no sympathy to bed pretty quickly.
As for “gifting” their estate, the maximum you can do for your children is £325k, so no idea how you think they can avoid this tax at these values.
And how do you split a farmhouse and land between children to equally inherit to run a farm?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I never said no public support, I said little public support. And that's certainly true over this IHT issue. They do get far more support when it comes to their exploitation by big businesses and many of the wider constraints they work within. So why not focus on that?
I never said avoid either, I said mitigate. And as for the question of how they do it, I'm not an accountant but how about in a similar way to any other business owner with assets does it.
Look if UK farmers can't be ar5d to get together and actually tackle the real issues affecting UK agriculture which has already been covered then that's on them no one else. And to complain instead about paying a tax others have to pay, and a small minority of famers will pay on far more favourable terms is imo more about trying to get out of paying taxes than saving the farming industry.
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o
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British farmers
Page 3 of 11
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posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
Also, why are we giving handouts to try and save a failing industry? We didn't help the coal mines when they were failing.
The reality is that times have changed. No one wants to eat turnip and straw soup anymore. Why are we giving farmers subsidies to grow 12th century food?
The vast majority of people now eat curries, pizza and chinese for dinner most nights. And when is the last time you saw a curry farm in the UK? Exactly, it is all imported from countries who produce these in demand foods.
Stop complaining that no one wants to drink your turnip juice an start diversifying to succeed in the modern world.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 5 minutes ago
NFU will cherrypick whatever study they want.
Fact is the % of exemptions claimed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No.....it's not a study, it's the Department of Food & Rural Affairs statistics.
The same department that stated it was not consulted properly on these NI changes.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else
——————————————-
It’s a mental business model. It seems to me we pay through tax the subsidies that the farmers need to operate at a loss.
Meanwhile Tesco are back to record profits đ¤ˇđťâď¸
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
Farming in the UK has been in massive decline for decades. The root cause has never been addressed. And Brexit + Covid has sent it into overdrive.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
Also, why are we giving handouts to try and save a failing industry? We didn't help the coal mines when they were failing.
The reality is that times have changed. No one wants to eat turnip and straw soup anymore. Why are we giving farmers subsidies to grow 12th century food?
The vast majority of people now eat curries, pizza and chinese for dinner most nights. And when is the last time you saw a curry farm in the UK? Exactly, it is all imported from countries who produce these in demand foods.
Stop complaining that no one wants to drink your turnip juice an start diversifying to succeed in the modern world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I grow my own turnips and make my own turnip and straw soups.
As for farmers, more farm shops is the answer.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
Rural affairs are far more diverse and complex than their urban equivalent. Rural affairs affect people you know, people you work with and your family.
For example, if I was to have an affair in the city, it would likely be anonymous and the person I am having an affair with would be unknown to myself, to my family and to my colleagues.
However, rural affairs are very different. There is a lack of choice, it may end up being my best friend's wife or a colleague. As mentioned, it may also end up being a family member. Some places are very remote and underpopulated.
So before you belittle the importance of rural affairs, think about how little choice there is in the first place. You are very likely to end up with a crappy wife from the nearest village. Rural affairs are therefore far more needed than urban ones.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
Rural affairs are far more diverse and complex than their urban equivalent. Rural affairs affect people you know, people you work with and your family.
For example, if I was to have an affair in the city, it would likely be anonymous and the person I am having an affair with would be unknown to myself, to my family and to my colleagues.
However, rural affairs are very different. There is a lack of choice, it may end up being my best friend's wife or a colleague. As mentioned, it may also end up being a family member. Some places are very remote and underpopulated.
So before you belittle the importance of rural affairs, think about how little choice there is in the first place. You are very likely to end up with a crappy wife from the nearest village. Rural affairs are therefore far more needed than urban ones.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lot more sheep though.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else
——————————————-
It’s a mental business model. It seems to me we pay through tax the subsidies that the farmers need to operate at a loss.
Meanwhile Tesco are back to record profits đ¤ˇđťâď¸
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
Farming in the UK has been in massive decline for decades. The root cause has never been addressed. And Brexit + Covid has sent it into overdrive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tories don’t like it when they are hoisted by their own petard.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
All of you talking about the problems and not offering a single solution. What happens to inheritance? It gets past down, always down. So you are losing money on it.
But what happens if it gets past up? Simply create loop in the system where you shaag your own dad and then when a daughter is born, that daughter is also your dad's wife so also your mum in a legal sense. So when you die, you pass your money up to your daughter, who is also your mum. It creates a constant loop of circulating money in the family where you gain the tax back from passing the money up instead of down.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
Rural affairs are far more diverse and complex than their urban equivalent. Rural affairs affect people you know, people you work with and your family.
For example, if I was to have an affair in the city, it would likely be anonymous and the person I am having an affair with would be unknown to myself, to my family and to my colleagues.
However, rural affairs are very different. There is a lack of choice, it may end up being my best friend's wife or a colleague. As mentioned, it may also end up being a family member. Some places are very remote and underpopulated.
So before you belittle the importance of rural affairs, think about how little choice there is in the first place. You are very likely to end up with a crappy wife from the nearest village. Rural affairs are therefore far more needed than urban ones
——————————————
Royston Vasey proofs that pudding đ
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else
——————————————-
It’s a mental business model. It seems to me we pay through tax the subsidies that the farmers need to operate at a loss.
Meanwhile Tesco are back to record profits đ¤ˇđťâď¸
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
Farming in the UK has been in massive decline for decades. The root cause has never been addressed. And Brexit + Covid has sent it into overdrive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tories don’t like it when they are hoisted by their own petard.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep.
And they'll happily support a system that benefits the obscene rich to screw them over. Like we're seeing here. True of all tory voters tbf.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 4 minutes ago
All of you talking about the problems and not offering a single solution. What happens to inheritance? It gets past down, always down. So you are losing money on it.
But what happens if it gets past up? Simply create loop in the system where you shaag your own dad and then when a daughter is born, that daughter is also your dad's wife so also your mum in a legal sense. So when you die, you pass your money up to your daughter, who is also your mum. It creates a constant loop of circulating money in the family where you gain the tax back from passing the money up instead of down.
————————————————-
This overlooks the average farmers attraction to Ewe’s, it’s shocking that given farmers have higher fertility rates than forager’s, they let lust get in the way of their reproductive duties.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
If the farming industry goes into terminal decline there will be a knock on effect to other smaller professions which rely on farms to survive, such as fly tipping and sheep rustling
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its far more complex than that.
Part of the importation is because of what we eat now and when we want to eat it. There's no seasons in the supermarket.
We also have some of the highest standards across the world. As a side, I always find it funny that there is a certain temperature above which you cannot transport livestock. The tube is routinely way above this temp, so its ok to transport humans
Like I say, its an essential service. The trains cost us £3bn plus a year. Should we scrap them? Should be pump up prices to make it break even?
If you want to find efficiencies, to make farming 'wash its face' then the way to do it is to go mass production on every level. This will destroy the countryside, rural economies, many traditional elements about this country, its landscape and its history.
That is what the IHT will lead to, much more big business farming and that is not a good thing.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else
——————————————-
It’s a mental business model. It seems to me we pay through tax the subsidies that the farmers need to operate at a loss.
Meanwhile Tesco are back to record profits đ¤ˇđťâď¸
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
Farming in the UK has been in massive decline for decades. The root cause has never been addressed. And Brexit + Covid has sent it into overdrive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tories don’t like it when they are hoisted by their own petard.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep.
And they'll happily support a system that benefits the obscene rich to screw them over. Like we're seeing here. True of all tory voters tbf.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your ignorance is staggering.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Glen Bulb (U1449)
posted 1 minute ago
If the farming industry goes into terminal decline there will be a knock on effect to other smaller professions which rely on farms to survive, such as fly tipping and sheep rustling
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also rural funeral businesses. If there are fewer farmers, then there will be fewer suicide cases which is bad business for funeral businesses. Everything is interconnected. But in a modern world, businesses diversify so if the previous farmer's kid doesn't go into the farming industry, the funeral business could just set up a facebook account and bully the farmer's son online until they kill themselves.
In modern business, you cannot just sit about and wait for things to happen. You need a proactive approach.
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
comment by Glen Bulb (U1449)
posted 7 minutes ago
If the farming industry goes into terminal decline there will be a knock on effect to other smaller professions which rely on farms to survive, such as fly tipping and sheep rustling
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not to mention diafol's ovine escort service side hustle
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3c/d4/5a/3cd45aee5f5a3ef8fc23e68d51dc2e87.jpg
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 10 minutes ago
The reason why such exemption existence in the first instance is still valid in the case of family farms.
There is a lot about farming that makes it unique to other industries and therefore requires a bespoke approach to how it is taxed.
The fact the OP said "he looked into it" points to knowing little about the farming industry and the nuances of it are not understood from a cursory google search.
Agriculture has benefitted from the common agricultural policy which see huge levels of subsidies etc to support farming and make sure it is viable and supply is retained. This points to its unique nature and its sensitivities which have driven the need for the CAP.
There has been an issue in this exemption being taken advantage of and the wealthy have exploited it by buying land, letting it out to be farmed and then it is exempt from 40% of IHT. It has contributed to driving land values up. This is a practice that is rightly being targeted by the Govt.
However the collateral damage from this policy will be quite damaging especially for family farms.
There are a multitude of issues but the key concern is that the impact on family farsm will lead to the sale of such farms and agricultural becoming bigger and bigger business.
The issue with that is environmental but also quality.
If you take a high street for example, it is not healthy for such to be occupied solely by the big names. Diversity, local businesses, local goods/service, small independent shops all add to the quality but more significantly the economic health of an area.
The same applies to agriculture. The tradition of handing a farm down through the generations the passing on of knowledge and skills and the ongoing entrepreneurship that derives from these farms enriches local economies and this country as a whole. Also, and very significantly, these smaller scale farms are the ones that deliver the greater environmental gain. Many truly act as stewards of the land and this drives the regeneration of the countryside. Big businesses, as they do, drive bigger returns, economies of scale, greater profit and while this may put some cheaper food on the shelves, it is typically the most exploitative process.
The imposition of IHT will put a lot of family farms in a position where to hand over their farm to the following generation will cost them 100s of thousands of pounds.
Research by the Country & Land Business Assoc concluded that a typical family farm would have to put 159% of annual profits into paying the new inheritance tax every year for a decade and could have to sell 20% of their land.
Their analysis showed that a typical 200-acre farm owned by one person with an expected profit of £27,300 would face a £435,000 inheritance tax bill.
This will drive families out of the business, paving the way for big business to step in, and this country will be much poorer for it.
What is most ridiculous about the application of this policy (and I am not against it in part to address the loop hole the wealthy are exploiting) is that it has been imposed after Defra was not properly consulted over the change (source: Newsnight) and that the NFU were not consulted at all. Both these bodies state that the Govt's. figures on how many would be impacted are wrong.
The policy is ill-considered and its impacts are indiscriminate. It's equivalent to wanting to tax the rich more by adding 2p to the basic rate of tax.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spot on
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its far more complex than that.
Part of the importation is because of what we eat now and when we want to eat it. There's no seasons in the supermarket.
We also have some of the highest standards across the world. As a side, I always find it funny that there is a certain temperature above which you cannot transport livestock. The tube is routinely way above this temp, so its ok to transport humans
Like I say, its an essential service. The trains cost us £3bn plus a year. Should we scrap them? Should be pump up prices to make it break even?
If you want to find efficiencies, to make farming 'wash its face' then the way to do it is to go mass production on every level. This will destroy the countryside, rural economies, many traditional elements about this country, its landscape and its history.
That is what the IHT will lead to, much more big business farming and that is not a good thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it's far more complex, no one should say it's easy but one the one hand you're saying farmers are finding it hard to break even, then when it suits you say they're doing well. And you choose which depending which suits your argument against IHT.
It's not IHT that will tip UK farming towards mass production, that's happening already with exports, and come on, IHT or no IHT we all know that's the way it's headed anyway because of the economic model UK farmers already work within. To blame IHT is being disingenuous tbf.
As I've posted before many of the minority of farmers affected by this change can mitigate against it by gifting part of their land to their sons/daughters, many of whom are running the farms anyway.
Farmers will get little sympathy over this. We need taxes to sort out the public services we ALL rely on that have been stripped bare by 14 years of tory rule, whether it's water, sewage, public transport, the funding for local governments, policing, doctors, nurses, magistrates, all to line the pockets of tory donors and their bezzy mates. Farmers crying about paying tax everyone else who is eligible to pay is really not a good look. You want public support, go after the kants who are bleeding you dry, but I doubt you'll do that.
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
The big supermarkets have preached about milk being from UK dairies whilst selling it as a loss leader knowing the money is made in both processed crap or all year round fruit and veg imported from abroad. This has been a bigger threat to UK farming than IHT tax IMO.
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its far more complex than that.
Part of the importation is because of what we eat now and when we want to eat it. There's no seasons in the supermarket.
We also have some of the highest standards across the world. As a side, I always find it funny that there is a certain temperature above which you cannot transport livestock. The tube is routinely way above this temp, so its ok to transport humans
Like I say, its an essential service. The trains cost us £3bn plus a year. Should we scrap them? Should be pump up prices to make it break even?
If you want to find efficiencies, to make farming 'wash its face' then the way to do it is to go mass production on every level. This will destroy the countryside, rural economies, many traditional elements about this country, its landscape and its history.
That is what the IHT will lead to, much more big business farming and that is not a good thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it's far more complex, no one should say it's easy but one the one hand you're saying farmers are finding it hard to break even, then when it suits you say they're doing well. And you choose which depending which suits your argument against IHT.
It's not IHT that will tip UK farming towards mass production, that's happening already with exports, and come on, IHT or no IHT we all know that's the way it's headed anyway because of the economic model UK farmers already work within. To blame IHT is being disingenuous tbf.
As I've posted before many of the minority of farmers affected by this change can mitigate against it by gifting part of their land to their sons/daughters, many of whom are running the farms anyway.
Farmers will get little sympathy over this. We need taxes to sort out the public services we ALL rely on that have been stripped bare by 14 years of tory rule, whether it's water, sewage, public transport, the funding for local governments, policing, doctors, nurses, magistrates, all to line the pockets of tory donors and their bezzy mates. Farmers crying about paying tax everyone else who is eligible to pay is really not a good look. You want public support, go after the kants who are bleeding you dry, but I doubt you'll do that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Farmers have a huge public support so we can put the myth of having no sympathy to bed pretty quickly.
As for “gifting” their estate, the maximum you can do for your children is £325k, so no idea how you think they can avoid this tax at these values.
And how do you split a farmhouse and land between children to equally inherit to run a farm?
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its far more complex than that.
Part of the importation is because of what we eat now and when we want to eat it. There's no seasons in the supermarket.
We also have some of the highest standards across the world. As a side, I always find it funny that there is a certain temperature above which you cannot transport livestock. The tube is routinely way above this temp, so its ok to transport humans
Like I say, its an essential service. The trains cost us £3bn plus a year. Should we scrap them? Should be pump up prices to make it break even?
If you want to find efficiencies, to make farming 'wash its face' then the way to do it is to go mass production on every level. This will destroy the countryside, rural economies, many traditional elements about this country, its landscape and its history.
That is what the IHT will lead to, much more big business farming and that is not a good thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it's far more complex, no one should say it's easy but one the one hand you're saying farmers are finding it hard to break even, then when it suits you say they're doing well. And you choose which depending which suits your argument against IHT.
It's not IHT that will tip UK farming towards mass production, that's happening already with exports, and come on, IHT or no IHT we all know that's the way it's headed anyway because of the economic model UK farmers already work within. To blame IHT is being disingenuous tbf.
As I've posted before many of the minority of farmers affected by this change can mitigate against it by gifting part of their land to their sons/daughters, many of whom are running the farms anyway.
Farmers will get little sympathy over this. We need taxes to sort out the public services we ALL rely on that have been stripped bare by 14 years of tory rule, whether it's water, sewage, public transport, the funding for local governments, policing, doctors, nurses, magistrates, all to line the pockets of tory donors and their bezzy mates. Farmers crying about paying tax everyone else who is eligible to pay is really not a good look. You want public support, go after the kants who are bleeding you dry, but I doubt you'll do that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I havent said farmers are finding it hard to break even. It is a difficult industry but that is not my main point.
If you look at the examples I quoted from research, farms do not make huge profits. What are very valuable and unavoidable expensive assets (a combine harvester costs £0.5m, substantial farm tractors cost +£150k) do not produce much return on investment but one cannot operate without them. Similarly land. 200 acres is a typical family farm size and that's £2 - £2.5m
It is a sector that requires huge investment to secure a fairly modest return.
To hand it on to your son, if that is going to wipe out profits for a period of time, then why would anyone make that choice.
You completely miss the point about nuances of agriculture and the tax regime.
If i die and my house goes to my kids then they'll sell it, be much better off and pay tax on it.
If a farmer dies and hands the business to his son, then that tax bill threatens the very viability of the farm, requiring them to sell part (no easy at all) of the whole to pay the tax.
To say we are all subject to the same tax rules is to completely misunderstand the intricacies of this situation.
As said above, if son has no intention to farm and will sell, then tax him. It doesn't impact on viability, just what he receives for the business. That is fair.
What isn't fair is to impose this tax in situations where farms handed down through the generations is not about pocketing valuable assets, its about allowing farming practices and traditions, which are a big part of the rural economy, and this country's history, to continue, and not forcing sales which will only have harmful impacts
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
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Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
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No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
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I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
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Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
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Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
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Its far more complex than that.
Part of the importation is because of what we eat now and when we want to eat it. There's no seasons in the supermarket.
We also have some of the highest standards across the world. As a side, I always find it funny that there is a certain temperature above which you cannot transport livestock. The tube is routinely way above this temp, so its ok to transport humans
Like I say, its an essential service. The trains cost us £3bn plus a year. Should we scrap them? Should be pump up prices to make it break even?
If you want to find efficiencies, to make farming 'wash its face' then the way to do it is to go mass production on every level. This will destroy the countryside, rural economies, many traditional elements about this country, its landscape and its history.
That is what the IHT will lead to, much more big business farming and that is not a good thing.
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Of course it's far more complex, no one should say it's easy but one the one hand you're saying farmers are finding it hard to break even, then when it suits you say they're doing well. And you choose which depending which suits your argument against IHT.
It's not IHT that will tip UK farming towards mass production, that's happening already with exports, and come on, IHT or no IHT we all know that's the way it's headed anyway because of the economic model UK farmers already work within. To blame IHT is being disingenuous tbf.
As I've posted before many of the minority of farmers affected by this change can mitigate against it by gifting part of their land to their sons/daughters, many of whom are running the farms anyway.
Farmers will get little sympathy over this. We need taxes to sort out the public services we ALL rely on that have been stripped bare by 14 years of tory rule, whether it's water, sewage, public transport, the funding for local governments, policing, doctors, nurses, magistrates, all to line the pockets of tory donors and their bezzy mates. Farmers crying about paying tax everyone else who is eligible to pay is really not a good look. You want public support, go after the kants who are bleeding you dry, but I doubt you'll do that.
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Farmers have a huge public support so we can put the myth of having no sympathy to bed pretty quickly.
As for “gifting” their estate, the maximum you can do for your children is £325k, so no idea how you think they can avoid this tax at these values.
And how do you split a farmhouse and land between children to equally inherit to run a farm?
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I never said no public support, I said little public support. And that's certainly true over this IHT issue. They do get far more support when it comes to their exploitation by big businesses and many of the wider constraints they work within. So why not focus on that?
I never said avoid either, I said mitigate. And as for the question of how they do it, I'm not an accountant but how about in a similar way to any other business owner with assets does it.
Look if UK farmers can't be ar5d to get together and actually tackle the real issues affecting UK agriculture which has already been covered then that's on them no one else. And to complain instead about paying a tax others have to pay, and a small minority of famers will pay on far more favourable terms is imo more about trying to get out of paying taxes than saving the farming industry.
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o
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