Farmers have a huge public support so we can put the myth of having no sympathy to bed pretty quickly.
------------------------------------------------------------------
From everything i've read and seen, i don't think that statement is true tbh...i think it's the opposite.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So according to that article there's 462 farms currently with a value above £1m and 345 of those are below £2.5m, so a chunk will be exempt anyway assuming the current owner is married.
So all the uproar is over say 200-250 farms being taxed?
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 50 seconds ago
Farmers have a huge public support so we can put the myth of having no sympathy to bed pretty quickly.
------------------------------------------------------------------
From everything i've read and seen, i don't think that statement is true tbh...i think it's the opposite.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Their support from those in rural areas and part of the rural economy will be absolute.
Those are the ones in the knowledge, who are in the industry or impacted by it
They may still be the minority overall but that's a function of a lack of understanding or interest from the wider population.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its far more complex than that.
Part of the importation is because of what we eat now and when we want to eat it. There's no seasons in the supermarket.
We also have some of the highest standards across the world. As a side, I always find it funny that there is a certain temperature above which you cannot transport livestock. The tube is routinely way above this temp, so its ok to transport humans
Like I say, its an essential service. The trains cost us £3bn plus a year. Should we scrap them? Should be pump up prices to make it break even?
If you want to find efficiencies, to make farming 'wash its face' then the way to do it is to go mass production on every level. This will destroy the countryside, rural economies, many traditional elements about this country, its landscape and its history.
That is what the IHT will lead to, much more big business farming and that is not a good thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it's far more complex, no one should say it's easy but one the one hand you're saying farmers are finding it hard to break even, then when it suits you say they're doing well. And you choose which depending which suits your argument against IHT.
It's not IHT that will tip UK farming towards mass production, that's happening already with exports, and come on, IHT or no IHT we all know that's the way it's headed anyway because of the economic model UK farmers already work within. To blame IHT is being disingenuous tbf.
As I've posted before many of the minority of farmers affected by this change can mitigate against it by gifting part of their land to their sons/daughters, many of whom are running the farms anyway.
Farmers will get little sympathy over this. We need taxes to sort out the public services we ALL rely on that have been stripped bare by 14 years of tory rule, whether it's water, sewage, public transport, the funding for local governments, policing, doctors, nurses, magistrates, all to line the pockets of tory donors and their bezzy mates. Farmers crying about paying tax everyone else who is eligible to pay is really not a good look. You want public support, go after the kants who are bleeding you dry, but I doubt you'll do that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I havent said farmers are finding it hard to break even. It is a difficult industry but that is not my main point.
If you look at the examples I quoted from research, farms do not make huge profits. What are very valuable and unavoidable expensive assets (a combine harvester costs £0.5m, substantial farm tractors cost +£150k) do not produce much return on investment but one cannot operate without them. Similarly land. 200 acres is a typical family farm size and that's £2 - £2.5m
It is a sector that requires huge investment to secure a fairly modest return.
To hand it on to your son, if that is going to wipe out profits for a period of time, then why would anyone make that choice.
You completely miss the point about nuances of agriculture and the tax regime.
If i die and my house goes to my kids then they'll sell it, be much better off and pay tax on it.
If a farmer dies and hands the business to his son, then that tax bill threatens the very viability of the farm, requiring them to sell part (no easy at all) of the whole to pay the tax.
To say we are all subject to the same tax rules is to completely misunderstand the intricacies of this situation.
As said above, if son has no intention to farm and will sell, then tax him. It doesn't impact on viability, just what he receives for the business. That is fair.
What isn't fair is to impose this tax in situations where farms handed down through the generations is not about pocketing valuable assets, its about allowing farming practices and traditions, which are a big part of the rural economy, and this country's history, to continue, and not forcing sales which will only have harmful impacts
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate I don't want you to think I don't care about what's happening to UK farming. I just disagree with you on this issue around IHT.
I do fully appreciate all the complexities that make farming in the UK far more problematic. Machinery, labour costs, transportation, production efficiencies around weather, soil conditions etc, market demands, subsidies abroad, economies of scale, all are often stacked against UK farming.
Finding solutions to this for me is what's needed, but I have to admit I don't think the long term outlook looks great and maybe we're heading towards family owned farming in the UK becoming history. I hope it dorsn't happen, but if it does it will be a victim of so-called "market forces" which is used to destroy most British institutions, not IHT.
I don't know if you're a farmer yourself, but I genuinely wish you well either way.
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 2 minutes ago
Should add per year
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But its about the impact of this IHT.
If it means that a significant number of these farms are sold off, then impacts of this will be very harmful to the environment and the rural economy, and such changes and harm will be irreversible.
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So according to that article there's 462 farms currently with a value above £1m and 345 of those are below £2.5m, so a chunk will be exempt anyway assuming the current owner is married.
So all the uproar is over say 200-250 farms being taxed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would have been just over a hundred farms in 2022 from HMRC’s own figures.
And that’s farms which would have *anything at all* to pay. Obviously a number of that hundred will only be paying (the already reduced rate of) inheritance tax on a few tens of thousands.
All it needs for 99% of the farming community to avoid the charge, is to not be so tight and pay someone to sort-out their tax affairs.
Gift the farm to their children before they get old, live for another seven years, job done.
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its far more complex than that.
Part of the importation is because of what we eat now and when we want to eat it. There's no seasons in the supermarket.
We also have some of the highest standards across the world. As a side, I always find it funny that there is a certain temperature above which you cannot transport livestock. The tube is routinely way above this temp, so its ok to transport humans
Like I say, its an essential service. The trains cost us £3bn plus a year. Should we scrap them? Should be pump up prices to make it break even?
If you want to find efficiencies, to make farming 'wash its face' then the way to do it is to go mass production on every level. This will destroy the countryside, rural economies, many traditional elements about this country, its landscape and its history.
That is what the IHT will lead to, much more big business farming and that is not a good thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it's far more complex, no one should say it's easy but one the one hand you're saying farmers are finding it hard to break even, then when it suits you say they're doing well. And you choose which depending which suits your argument against IHT.
It's not IHT that will tip UK farming towards mass production, that's happening already with exports, and come on, IHT or no IHT we all know that's the way it's headed anyway because of the economic model UK farmers already work within. To blame IHT is being disingenuous tbf.
As I've posted before many of the minority of farmers affected by this change can mitigate against it by gifting part of their land to their sons/daughters, many of whom are running the farms anyway.
Farmers will get little sympathy over this. We need taxes to sort out the public services we ALL rely on that have been stripped bare by 14 years of tory rule, whether it's water, sewage, public transport, the funding for local governments, policing, doctors, nurses, magistrates, all to line the pockets of tory donors and their bezzy mates. Farmers crying about paying tax everyone else who is eligible to pay is really not a good look. You want public support, go after the kants who are bleeding you dry, but I doubt you'll do that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I havent said farmers are finding it hard to break even. It is a difficult industry but that is not my main point.
If you look at the examples I quoted from research, farms do not make huge profits. What are very valuable and unavoidable expensive assets (a combine harvester costs £0.5m, substantial farm tractors cost +£150k) do not produce much return on investment but one cannot operate without them. Similarly land. 200 acres is a typical family farm size and that's £2 - £2.5m
It is a sector that requires huge investment to secure a fairly modest return.
To hand it on to your son, if that is going to wipe out profits for a period of time, then why would anyone make that choice.
You completely miss the point about nuances of agriculture and the tax regime.
If i die and my house goes to my kids then they'll sell it, be much better off and pay tax on it.
If a farmer dies and hands the business to his son, then that tax bill threatens the very viability of the farm, requiring them to sell part (no easy at all) of the whole to pay the tax.
To say we are all subject to the same tax rules is to completely misunderstand the intricacies of this situation.
As said above, if son has no intention to farm and will sell, then tax him. It doesn't impact on viability, just what he receives for the business. That is fair.
What isn't fair is to impose this tax in situations where farms handed down through the generations is not about pocketing valuable assets, its about allowing farming practices and traditions, which are a big part of the rural economy, and this country's history, to continue, and not forcing sales which will only have harmful impacts
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate I don't want you to think I don't care about what's happening to UK farming. I just disagree with you on this issue around IHT.
I do fully appreciate all the complexities that make farming in the UK far more problematic. Machinery, labour costs, transportation, production efficiencies around weather, soil conditions etc, market demands, subsidies abroad, economies of scale, all are often stacked against UK farming.
Finding solutions to this for me is what's needed, but I have to admit I don't think the long term outlook looks great and maybe we're heading towards family owned farming in the UK becoming history. I hope it dorsn't happen, but if it does it will be a victim of so-called "market forces" which is used to destroy most British institutions, not IHT.
I don't know if you're a farmer yourself, but I genuinely wish you well either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Family farming becoming history" is absolutely what we should be looking to avoid and the reasons are overwhelming - economic, environmental, societal, tradition.
The IHT situation will speed this up and that is why it is bad, that is why people are protesting.
Many on here have some perception that just because people are sitting on assets worth millions that they are wealthy.
They only become wealthy if they ever realise that value (which a family farm handed down does not) but I am absolutely down with taxation when that wealth is realised (sold)
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, R... (U17054)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So according to that article there's 462 farms currently with a value above £1m and 345 of those are below £2.5m, so a chunk will be exempt anyway assuming the current owner is married.
So all the uproar is over say 200-250 farms being taxed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would have been just over a hundred farms in 2022 from HMRC’s own figures.
And that’s farms which would have *anything at all* to pay. Obviously a number of that hundred will only be paying (the already reduced rate of) inheritance tax on a few tens of thousands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s the main issue. Nobody can seem to agree the baseline number, never mind the major obstacle that farms will have to sell land which is theirs and our livelihoods as they don’t have that kind of cash in the bank so to speak.
Makes us head towards more food imports at a time when trade barriers are increasing and tariffs abound. Then there’s the destruction of the countryside.
And all for what? A few low hundred million? The “cost” of this will be much further down the line.
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 4 seconds ago
All it needs for 99% of the farming community to avoid the charge, is to not be so tight and pay someone to sort-out their tax affairs.
Gift the farm to their children before they get old, live for another seven years, job done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not as simple as that, in fact its hugely complicated if the gifter is continuing as the farmer/owner.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 4 seconds ago
All it needs for 99% of the farming community to avoid the charge, is to not be so tight and pay someone to sort-out their tax affairs.
Gift the farm to their children before they get old, live for another seven years, job done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not as simple as that, in fact its hugely complicated if the gifter is continuing as the farmer/owner.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
£325k is the lifetime allowance. £500k from a married couple. Between all children as a total.
And that calculation is already in the governments workings.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, R... (U17054)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So according to that article there's 462 farms currently with a value above £1m and 345 of those are below £2.5m, so a chunk will be exempt anyway assuming the current owner is married.
So all the uproar is over say 200-250 farms being taxed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would have been just over a hundred farms in 2022 from HMRC’s own figures.
And that’s farms which would have *anything at all* to pay. Obviously a number of that hundred will only be paying (the already reduced rate of) inheritance tax on a few tens of thousands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s the main issue. Nobody can seem to agree the baseline number, never mind the major obstacle that farms will have to sell land which is theirs and our livelihoods as they don’t have that kind of cash in the bank so to speak.
Makes us head towards more food imports at a time when trade barriers are increasing and tariffs abound. Then there’s the destruction of the countryside.
And all for what? A few low hundred million? The “cost” of this will be much further down the line.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your last line sums it up.
It's the long term irreversible impact on the sector and the environment and the rural economy that will be very damaging.
As said before, people arent protesting because they're being hit in the pocket. And there is exploitation of the loop hole that needs targeting.
This approach really does lack fairness, foresight and a proper impact assessment, which is now evident from the protests.
I've been getting behind farmers since I was a teenager. And the baaastards never pull over. So why should I support them now?
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 22 seconds ago
I've been getting behind farmers since I was a teenager. And the baaastards never pull over. So why should I support them now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope next time they shiiit spread all over your car and it’s an open top
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 22 seconds ago
I've been getting behind farmers since I was a teenager. And the baaastards never pull over. So why should I support them now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope next time they shiiit spread all over your car and it’s an open top
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 5 hours, 43 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
There's a clown farmer that lives around 10-15 mins from me that likes to see and hear himself on TV. I think he's misleading a lot of his fellow farmers because, as you state, many won't pay IHT anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
clowns are farmed !?!?!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah thats terrifying
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, R... (U17054)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So according to that article there's 462 farms currently with a value above £1m and 345 of those are below £2.5m, so a chunk will be exempt anyway assuming the current owner is married.
So all the uproar is over say 200-250 farms being taxed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would have been just over a hundred farms in 2022 from HMRC’s own figures.
And that’s farms which would have *anything at all* to pay. Obviously a number of that hundred will only be paying (the already reduced rate of) inheritance tax on a few tens of thousands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s the main issue. Nobody can seem to agree the baseline number, never mind the major obstacle that farms will have to sell land which is theirs and our livelihoods as they don’t have that kind of cash in the bank so to speak.
Makes us head towards more food imports at a time when trade barriers are increasing and tariffs abound. Then there’s the destruction of the countryside.
And all for what? A few low hundred million? The “cost” of this will be much further down the line.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, in terms of who is going to pay and how much, that’s going to be up to HMRC, so in that particular regard, I’m not sure that anyone else’s analysis should be considered remotely interesting.
In terms of the sale of packets of land, again, that’s one potential outcome in each case the beneficiaries might have a substantial tax bill to pay. It obviously won’t happen with all farms, even when there is such an obligation, because many such beneficiaries will have cash and/or other assets, or other means of raising funds, like mortgaging/remortgaging or otherwise securing loans (like the rest of us plebs sometimes have to do).
As to the potential impact on the environment, that’s absolutely a valid concern; but there are much greater threats to the climate, environment and biodiversity than a handful of farms each year losing a small proportion of their land, even if we assume that all of the land lost isn’t then used to farm/otherwise sustainably managed/rewilded.
We’re again busy frothing over a policy which is going to impact a handful of people, and mostly very privileged and comfortable people, once in their lifetimes. It’s a policy which will make things *fairer* (obviously not equalised) for the rest of inheritance tax payers, and will bring in what is still a very fair wedge of cash.
I understand people’s complaints about policies like the winter fuel allowance changes. This one though? It’s a big shrug for me.
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, R... (U17054)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, R... (U17054)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So according to that article there's 462 farms currently with a value above £1m and 345 of those are below £2.5m, so a chunk will be exempt anyway assuming the current owner is married.
So all the uproar is over say 200-250 farms being taxed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would have been just over a hundred farms in 2022 from HMRC’s own figures.
And that’s farms which would have *anything at all* to pay. Obviously a number of that hundred will only be paying (the already reduced rate of) inheritance tax on a few tens of thousands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s the main issue. Nobody can seem to agree the baseline number, never mind the major obstacle that farms will have to sell land which is theirs and our livelihoods as they don’t have that kind of cash in the bank so to speak.
Makes us head towards more food imports at a time when trade barriers are increasing and tariffs abound. Then there’s the destruction of the countryside.
And all for what? A few low hundred million? The “cost” of this will be much further down the line.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, in terms of who is going to pay and how much, that’s going to be up to HMRC, so in that particular regard, I’m not sure that anyone else’s analysis should be considered remotely interesting.
In terms of the sale of packets of land, again, that’s one potential outcome in each case the beneficiaries might have a substantial tax bill to pay. It obviously won’t happen with all farms, even when there is such an obligation, because many such beneficiaries will have cash and/or other assets, or other means of raising funds, like mortgaging/remortgaging or otherwise securing loans (like the rest of us plebs sometimes have to do).
As to the potential impact on the environment, that’s absolutely a valid concern; but there are much greater threats to the climate, environment and biodiversity than a handful of farms each year losing a small proportion of their land, even if we assume that all of the land lost isn’t then used to farm/otherwise sustainably managed/rewilded.
We’re again busy frothing over a policy which is going to impact a handful of people, and mostly very privileged and comfortable people, once in their lifetimes. It’s a policy which will make things *fairer* (obviously not equalised) for the rest of inheritance tax payers, and will bring in what is still a very fair wedge of cash.
I understand people’s complaints about policies like the winter fuel allowance changes. This one though? It’s a big shrug for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough
Does beg the question as if it’s so low on the horizon then why do something that’s so unpopular for such little return?
As for anyone else in the same circumstances from another industry or market; they won’t necessarily lose their livelihoods, which in a farmer’s case is pitiful.
It’s a big shrug for me.
----------------------------------------------------------
A great deal of the commentariat that sees this as an indefensible outrage had only shrugs to give about the hardships and sacrifices that faced low-income people as a result of Austerity policies, the cost of living crisis, the insecurities of zero-hours contracts, etc. The present howls of protest really do underline that much of our media serves to defend the class interests of the wealthy.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
It’s a big shrug for me.
----------------------------------------------------------
A great deal of the commentariat that sees this as an indefensible outrage had only shrugs to give about the hardships and sacrifices that faced low-income people as a result of Austerity policies, the cost of living crisis, the insecurities of zero-hours contracts, etc. The present howls of protest really do underline that much of our media serves to defend the class interests of the wealthy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And apparently they now want to save farming from corporatisation, despite their full backing of corporatisation for decades.
As for anyone else in the same circumstances from another industry or market; they won’t necessarily lose their livelihoods, which in a farmer’s case is pitiful.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Plenty of people have lost their livelihoods or struggle terribly to get by as a result of the succession of Tory economic policies (from Austerity to Brexit to the Truss budget). Those 14 years leave the new government facing an economy that desperately needs investment while also facing a huge gap in public finances. Just about every section of society is impacted by the measures that are confronting that. Young working class families won't be taking baths in champagne. I don't want anyone to suffer economic pain, but I also don't see why those inheriting farms worth a few million should be the only ones exempted.
comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
It’s a big shrug for me.
----------------------------------------------------------
A great deal of the commentariat that sees this as an indefensible outrage had only shrugs to give about the hardships and sacrifices that faced low-income people as a result of Austerity policies, the cost of living crisis, the insecurities of zero-hours contracts, etc. The present howls of protest really do underline that much of our media serves to defend the class interests of the wealthy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And apparently they now want to save farming from corporatisation, despite their full backing of corporatisation for decades.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://youtu.be/qfkSYY3OV-s?feature=shared
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
It’s a big shrug for me.
----------------------------------------------------------
A great deal of the commentariat that sees this as an indefensible outrage had only shrugs to give about the hardships and sacrifices that faced low-income people as a result of Austerity policies, the cost of living crisis, the insecurities of zero-hours contracts, etc. The present howls of protest really do underline that much of our media serves to defend the class interests of the wealthy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And apparently they now want to save farming from corporatisation, despite their full backing of corporatisation for decades.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
“ A great deal of the commentariat….”
In response to this, it may be many, but do you think it was the majority? I doubt it. It is however a comment that can not be quantified.
“despite their full backing of corporatisation for decades.”
In response to this, another comment that can not be quantified.
Both strike me of tarring all the middle class with the same brush.
Sign in if you want to comment
British farmers
Page 4 of 14
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
posted on 18/11/24
Farmers have a huge public support so we can put the myth of having no sympathy to bed pretty quickly.
------------------------------------------------------------------
From everything i've read and seen, i don't think that statement is true tbh...i think it's the opposite.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So according to that article there's 462 farms currently with a value above £1m and 345 of those are below £2.5m, so a chunk will be exempt anyway assuming the current owner is married.
So all the uproar is over say 200-250 farms being taxed?
posted on 18/11/24
Should add per year
posted on 18/11/24
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 50 seconds ago
Farmers have a huge public support so we can put the myth of having no sympathy to bed pretty quickly.
------------------------------------------------------------------
From everything i've read and seen, i don't think that statement is true tbh...i think it's the opposite.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Their support from those in rural areas and part of the rural economy will be absolute.
Those are the ones in the knowledge, who are in the industry or impacted by it
They may still be the minority overall but that's a function of a lack of understanding or interest from the wider population.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its far more complex than that.
Part of the importation is because of what we eat now and when we want to eat it. There's no seasons in the supermarket.
We also have some of the highest standards across the world. As a side, I always find it funny that there is a certain temperature above which you cannot transport livestock. The tube is routinely way above this temp, so its ok to transport humans
Like I say, its an essential service. The trains cost us £3bn plus a year. Should we scrap them? Should be pump up prices to make it break even?
If you want to find efficiencies, to make farming 'wash its face' then the way to do it is to go mass production on every level. This will destroy the countryside, rural economies, many traditional elements about this country, its landscape and its history.
That is what the IHT will lead to, much more big business farming and that is not a good thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it's far more complex, no one should say it's easy but one the one hand you're saying farmers are finding it hard to break even, then when it suits you say they're doing well. And you choose which depending which suits your argument against IHT.
It's not IHT that will tip UK farming towards mass production, that's happening already with exports, and come on, IHT or no IHT we all know that's the way it's headed anyway because of the economic model UK farmers already work within. To blame IHT is being disingenuous tbf.
As I've posted before many of the minority of farmers affected by this change can mitigate against it by gifting part of their land to their sons/daughters, many of whom are running the farms anyway.
Farmers will get little sympathy over this. We need taxes to sort out the public services we ALL rely on that have been stripped bare by 14 years of tory rule, whether it's water, sewage, public transport, the funding for local governments, policing, doctors, nurses, magistrates, all to line the pockets of tory donors and their bezzy mates. Farmers crying about paying tax everyone else who is eligible to pay is really not a good look. You want public support, go after the kants who are bleeding you dry, but I doubt you'll do that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I havent said farmers are finding it hard to break even. It is a difficult industry but that is not my main point.
If you look at the examples I quoted from research, farms do not make huge profits. What are very valuable and unavoidable expensive assets (a combine harvester costs £0.5m, substantial farm tractors cost +£150k) do not produce much return on investment but one cannot operate without them. Similarly land. 200 acres is a typical family farm size and that's £2 - £2.5m
It is a sector that requires huge investment to secure a fairly modest return.
To hand it on to your son, if that is going to wipe out profits for a period of time, then why would anyone make that choice.
You completely miss the point about nuances of agriculture and the tax regime.
If i die and my house goes to my kids then they'll sell it, be much better off and pay tax on it.
If a farmer dies and hands the business to his son, then that tax bill threatens the very viability of the farm, requiring them to sell part (no easy at all) of the whole to pay the tax.
To say we are all subject to the same tax rules is to completely misunderstand the intricacies of this situation.
As said above, if son has no intention to farm and will sell, then tax him. It doesn't impact on viability, just what he receives for the business. That is fair.
What isn't fair is to impose this tax in situations where farms handed down through the generations is not about pocketing valuable assets, its about allowing farming practices and traditions, which are a big part of the rural economy, and this country's history, to continue, and not forcing sales which will only have harmful impacts
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate I don't want you to think I don't care about what's happening to UK farming. I just disagree with you on this issue around IHT.
I do fully appreciate all the complexities that make farming in the UK far more problematic. Machinery, labour costs, transportation, production efficiencies around weather, soil conditions etc, market demands, subsidies abroad, economies of scale, all are often stacked against UK farming.
Finding solutions to this for me is what's needed, but I have to admit I don't think the long term outlook looks great and maybe we're heading towards family owned farming in the UK becoming history. I hope it dorsn't happen, but if it does it will be a victim of so-called "market forces" which is used to destroy most British institutions, not IHT.
I don't know if you're a farmer yourself, but I genuinely wish you well either way.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 2 minutes ago
Should add per year
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But its about the impact of this IHT.
If it means that a significant number of these farms are sold off, then impacts of this will be very harmful to the environment and the rural economy, and such changes and harm will be irreversible.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So according to that article there's 462 farms currently with a value above £1m and 345 of those are below £2.5m, so a chunk will be exempt anyway assuming the current owner is married.
So all the uproar is over say 200-250 farms being taxed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would have been just over a hundred farms in 2022 from HMRC’s own figures.
And that’s farms which would have *anything at all* to pay. Obviously a number of that hundred will only be paying (the already reduced rate of) inheritance tax on a few tens of thousands.
posted on 18/11/24
All it needs for 99% of the farming community to avoid the charge, is to not be so tight and pay someone to sort-out their tax affairs.
Gift the farm to their children before they get old, live for another seven years, job done.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 51 seconds ago
I have a general sympathy for farmers around their exploitation by supermarkets and the unfair business model they're constrained to work under by big businesses. For example being one of the few imdustries that by at retail value and sell at wholesale. And the wholesale value has increased very little in 40 years.
But this issue of IHT is a little over blown. 28% claimed exemption last year and many of those were land owners using the tax loophole for personal gain.
Also you can mitigate the IHT liability with good financial planning, for example you can gift all or part of your estate with a sliding scale reduction of IHT over 7 years so if you die after this your beneficiaries pay nothing.
What I find funny is the same media outlets who tried to wind up farmers with lies to vote for Brexit, then turned their back on them, giving zero fcks, when farmers were completely screwed by it, are now once again trying to show faux sympathy for them to have a pop at a Labour government.
———————————————
They really should form a trade union
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it was you who posted about them getting together to campaign against the barrel they're bent over when it comes to the exploitation by supermarkets, but that is really where their focus should be.
For example if I've heard correctly, wholesale price of wheat in 1984 was £140 per kg, after 40 years it's £180 which in real terms accounting for inflation in that time is a fcking joke.
If they campaigned and went on strike over this they'd get far more public support.
No doubt any such increase in wholesale prices would impact on supermarket prices for all of us, but we need to either accept that or force supermarkets to reduce their extortionate prices by shopping somewhere else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Supermarkets would import. Simple!
Get in the real world! You can tell from 90% of the comments on here that no one gives a feck about farmers and the countryside, and if there were British mil at £2.50 for 4 pints and french milk for £1.50 then you would buy the latter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that, but this is where the UK farmers' problem really lies. Not in the IHT changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Food supply is an essential service, like water, power etc
It is imperative that we maintain a strong supply of food and we cannot rely totally on imports because we then become vulnerable.
It is propped up by £2.4Bn which is the same as the CAP before we left EU.
It's not a failing industry, it is just one that is very diverse and has impacts well beyond the simple supply of food and it is in everyone greater good that food supply remains...across all areas, not just the mass produced but also the smaller individual outputs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate from what I know 2 years ago we were importing 55% of our food and there was already a 22% decline in farmers over a decade from 2012.
We've been hearing for years how farming is in decline. I'm amazed you're trying to push the real problem to one side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its far more complex than that.
Part of the importation is because of what we eat now and when we want to eat it. There's no seasons in the supermarket.
We also have some of the highest standards across the world. As a side, I always find it funny that there is a certain temperature above which you cannot transport livestock. The tube is routinely way above this temp, so its ok to transport humans
Like I say, its an essential service. The trains cost us £3bn plus a year. Should we scrap them? Should be pump up prices to make it break even?
If you want to find efficiencies, to make farming 'wash its face' then the way to do it is to go mass production on every level. This will destroy the countryside, rural economies, many traditional elements about this country, its landscape and its history.
That is what the IHT will lead to, much more big business farming and that is not a good thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it's far more complex, no one should say it's easy but one the one hand you're saying farmers are finding it hard to break even, then when it suits you say they're doing well. And you choose which depending which suits your argument against IHT.
It's not IHT that will tip UK farming towards mass production, that's happening already with exports, and come on, IHT or no IHT we all know that's the way it's headed anyway because of the economic model UK farmers already work within. To blame IHT is being disingenuous tbf.
As I've posted before many of the minority of farmers affected by this change can mitigate against it by gifting part of their land to their sons/daughters, many of whom are running the farms anyway.
Farmers will get little sympathy over this. We need taxes to sort out the public services we ALL rely on that have been stripped bare by 14 years of tory rule, whether it's water, sewage, public transport, the funding for local governments, policing, doctors, nurses, magistrates, all to line the pockets of tory donors and their bezzy mates. Farmers crying about paying tax everyone else who is eligible to pay is really not a good look. You want public support, go after the kants who are bleeding you dry, but I doubt you'll do that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I havent said farmers are finding it hard to break even. It is a difficult industry but that is not my main point.
If you look at the examples I quoted from research, farms do not make huge profits. What are very valuable and unavoidable expensive assets (a combine harvester costs £0.5m, substantial farm tractors cost +£150k) do not produce much return on investment but one cannot operate without them. Similarly land. 200 acres is a typical family farm size and that's £2 - £2.5m
It is a sector that requires huge investment to secure a fairly modest return.
To hand it on to your son, if that is going to wipe out profits for a period of time, then why would anyone make that choice.
You completely miss the point about nuances of agriculture and the tax regime.
If i die and my house goes to my kids then they'll sell it, be much better off and pay tax on it.
If a farmer dies and hands the business to his son, then that tax bill threatens the very viability of the farm, requiring them to sell part (no easy at all) of the whole to pay the tax.
To say we are all subject to the same tax rules is to completely misunderstand the intricacies of this situation.
As said above, if son has no intention to farm and will sell, then tax him. It doesn't impact on viability, just what he receives for the business. That is fair.
What isn't fair is to impose this tax in situations where farms handed down through the generations is not about pocketing valuable assets, its about allowing farming practices and traditions, which are a big part of the rural economy, and this country's history, to continue, and not forcing sales which will only have harmful impacts
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate I don't want you to think I don't care about what's happening to UK farming. I just disagree with you on this issue around IHT.
I do fully appreciate all the complexities that make farming in the UK far more problematic. Machinery, labour costs, transportation, production efficiencies around weather, soil conditions etc, market demands, subsidies abroad, economies of scale, all are often stacked against UK farming.
Finding solutions to this for me is what's needed, but I have to admit I don't think the long term outlook looks great and maybe we're heading towards family owned farming in the UK becoming history. I hope it dorsn't happen, but if it does it will be a victim of so-called "market forces" which is used to destroy most British institutions, not IHT.
I don't know if you're a farmer yourself, but I genuinely wish you well either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Family farming becoming history" is absolutely what we should be looking to avoid and the reasons are overwhelming - economic, environmental, societal, tradition.
The IHT situation will speed this up and that is why it is bad, that is why people are protesting.
Many on here have some perception that just because people are sitting on assets worth millions that they are wealthy.
They only become wealthy if they ever realise that value (which a family farm handed down does not) but I am absolutely down with taxation when that wealth is realised (sold)
posted on 18/11/24
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, R... (U17054)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So according to that article there's 462 farms currently with a value above £1m and 345 of those are below £2.5m, so a chunk will be exempt anyway assuming the current owner is married.
So all the uproar is over say 200-250 farms being taxed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would have been just over a hundred farms in 2022 from HMRC’s own figures.
And that’s farms which would have *anything at all* to pay. Obviously a number of that hundred will only be paying (the already reduced rate of) inheritance tax on a few tens of thousands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s the main issue. Nobody can seem to agree the baseline number, never mind the major obstacle that farms will have to sell land which is theirs and our livelihoods as they don’t have that kind of cash in the bank so to speak.
Makes us head towards more food imports at a time when trade barriers are increasing and tariffs abound. Then there’s the destruction of the countryside.
And all for what? A few low hundred million? The “cost” of this will be much further down the line.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 4 seconds ago
All it needs for 99% of the farming community to avoid the charge, is to not be so tight and pay someone to sort-out their tax affairs.
Gift the farm to their children before they get old, live for another seven years, job done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not as simple as that, in fact its hugely complicated if the gifter is continuing as the farmer/owner.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 4 seconds ago
All it needs for 99% of the farming community to avoid the charge, is to not be so tight and pay someone to sort-out their tax affairs.
Gift the farm to their children before they get old, live for another seven years, job done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not as simple as that, in fact its hugely complicated if the gifter is continuing as the farmer/owner.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
£325k is the lifetime allowance. £500k from a married couple. Between all children as a total.
And that calculation is already in the governments workings.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, R... (U17054)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So according to that article there's 462 farms currently with a value above £1m and 345 of those are below £2.5m, so a chunk will be exempt anyway assuming the current owner is married.
So all the uproar is over say 200-250 farms being taxed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would have been just over a hundred farms in 2022 from HMRC’s own figures.
And that’s farms which would have *anything at all* to pay. Obviously a number of that hundred will only be paying (the already reduced rate of) inheritance tax on a few tens of thousands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s the main issue. Nobody can seem to agree the baseline number, never mind the major obstacle that farms will have to sell land which is theirs and our livelihoods as they don’t have that kind of cash in the bank so to speak.
Makes us head towards more food imports at a time when trade barriers are increasing and tariffs abound. Then there’s the destruction of the countryside.
And all for what? A few low hundred million? The “cost” of this will be much further down the line.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your last line sums it up.
It's the long term irreversible impact on the sector and the environment and the rural economy that will be very damaging.
As said before, people arent protesting because they're being hit in the pocket. And there is exploitation of the loop hole that needs targeting.
This approach really does lack fairness, foresight and a proper impact assessment, which is now evident from the protests.
posted on 18/11/24
I've been getting behind farmers since I was a teenager. And the baaastards never pull over. So why should I support them now?
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 22 seconds ago
I've been getting behind farmers since I was a teenager. And the baaastards never pull over. So why should I support them now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope next time they shiiit spread all over your car and it’s an open top
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 22 seconds ago
I've been getting behind farmers since I was a teenager. And the baaastards never pull over. So why should I support them now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope next time they shiiit spread all over your car and it’s an open top
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 18/11/24
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 5 hours, 43 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
There's a clown farmer that lives around 10-15 mins from me that likes to see and hear himself on TV. I think he's misleading a lot of his fellow farmers because, as you state, many won't pay IHT anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
clowns are farmed !?!?!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah thats terrifying
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, R... (U17054)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So according to that article there's 462 farms currently with a value above £1m and 345 of those are below £2.5m, so a chunk will be exempt anyway assuming the current owner is married.
So all the uproar is over say 200-250 farms being taxed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would have been just over a hundred farms in 2022 from HMRC’s own figures.
And that’s farms which would have *anything at all* to pay. Obviously a number of that hundred will only be paying (the already reduced rate of) inheritance tax on a few tens of thousands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s the main issue. Nobody can seem to agree the baseline number, never mind the major obstacle that farms will have to sell land which is theirs and our livelihoods as they don’t have that kind of cash in the bank so to speak.
Makes us head towards more food imports at a time when trade barriers are increasing and tariffs abound. Then there’s the destruction of the countryside.
And all for what? A few low hundred million? The “cost” of this will be much further down the line.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, in terms of who is going to pay and how much, that’s going to be up to HMRC, so in that particular regard, I’m not sure that anyone else’s analysis should be considered remotely interesting.
In terms of the sale of packets of land, again, that’s one potential outcome in each case the beneficiaries might have a substantial tax bill to pay. It obviously won’t happen with all farms, even when there is such an obligation, because many such beneficiaries will have cash and/or other assets, or other means of raising funds, like mortgaging/remortgaging or otherwise securing loans (like the rest of us plebs sometimes have to do).
As to the potential impact on the environment, that’s absolutely a valid concern; but there are much greater threats to the climate, environment and biodiversity than a handful of farms each year losing a small proportion of their land, even if we assume that all of the land lost isn’t then used to farm/otherwise sustainably managed/rewilded.
We’re again busy frothing over a policy which is going to impact a handful of people, and mostly very privileged and comfortable people, once in their lifetimes. It’s a policy which will make things *fairer* (obviously not equalised) for the rest of inheritance tax payers, and will bring in what is still a very fair wedge of cash.
I understand people’s complaints about policies like the winter fuel allowance changes. This one though? It’s a big shrug for me.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, R... (U17054)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, R... (U17054)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So according to that article there's 462 farms currently with a value above £1m and 345 of those are below £2.5m, so a chunk will be exempt anyway assuming the current owner is married.
So all the uproar is over say 200-250 farms being taxed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would have been just over a hundred farms in 2022 from HMRC’s own figures.
And that’s farms which would have *anything at all* to pay. Obviously a number of that hundred will only be paying (the already reduced rate of) inheritance tax on a few tens of thousands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s the main issue. Nobody can seem to agree the baseline number, never mind the major obstacle that farms will have to sell land which is theirs and our livelihoods as they don’t have that kind of cash in the bank so to speak.
Makes us head towards more food imports at a time when trade barriers are increasing and tariffs abound. Then there’s the destruction of the countryside.
And all for what? A few low hundred million? The “cost” of this will be much further down the line.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, in terms of who is going to pay and how much, that’s going to be up to HMRC, so in that particular regard, I’m not sure that anyone else’s analysis should be considered remotely interesting.
In terms of the sale of packets of land, again, that’s one potential outcome in each case the beneficiaries might have a substantial tax bill to pay. It obviously won’t happen with all farms, even when there is such an obligation, because many such beneficiaries will have cash and/or other assets, or other means of raising funds, like mortgaging/remortgaging or otherwise securing loans (like the rest of us plebs sometimes have to do).
As to the potential impact on the environment, that’s absolutely a valid concern; but there are much greater threats to the climate, environment and biodiversity than a handful of farms each year losing a small proportion of their land, even if we assume that all of the land lost isn’t then used to farm/otherwise sustainably managed/rewilded.
We’re again busy frothing over a policy which is going to impact a handful of people, and mostly very privileged and comfortable people, once in their lifetimes. It’s a policy which will make things *fairer* (obviously not equalised) for the rest of inheritance tax payers, and will bring in what is still a very fair wedge of cash.
I understand people’s complaints about policies like the winter fuel allowance changes. This one though? It’s a big shrug for me.
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Fair enough
Does beg the question as if it’s so low on the horizon then why do something that’s so unpopular for such little return?
As for anyone else in the same circumstances from another industry or market; they won’t necessarily lose their livelihoods, which in a farmer’s case is pitiful.
posted on 18/11/24
It’s a big shrug for me.
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A great deal of the commentariat that sees this as an indefensible outrage had only shrugs to give about the hardships and sacrifices that faced low-income people as a result of Austerity policies, the cost of living crisis, the insecurities of zero-hours contracts, etc. The present howls of protest really do underline that much of our media serves to defend the class interests of the wealthy.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
It’s a big shrug for me.
----------------------------------------------------------
A great deal of the commentariat that sees this as an indefensible outrage had only shrugs to give about the hardships and sacrifices that faced low-income people as a result of Austerity policies, the cost of living crisis, the insecurities of zero-hours contracts, etc. The present howls of protest really do underline that much of our media serves to defend the class interests of the wealthy.
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And apparently they now want to save farming from corporatisation, despite their full backing of corporatisation for decades.
posted on 18/11/24
As for anyone else in the same circumstances from another industry or market; they won’t necessarily lose their livelihoods, which in a farmer’s case is pitiful.
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Plenty of people have lost their livelihoods or struggle terribly to get by as a result of the succession of Tory economic policies (from Austerity to Brexit to the Truss budget). Those 14 years leave the new government facing an economy that desperately needs investment while also facing a huge gap in public finances. Just about every section of society is impacted by the measures that are confronting that. Young working class families won't be taking baths in champagne. I don't want anyone to suffer economic pain, but I also don't see why those inheriting farms worth a few million should be the only ones exempted.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
It’s a big shrug for me.
----------------------------------------------------------
A great deal of the commentariat that sees this as an indefensible outrage had only shrugs to give about the hardships and sacrifices that faced low-income people as a result of Austerity policies, the cost of living crisis, the insecurities of zero-hours contracts, etc. The present howls of protest really do underline that much of our media serves to defend the class interests of the wealthy.
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And apparently they now want to save farming from corporatisation, despite their full backing of corporatisation for decades.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 18/11/24
https://youtu.be/qfkSYY3OV-s?feature=shared
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
It’s a big shrug for me.
----------------------------------------------------------
A great deal of the commentariat that sees this as an indefensible outrage had only shrugs to give about the hardships and sacrifices that faced low-income people as a result of Austerity policies, the cost of living crisis, the insecurities of zero-hours contracts, etc. The present howls of protest really do underline that much of our media serves to defend the class interests of the wealthy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And apparently they now want to save farming from corporatisation, despite their full backing of corporatisation for decades.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
“ A great deal of the commentariat….”
In response to this, it may be many, but do you think it was the majority? I doubt it. It is however a comment that can not be quantified.
“despite their full backing of corporatisation for decades.”
In response to this, another comment that can not be quantified.
Both strike me of tarring all the middle class with the same brush.
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