Something something nice stadium, something something profitable business….

comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 17 minutes ago
Something something nice stadium, something something profitable business….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But yesturday you wrote an article about 'great times' under Poch which were under also ENIC.

Talking about all the failures under Poch as if it was some glory era 😂😂😂😂😂. Silly boy.

£315m spent and it hasn't even been 3 years for Ange

Here's how much Liverpool's owners have invested.

ZERO.

Spurs now routinely outspend Liverpool (last 5 years) so it is really its not a case of us spending enough. The owners have put us in this position of being able to compete financially.

So what is the issue in your opinion? What should the owners do that they are not? and i'm not talking hollow platitudes like "show ambition" i am talking about what could we have done, and afforded to have done which we have not.

I am not saying things could not have been done slightly better but we have to be serious about what can be done. We could not go out this summer and bought Solanke and Eze/Neto and Gray (or another CM) and a top CB and replaced Davies . We spent large sums again. £125m on top of last seasons £165m - nearly £300m spent by Ange already.

But we may well add more quality this January and we will certainly spend about £100m - £150m next summer, which should be 2 or 3 quality additions.

I can get the hate from the days when we were far more financially limited, and from the post-poch decisions. But I do not get the timing of this OP and how fans think they're still holding us back when all they have really done is max our revenue and spend that revenue.

You raise this, have a proper debate about it, a realistic 'what we could and should have done different' discussion.

What are all the ingredients that would have cemented us as the top London club forever?

Nothing lasts forever!

How can you say we will be an average team forever.

We could win the Europa this season, qualify for the UCL, make another final?

If you want to know what average is then look at the first 8 years of the PL, before ENIC. Spurs never top 6, never bottom 6. The true definition of mediocre!

Spurs are not a football club..... They are a Sports and entertainment business that enter a team to participate in professional football competitions.

They are very well run and highly profitable. If you don't like it, you are free to spend your money elsewhere !

comment by Diamondlights (U20501)
posted 4 minutes ago
Spurs are not a football club..... They are a Sports and entertainment business that enter a team to participate in professional football competitions.

They are very well run and highly profitable. If you don't like it, you are free to spend your money elsewhere !
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It's an odd attitude to mock Spurs' almost unique ability to attract significant non-football revenues.

Revenues that are invested into the football club.

Would you prefer it if we had West Ham-esque revenues. Big, crap ground that earns them nothing beyond matchday revenue meaning their revenues and spending is this a fraction of ours?

We generate 10s of millions through gigs, boxing NFL etc, yet you seem to not like this?

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Diamondlights (U20501)
posted 4 minutes ago
Spurs are not a football club..... They are a Sports and entertainment business that enter a team to participate in professional football competitions.

They are very well run and highly profitable. If you don't like it, you are free to spend your money elsewhere !
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It's an odd attitude to mock Spurs' almost unique ability to attract significant non-football revenues.

Revenues that are invested into the football club.

Would you prefer it if we had West Ham-esque revenues. Big, crap ground that earns them nothing beyond matchday revenue meaning their revenues and spending is this a fraction of ours?

We generate 10s of millions through gigs, boxing NFL etc, yet you seem to not like this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's great.... Makes total business sense. Daniel Levy is an excellent businessman

Spurs are the "gold standard" in terms of stadium, marketing, cross-over commerciality, profitability, hospitality etc.

The only area we fall short is the eleven guys on the pitch and the bloke sat in the dug out.

Much like our managers understanding the balance of attack and defense, we seem to be afflicted at board level too.

Its a shame... It COULD all be so good, Like you said, we COULD win the league, FA Cup, Europa and qualify for the CL...... But we probably wont !

After 23 years of ENIC.... I'm a bit bored of waiting

My shares in Apple, Nvidia & Tesla have given me more joy in the past 23 years than the business that is Tottenham Hotspur

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
Here's how much Liverpool's owners have invested.

ZERO.

Spurs now routinely outspend Liverpool (last 5 years) so it is really its not a case of us spending enough. The owners have put us in this position of being able to compete financially.

So what is the issue in your opinion? What should the owners do that they are not? and i'm not talking hollow platitudes like "show ambition" i am talking about what could we have done, and afforded to have done which we have not.

I am not saying things could not have been done slightly better but we have to be serious about what can be done. We could not go out this summer and bought Solanke and Eze/Neto and Gray (or another CM) and a top CB and replaced Davies . We spent large sums again. £125m on top of last seasons £165m - nearly £300m spent by Ange already.

But we may well add more quality this January and we will certainly spend about £100m - £150m next summer, which should be 2 or 3 quality additions.

I can get the hate from the days when we were far more financially limited, and from the post-poch decisions. But I do not get the timing of this OP and how fans think they're still holding us back when all they have really done is max our revenue and spend that revenue.

You raise this, have a proper debate about it, a realistic 'what we could and should have done different' discussion.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do agree with this. The major faults of Levy and Enic have been more in the past than in recent times. Of course we can continue to hold them to account for the ongoing lack of trophies, but things like backing the manager, for once they are allowing him to spend hundreds of millions. Even if we might have done more, realistically we were never going to purchase every single target. At least it's better than the days when we got Champions League for the first time and left it to the last second to think of buying someone to improve our squad.

comment by Luka Bosh Brasi (U22178)
posted 2 hours, 51 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 17 minutes ago
Something something nice stadium, something something profitable business….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But yesturday you wrote an article about 'great times' under Poch which were under also ENIC.

Talking about all the failures under Poch as if it was some glory era 😂😂😂😂😂. Silly boy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't agree with you much, but you got that spot on.

comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
Here's how much Liverpool's owners have invested.

ZERO.

Spurs now routinely outspend Liverpool (last 5 years) so it is really its not a case of us spending enough. The owners have put us in this position of being able to compete financially.

So what is the issue in your opinion? What should the owners do that they are not? and i'm not talking hollow platitudes like "show ambition" i am talking about what could we have done, and afforded to have done which we have not.

I am not saying things could not have been done slightly better but we have to be serious about what can be done. We could not go out this summer and bought Solanke and Eze/Neto and Gray (or another CM) and a top CB and replaced Davies . We spent large sums again. £125m on top of last seasons £165m - nearly £300m spent by Ange already.

But we may well add more quality this January and we will certainly spend about £100m - £150m next summer, which should be 2 or 3 quality additions.

I can get the hate from the days when we were far more financially limited, and from the post-poch decisions. But I do not get the timing of this OP and how fans think they're still holding us back when all they have really done is max our revenue and spend that revenue.

You raise this, have a proper debate about it, a realistic 'what we could and should have done different' discussion.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do agree with this. The major faults of Levy and Enic have been more in the past than in recent times. Of course we can continue to hold them to account for the ongoing lack of trophies, but things like backing the manager, for once they are allowing him to spend hundreds of millions. Even if we might have done more, realistically we were never going to purchase every single target. At least it's better than the days when we got Champions League for the first time and left it to the last second to think of buying someone to improve our squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Out of interest, If Liverpool owners have invested nothing, then why aren’t they below spurs on the OP’s list?

comment by Mack (U6574)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
Here's how much Liverpool's owners have invested.

ZERO.

Spurs now routinely outspend Liverpool (last 5 years) so it is really its not a case of us spending enough. The owners have put us in this position of being able to compete financially.

So what is the issue in your opinion? What should the owners do that they are not? and i'm not talking hollow platitudes like "show ambition" i am talking about what could we have done, and afforded to have done which we have not.

I am not saying things could not have been done slightly better but we have to be serious about what can be done. We could not go out this summer and bought Solanke and Eze/Neto and Gray (or another CM) and a top CB and replaced Davies . We spent large sums again. £125m on top of last seasons £165m - nearly £300m spent by Ange already.

But we may well add more quality this January and we will certainly spend about £100m - £150m next summer, which should be 2 or 3 quality additions.

I can get the hate from the days when we were far more financially limited, and from the post-poch decisions. But I do not get the timing of this OP and how fans think they're still holding us back when all they have really done is max our revenue and spend that revenue.

You raise this, have a proper debate about it, a realistic 'what we could and should have done different' discussion.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do agree with this. The major faults of Levy and Enic have been more in the past than in recent times. Of course we can continue to hold them to account for the ongoing lack of trophies, but things like backing the manager, for once they are allowing him to spend hundreds of millions. Even if we might have done more, realistically we were never going to purchase every single target. At least it's better than the days when we got Champions League for the first time and left it to the last second to think of buying someone to improve our squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Out of interest, If Liverpool owners have invested nothing, then why aren’t they below spurs on the OP’s list?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not agreeing with the Liverpool part of what Devon says, only the part about Spurs. Whatever Liverpool have or haven't spent, they've clearly done a better job of it than us over the years. But we knew this already. When they were on the rise with Klopp they made statement signings that took them to another level. When we were on the rise with Poch we just stood there admiring our work, not realising our potential to go further. Now the two clubs are where they are.

I remember those few years when Spurs fans saw Liverpool as a genuine rival. Mammaries

comment by Mack (U6574)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
Here's how much Liverpool's owners have invested.

ZERO.

Spurs now routinely outspend Liverpool (last 5 years) so it is really its not a case of us spending enough. The owners have put us in this position of being able to compete financially.

So what is the issue in your opinion? What should the owners do that they are not? and i'm not talking hollow platitudes like "show ambition" i am talking about what could we have done, and afforded to have done which we have not.

I am not saying things could not have been done slightly better but we have to be serious about what can be done. We could not go out this summer and bought Solanke and Eze/Neto and Gray (or another CM) and a top CB and replaced Davies . We spent large sums again. £125m on top of last seasons £165m - nearly £300m spent by Ange already.

But we may well add more quality this January and we will certainly spend about £100m - £150m next summer, which should be 2 or 3 quality additions.

I can get the hate from the days when we were far more financially limited, and from the post-poch decisions. But I do not get the timing of this OP and how fans think they're still holding us back when all they have really done is max our revenue and spend that revenue.

You raise this, have a proper debate about it, a realistic 'what we could and should have done different' discussion.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do agree with this. The major faults of Levy and Enic have been more in the past than in recent times. Of course we can continue to hold them to account for the ongoing lack of trophies, but things like backing the manager, for once they are allowing him to spend hundreds of millions. Even if we might have done more, realistically we were never going to purchase every single target. At least it's better than the days when we got Champions League for the first time and left it to the last second to think of buying someone to improve our squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Out of interest, If Liverpool owners have invested nothing, then why aren’t they below spurs on the OP’s list?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Liverpool have been successful despite of a lack of owner investment, so the fact that ENIC haven't pumped their own capital in is not a reason to knock them because it is not a prerequisite to success.

What is a prerequisite to success is having a lot of money to spend and our owners have now put us in that position.

LFC have achieved more because they have made better decisions, and that fundamentally comes down to one decision - Klopp, who had the gravitas and strength of character to impose what he wanted on the club, and the club listened.

ENIC are guilty of making some poor decisions and may be guilty of not listening to their manager(s), but i would suggest that that is changing. The set up is very different and our spending power has allowed us to be a bit more pro-active in our dealings rather than constantly hanging on for bargains.

This is the list I think the op is referring to

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5923137/2024/11/18/premier-league-investment-owner-ranking/#


Just can’t see how Liverpool owners have incvested zero?

comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Mack (U6574)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
Here's how much Liverpool's owners have invested.

ZERO.

Spurs now routinely outspend Liverpool (last 5 years) so it is really its not a case of us spending enough. The owners have put us in this position of being able to compete financially.

So what is the issue in your opinion? What should the owners do that they are not? and i'm not talking hollow platitudes like "show ambition" i am talking about what could we have done, and afforded to have done which we have not.

I am not saying things could not have been done slightly better but we have to be serious about what can be done. We could not go out this summer and bought Solanke and Eze/Neto and Gray (or another CM) and a top CB and replaced Davies . We spent large sums again. £125m on top of last seasons £165m - nearly £300m spent by Ange already.

But we may well add more quality this January and we will certainly spend about £100m - £150m next summer, which should be 2 or 3 quality additions.

I can get the hate from the days when we were far more financially limited, and from the post-poch decisions. But I do not get the timing of this OP and how fans think they're still holding us back when all they have really done is max our revenue and spend that revenue.

You raise this, have a proper debate about it, a realistic 'what we could and should have done different' discussion.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do agree with this. The major faults of Levy and Enic have been more in the past than in recent times. Of course we can continue to hold them to account for the ongoing lack of trophies, but things like backing the manager, for once they are allowing him to spend hundreds of millions. Even if we might have done more, realistically we were never going to purchase every single target. At least it's better than the days when we got Champions League for the first time and left it to the last second to think of buying someone to improve our squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Out of interest, If Liverpool owners have invested nothing, then why aren’t they below spurs on the OP’s list?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not agreeing with the Liverpool part of what Devon says, only the part about Spurs. Whatever Liverpool have or haven't spent, they've clearly done a better job of it than us over the years. But we knew this already. When they were on the rise with Klopp they made statement signings that took them to another level. When we were on the rise with Poch we just stood there admiring our work, not realising our potential to go further. Now the two clubs are where they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

When we were on the rise with Poch we were also spending £1bn on a new stadium.

The season of no transfers wasnt because we were admiring our good work, it was partially a lack of money but also a decision (by Poch reportedly) to save what was available and have a bigger budget next time around, on targets that would cost more but, supposedly, move us forward. The following summer saw our biggest net spend ever. Similar spending sprees had only been made possible by selling a star or 2.

In fact there is an interesting comparison with LFC, as they spent the summer chasing VVD. Didnt get him, didnt panic buy, started the season without a CB and then got him at great expense in the January window.

A decision that shows an element of risk but a view on the longer game, that when in this building phase, what is important is what the squad looks like at the end of that phase and that what is important is who you get in and not necessarily the timing. A good strategy, commitment to that strategy with an eye to the future gains, and some patience.

United should actually be at the very bottom of that list with a total ownership input of £45m.

Not a single penny of the £800m used to buy the club came from the Glazers’ pockets: the entire deal was financed with loans taken out against the club’s assets and the PIK loans, which have now cost the club more than the purchase price of £800m to service.

comment by Mack (U6574)
posted 7 minutes ago
This is the list I think the op is referring to

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5923137/2024/11/18/premier-league-investment-owner-ranking/#


Just can’t see how Liverpool owners have incvested zero?



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Liverpool owners lent their club money to extend the main stand. This was paid back:

"Aside from early investment, helping with the reconstruction of Anfield’s Main Stand, no owner funding has been recorded since the 2015-16 season. Money was actually paid back to reduce the amounts owed to FSG between 2017 and 2020."

So while they may have put money in to the club it was on a loan (and the purchase price, which isnt really investment in to the club, it's what they paid the old owners)

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Mack (U6574)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
Here's how much Liverpool's owners have invested.

ZERO.

Spurs now routinely outspend Liverpool (last 5 years) so it is really its not a case of us spending enough. The owners have put us in this position of being able to compete financially.

So what is the issue in your opinion? What should the owners do that they are not? and i'm not talking hollow platitudes like "show ambition" i am talking about what could we have done, and afforded to have done which we have not.

I am not saying things could not have been done slightly better but we have to be serious about what can be done. We could not go out this summer and bought Solanke and Eze/Neto and Gray (or another CM) and a top CB and replaced Davies . We spent large sums again. £125m on top of last seasons £165m - nearly £300m spent by Ange already.

But we may well add more quality this January and we will certainly spend about £100m - £150m next summer, which should be 2 or 3 quality additions.

I can get the hate from the days when we were far more financially limited, and from the post-poch decisions. But I do not get the timing of this OP and how fans think they're still holding us back when all they have really done is max our revenue and spend that revenue.

You raise this, have a proper debate about it, a realistic 'what we could and should have done different' discussion.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do agree with this. The major faults of Levy and Enic have been more in the past than in recent times. Of course we can continue to hold them to account for the ongoing lack of trophies, but things like backing the manager, for once they are allowing him to spend hundreds of millions. Even if we might have done more, realistically we were never going to purchase every single target. At least it's better than the days when we got Champions League for the first time and left it to the last second to think of buying someone to improve our squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Out of interest, If Liverpool owners have invested nothing, then why aren’t they below spurs on the OP’s list?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not agreeing with the Liverpool part of what Devon says, only the part about Spurs. Whatever Liverpool have or haven't spent, they've clearly done a better job of it than us over the years. But we knew this already. When they were on the rise with Klopp they made statement signings that took them to another level. When we were on the rise with Poch we just stood there admiring our work, not realising our potential to go further. Now the two clubs are where they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

When we were on the rise with Poch we were also spending £1bn on a new stadium.

The season of no transfers wasnt because we were admiring our good work, it was partially a lack of money but also a decision (by Poch reportedly) to save what was available and have a bigger budget next time around, on targets that would cost more but, supposedly, move us forward. The following summer saw our biggest net spend ever. Similar spending sprees had only been made possible by selling a star or 2.

In fact there is an interesting comparison with LFC, as they spent the summer chasing VVD. Didnt get him, didnt panic buy, started the season without a CB and then got him at great expense in the January window.

A decision that shows an element of risk but a view on the longer game, that when in this building phase, what is important is what the squad looks like at the end of that phase and that what is important is who you get in and not necessarily the timing. A good strategy, commitment to that strategy with an eye to the future gains, and some patience.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We could have still done more even with the investment in the stadium. We all know about Grealish. Could have got Mane instead of Sissoko, who was a panic signing right at the end from a relegated club, who had not had a good season. Ironic how Liverpool got Mane and we got the player who instead helped us lose to them in the CL final.

At least lately we are backing the current manager with more money and haven't been leaving things until the very end of transfer windows to do business.

I am seriously hoping that now we have the stadium in place and when/if we get back into contention, like we did under Poch, that we will do all that is necessary to take us to the next level, and that all this money spent under Ange isn't just Levy's determination to get us back into the top 4 at which point he'll slacken off on the investment. Right now though the question marks are with Ange and whether he is even the best manager to put us in contention again.

I agree Spurtle. We can totally point at some decisions that have held us back. Some are with the benefit of hindsight, but many typify the frustrations that fans have had over the years.

I do think we are in a new cycle now, the development phase we are going through now is being achieved with a mix of kids and a few more older heads, and i think that's fine for now, as the changes being made have had to be many.

As we develop we need to see that become more refined, focussed on 1 or 2 top quality signings, while also maintaining a degree of future planning.

If we continue to shop for a future that never seems to arrive then I think we can conclude that the strategy is not about winning, it's about efficiency.

I go on about Arsenal but they have gone through that growing cycle, and are now more targeted in their signings which are typically more finished, expensive players who move their team forward now.

This season will tell us a lot about what Ange is capable of, whether he has the ability to address the repeated concerns, but unless there is some awful dive in form he ain't going anywhere soon, though that does not preclude us considering our options in the summer.

He still needs time (and ideally another CB) to prove he is capable to overcome the bumps in the road and continue to progress us.

comment by Michael Edwards FC 2.0 loading…{Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 5 hours, 23 minutes ago
£315m spent and it hasn't even been 3 years for Ange
----------------------------------------------------------------------
good spin that 🤣

if it helps to sleep at night

comment by Mack (U6574)
posted 2 hours, 21 minutes ago
This is the list I think the op is referring to

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5923137/2024/11/18/premier-league-investment-owner-ranking/#


Just can’t see how Liverpool owners have incvested zero?



----------------------------------------------------------------------
book fiddlers FC 🤣