posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 50 seconds ago
I want him to support real people when it's in direct opposition of his belief in a fake God. Yes. Or he can do what many others have and support real people but still have religious beliefs. That's how many other religions are changing.
-------------------------------------------------------
, he kept the armband on and also said that he loves Jesus, so he 'supported' both no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Talk of him being suspended though...
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 48 seconds ago
I want him to support real people when it's in direct opposition of his belief in a fake God. Yes. Or he can do what many others have and support real people but still have religious beliefs. That's how many other religions are changing.
-------------------------------------------------------
, he kept the armband on and also said that he loves Jesus, so he 'supported' both no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No somebody said that was Guehi of Palace. Which I'm fine with.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 50 seconds ago
I want him to support real people when it's in direct opposition of his belief in a fake God. Yes. Or he can do what many others have and support real people but still have religious beliefs. That's how many other religions are changing.
-------------------------------------------------------
, he kept the armband on and also said that he loves Jesus, so he 'supported' both no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Talk of him being suspended though...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
which i don't agree with at all
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
Although it does feel a bit like when racists starting saying white lives matter too.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 14 seconds ago
Although it does feel a bit like when racists starting saying white lives matter too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't make me open up the Suarez debate again
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"I'd saying the truth is more likely they don't accept gay people as their religion tells them not to and by not promoting this point we're not telling people that it is unacceptable to have this view."
Have you ever met a religious person? I have, and they aren't as strict as you might think.
Maybe they don't understand it, choose to ignore it or wouldn't want a family member to be gay, but they aren't sat there watching TV saying every gay person who pops up is going to hell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have met plenty, they are all in laws, they are strict as feck, basically a cult as with just about all evangelicals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you convert then? or was the Mrs banished from the family?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, i rebelled, the missus no longer goes to church, 10+ years now. The family haven't accepted me really. Wouldn't let their kids be bridesmaids etc.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
Anyone should be allowed to choose if they want to wear the armband (same goes with the Poppy). But then it does also make you stand out as someone who is seemingly against LGBT rights which is very questionable in today's world, religion shouldn't be used as an excuse imo.
Would be interesting to see what his views are on wearing a shirt with a betting sponsor on it?
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 14 seconds ago
Although it does feel a bit like when racists starting saying white lives matter too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't make me open up the Suarez debate again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't have the hours for that. Due to collect the kids shortly
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 seconds ago
Anyone should be allowed to choose if they want to wear the armband (same goes with the Poppy). But then it does also make you stand out as someone who is seemingly against LGBT rights which is very questionable in today's world, religion shouldn't be used as an excuse imo.
Would be interesting to see what his views are on wearing a shirt with a betting sponsor on it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's worn a shirt with a betting sponsor on it in the past.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
All it's doing is promoting hatred toward the likes of Guehi and Morsy, with comments like "they don't believe combatting bigotry is more important that respecting an individual's right to believe that homosexuals should e.g. be executed and languish in hell for all eternity.".
---------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't promoting hate toward those individuals. My point was specifically about institutions such as football clubs and what they are doing about inclusivity. It may be uncomfortable to talk about what some people believe to be the appropriate punishment for homosexuals, but let's not pretend there's no tension between trying to make football an inclusive space and treating tolerance and homophobia with equal respect within that space. This isn't totalitarian wokeness - it's the application of the basic principle of classical (English) liberalism dating back to John Stewart Mill's harm principle.
But what it really comes down to is your belief that homophobia isn't a big deal these days - it doesn't have tangible impacts on people's lives or their access to / experience of football. It's just a bit of banter, like mocking the ginger community (although they famously don't dye or cover their hair to avoid being identified in the sport). If there's no need to ensure that gay people feel welcome and comfortable in football, naturally you don't feel concerned about clubs deferring to players who oppose equal rights for gay people.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"I'd saying the truth is more likely they don't accept gay people as their religion tells them not to and by not promoting this point we're not telling people that it is unacceptable to have this view."
Have you ever met a religious person? I have, and they aren't as strict as you might think.
Maybe they don't understand it, choose to ignore it or wouldn't want a family member to be gay, but they aren't sat there watching TV saying every gay person who pops up is going to hell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have met plenty, they are all in laws, they are strict as feck, basically a cult as with just about all evangelicals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you convert then? or was the Mrs banished from the family?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, i rebelled, the missus no longer goes to church, 10+ years now. The family haven't accepted me really. Wouldn't let their kids be bridesmaids etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds crap, my cousin is gay and has a an Egyptian Muslim partner, they're "friends" in Egypt.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"I'd saying the truth is more likely they don't accept gay people as their religion tells them not to and by not promoting this point we're not telling people that it is unacceptable to have this view."
Have you ever met a religious person? I have, and they aren't as strict as you might think.
Maybe they don't understand it, choose to ignore it or wouldn't want a family member to be gay, but they aren't sat there watching TV saying every gay person who pops up is going to hell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have met plenty, they are all in laws, they are strict as feck, basically a cult as with just about all evangelicals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you convert then? or was the Mrs banished from the family?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, i rebelled, the missus no longer goes to church, 10+ years now. The family haven't accepted me really. Wouldn't let their kids be bridesmaids etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My wife comes from a very religious family also. She's now went the complete opposite direction and hates religious people. Although to be fair she had many bad experiences with extremely wealthy priests in her country driving expensive cars and living in big houses after taking money from people in the name of religion.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 23 minutes ago
"I'd saying the truth is more likely they don't accept gay people as their religion tells them not to and by not promoting this point we're not telling people that it is unacceptable to have this view."
Have you ever met a religious person? I have, and they aren't as strict as you might think.
Maybe they don't understand it, choose to ignore it or wouldn't want a family member to be gay, but they aren't sat there watching TV saying every gay person who pops up is going to hell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just a massive generalisation.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 hour, 22 minutes ago
Also, Marc Guehi got told off for writing "I love Jesus" on his armband. Why can't he express his love for another man, yet at the same time get told to wear a LBGTQ+ armband???
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
He's worn a shirt with a betting sponsor on it in the past.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most devoutly religious people are somewhat subjective in the parts of their holy scripture they prioritise. It's not for me to lecture a Muslim about what they're supposed to believe, but I think we should be conscious that all faiths exist within a culture, and the culture exerts a strong impact on their interpretation of religion. E.g. in parts of East Africa, there is a prevalent adherence to FGM across both Muslim and Christian communities, which both consider to be part of their sacred traditions, yet which is not prescribed by either holy book.
Many believers of various religions continue to reinterpret / question / evolve their inherited beliefs. I don't think those of us who don't share those faiths have a duty to avoid scrutinising and discussing a believer's moral stances on some notional basis that some immutable ideas must be respected because they are attached to a deity.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 23 minutes ago
"I'd saying the truth is more likely they don't accept gay people as their religion tells them not to and by not promoting this point we're not telling people that it is unacceptable to have this view."
Have you ever met a religious person? I have, and they aren't as strict as you might think.
Maybe they don't understand it, choose to ignore it or wouldn't want a family member to be gay, but they aren't sat there watching TV saying every gay person who pops up is going to hell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just a massive generalisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course some are very strict, they may have a belief system. In the UK, many are pretty respectful.
I expect the pride community are more likely to get abuse from the political far right than religious folk.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
more likely to get abuse from the political far right than religious folk
------------------------------------------
You say that as if there isn't a significant overlap
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
The whole wearing rainbow armbands and kneeling at football is a load of rubbish for me. The players aren't allowed to wear any religious, political or personal messages.
Why should they then be forced to support a particular movement? Just ban it all and keep things simple.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Religion is fake and they cause of arguments, fighting and wars, politics can also lead to arguments, fighting and wars.
The other things are just promoting equality, not sure why anybody would be against that. Surely promoting equality shouldn't cause arguments fights and wars unless somebody doesn't want equality?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It just causes issues for me, such as what we are seeing with Guehi. He is obviously conflicted about wearing the armband due to his religious beliefs. Much easier to just ban it all and avoid this nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ban equality for real people because people believe in something that's fake? That would be going backwards as a society for me, when we've come a long way forwards.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fundamentally I agree with you, but that isn't actual equality. How can you have equality when you are saying that the right to express your religious views is less equal than your right to raise awareness of LGBTQ?
Just ban the whole lot and avoid all of this nonsense.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"I'd saying the truth is more likely they don't accept gay people as their religion tells them not to and by not promoting this point we're not telling people that it is unacceptable to have this view."
Have you ever met a religious person? I have, and they aren't as strict as you might think.
Maybe they don't understand it, choose to ignore it or wouldn't want a family member to be gay, but they aren't sat there watching TV saying every gay person who pops up is going to hell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have met plenty, they are all in laws, they are strict as feck, basically a cult as with just about all evangelicals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you convert then? or was the Mrs banished from the family?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Or Mr!
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
He's worn a shirt with a betting sponsor on it in the past.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most devoutly religious people are somewhat subjective in the parts of their holy scripture they prioritise. It's not for me to lecture a Muslim about what they're supposed to believe, but I think we should be conscious that all faiths exist within a culture, and the culture exerts a strong impact on their interpretation of religion. E.g. in parts of East Africa, there is a prevalent adherence to FGM across both Muslim and Christian communities, which both consider to be part of their sacred traditions, yet which is not prescribed by either holy book.
Many believers of various religions continue to reinterpret / question / evolve their inherited beliefs. I don't think those of us who don't share those faiths have a duty to avoid scrutinising and discussing a believer's moral stances on some notional basis that some immutable ideas must be respected because they are attached to a deity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just find it quite hypocritical. Citing 'religious reasons' when it transpires they can pick and choose what to do or not do.
He does have, IMO, every right not to wear the armband but perhaps he should have considered this before signing to play for a team that is behind this campaign IF he feels that strongly about it.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
perhaps he should have considered this before signing to play for a team that is behind this campaign
=====
He signed for them in 2021 when they were a League 1 club...
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
Fundamentally I agree with you, but that isn't actual equality. How can you have equality when you are saying that the right to express your religious views is less equal than your right to raise awareness of LGBTQ?
Just ban the whole lot and avoid all of this nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------
Competing rights will always bash up against each other. There's no world in which everyone is free to do whatever they want while everyone is protected from harm. Back to JS Mill's harm principle: there's a difference between a gay person's right to participate in football and a homophobic player's right to say he doesn't believe in gay rights. Gay inclusion doesn't impinge on the homophobe's right to participate in society. Homophobic speech does harm gay participation. In this instance 'equality' with Morsy's stance would be tolerating a club captain publicly refusing to endorse symbols opposing Islamophobia, i.e. opposing the equal participation of Muslims in society/football. How many of us would be comfortable with that stance? How many of us would be comfortable with our club backing down in the face of the player's deeply held and sincere Islamophobic convictions, in contradiction of its own inclusivity policies?
Sure, if it's one individual making a stand, that won't have a huge impact on its own - but we're still in a world where gay footballers are almost unheard of, where much nastier homophobia is part of our living memory, and where social conservativism is pushing back on the progress we've made.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 6 minutes ago
perhaps he should have considered this before signing to play for a team that is behind this campaign
=====
He signed for them in 2021 when they were a League 1 club...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12477593/rainbow-laces-premier-league-efl-and-premiership-rugby-kick-off-2021-activation-of-lgbtq-inclusion-in-sport-campaign
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
I just find it quite hypocritical. Citing 'religious reasons' when it transpires they can pick and choose what to do or not do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Diafol, I guess I partially addressed that in my comment above about religion being cultural. Every major religion says a bunch of different things, and most adherents place more emphasis on some parts than others. Perhaps that tells us that most devout human beings are too busy to pay scrupulous attention to everything their religion says, and ultimately their religious faith is filtered through culture. We can call the discrepancy between Morsy's stances hypocrisy. But for me it doesn't matter that much whether his motivation is profoundly religious or superficially. That's up to him. The bigger question is how the rest of the football community sees it.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 seconds ago
I just find it quite hypocritical. Citing 'religious reasons' when it transpires they can pick and choose what to do or not do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Diafol, I guess I partially addressed that in my comment above about religion being cultural. Every major religion says a bunch of different things, and most adherents place more emphasis on some parts than others. Perhaps that tells us that most devout human beings are too busy to pay scrupulous attention to everything their religion says, and ultimately their religious faith is filtered through culture. We can call the discrepancy between Morsy's stances hypocrisy. But for me it doesn't matter that much whether his motivation is profoundly religious or superficially. That's up to him. The bigger question is how the rest of the football community sees it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you did to be fair. Just wanted to offer my 2p worth!
I just think it's a shame that's all.
Sign in if you want to comment
Rainbow Laces
Page 4 of 7
6 | 7
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 50 seconds ago
I want him to support real people when it's in direct opposition of his belief in a fake God. Yes. Or he can do what many others have and support real people but still have religious beliefs. That's how many other religions are changing.
-------------------------------------------------------
, he kept the armband on and also said that he loves Jesus, so he 'supported' both no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Talk of him being suspended though...
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 48 seconds ago
I want him to support real people when it's in direct opposition of his belief in a fake God. Yes. Or he can do what many others have and support real people but still have religious beliefs. That's how many other religions are changing.
-------------------------------------------------------
, he kept the armband on and also said that he loves Jesus, so he 'supported' both no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No somebody said that was Guehi of Palace. Which I'm fine with.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 50 seconds ago
I want him to support real people when it's in direct opposition of his belief in a fake God. Yes. Or he can do what many others have and support real people but still have religious beliefs. That's how many other religions are changing.
-------------------------------------------------------
, he kept the armband on and also said that he loves Jesus, so he 'supported' both no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Talk of him being suspended though...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
which i don't agree with at all
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
Although it does feel a bit like when racists starting saying white lives matter too.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 14 seconds ago
Although it does feel a bit like when racists starting saying white lives matter too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't make me open up the Suarez debate again
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"I'd saying the truth is more likely they don't accept gay people as their religion tells them not to and by not promoting this point we're not telling people that it is unacceptable to have this view."
Have you ever met a religious person? I have, and they aren't as strict as you might think.
Maybe they don't understand it, choose to ignore it or wouldn't want a family member to be gay, but they aren't sat there watching TV saying every gay person who pops up is going to hell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have met plenty, they are all in laws, they are strict as feck, basically a cult as with just about all evangelicals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you convert then? or was the Mrs banished from the family?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, i rebelled, the missus no longer goes to church, 10+ years now. The family haven't accepted me really. Wouldn't let their kids be bridesmaids etc.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
Anyone should be allowed to choose if they want to wear the armband (same goes with the Poppy). But then it does also make you stand out as someone who is seemingly against LGBT rights which is very questionable in today's world, religion shouldn't be used as an excuse imo.
Would be interesting to see what his views are on wearing a shirt with a betting sponsor on it?
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 14 seconds ago
Although it does feel a bit like when racists starting saying white lives matter too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't make me open up the Suarez debate again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't have the hours for that. Due to collect the kids shortly
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 seconds ago
Anyone should be allowed to choose if they want to wear the armband (same goes with the Poppy). But then it does also make you stand out as someone who is seemingly against LGBT rights which is very questionable in today's world, religion shouldn't be used as an excuse imo.
Would be interesting to see what his views are on wearing a shirt with a betting sponsor on it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's worn a shirt with a betting sponsor on it in the past.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
All it's doing is promoting hatred toward the likes of Guehi and Morsy, with comments like "they don't believe combatting bigotry is more important that respecting an individual's right to believe that homosexuals should e.g. be executed and languish in hell for all eternity.".
---------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't promoting hate toward those individuals. My point was specifically about institutions such as football clubs and what they are doing about inclusivity. It may be uncomfortable to talk about what some people believe to be the appropriate punishment for homosexuals, but let's not pretend there's no tension between trying to make football an inclusive space and treating tolerance and homophobia with equal respect within that space. This isn't totalitarian wokeness - it's the application of the basic principle of classical (English) liberalism dating back to John Stewart Mill's harm principle.
But what it really comes down to is your belief that homophobia isn't a big deal these days - it doesn't have tangible impacts on people's lives or their access to / experience of football. It's just a bit of banter, like mocking the ginger community (although they famously don't dye or cover their hair to avoid being identified in the sport). If there's no need to ensure that gay people feel welcome and comfortable in football, naturally you don't feel concerned about clubs deferring to players who oppose equal rights for gay people.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"I'd saying the truth is more likely they don't accept gay people as their religion tells them not to and by not promoting this point we're not telling people that it is unacceptable to have this view."
Have you ever met a religious person? I have, and they aren't as strict as you might think.
Maybe they don't understand it, choose to ignore it or wouldn't want a family member to be gay, but they aren't sat there watching TV saying every gay person who pops up is going to hell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have met plenty, they are all in laws, they are strict as feck, basically a cult as with just about all evangelicals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you convert then? or was the Mrs banished from the family?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, i rebelled, the missus no longer goes to church, 10+ years now. The family haven't accepted me really. Wouldn't let their kids be bridesmaids etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds crap, my cousin is gay and has a an Egyptian Muslim partner, they're "friends" in Egypt.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"I'd saying the truth is more likely they don't accept gay people as their religion tells them not to and by not promoting this point we're not telling people that it is unacceptable to have this view."
Have you ever met a religious person? I have, and they aren't as strict as you might think.
Maybe they don't understand it, choose to ignore it or wouldn't want a family member to be gay, but they aren't sat there watching TV saying every gay person who pops up is going to hell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have met plenty, they are all in laws, they are strict as feck, basically a cult as with just about all evangelicals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you convert then? or was the Mrs banished from the family?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, i rebelled, the missus no longer goes to church, 10+ years now. The family haven't accepted me really. Wouldn't let their kids be bridesmaids etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My wife comes from a very religious family also. She's now went the complete opposite direction and hates religious people. Although to be fair she had many bad experiences with extremely wealthy priests in her country driving expensive cars and living in big houses after taking money from people in the name of religion.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 23 minutes ago
"I'd saying the truth is more likely they don't accept gay people as their religion tells them not to and by not promoting this point we're not telling people that it is unacceptable to have this view."
Have you ever met a religious person? I have, and they aren't as strict as you might think.
Maybe they don't understand it, choose to ignore it or wouldn't want a family member to be gay, but they aren't sat there watching TV saying every gay person who pops up is going to hell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just a massive generalisation.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 hour, 22 minutes ago
Also, Marc Guehi got told off for writing "I love Jesus" on his armband. Why can't he express his love for another man, yet at the same time get told to wear a LBGTQ+ armband???
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
He's worn a shirt with a betting sponsor on it in the past.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most devoutly religious people are somewhat subjective in the parts of their holy scripture they prioritise. It's not for me to lecture a Muslim about what they're supposed to believe, but I think we should be conscious that all faiths exist within a culture, and the culture exerts a strong impact on their interpretation of religion. E.g. in parts of East Africa, there is a prevalent adherence to FGM across both Muslim and Christian communities, which both consider to be part of their sacred traditions, yet which is not prescribed by either holy book.
Many believers of various religions continue to reinterpret / question / evolve their inherited beliefs. I don't think those of us who don't share those faiths have a duty to avoid scrutinising and discussing a believer's moral stances on some notional basis that some immutable ideas must be respected because they are attached to a deity.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 23 minutes ago
"I'd saying the truth is more likely they don't accept gay people as their religion tells them not to and by not promoting this point we're not telling people that it is unacceptable to have this view."
Have you ever met a religious person? I have, and they aren't as strict as you might think.
Maybe they don't understand it, choose to ignore it or wouldn't want a family member to be gay, but they aren't sat there watching TV saying every gay person who pops up is going to hell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just a massive generalisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course some are very strict, they may have a belief system. In the UK, many are pretty respectful.
I expect the pride community are more likely to get abuse from the political far right than religious folk.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
more likely to get abuse from the political far right than religious folk
------------------------------------------
You say that as if there isn't a significant overlap
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
The whole wearing rainbow armbands and kneeling at football is a load of rubbish for me. The players aren't allowed to wear any religious, political or personal messages.
Why should they then be forced to support a particular movement? Just ban it all and keep things simple.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Religion is fake and they cause of arguments, fighting and wars, politics can also lead to arguments, fighting and wars.
The other things are just promoting equality, not sure why anybody would be against that. Surely promoting equality shouldn't cause arguments fights and wars unless somebody doesn't want equality?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It just causes issues for me, such as what we are seeing with Guehi. He is obviously conflicted about wearing the armband due to his religious beliefs. Much easier to just ban it all and avoid this nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ban equality for real people because people believe in something that's fake? That would be going backwards as a society for me, when we've come a long way forwards.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fundamentally I agree with you, but that isn't actual equality. How can you have equality when you are saying that the right to express your religious views is less equal than your right to raise awareness of LGBTQ?
Just ban the whole lot and avoid all of this nonsense.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"I'd saying the truth is more likely they don't accept gay people as their religion tells them not to and by not promoting this point we're not telling people that it is unacceptable to have this view."
Have you ever met a religious person? I have, and they aren't as strict as you might think.
Maybe they don't understand it, choose to ignore it or wouldn't want a family member to be gay, but they aren't sat there watching TV saying every gay person who pops up is going to hell.
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I have met plenty, they are all in laws, they are strict as feck, basically a cult as with just about all evangelicals
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Did you convert then? or was the Mrs banished from the family?
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Or Mr!
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
He's worn a shirt with a betting sponsor on it in the past.
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Most devoutly religious people are somewhat subjective in the parts of their holy scripture they prioritise. It's not for me to lecture a Muslim about what they're supposed to believe, but I think we should be conscious that all faiths exist within a culture, and the culture exerts a strong impact on their interpretation of religion. E.g. in parts of East Africa, there is a prevalent adherence to FGM across both Muslim and Christian communities, which both consider to be part of their sacred traditions, yet which is not prescribed by either holy book.
Many believers of various religions continue to reinterpret / question / evolve their inherited beliefs. I don't think those of us who don't share those faiths have a duty to avoid scrutinising and discussing a believer's moral stances on some notional basis that some immutable ideas must be respected because they are attached to a deity.
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I just find it quite hypocritical. Citing 'religious reasons' when it transpires they can pick and choose what to do or not do.
He does have, IMO, every right not to wear the armband but perhaps he should have considered this before signing to play for a team that is behind this campaign IF he feels that strongly about it.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
perhaps he should have considered this before signing to play for a team that is behind this campaign
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He signed for them in 2021 when they were a League 1 club...
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
Fundamentally I agree with you, but that isn't actual equality. How can you have equality when you are saying that the right to express your religious views is less equal than your right to raise awareness of LGBTQ?
Just ban the whole lot and avoid all of this nonsense.
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Competing rights will always bash up against each other. There's no world in which everyone is free to do whatever they want while everyone is protected from harm. Back to JS Mill's harm principle: there's a difference between a gay person's right to participate in football and a homophobic player's right to say he doesn't believe in gay rights. Gay inclusion doesn't impinge on the homophobe's right to participate in society. Homophobic speech does harm gay participation. In this instance 'equality' with Morsy's stance would be tolerating a club captain publicly refusing to endorse symbols opposing Islamophobia, i.e. opposing the equal participation of Muslims in society/football. How many of us would be comfortable with that stance? How many of us would be comfortable with our club backing down in the face of the player's deeply held and sincere Islamophobic convictions, in contradiction of its own inclusivity policies?
Sure, if it's one individual making a stand, that won't have a huge impact on its own - but we're still in a world where gay footballers are almost unheard of, where much nastier homophobia is part of our living memory, and where social conservativism is pushing back on the progress we've made.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 6 minutes ago
perhaps he should have considered this before signing to play for a team that is behind this campaign
=====
He signed for them in 2021 when they were a League 1 club...
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https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12477593/rainbow-laces-premier-league-efl-and-premiership-rugby-kick-off-2021-activation-of-lgbtq-inclusion-in-sport-campaign
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
I just find it quite hypocritical. Citing 'religious reasons' when it transpires they can pick and choose what to do or not do.
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Diafol, I guess I partially addressed that in my comment above about religion being cultural. Every major religion says a bunch of different things, and most adherents place more emphasis on some parts than others. Perhaps that tells us that most devout human beings are too busy to pay scrupulous attention to everything their religion says, and ultimately their religious faith is filtered through culture. We can call the discrepancy between Morsy's stances hypocrisy. But for me it doesn't matter that much whether his motivation is profoundly religious or superficially. That's up to him. The bigger question is how the rest of the football community sees it.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 seconds ago
I just find it quite hypocritical. Citing 'religious reasons' when it transpires they can pick and choose what to do or not do.
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Diafol, I guess I partially addressed that in my comment above about religion being cultural. Every major religion says a bunch of different things, and most adherents place more emphasis on some parts than others. Perhaps that tells us that most devout human beings are too busy to pay scrupulous attention to everything their religion says, and ultimately their religious faith is filtered through culture. We can call the discrepancy between Morsy's stances hypocrisy. But for me it doesn't matter that much whether his motivation is profoundly religious or superficially. That's up to him. The bigger question is how the rest of the football community sees it.
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Yes, you did to be fair. Just wanted to offer my 2p worth!
I just think it's a shame that's all.
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