comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 minute ago
The Ipswich player thing about his religion is complete nonsense.

Dunno about the palace player, I do think people should have the choice and shouldnt be picked up on for refusing to wear it.
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All 3 players have carried out their actions based on religious beliefs.

Why do you believe their religious beliefs are “complete nonsense”? Just asking out of curiosity not malice.

comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by UmaThurmans_BigToe (U22864)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 3 minutes ago
I imagine players don't openly admit to being gay due to the crowd reaction rather than how they would be perceived by fellow players. Seems a fairly logical thought process to not come out as gay when you have to step into an arena 45 times a season with 30-70k morons singing and chanting.
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On the flip side playing devils advocate, could there just be no gay players in the PL? I mean as wild as that sounds it is an actual possibility.
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I would imagine that is highly unlikely
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Based on what? I think there are maybe 2 or 3 of thousands of footballers that have ever played in England that came out as gay even after they retired and don't face the madding crowds.

Pretty much every footballer I can think of has a wife or girlfriend too.

Maybe it just is the case that this tiny tiny proportion of society has no gay players?
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Of all the lads that I went to school with that played football, I can't think of a single one that has come out as gay. And that is across a 3 year age group.
Most of the lads that were obviously gay or who came out as gay later in life tended to be more interested in drama and art clubs rather than sports. Obviously a small sample size, but I'd expect the trend is common across the board. At least for my generation. Perhaps that is changing/will change as people become more accepting.

I'm not saying that there aren't any gay footballers at all, but I expect that the percentage is a lot lower than that in the general population.

comment by UmaThurmans_BigToe (U22864)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 minute ago
The Ipswich player thing about his religion is complete nonsense.

Dunno about the palace player, I do think people should have the choice and shouldnt be picked up on for refusing to wear it.
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All 3 players have carried out their actions based on religious beliefs.

Why do you believe their religious beliefs are “complete nonsense”? Just asking out of curiosity not malice.
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Didnt say that reason applied to all three just the Ipswich player

the same Ipswich player has been pictured promoting gambling companies plenty of times.

Does he get to pick and choose which parts of his religion are applicable , or does he just think being gay is worse than gambling?

Players: "We don't want to stand against homophobia because a religion we were born into has ingrained homophobia into us"

The FA: "Yeah, cool, no issue with that lads."

comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by UmaThurmans_BigToe (U22864)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 3 minutes ago
I imagine players don't openly admit to being gay due to the crowd reaction rather than how they would be perceived by fellow players. Seems a fairly logical thought process to not come out as gay when you have to step into an arena 45 times a season with 30-70k morons singing and chanting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On the flip side playing devils advocate, could there just be no gay players in the PL? I mean as wild as that sounds it is an actual possibility.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I would imagine that is highly unlikely
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on what? I think there are maybe 2 or 3 of thousands of footballers that have ever played in England that came out as gay even after they retired and don't face the madding crowds.

Pretty much every footballer I can think of has a wife or girlfriend too.

Maybe it just is the case that this tiny tiny proportion of society has no gay players?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Of all the lads that I went to school with that played football, I can't think of a single one that has come out as gay. And that is across a 3 year age group.
Most of the lads that were obviously gay or who came out as gay later in life tended to be more interested in drama and art clubs rather than sports. Obviously a small sample size, but I'd expect the trend is common across the board. At least for my generation. Perhaps that is changing/will change as people become more accepting.

I'm not saying that there aren't any gay footballers at all, but I expect that the percentage is a lot lower than that in the general population.
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Perhaps the culture of the footballing group at school meant they didn't feel comfortable joining in to play? That's the barrier I think they're trying to break down.

comment by Arnefield RAP (U22951)
posted 38 seconds ago
Players: "We don't want to stand against homophobia because a religion we were born into has ingrained homophobia into us"

The FA: "Yeah, cool, no issue with that lads."
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Who gets to be the ultimate arbiter?

I mean, if homosexuality is promoted so much maybe everyone ultimately becomes gay and mankind just dies out through lack of births and monkeys take over until such times as the monkeys learn advanced languages then they start promoting gay monkeys?

comment by Silver (U6112)

I mean, if homosexuality is promoted so much maybe everyone ultimately becomes gay and mankind just dies out through lack of births and monkeys take over until such times as the monkeys learn advanced languages then they start promoting gay monkeys?
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this is my big fear

Gay monkeys already exist.

Homosexuality has existed as long as humanity has. The population continues to grow.

comment by Arnefield RAP (U22951)
posted 3 minutes ago
Gay monkeys already exist.

Homosexuality has existed as long as humanity has. The population continues to grow.
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Indeed, all true, but we only started promoting homosexuality in the last few decades and it is still to catch on in the parts of the world that are growing so give it time.

In the meantime, I ask again, who should be the ultimate arbiter of what we are to think, and why? Especially, if that arbiter is the FA!

My view on this is fairly straightforward.

1) I really don't mind players not wanting to wear the armband and don't think they should be forced to in any way.

2) However, people complaining about this issue being in the news and saying we should "keep politics out of football" etc probably haven't bothered to think, even for a few seconds, about what it might actually be like to be a gay PL footballer. That football doesn't become "too woke" is far more important to them than somebody else's private suffering.

Homosexuality existed before it was being 'promoted' (should read as 'accepted'.

Personally I don't think the rainbow armbands, laces, tracksuits etc are the way forward. The only way to show acceptance in sport is for openly gay footballs to be embraced. It happens in women's football which continues to grow in popularity - I can only assume because the crowds are largely families rather than coked up meat heads.

Whilst I applaud any effort to promote inclusion it also hasn't escaped my attention that a lot of what is happening is just paying lip service to the issue. If they truly wanted to be inclusive, no matter what, then they'd only sign players who are comfortable in wearing clothing etc that aligns with these kind of campaigns.

Always feel conflicted on this. On the one hand, I do t think players should be compelled to wear things they don’t want to.

On the other hand, any player using their religion as an excuse for not supporting a gay rights cause should have their beliefs roundly condemned as being backwards. Frankly, they should get better beliefs.

comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 2 minutes ago
Whilst I applaud any effort to promote inclusion it also hasn't escaped my attention that a lot of what is happening is just paying lip service to the issue. If they truly wanted to be inclusive, no matter what, then they'd only sign players who are comfortable in wearing clothing etc that aligns with these kind of campaigns.
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Then if, as seems, there are substantial numbers not wanting to wear it for religious reasons wouldn't that be religious discrimination?

Just as it would be if the FA said anything other than 'we respect your decision' and left it at that.

comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 4 minutes ago
Always feel conflicted on this. On the one hand, I do t think players should be compelled to wear things they don’t want to.

On the other hand, any player using their religion as an excuse for not supporting a gay rights cause should have their beliefs roundly condemned as being backwards. Frankly, they should get better beliefs.
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I ask again, who gets to decide what the 'correct' beliefs are and why should they?

It’s all a bit of a non issue, but it does open up a wider conversation about why we tolerate prejudice in the name of religion, in this day and age.

comment by Arnefield RAP (U22951)
posted 48 minutes ago
Players: "We don't want to stand against homophobia because a religion we were born into has ingrained homophobia into us"

The FA: "Yeah, cool, no issue with that lads."
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What’s worse is that it’s against the rules to use religious messaging, but Guehi has got away with it.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
It’s all a bit of a non issue, but it does open up a wider conversation about why we tolerate prejudice in the name of religion, in this day and age.
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at the same time, failing to support something does not equate to being against it.

comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Arnefield RAP (U22951)
posted 48 minutes ago
Players: "We don't want to stand against homophobia because a religion we were born into has ingrained homophobia into us"

The FA: "Yeah, cool, no issue with that lads."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s worse is that it’s against the rules to use religious messaging, but Guehi has got away with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But against the LAW to discriminate on religion so he still wins.

comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Arnefield RAP (U22951)
posted 48 minutes ago
Players: "We don't want to stand against homophobia because a religion we were born into has ingrained homophobia into us"

The FA: "Yeah, cool, no issue with that lads."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s worse is that it’s against the rules to use religious messaging, but Guehi has got away with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But against the LAW to discriminate on religion so he still wins.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not against the law to exclude religious messaging from the workplace.

comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Arnefield RAP (U22951)
posted 48 minutes ago
Players: "We don't want to stand against homophobia because a religion we were born into has ingrained homophobia into us"

The FA: "Yeah, cool, no issue with that lads."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s worse is that it’s against the rules to use religious messaging, but Guehi has got away with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't help noticing that both Gueye and Guehi have now been involved in controversies over the rainbow symbol.

comment by Clockwork Red: Rúben's Train (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Arnefield RAP (U22951)
posted 48 minutes ago
Players: "We don't want to stand against homophobia because a religion we were born into has ingrained homophobia into us"

The FA: "Yeah, cool, no issue with that lads."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s worse is that it’s against the rules to use religious messaging, but Guehi has got away with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't help noticing that both Gueye and Guehi have now been involved in controversies over the rainbow symbol.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe the lady doth protest too much due to nominative determinism?

comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
It’s all a bit of a non issue, but it does open up a wider conversation about why we tolerate prejudice in the name of religion, in this day and age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
at the same time, failing to support something does not equate to being against it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said - too much of society is being polarised by this kind of mislabelling. What next, employees are asked to promote a religion, a political party?

comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Arnefield RAP (U22951)
posted 48 minutes ago
Players: "We don't want to stand against homophobia because a religion we were born into has ingrained homophobia into us"

The FA: "Yeah, cool, no issue with that lads."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s worse is that it’s against the rules to use religious messaging, but Guehi has got away with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But against the LAW to discriminate on religion so he still wins.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not against the law to exclude religious messaging from the workplace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
It’s all a bit of a non issue, but it does open up a wider conversation about why we tolerate prejudice in the name of religion, in this day and age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
at the same time, failing to support something does not equate to being against it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it fairly clearly suggests that’s the case, though.