batman
"I think you need to read what I said again. I said in my opinion he is not a racist despite having made a racist comment (if he did make it). I didn't say he can't be labelled a racist, I just said I myself am not labelling him a racist. People say stupid things when they are angry, I am sure you have done likewise "

I was trying (and failing so it would seem) to inject some humour into the thread.


"I think you need to brush up on American history. Black people were hundreds of years we considered an inferior race and hated for it,"
And here in Britain the indiginous population have never been conquered, dominated, enslaved, or browbeaten have we

A touch of anti British bias here at all ???

Bubbles...........

You missed don tottenham´s article on Harry bringing the title to WHL.................shame on you!

OK - I'll keep it simple but it's the same question I asked before. I understand THAT you think racism is worse than other forms of abuse. I'm asking WHY is racism worse than other forms of abuse?

I'm not excusing it - I am anti all forms of abuse.

Why is racism worse than sexism?

Is it not equally “outmoded”, “outdated” and ridiculous? Were women not treated as second class citizens? Denied rights? Physically abused?

Is Lenny Henry calling fellow black people 'brothers' not highlighting the fact that they are black, and therefore racist

He is identifying himself as 'one of them' which is blinking stupid and he makes it perfectly clear that he's not 'one of us white people' . . . . he's a racist rsole that gets away with is for one reason

I wonder what Dawn French thinks . . . . that's why I'm confused

Why is racism worse than sexism?
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I can´t think of an argument to distinguish between the two to be honest. I suppose from a historical point of view one could argue that racism has manifested itself in a far more violent way that sexism,but in theory they are equally unacceptable.

Afters biggish.

I suppose from a historical point of view one could argue that racism has manifested itself in a far more violent way that sexism
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I wonder if the women throughout the ages from all creeds and colours would agree with that statement.

I somehow doubt it

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

Biggish

I'll look for it now

If the only racist that had ever existed was that black people couldn’t sit on a bus then would that make racism less wrong? Would that make it less offensive if JT had indeed called Ferdinand something racist?
Racism and sexism and gingerism are all equal!
If they aren’t then there is something wrong with the understanding of the terms!

this is ridiculous,

Look if you tell a joke and have to tell the audience that it involves a black bloke its probably going to be a Jim Davidson kind of a joke... Involving you doing a rasta voice and probably reference to him having a large c@ck. Not very clever humour and a bit racist. But its just a tease and a bit of fun and we are all adults, hey?

However if you wanted to attract the attention of a black stranger in the street going about your everyday business and said :'Oi, black bloke, move your car", or whatever, then that is very racist imo.

'Oi, black bloke, move your car", or whatever, then that is very racist imo.
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Yes because you would say excuse me sir,can you please mark your car.

but that is different from the football match example in every way

'Oi, black bloke, move your car", or whatever, then that is very racist imo.
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Sorry I have a sick sense of humour

I rated this article 5 purely for the thought-provoking debate it inspired. I'll admit I found myself agreeing with various people and then changing my mind when someone else countered their points with equally interesting arguments.

Quite clear, then, that there isn't an accepted 'definition' of what racism is and that different people view it differently. I myself couldn't even begin to explain what I'd view it as, as I would constantly be arguing and contradicting myself.

I do agree, though, that the term 'racist' is bandied about far too often to be safe and that kids in particular seem to overuse it because of what they hear from the rest of society. Kids I teach jokingly call me a racist when I tell them off or keep them for a detention or do t allow them to do something, but it's never serious. However, the mere fact that they are joking with it and throwing the term out so lightly is a cause for concern. Perhaps it is a topic I will look to cover one half-term in the form of a debate or some such in order to gauge their opinions and hopefully educate them in some small way.

As for sexism - yes, I believe it is just as bad as there is still the belief that one person is superior to another because of something about themselves that they cannot change, that is just who they are. But then that could be because I've been on the receiving end of sexist comments and inherent views myself. Ironing and kitchens spring to mind. As well as other serious innate views that I am not as worthy of respect because I am a woman (sadly enough from many of the teenage boys I teach).

Well done though Biggish, excellent thought- provoking article. One of few that hasn't descended into childish WUMing and name-calling.

Well thanks Blueblood..........

This whole JT incident caused me to flashback to the two incidents and it left me thinking about so many complexities around the issue of racism.

I imagine if you do use it as a main topic for class room debate you will need to structure it very carefully and ensure you have fixed parameters in place that can not be broken. Otherwise the extreme members of the The PC brigade might be on your case.

I don´t want to read a headline in the Daily Mail saying teacher sacked for diluting the racism issue.

But if it can be done I think it can only be beneficial for the class you teach. It is a complex issue when you drill down into it.

Of course, it will have to be handled very carefully so people (or the pupils) don't think I'm trying to force opinions on them or anything, which I wouldn't try to do. The school I teach in is very multicultural anyway so it doesn't tend to be a huge problem, but that makes it even more of an interesting topic to look to look at through their own experiences and opinions. All about giving them questions to provoke deeper thinking, and quite often you choose a controversial topic to do so.

In a similar way I'll be looking at issues of sexism in 'Of Mice and Men' with my Year 10s next week and getting them to look past surface opinions and values to see what is really going on. Those lessons where you really see them grown in their opinions and beliefs are often the most satisfying. Also proves time and again how deeply these kids can and do think and feel, and how often they can astound you with it.

Sounds good. It´s a great story by Steinbeck and I loved the film with Malkovich.

You know there is an actor in that film called John Terry right?

Redblack
The trouble is if it’s Jim Davidson playing on racial stereotypes then people say it is racist, because he is white. Whereas when Lenny Henry plays on racial stereotypes it isn’t racist because he is black.
I think that is the point being made.
Surely if playing on racial stereotypes is racist then it is racist for all to do it… if it isn’t then you are having one rule for whites and one for blacks… that is racist!
The point you have made is that for a bit of fun you can play on racial stereotypes and it is socially acceptable, and not offensive – whereas in other scenarios it isn’t. The conclusion is then that the words themselves are not racist, and it is all about context. Or the words are always racist but sometimes racism is socially acceptable. Agreed?

Haha, no, I didn't. Truth be told, I've never read or studied OMaM. I did 'To Kill a Mockingbird' in school and am a NQT now, so it should be interesting. As I said, many of my pupils in each year have an innate superiority complex over female figures, largely because of their upbringing and cultural backgrounds, as well as home lives, so it should be interesting (hopefully) watching these boys' opinions grow. If not...well, then I've failed in the whole point of the module and they won't get great grades on the exam question.

Excelent article biggish, really thought provoking, many creeds and colours on here, all debating, nobody trying to hijack the thread and act all superior (Which normally happens on here when this topic raises its head), condescention of the highest order, telling other posters that they "Just dont understand".

We seem to have muddled to a sort of agreement that their are no real racist words, just the context in which they are used, and that gingerism must stop

The sad part about the sexism side of things is that certain people in certain cultures still believe that beating your wife/daughter is as natural as breathing

A big 5 stars from me biggish, and "ya boo sucks to you" to those who gave it a 1 star

Gingerism is fine with me

Ageism is fine with me, I know the apprentices at work refer to me as that old git, I used to do the same to my senior engineers.

It's just a matter of time

Indeed, opinions are like cheese.

Mature with age. They may also grow a bit of mold, get a bit malodorous and offensive, but that's neither here nor there!

Or is that wine?

The point you have made is that for a bit of fun you can play on racial stereotypes and it is socially acceptable, and not offensive – whereas in other scenarios it isn’t.
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Actually the point I was (trying to) make is that some people think that stereotyping and racism is acceptable in the name of entertainment but not in 'real' situations. I say they are wrong, it shouldn't be tolerated or acceptable, anywhere. These people can be helped, but need educating. Unfortunately there are those also who think racism is acceptable in all walks of life. These people probably vote BNP. There is no helping them.

As for Lenny Henry, I'm not aware of the racist material he allegedly uses so I cant comment on his state of mind, specifically. Bur black, white or yellow, we are all capable of being racist.

black, white or yellow, we are all capable of being racist.
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then why do people make such a humongous deal out of it, when they are fully aware that they have at some time or another done likewise

"But its just a tease and a bit of fun and we are all adults, hey?"

That seemed to be suggesting it was OK!

If it isn't ever acceptable then I wonder how much comedy would ever actually be allowed on TV!
I don't think Lenny Henry is a racist - but I do think he plays on racial stereotypes... racial stereotypes do not necessarily equal racism - it is about context.

If you deem mentioning race racist or playing on stereotypes racist then what isn't racist?


I love the fact the liberal enlightened anti-racist views go hand in hand with the "these people probably vote BNP".... that's a huge genralisation and perhaps a stereotype? Also I love the "these people can be helped" line - educate them... or should that be indoctrinate them? Make them see the truth... make them see the light... make them see the will of the people...

It's a slippery road to go down!


But that is a seperate issue I suppose.