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Any particular reason Paisley was only the manager for 9 years? and why only pick 9 years of Fergie's reign, when you're using Paisley's entire tenure, you should use Fergie's alike, surely?

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No, that isn't how it should work at all. you can't use a short period of time and extrapolate and make assumptions about how many he 'might' have won in a similar time. Even if he won, say 2 trophies a season, who is to say how many he'd have won over 26 years. Maybe he'd have had a barren spell, maybe he wouldn't. The fact is, no one knows. Fergie is considered the best by some/most purely because he has been consistently successful for almost 3 decades. That doesn't necessarily make those people right, but to say that because Paisley won trophies for 9 years makes him categorically better is a complete fallacy.

"Any particular reason Paisley was only the manager for 9 years?"

I'm pretty sure he retired

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Had he not retired, could you categorically state he'd have continued winning for another x amount of years?

since when is 9 years 'a short period of time'

FFS that's absurd. It makes him one of the longest serving managers around.

In the context of the discussion it is a short period of time in that it was a 3rd of the person he is being compared to. Like I have said multiple times, I am not saying that either is better, I'm saying that it is all but impossible to categorically state that one of them was better than the other...

In short, United fans are always likely to say SAF, while Liverpool fans are going to say Paisley. Coupled with the fact that most people in a position to judge both are likely to dislike both clubs if they were around in a time of Liverpool/United dominance, and we'll likely never have any way to determine it as fact one way or the other.

fair dos Jay

just a bit of debate and banter at the end of the day

Shankly, Paisley, Busby, Clough, Stein, Ferguson.

That's the correct order for the greatest British managers. Fergie in at 5.

That is 'an' order of managers, not necessarily the correct one It is all a matter of opinion at the end of the day. Can't disagree with the 5 you've chosen though.

I dunno if it's just because my generation have only seen Fergie at United but it's amazed me the number of people I've seen who have said he's the best ever yet they've never heard of the likes of Paisley, Clough etc.

I'm not saying Fergie isn't better than them and at the end of the day it's opinion but i find it odd how they can make that statement when they don't know who the other top managers were.

In my opinion Ferguson is the greatest manager the game has ever seen.

In Paisley's 9 years at the club, he won the league 6 times, the European Cup 3 times, The UEFA Cup once, The Super Cup once, and the League Cup 3 times.

In Ferguson's first 9 years at United, he won the League 3 times, FA Cup 3 times, League Cup once, Cup Winners Cup once, and Super Cup once.

Over that time period, taking just those successes into consideration, Paisley clearly has a better trophy haul.

But it is silly to take those stats in isolation. Paisley took over a Liverpool side that were right at the top of the game, having won the league and finished runners-up three times in the previous 4 years, and were also the holders of the FA Cup at the time of his appointment. Liverpool were, at the time of Paisley's appointment, one of the best, if not the best team in England. How much of Paisley's success can be attributed to the work of Shankly before him, who himself had been at the club and built an ethos and philosphy over a period of 15 years? Shankly's input in building Liverpool can not be denied or underestimated.

Ferguson took over a club in 1986 that had not won the league for 20 years and during that time had finished runners up once. A lot more work was needed to turn the club into title winners than it was at Liverpool when Paisley took over. Also, for the first 5 years of Ferguson's tenure, English clubs were banned from Europe, and as a result fell behind the other European teams in terms of competing in European competition when the ban was lifted. Yet Ferguson was still able to guide United to a European trophy (Cup Winners Cup) in the first season English clubs were allowed back in Europe.

Also the European cup was a very different competition back in Paisley's days. In the 10 seasons between 1970-71 and 1979-1980, 4 clubs won the European cup - Ajax won it three times in succession, Bayern three times in succession, Liverpool twice in succession and Forest twice in succession. In the 10 years between 1990-91 and 2000, 9 teams won the competition, and no team has retained the cup from 1990 up to the present day.

Purely hypothetical, but it would have been interesting to see how Paisley would have faired in Scotland, managing a club other than Rangers and Celtic. Ferguson's achievements at Aberdeen were truly remarkable. In 8 years, he was able to usurp the dominant Glasgow clubs and win 9 trophies, including a Cup Winners Cup victory over Real Madrid.

I don't say this to try and belittle Bob Paisley - truly one of the games greatest and undoubtedly most successful managers the game has ever seen. But Ferguson is better. Again in my opinion, and that's all this kind of discussion can only ever be - an opinion.

when we're all 80 we'll be telling the wee nippers that their hero is nothing compared to Messi and this new kid is not fit to lace his boots.

Figured out Fergie's most successful 9 year period... 13 trophies

Paisley>Fergie

*use the graph at bottom( http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22450100

I don't know why you are arguing Paisley, Clough and Ferguson are great British managers who were great for their clubs

Jonjo - Some people are not proper students of the game and think football was invented in the 1990s.

What Clough did at Derby and Forest was remarkable. Do you think another manager could take a League 2 club to Champions of England, then do it again at another club but go one better and win the European Cup with them?

That's true greatness!

Can't disagree with the 5 you've chosen though.

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He did chose 6, although I can't quite work out why he listed those, in his words in the "correct order", with Ferguson sixth, and then state that Ferguson is "in at 5" !!

If Ferguson took a small club like Everton or Spurs to a title then I'd have to rethink my opinion.

Looks like I'm just as much a fool for not being able to count

TKT, were Aberdeen not a 'small' club?

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pffft that's the sweaty league

that's like winning a title in Sweden

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if we go on total trophies won, its Fergie, if we go pro rate its DiMatteo. Under neither is it Paisley.