comment by itsonlyagame - red cards are unfair (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
Though, i am still one of those anachronistic chaps that believes triumphing in International football is harder than club football.
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Greece, Denmark? I'd be tempted to say Italy in '82. Bigger stage, bigger opponents, perfect execution (discounting the first group round that is).


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In Intl continental competitions it is easier but I don't think it can get any harder than winning the world cup! So much has to be just perfect for that to happen. Look at Spain in the last word cup, head and shoulders above every other team in the tournament in terms of quality and depth but they didn't have it easy did they?

comment by itsonlyagame - red cards are unfair (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
Though, i am still one of those anachronistic chaps that believes triumphing in International football is harder than club football.
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Greece, Denmark? I'd be tempted to say Italy in '82. Bigger stage, bigger opponents, perfect execution (discounting the first group round that is).


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You are preaching to the choir - i think?

It is just i know i am usually in a minority when i tell most people that winning the CL is demonstrably easier than the WC or the Euros.

The sheer pressure of a world tournament, it is quadrennial, the hopes of a nation, the eye of the world...there is nothing like it. The CL is merely an aperitif to it.

I am in no way denigrating the CL. It is a wonderful tournament, damn difficult to win, very high standard of football but it is relatively smaller potatoes.

The world cup yes, but the Euros no.

ioag

From the link you posted
"The dividions between these teams are deeper and more profound than almost any other rift in football. The sense of injustice which pervades the supporters of Athletico is not only a raw wound but a justifiable pain. Living in Carabanchel, the area of Madrid in which Atletico is based, it is easy to see why this emnity exists. However, it comes out in high definition colour when you then go to the Bernebeu and visit the bars around the stadium.

Amongst the flags of Real Madrid there are the pictures of General Franco. The fascist dictator who made Carabanchel a battle ground, turned it into a prison area and, after the civil war was won, ensured that referees knew the price of impartiality in a fascist state. Real Madrid is and was the team of Franco. Real Madrid, and it has to be said Barcelona (and what a conundrum of a relationship that is), takes the money, everyone else gets the crumbs, a Franco legacy and make no mistake about it.

So this final, after an historic league win, means more to Atletico than most of us can possibly imagine. If you believe in fair play, if you believe in sportsmanship and if you believe in and love the game of football then you and I will be shouting for Atletico. If you believe in corruption, money before art, power before skill and living off the suffering of others, then you will support Real."

If we didn't have the conversation we had the other day, I would have actually believed that pile of sanctimonious garbage. How many Spaniards actually believe that?

Living in Carabanchel, the area of Madrid in which Atletico is based,

.........................

Carabanchel is where my Dad was brought up and my Nan lived...
She lived on Calle Radio

its a stone throw away from the Calderon

Atleti is definitely the club of the working class industrial south side of madrid....

but its no left wing club either trust me !

My Nan was from Valladolid province and she supported Real Madrid. My Grandad was from Toledo province, he was an Atleti fan

My Dad's family is split...4 of the siblings support atleti, 2 support Real

My cousins are split also between the two

comment by pekster11 (U6618)
posted 3 minutes ago
Atleti is definitely the club of the working class industrial south side of madrid....

but its no left wing club either trust me !

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My conversation with ioag taught me that. I was actually shocked to realize it was Franco's first club before he changed to Madrid because of the glory hunter he was.

The Champions League is much harder to win than the World Cup for me because it is played over two legs and because the games are often sandwiched in between important league and Cup games too.

Having said that, the World Cup is somewhat rigged a bit in that the entire draw is determined beforehand- but would it lead to conspiracy conducting an hour draw before each new knockout round, as well as the logistical problems in planning?

That excerpt is full of half-truths and downright lies.

For starters, the Calderon isn't in Carabanchel at all, it's in Arganzuela, where I actually lived a few years. The boundary between the two couldn't be more clearly marked - it's the Manzanares River ffs!

comment by pekster11 (U6618)
posted 2 minutes ago
My Nan was from Valladolid province and she supported Real Madrid. My Grandad was from Toledo province, he was an Atleti fan

My Dad's family is split...4 of the siblings support atleti, 2 support Real

My cousins are split also between the two
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It is actually sad that due to the pathetic nature of local football here, most people really don't care about it at all. My whole family supports the same club (those who care about local footie anyway) but that is mainly due to tribal alliances more than anything. The only two clubs here with anything as much as a fanbase, are very much tribal clubs.

When it comes to English footie, my mum is a Pool fan, my dad a Chelsea fan, two bros are United fans and the other a Chelsea fan. I actually started supporting Arsenal just so I could be a rebel.

comment by ☺ Wumpatröl - We are going to Wembley, We are going to Wembley (U5046)
posted 18 minutes ago
ioag

From the link you posted
"The dividions between these teams are deeper and more profound than almost any other rift in football. The sense of injustice which pervades the supporters of Athletico is not only a raw wound but a justifiable pain. Living in Carabanchel, the area of Madrid in which Atletico is based, it is easy to see why this emnity exists. However, it comes out in high definition colour when you then go to the Bernebeu and visit the bars around the stadium.

Amongst the flags of Real Madrid there are the pictures of General Franco. The fascist dictator who made Carabanchel a battle ground, turned it into a prison area and, after the civil war was won, ensured that referees knew the price of impartiality in a fascist state. Real Madrid is and was the team of Franco. Real Madrid, and it has to be said Barcelona (and what a conundrum of a relationship that is), takes the money, everyone else gets the crumbs, a Franco legacy and make no mistake about it.

So this final, after an historic league win, means more to Atletico than most of us can possibly imagine. If you believe in fair play, if you believe in sportsmanship and if you believe in and love the game of football then you and I will be shouting for Atletico. If you believe in corruption, money before art, power before skill and living off the suffering of others, then you will support Real."

If we didn't have the conversation we had the other day, I would have actually believed that pile of sanctimonious garbage. How many Spaniards actually believe that?
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Wump, I just posted a reply to that post. Care to take a look?

Well and truly put in his place that one. Don't wait for a reply though. Funny enough don't wait for a reply to your comment on the Tiki Taka thread. I have noticed the futility of actually discussing matters with people on the net. Once their minds are set on some preconceptions, there is just no getting from there regardless of any evidence you may give them.

People always complain that Tiki Taka is boring but when you point out the fact it is that way because opposition teams just go into matches with one objective which is to pack the bus and pounce on the counter which leads to a more conservative form of tiki taka being employed, they never reply to that and most likely disappear from the thread altogether. That is actually true for most "debates." You provide someone with evidence to counter their misconception, and they just disappear from the thread only to see them making the same comments as before a few weeks later. It's like your conversation with them never existed! Wow, did this turn into a rant?

I know what you mean Wump, some people don't really know what a debate actually involves. It's like those crazy Cazorla fanboys you find out there.

It's like those crazy Cazorla fanboys you find out there.
===

Indeed

comment by itsonlyagame - red cards are unfair (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
I know what you mean Wump, some people don't really know what a debate actually involves. It's like those crazy Cazorla fanboys you find out there.
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Benzema fanboys are actually the worst.

Costa starting?

Not surprising to me in the slightest. Confident?

That's horse placenta for you What about Turan. He was brilliant the last time they played you in the league.

Nothing confirmed afaik, but it seems Turan's not starting, Raul García is instead.

Not confident Henrik, expectant. Hope to enjoy it no matter who wins. I'll be off to the pub about half an hour before kickoff.

But he is on the bench at least right? I feel this game will be a real cracker. Last year's final was brilliant too!

"no matter who wins"

Good luck ioag. I won't celebrate as much if Atleti win because of you and Peks