comment by Marcelino- Bruno for Spain (U6171)
posted 2 minutes ago
Good article.

Time the BNP are banned after that disgusting tweet from their racist leader.
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What did he tweet?

Nick Griffin has been tossing himself off all day on Twitter.

Honest I'd say it would be extremely difficult but but not impossible, considering what he actually achieved and how far he would go he is an extremely determined and resourceful individual and I would say it was.

My word just seen his previous tweets before Nelson Mandela died.

The guy is clearly a racist moron

comment by Blackbeards Delight (U17561)
posted 1 minute ago
Honest I'd say it would be extremely difficult but but not impossible, considering what he actually achieved and how far he would go he is an extremely determined and resourceful individual and I would say it was.
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If he was determined to use violence to cause deaths he'd have killed a lot more of his "enemies" when he became president.

A lawyer who fought to free his people from oppressive government. Most of the violence and bombings occurred while he was a top political prisoner and had little access to the outside world.

It depends how you look at it, on the one hand, he was able to secure peace in his country, on the other hand, he was advocating violence and even refused to renounce it in return for his freedom.

It's also easy to forget that the times were a lot different back then, with the anc being heavily linked to communism, which if you look back historically at the oppression that communism perpetrated, the ruling elite were right to be scared to some degree.

As figurehead for his movement, he was in a unique position to influence millions, you have to ask yourself, despite how bad the south african government of the time reacted, did the ANCs actions bring about the change necessary or did it entrench a belief in the government that they should be fought at all costs and make the struggle for freedom last another 30 years?

Just to be clear, I do think Mandela was a force for good but I always wonder how things might be if people engaged in non-violent struggle? Violence always ends up with innocents on both sides being caught up between the regime and the ideology of the oppressed, with both sides trying to justify something that is inherently wrong.

Marcelino, not sure I agree on banning the bnp, banning organisations tends to push them underground where they're more likely to do clandestine things, personally I'd prefer we engage morons like the bnp leader and try to make them see the error of their ways through dialogue rather than oppression.

Honest, I wonder if 27 years in prison and a lot of deaths will mellow a persons attitude for revenge? It is testament to the man that he did change his attitude, South Africa could so easily have ended up like zimbabwe.

comment by Reggie (U13390)

posted 2 minutes ago

It depends how you look at it, on the one hand, he was able to secure peace in his country, on the other hand, he was advocating violence and even refused to renounce it in return for his freedom.
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He would've been seen as "weak" by his fellow freedom fighters if he didn't support every option.

At the end it worked and he unified the country.

comment by Reggie (U13390)
posted 2 minutes ago
Honest, I wonder if 27 years in prison and a lot of deaths will mellow a persons attitude for revenge? It is testament to the man that he did change his attitude, South Africa could so easily have ended up like zimbabwe.
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27 years in prison for fighting for freedom would cause more anger to the normal human being. SA would've been much worse than Zimbabwe had it not been for him.

It's the reason both whites, blacks and all races love him. The black majority could've easily turned around and started persecuting the white minority.

I don't think it necessarily does cause anger though, of course initially I think it did, however I think the turn of history has played a big part in changing his thinking but I wonder if the initial process of arming themselves and carrying out attacks did as much harm as it did good, could they have affected change sooner if they hadn't used violence, unfortunately, we'll never know.

Op - what a ridiculous statement, if you're not from RSA you can't make judgment?! What utter tosh of the highest order.

Who is condemning? Personally I think he was a wonderful an but think the eulogising needs some balanced perspective, the man had good intentions but used some terrible means.

comment by Arouna Jagielka oooh I wanna take ya, Heitinga Nikica come on pretty mama (U1308)
posted 11 hours, 39 minutes ago
comment by Blackbeards Delight (U17561)
posted 53 seconds ago
The fool they get to carry out the bombing may get convicted but the mastermind, funder and co conspirators are not any less responsible.

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I dont want to use other 'leaders' as an example here. Tony Blair is about the least evil who can be blamed for sending troups on a false war.

He has the blood of innocents on his hands, in the same way mandela does for teh ANC attacks.
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Why did the ANC attack anyone? Think very carefully before you respond

Firstly Mandela only became president of South Africa in 1991, a year after being released. Some claim to have read his book but fail to point out the many lines in the book that talk about how his visits were monitored and that some pieces of his letters would be cut off if the apartheid government was uncomfortable with them.
I suspect most of the people that call Mandela a terrorists are those white saffers that ran away from SA fearing for their lives and are still bitter that the country still stands without white rule.
You can bring whatever evidence you want about bombings that happened but it's water of a ducks back compared to what black saffers went through.

NM is the greatest leader this world will ever see and his legacy won't be affected by a few ignorant people who know absolutely nothing about oppression.

I lived in SA for 5 years and I was amazed by the diversity of that country. The people of SA, black and white love that man, who are you sitting in the United Kingdom to think you have a bigger right to pronounce on this mans stature.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

It's funny how no one is talking about the oppression, only the response to it.

People were saying mandela was a leader of the ANC giving instructions from prison which is complete nonsense as he wasn't the president until he was released from prison.

You mention 3 year olds of innocent mothers but say absolutely nothing about the thousands killed by whites.

Exactly MUD

How would they react to being killed, made slaves, segregated, uneducated and with no land in their own country?

never met the man

condolences to his family

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

Just Shoot you clearly don't know what you talking about. The Mkhonto wesizwe bombed certain areas of SA while Mandela was in jail in a maximum security prison.
You also say his way of making his country better was by these bombings which he had nothing to do with as he was in prison and no he was not the leader of the anc or Mkhonto wesizwe. You clearly don't even know what you are pronouncing on. The ANC won over the apartheid Government by getting the world to listen and SA starting being pressured to abolish apartheid by sanctions in sport, trade etc etc.

Oliver Tambo was canvassing the world with Thabo Mbeki to get the world to listen.

You are just trying to find anything to discredit a truly great man. He's a colossus and you'll never know anyone better in your life time, just accept it.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

I don't need to know you to point out that you are talking absolute nonsense about something you clearly know nothing about.

Ok then tell me what methods he used that are unsavory?

good grief, it was mandela who originally proposed the campaign of violence, he set the wheels in motion for a stand off with the government that lasted for 27 years, NO ONE will ever know whether his actions actually caused more harm than good, however, during his later years he truly was a force for good.

The south african government were wrong for their actions doesn't make what mandela advocated when he went to prison.

Mandela had the opportunity to renounce violence in 1985, he refused, could he have been released 5 years earlier? Could he have ended the suffering of his people 5 years earlier? We will never know.

it was mandela who originally proposed the campaign of violence,

Proof?

comment by Reggie (U13390)
posted 6 minutes ago
good grief, it was mandela who originally proposed the campaign of violence, he set the wheels in motion for a stand off with the government that lasted for 27 years, NO ONE will ever know whether his actions actually caused more harm than good, however, during his later years he truly was a force for good.

The south african government were wrong for their actions doesn't make what mandela advocated when he went to prison.

Mandela had the opportunity to renounce violence in 1985, he refused, could he have been released 5 years earlier? Could he have ended the suffering of his people 5 years earlier? We will never know.


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What gave the afrikanners the right to do the things they did to South Africans? Were they supposed to lie down and take it?