comment by Igor...#gutted for George. (U1993)
posted 48 seconds ago
Stop watching Fox FFS cinci
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Ha mate, i honestly don't watch fox EVER, and CNN isn't much better, news agencies all have political agendas.

comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf (U11551)
posted 3 minutes ago
Out of interest, i have yet to see you criticise Hamas for killing civilians in terrorist attacks?

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I criticised it at the time, but the overwhelming majority of civilian deaths have been caused by Israeli munitions.
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I meant Israel as an aggressive/heavy handed state..

posted 29 seconds ago
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 (U1661)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Cinciwolf (U11551)
posted 1 minute ago
Out of interest, i have yet to see you criticise Hamas for killing civilians in terrorist attacks?
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Exactly. They all criticise Israel and don't give a sh..t about attacks on Israel by Hamas and other terrorist groups.

Part of the reason for the problem IMO.
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No doubt supporting ISIS as well, and crying over Afghanistan which has shown how incapable it is as a nation since being left alone again.

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Why are you pointing fingers at other conflicts in an attempt to shift the focus off Israel?

So cinci and livpool, neither of you answered, so let's try again...

why did the right wing party find a two state solution so unpalatable that they had to assassinate Rabin, their own president?

Why don't the Israeli government call a cease fire and impose the conditions of the 1993 peace plan?

^ if you feel you can't / don't want to answer, no point posting anymore.

comment by SAF_The_Legend 20 times #SupportMoyes (previously 7_The_Arab) (U5768)
posted 2 minutes ago
My point is that many people have been thrown off their land in the process of creating another state. Where were the Jewish supposed to go?
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What the hell do you mean where were the Jewish supposed to go?

Where were the Gypsies the G.ays or the many other groups the N.azi's targetted supposed to go?

Gay people have a long history of persecution why didn't we go and give them their own country?!

Although if Israel really did have to be given their own country why not make it from someone who actually participated in their persecution like the Germans for example?

I now for a fact that Britain would goto war with any group that tried to build a country on our territory!

If the UN had said it should be, even if the Brazilians had been killing these people in their millions Britain would flat out refuse to give them some of our land to just make a country on (I am of course referring to the British mainland and not some colony or something like Palestine was)
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Laughable. Gypsies aren't big enough to have a state and already have more comfortable settlements in part of Europe.. Gay an ethnicity or race? What you on about?

comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 5 minutes ago
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 (U1661)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Cinciwolf (U11551)
posted 1 minute ago
Out of interest, i have yet to see you criticise Hamas for killing civilians in terrorist attacks?
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Exactly. They all criticise Israel and don't give a sh..t about attacks on Israel by Hamas and other terrorist groups.

Part of the reason for the problem IMO.
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No doubt supporting ISIS as well, and crying over Afghanistan which has shown how incapable it is as a nation since being left alone again.

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Why are you pointing fingers at other conflicts in an attempt to shift the focus off Israel?

So cinci and livpool, neither of you answered, so let's try again...

why did the right wing party find a two state solution so unpalatable that they had to assassinate Rabin, their own president?

Why don't the Israeli government call a cease fire and impose the conditions of the 1993 peace plan?
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Well, I've given my answer and if you don't like it it's not my problem

You blame Israel for everything and never blame the other party.

CNN

Your question makes no sense.

Not one of us is defending Israels extremist actions back then, which is a huge difference to how you are defending and justifying Hamas actions.

Thats the difference here, you support extremism and think terrorism has its place.

Again comparing it to something that is completely non related. Apartheid South Africa was based on a false preset idea of superiority of certain race and would not let blacks have any rights regardless of anything.
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and Israel was founded on the basis that the Jews should have the land and the non-Jews should be thrown off the land for the Jews to have it.

Also much like Apartheid South Africa the victims in this and that situation have no power to correct the problem, the only ones who can solve the problem were the actual government in both situations. The only thing the Palestinians and Black South Africans can do is terrorism and try to gain international support.

Has anyone heard that Israel has accepted the latest humanitarian ceasefire with the qualifying statement that they will continue operations...

So basically the ceasefire means Hamas stops and Israel continues, or business as per usual.

Laughable. Gypsies aren't big enough to have a state and already have more comfortable settlements in part of Europe.. Gay an ethnicity or race? What you on about?
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Why should the Jews have been giving a state?

You said where were the Jews supposed to go.

Why did they need to go anywhere?

Many other groups throughout time have suffered persecution (thats why I brought up the g.ays and the Gyp.sies) and they didn't get their own state so why did the Jews deserve to be given a state, why did they have to go anywhere?

But most importantly why did the innocent Palestinians have to give away some of their land because a group got persecuted on a different continent?!

Also, you keep saying why not go back to the cease fire of 1993.

But what kind of ceasefire was it when Palestine and various arab nations will not recognize Israel and vow never to stop attacks.

and Israel was founded on the basis that the Jews should have the land and the non-Jews should be thrown off the land for the Jews to have it.

Also much like Apartheid South Africa the victims in this and that situation have no power to correct the problem, the only ones who can solve the problem were the actual government in both situations. The only thing the Palestinians and Black South Africans can do is terrorism and try to gain international support.

Has anyone heard that Israel has accepted the latest humanitarian ceasefire with the qualifying statement that they will continue operations...

So basically the ceasefire means Hamas stops and Israel continues, or business as per usual.
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That's not true. There was a high Jewish population in the lands that turned into Israel.

And during Apartheid there was only one state who had a preset idea to discriminate.
Israel want peace and would completely lift the blockade if Hamas accepted them and agreed no to attack them again. Israel only started when there was violence against its people. Apartheid started for no reason other than discrimination and racism.

Why should the Jews have been giving a state?

You said where were the Jews supposed to go.

Why did they need to go anywhere?

Many other groups throughout time have suffered persecution (thats why I brought up the g.ays and the Gyp.sies) and they didn't get their own state so why did the Jews deserve to be given a state, why did they have to go anywhere?

But most importantly why did the innocent Palestinians have to give away some of their land because a group got persecuted on a different continent?!
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Israel state was created because there was a high number of Jews in that land.

The Arabs wanted them out, so where were they supposed to go? Then you brought up something that is completely unrelated. You can never have a state for ga.ys as it's not an ethnicity. You keep bringing up issues that are unrelated.

Also how did Apartheid end? SA accepted the whites and forgot the past. Do you see Palestinians doing so?

That's not true. There was a high Jewish population in the lands that turned into Israel.
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Arabs were still the majority when Israel was founded, I am not sure what your point is here really though...

The Palestinians had their land taken and given to a Jewish state, I am not sure the numbers on each side change that?

It should also be noted that the vast vast majority of those Jews had been recent immigrants. A census by the ottoman Empire in 1878 had found 85.5% of the population to be Muslims, 9.5% to be Christians and 3.2% Jewish as well as 2.1% foreign born Jews...

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And during Apartheid there was only one state who had a preset idea to discriminate.
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I am not sure what you mean by this?

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Israel want peace and would completely lift the blockade if Hamas accepted them and agreed no to attack them again. Israel only started when there was violence against its people. Apartheid started for no reason other than discrimination and racism.
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Israel only wants peace on its own terms, that is the majority of the land, the majority of the resources and well they don't ever seem to stop with taking more and more land so it isn't out of the question they want Palestine gone altogether...

Hell if you had given Hitler everything he wanted he probably wouldn't have gone to war either it isn't exactly a point in his favour!

I am not sure what to reasons to give for the founding of Israel, discrimination and racism come pretty close to it though. Are you Jewish? yes, then welcome to our new homeland in Israel.

Are you Jewish? no, then go away, I don't care if your family have lived here for hundreds of years we are founding a Jewish state in your country because hundreds of miles away we suffered persecution at the hands of people completely unconnected to you...

I'd like to ask one question...

why is there a blockade on gaza from Egypt and Israel and from the sea?

Israel state was created because there was a high number of Jews in that land.

The Arabs wanted them out, so where were they supposed to go? Then you brought up something that is completely unrelated. You can never have a state for ga.ys as it's not an ethnicity. You keep bringing up issues that are unrelated.

Also how did Apartheid end? SA accepted the whites and forgot the past. Do you see Palestinians doing so?
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Israel was founded because there were a lot of Jews there?

WTF?!

Seriously honest this is getting stupid now, the reason there were so many Jews there is because they wanted to found/join the country of Israel...

The country of Israel was not founded because there happened to be a lot of Jews there! the jews went there for the country of Israel!

We even went over earlier in the thread how the Zionists were planning Israel for almost half a century before Israel was even founded... have you forgotten?

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Also how did Apartheid end? SA accepted the whites and forgot the past. Do you see Palestinians doing so?
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What....?

I am seriously starting to question your understanding of history, the Whites started to actually be fair towards the Blacks and started to give them some equality..

Apartheid did not end because the Blacks accepted the Whites and forgot the past, that actually makes it sound like the Blacks were at fault for Apartheid.

Can't be asked to read through previous 250 comments but look at this:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html


So to Cinci especially who claims it was the 3 teen kidnapping by Hamas which started the war, what's his excuse this time? Israel used this as a means to war, they lied (typical) to start a war.

If you support extremism and terrorism you are on the wrong side of right and wrong.

Nobody here supports the Israeli extremist faction but some of you try and justify the Hamas extremism and terrorism.

It is this attitude that has destroyed the world in recent years.

And how do you think the lone cells operate?

Under Hamas and other extremists guidance.

If you support extremism and terrorism you are on the wrong side of right and wrong.
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Like Mandela and his lot in South Africa...

We should have been supporting Apartheid and then we would be on the side of right!

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Nobody here supports the Israeli extremist faction but some of you try and justify the Hamas extremism and terrorism.
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The Israeli extremist faction is their government... by supporting the actions of their government you are supporting extremism.

What has, not destroyed the world, but really not helped is this absurd idea that terrorism = bad

Terrorism is simply a military tool used by the weak, it is not inherently bad or good.

If used by someone like Mandela in South Africa then it is simply someone using a military ends to achieve something we can all agree should happen (the end of apartheid)

I honestly don't know how you link the two cases.

Very different things completely.

And in either case, the extremist/terrorist actions would result in many civilian deaths.

That cannot ever be supported so why oh why do you continue to justify it with Hamas?

As before, nobody in their right mind justifies it with any extremist group or terror organization.

I honestly don't know how you link the two cases.

Very different things completely.
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I have done in other posts but not in my post directed at you.

You said "If you support extremism and terrorism you are on the wrong side of right and wrong."

Mandela was certainly a terrorist and probably pretty extreme....

Apartheid South Africa was a bit extreme but not terrorists.

So the only conclusion from your statement is that the South African Apartheid government was on the side of right and Mandela and his supporters were on the side of wrong. I cannot see another way to interpret it?

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And in either case, the extremist/terrorist actions would result in many civilian deaths.
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So do non-terrorist military actions. Terrorism can involve no civilian casualties, as can any other type of military action. It can only target civilians, as can any other type of military action.

Terrorism is as evil as wars, bombings ect. Terrorists are as evil as soldiers. Morally there is absolutely no difference between them.

If some soldier shoots me or if some terrorist shoots me, I don't really see the difference, i've still been shot.

Got the feeling you are an American so would 9/11 have been any less horrific if it had been carried out by a military? for me 9/11 was equally horrific whether it was carried out by soldiers, terrorists or wizards.

Sorry this ended up getting a bit long so I did it over 2 posts.

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That cannot ever be supported so why oh why do you continue to justify it with Hamas?
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Any military action can result in the death of civilians, so unless your a complete pacifist and do not approve of any military action then you to support military deaths.

I don't agree with a lot of what hamas says and does, that however does not make their cause any less just.

Same with Apartheid in South Africa, some of their methods and some of the things they said might have been distasteful but that certainly doesn't make their cause any less just!

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As before, nobody in their right mind justifies it with any extremist group or terror organization.
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The Israeli government is a pretty damn extreme organisation!

I am British living in the states.

I don't know the ins and outs of the south African issues so won't comment, but wasn't Mandela appealed by what Winnie was doing in his name and sold her down the river? Honest question.

Its only 60 years since the USA had its segregation issues, incredible as that may seem, not that its relevant here, just saying.

But regarding terrorism, it is used to strike fear into the civilian population, which has been Hamas and its satellite organizations intentions for many years.

I will not support it, as I don't support many things Israel does either, but I will never believe Israel does not want peace as it has shown in the past it will cooperate if the chance arises, just like with Egypt in 67.

We can go over this again and again, but its pointless, nothing is gonna change until both parties change attitudes on many issues.

*appalled not appealed