Nationalism is geographical,and where lines are drawn,and that makes is a farce,and an accident of birth,,,,,,,,,living on one side of a made up line,we cannot see.
___________________
Nationalism isn't determind by a line. Nationality is determined by a line.
Nationality and identity is also learned and to do with society and what type of society you want. It's not a secret that Scots are more left than the English. Now that starts as a line and birth, however it's also to do with society. Much like someone born into Saudi family will probably be Islamic and prefer stricter Islamic laws.
Now sure we could hope for a world with no boundaries, no nationalities, no national identity or customs or attitude, However we don't live in a world like this and whilst in the UK we have one group of people wanting a fair society and one wanting one for corporate interests we have to address this, as this is reality. Not a dream world.
Was about to say Castle, thought it was the USA...
Admittedly I don't know the SNP that well but I didn't think that their record in power showed them to be all that different from Labour or the Tories...
A lot of patriotic stuff about Scottish lions and Scots making the decisions for Scots and that but their record in parliament showed them to be similar to Labour and the Tories, at least that was the impression I got during the indy debates...
Admin
That was summer 2007,as we were in Portugal just after Maddie went missing............time flies.
The financial meltdown was caused by sub prime mortgage collapse in the UK
Sorry meant to write in the *USA not UK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I helped develop the intra bank trading protocols so they could sell subprime MBS instruments between banks. That was way back when Madeline mcann went missing.
________________________
The financial meltdown was caused by sub prime mortgage collapse in the USA largely due to Admin1
*fixed!
comment by Castle Black and it's 'True' King - R+L=J (U3573)
posted 5 minutes ago
Why someone thinks living inside the same historical lines as some tax dodging billionaire means they share more in common than someone who shares their financial situation but in a different country I will never know.
We have the same enemies and they are not the people that are exactly the same as us but on a different side of some invisible line, they are the people who use and abuse us, the ones who happily take our money and make themselves rich whilst refusing to give anything back.
_______________________
I totally agree with that and it's why I voted SNP, as the austerity lies were just that lies. The financial meltdown was caused by sub prime mortgage collapse in the UK which made banks bankrupt, which collapsed world markets, which collapsed UK banks which we bailed out causing debt.
Why Labour was blamed for this was laughable. Osborne has borrowed more money in 5 years than Labour did in 15 and yet it wasn't mentioned. Debt has trebled with austerity cuts and it wasn't mentioned.
Austerity causes debt to increase, but due to Murdoch the English believe the Torys are saving the economy and Labour caused it. Both of which are factual bullshieyte frankly.
We are doing nothing but subsidise Giant corps with Welfare money as they pay the minimum wage. Money that is then taken out of the country into offshore tax havens. People seem to believe this is good economics. The people are sheep and far too many ignorant, uneducated voters suits the Torys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the worst thing Labour did this campain was not try and defend their economic record. Cameron shouldn't have got away with blaming a global economic collapse on Labour. It's simply outrageous if you think about it. Not to forget that the Tories were arguing for more financial sector deregulation at the time so we would have been in even more trouble if they had been in power.
Also, this myth of Labour being economically irresponsible is just that, a myth. Government spending as a proportion GDP actually went down while they were in charge. Every single one of their budgets were back by the Tories who claimed they'd spend more if they were in power.
I think the level of misinformation that was spread around in the election campaign really makes me believe we need some serious controls on the media during election periods especially when you consider half of our media outlets are owned by one man. It's downright dangerous.
Saf and Castle
Were the SNP not known as tartan tories a while ago,before they went all leftist?
comment by Castle Black and it's 'True' King - R+L=J (U3573)
posted 8 minutes ago
It will only lead to English nationalism if they don't address it. It was madness to not create English assemblies. It should be done and would stop the rise.
The only thing that will save the Union is a federal UK. I would take that, as it would satisfy everyone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The next two main problems with Scotland becoming a federal state are coming up in this next term, promoted by the tories, and they are both potentially fatal for the UK, and they are the EU referendum and Trident.
A Federal Scotland will only be linked to the UK by foreign policy and defence, and both of these issues could end up forcing Scotland's hand to another referendum.
fack the SNP
i would like free prescriptions and uni fees to ffs
fack ugly nicola and her one sided national ideals
It's not a secret that Scots are more left than the English.
...................................................
Are there not also political differences between the highlands and the lowlands?
The City's and the countryside?
The rich and the poor?
As far as I can tell the poor whether they be Scottish or English share far more of the same interests with each other than they do the rich of each country.
Same with a farmer both sides of the border, or a factory worker.
Nationality is another way for them to divide us and play us off against each other for their own benefit.
You had Cameron proudly boasting that rich French people could escape French tax rises by coming to Britain and it was done publically, it wasn't something Cameron kept quiet.
Saf and Castle
Were the SNP not known as tartan tories a while ago,before they went all leftist?
________________________
Yes they were, but as the leadership and people changed, they changed with it to reflect the mood of the nation and that's all you can ask of politicians.
Reflecting the mood of the nation rather than Corps and people like Murdoch can only be a good thing and makes the vote for them even more trustworthy in my book.
"Well, not this English voter, but yes, it does seem to wind some up, for reasons I can't really fathom."
The tories, UKiP and most of the mainstream media, plus one Rupert Murdoch, have a hell of a lot to answer for over the course of this election. Media at its very worst.
I think the worst thing Labour did this campain was not try and defend their economic record. Cameron shouldn't have got away with blaming a global economic collapse on Labour. It's simply outrageous if you think about it. Not to forget that the Tories were arguing for more financial sector deregulation at the time so we would have been in even more trouble if they had been in power.
Also, this myth of Labour being economically irresponsible is just that, a myth. Government spending as a proportion GDP actually went down while they were in charge. Every single one of their budgets were back by the Tories who claimed they'd spend more if they were in power.
I think the level of misinformation that was spread around in the election campaign really makes me believe we need some serious controls on the media during election periods especially when you consider half of our media outlets are owned by one man. It's downright dangerous.
______________________
Totally agree with all of this.
comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 3 minutes ago
Saf and Castle
Were the SNP not known as tartan tories a while ago,before they went all leftist?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yea about 25-30 years ago when labour were a bit socialist
In politics you have to evolve and the SNP have done that
"Were the SNP not known as tartan tories a while ago,before they went all leftist?"
They were only known as that because they helped get rid of James Callaghan's tenure as PM. Nowadays Labour have been called Red Tories, but Tories have always been khunts
Castle
By lines on map,linked to nationalism,I literally mean being born on either side of the border,here or England/Scotland,and that is where nationality comes from,surely..............where we are born n bred.
It is a fantasy,with a no boundaries or national identities world,but I have decided to take a global view,rather than a parochial Ulster,UK,European outlook.
And what about tories,lib dem's or labour people in England or Scotland who want to look after ALL interests,be they in Glasgow,Leeds,Belfast or Swansea?
Why should Scottish people be best placed to hold power,over anyone else...........would the snp back an English National Party,for example?
Romantic Scottish nationalism,fuelled by defeat and victory in past battles,and the need to belong to a tribe,the scots,and being different from they English bassa's.Anyone but England..ABE
Funny thing is,many people in England do not have any feelings in relation to Scotland,as wessie expresses.
The joke is the SNP are hardly that left either. You would think Milliband was trying to start a new USSR and Sturgeon a new GDR the way Murdoch and his papers were banging on. Both wanted to carry on cuts stupidly and Sturgeon wanted to do it 3 years slower, but fluck me. She may as well said she was following Das Kapital the way the Murdoch controlled media went on about it.
I think the worst thing Labour did this campain was not try and defend their economic record. Cameron shouldn't have got away with blaming a global economic collapse on Labour. It's simply outrageous if you think about it. Not to forget that the Tories were arguing for more financial sector deregulation at the time so we would have been in even more trouble if they had been in power.
By the time milliband thought about defending labours deficit history it was all too late, it was like farting in a thunderstorm, no one listened and thought, whit you never done it of course you did, we all know you caused it
Why should Scottish people be best placed to hold power,over anyone else...........would the snp back an English National Party,for example?
_____________________
Why should the English be based placed to hold power over anyone?
As that's what we have election after election.
Rats
The Murdoch Sun backed the SNP,so what does that say?
You also say that the tories had a say in how the election went............well,they would,would they not,like the snp had a wee say in Scotland.One party state,man.
People can think for themselves,so media plays only a part in political opinion,imo.....if folk are daft,we need to address education in the UK.
As Scotland moves from liberal party,to tory to labour to nationalist,I wonder where this change of opinion came from?
Who changes these opinions?
comment by Laudrup (U12366)
posted 34 seconds ago
I think the worst thing Labour did this campain was not try and defend their economic record. Cameron shouldn't have got away with blaming a global economic collapse on Labour. It's simply outrageous if you think about it. Not to forget that the Tories were arguing for more financial sector deregulation at the time so we would have been in even more trouble if they had been in power.
By the time milliband thought about defending labours deficit history it was all too late, it was like farting in a thunderstorm, no one listened and thought, whit you never done it of course you did, we all know you caused it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Labour should have pushed the fact that the bill of human rights is getting re-written with a conservative slant. The benefits overhaul that removes the right of mental health patients to choose to reject often controversial treatment or get sanctions. Luckily lobotomy is out of fashion.
Labour dropped the ball quite incredibly.
"By lines on map,linked to nationalism,I literally mean being born on either side of the border,here or England/Scotland,and that is where nationality comes from,surely..............where we are born n bred.
It is a fantasy,with a no boundaries or national identities world,but I have decided to take a global view,rather than a parochial Ulster,UK,European outlook."
If you don't feel represented by the political powers of the country that you live in, and there is only one viable choice to change the status quo, you take it. This is why Sturgeon proved to be so popular in the debates, because people in England identify with a lot she is saying.
-------------------------------------------
"And what about tories,lib dem's or labour people in England or Scotland who want to look after ALL interests,be they in Glasgow,Leeds,Belfast or Swansea?"
I don't think there would be many people other than in the south west of England who would want UKiP in power, and that could very easily have happened.
--------------------------------------------------
"Why should Scottish people be best placed to hold power,over anyone else...........would the snp back an English National Party,for example?"
Scottish people, and the SNP, are looking after Scotland's interests. The Tories became almost extinct and are pretty much a toxic brand here and have been for a generation. Looks like Labour could be following them.
--------------------------------------------------
"Romantic Scottish nationalism,fuelled by defeat and victory in past battles,and the need to belong to a tribe,the scots,and being different from they English bassa's.Anyone but England..ABE
Funny thing is,many people in England do not have any feelings in relation to Scotland,as wessie expresses."
I really don't think romantic nationalism has had anything to do with either the referendum or this election. Rupert Murdoch and Westminster parties have painted it that way.
Castle
Not long ago,Scotland voted labour into power,with Scots in charge,alongside English and Welsh labour voters.................they English were only part of that labour govt.
It is only because many Scots are a combination of anti-tory and anti-English,as the snp only got 6 seat last time,but English tory boys get the aul hackles up,lol.
To me voting SNP wasn't about being nationalistic. It was about trying to stop global corps and billionaires taking all of the peoples wealth and turning us into nothing more than slaves via debt with no rights. It was about creating a fairer society that cares about people rather than some Nazzzi Hitler state that picks on the weak and vulnerable.
Hundreds of people have committed suicide under the Tory's due to Sickness cuts and Atos etc.
Yet it only cost every worker £10 per year for our benefit system.
It's called caring about others and not being a selfish whank. It called wanting equality and not creating a country which benefits Murdoch and his ilk with franking and slavery for the benefit for the few.
Now if wanting this makes me a bad person, then I am.
Sign in if you want to comment
SNP got half UKIP vote
Page 3 of 10
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posted on 8/5/15
Nationalism is geographical,and where lines are drawn,and that makes is a farce,and an accident of birth,,,,,,,,,living on one side of a made up line,we cannot see.
___________________
Nationalism isn't determind by a line. Nationality is determined by a line.
Nationality and identity is also learned and to do with society and what type of society you want. It's not a secret that Scots are more left than the English. Now that starts as a line and birth, however it's also to do with society. Much like someone born into Saudi family will probably be Islamic and prefer stricter Islamic laws.
Now sure we could hope for a world with no boundaries, no nationalities, no national identity or customs or attitude, However we don't live in a world like this and whilst in the UK we have one group of people wanting a fair society and one wanting one for corporate interests we have to address this, as this is reality. Not a dream world.
posted on 8/5/15
Was about to say Castle, thought it was the USA...
Admittedly I don't know the SNP that well but I didn't think that their record in power showed them to be all that different from Labour or the Tories...
A lot of patriotic stuff about Scottish lions and Scots making the decisions for Scots and that but their record in parliament showed them to be similar to Labour and the Tories, at least that was the impression I got during the indy debates...
posted on 8/5/15
Admin
That was summer 2007,as we were in Portugal just after Maddie went missing............time flies.
posted on 8/5/15
The financial meltdown was caused by sub prime mortgage collapse in the UK
Sorry meant to write in the *USA not UK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I helped develop the intra bank trading protocols so they could sell subprime MBS instruments between banks. That was way back when Madeline mcann went missing.
________________________
The financial meltdown was caused by sub prime mortgage collapse in the USA largely due to Admin1
*fixed!
posted on 8/5/15
comment by Castle Black and it's 'True' King - R+L=J (U3573)
posted 5 minutes ago
Why someone thinks living inside the same historical lines as some tax dodging billionaire means they share more in common than someone who shares their financial situation but in a different country I will never know.
We have the same enemies and they are not the people that are exactly the same as us but on a different side of some invisible line, they are the people who use and abuse us, the ones who happily take our money and make themselves rich whilst refusing to give anything back.
_______________________
I totally agree with that and it's why I voted SNP, as the austerity lies were just that lies. The financial meltdown was caused by sub prime mortgage collapse in the UK which made banks bankrupt, which collapsed world markets, which collapsed UK banks which we bailed out causing debt.
Why Labour was blamed for this was laughable. Osborne has borrowed more money in 5 years than Labour did in 15 and yet it wasn't mentioned. Debt has trebled with austerity cuts and it wasn't mentioned.
Austerity causes debt to increase, but due to Murdoch the English believe the Torys are saving the economy and Labour caused it. Both of which are factual bullshieyte frankly.
We are doing nothing but subsidise Giant corps with Welfare money as they pay the minimum wage. Money that is then taken out of the country into offshore tax havens. People seem to believe this is good economics. The people are sheep and far too many ignorant, uneducated voters suits the Torys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the worst thing Labour did this campain was not try and defend their economic record. Cameron shouldn't have got away with blaming a global economic collapse on Labour. It's simply outrageous if you think about it. Not to forget that the Tories were arguing for more financial sector deregulation at the time so we would have been in even more trouble if they had been in power.
Also, this myth of Labour being economically irresponsible is just that, a myth. Government spending as a proportion GDP actually went down while they were in charge. Every single one of their budgets were back by the Tories who claimed they'd spend more if they were in power.
I think the level of misinformation that was spread around in the election campaign really makes me believe we need some serious controls on the media during election periods especially when you consider half of our media outlets are owned by one man. It's downright dangerous.
posted on 8/5/15
Saf and Castle
Were the SNP not known as tartan tories a while ago,before they went all leftist?
posted on 8/5/15
comment by Castle Black and it's 'True' King - R+L=J (U3573)
posted 8 minutes ago
It will only lead to English nationalism if they don't address it. It was madness to not create English assemblies. It should be done and would stop the rise.
The only thing that will save the Union is a federal UK. I would take that, as it would satisfy everyone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The next two main problems with Scotland becoming a federal state are coming up in this next term, promoted by the tories, and they are both potentially fatal for the UK, and they are the EU referendum and Trident.
A Federal Scotland will only be linked to the UK by foreign policy and defence, and both of these issues could end up forcing Scotland's hand to another referendum.
posted on 8/5/15
fack the SNP
i would like free prescriptions and uni fees to ffs
fack ugly nicola and her one sided national ideals
posted on 8/5/15
It's not a secret that Scots are more left than the English.
...................................................
Are there not also political differences between the highlands and the lowlands?
The City's and the countryside?
The rich and the poor?
As far as I can tell the poor whether they be Scottish or English share far more of the same interests with each other than they do the rich of each country.
Same with a farmer both sides of the border, or a factory worker.
Nationality is another way for them to divide us and play us off against each other for their own benefit.
You had Cameron proudly boasting that rich French people could escape French tax rises by coming to Britain and it was done publically, it wasn't something Cameron kept quiet.
posted on 8/5/15
Saf and Castle
Were the SNP not known as tartan tories a while ago,before they went all leftist?
________________________
Yes they were, but as the leadership and people changed, they changed with it to reflect the mood of the nation and that's all you can ask of politicians.
Reflecting the mood of the nation rather than Corps and people like Murdoch can only be a good thing and makes the vote for them even more trustworthy in my book.
posted on 8/5/15
"Well, not this English voter, but yes, it does seem to wind some up, for reasons I can't really fathom."
The tories, UKiP and most of the mainstream media, plus one Rupert Murdoch, have a hell of a lot to answer for over the course of this election. Media at its very worst.
posted on 8/5/15
I think the worst thing Labour did this campain was not try and defend their economic record. Cameron shouldn't have got away with blaming a global economic collapse on Labour. It's simply outrageous if you think about it. Not to forget that the Tories were arguing for more financial sector deregulation at the time so we would have been in even more trouble if they had been in power.
Also, this myth of Labour being economically irresponsible is just that, a myth. Government spending as a proportion GDP actually went down while they were in charge. Every single one of their budgets were back by the Tories who claimed they'd spend more if they were in power.
I think the level of misinformation that was spread around in the election campaign really makes me believe we need some serious controls on the media during election periods especially when you consider half of our media outlets are owned by one man. It's downright dangerous.
______________________
Totally agree with all of this.
posted on 8/5/15
comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 3 minutes ago
Saf and Castle
Were the SNP not known as tartan tories a while ago,before they went all leftist?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yea about 25-30 years ago when labour were a bit socialist
In politics you have to evolve and the SNP have done that
posted on 8/5/15
"Were the SNP not known as tartan tories a while ago,before they went all leftist?"
They were only known as that because they helped get rid of James Callaghan's tenure as PM. Nowadays Labour have been called Red Tories, but Tories have always been khunts
posted on 8/5/15
Castle
By lines on map,linked to nationalism,I literally mean being born on either side of the border,here or England/Scotland,and that is where nationality comes from,surely..............where we are born n bred.
It is a fantasy,with a no boundaries or national identities world,but I have decided to take a global view,rather than a parochial Ulster,UK,European outlook.
And what about tories,lib dem's or labour people in England or Scotland who want to look after ALL interests,be they in Glasgow,Leeds,Belfast or Swansea?
Why should Scottish people be best placed to hold power,over anyone else...........would the snp back an English National Party,for example?
Romantic Scottish nationalism,fuelled by defeat and victory in past battles,and the need to belong to a tribe,the scots,and being different from they English bassa's.Anyone but England..ABE
Funny thing is,many people in England do not have any feelings in relation to Scotland,as wessie expresses.
posted on 8/5/15
The joke is the SNP are hardly that left either. You would think Milliband was trying to start a new USSR and Sturgeon a new GDR the way Murdoch and his papers were banging on. Both wanted to carry on cuts stupidly and Sturgeon wanted to do it 3 years slower, but fluck me. She may as well said she was following Das Kapital the way the Murdoch controlled media went on about it.
posted on 8/5/15
I think the worst thing Labour did this campain was not try and defend their economic record. Cameron shouldn't have got away with blaming a global economic collapse on Labour. It's simply outrageous if you think about it. Not to forget that the Tories were arguing for more financial sector deregulation at the time so we would have been in even more trouble if they had been in power.
By the time milliband thought about defending labours deficit history it was all too late, it was like farting in a thunderstorm, no one listened and thought, whit you never done it of course you did, we all know you caused it
posted on 8/5/15
Why should Scottish people be best placed to hold power,over anyone else...........would the snp back an English National Party,for example?
_____________________
Why should the English be based placed to hold power over anyone?
As that's what we have election after election.
posted on 8/5/15
*best placed.
posted on 8/5/15
Rats
The Murdoch Sun backed the SNP,so what does that say?
You also say that the tories had a say in how the election went............well,they would,would they not,like the snp had a wee say in Scotland.One party state,man.
People can think for themselves,so media plays only a part in political opinion,imo.....if folk are daft,we need to address education in the UK.
As Scotland moves from liberal party,to tory to labour to nationalist,I wonder where this change of opinion came from?
Who changes these opinions?
posted on 8/5/15
comment by Laudrup (U12366)
posted 34 seconds ago
I think the worst thing Labour did this campain was not try and defend their economic record. Cameron shouldn't have got away with blaming a global economic collapse on Labour. It's simply outrageous if you think about it. Not to forget that the Tories were arguing for more financial sector deregulation at the time so we would have been in even more trouble if they had been in power.
By the time milliband thought about defending labours deficit history it was all too late, it was like farting in a thunderstorm, no one listened and thought, whit you never done it of course you did, we all know you caused it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Labour should have pushed the fact that the bill of human rights is getting re-written with a conservative slant. The benefits overhaul that removes the right of mental health patients to choose to reject often controversial treatment or get sanctions. Luckily lobotomy is out of fashion.
Labour dropped the ball quite incredibly.
posted on 8/5/15
"By lines on map,linked to nationalism,I literally mean being born on either side of the border,here or England/Scotland,and that is where nationality comes from,surely..............where we are born n bred.
It is a fantasy,with a no boundaries or national identities world,but I have decided to take a global view,rather than a parochial Ulster,UK,European outlook."
If you don't feel represented by the political powers of the country that you live in, and there is only one viable choice to change the status quo, you take it. This is why Sturgeon proved to be so popular in the debates, because people in England identify with a lot she is saying.
-------------------------------------------
"And what about tories,lib dem's or labour people in England or Scotland who want to look after ALL interests,be they in Glasgow,Leeds,Belfast or Swansea?"
I don't think there would be many people other than in the south west of England who would want UKiP in power, and that could very easily have happened.
--------------------------------------------------
"Why should Scottish people be best placed to hold power,over anyone else...........would the snp back an English National Party,for example?"
Scottish people, and the SNP, are looking after Scotland's interests. The Tories became almost extinct and are pretty much a toxic brand here and have been for a generation. Looks like Labour could be following them.
--------------------------------------------------
"Romantic Scottish nationalism,fuelled by defeat and victory in past battles,and the need to belong to a tribe,the scots,and being different from they English bassa's.Anyone but England..ABE
Funny thing is,many people in England do not have any feelings in relation to Scotland,as wessie expresses."
I really don't think romantic nationalism has had anything to do with either the referendum or this election. Rupert Murdoch and Westminster parties have painted it that way.
posted on 8/5/15
posted on 8/5/15
Castle
Not long ago,Scotland voted labour into power,with Scots in charge,alongside English and Welsh labour voters.................they English were only part of that labour govt.
It is only because many Scots are a combination of anti-tory and anti-English,as the snp only got 6 seat last time,but English tory boys get the aul hackles up,lol.
posted on 8/5/15
To me voting SNP wasn't about being nationalistic. It was about trying to stop global corps and billionaires taking all of the peoples wealth and turning us into nothing more than slaves via debt with no rights. It was about creating a fairer society that cares about people rather than some Nazzzi Hitler state that picks on the weak and vulnerable.
Hundreds of people have committed suicide under the Tory's due to Sickness cuts and Atos etc.
Yet it only cost every worker £10 per year for our benefit system.
It's called caring about others and not being a selfish whank. It called wanting equality and not creating a country which benefits Murdoch and his ilk with franking and slavery for the benefit for the few.
Now if wanting this makes me a bad person, then I am.
Page 3 of 10
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10